Oud caravan n°2

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Looking forward to smelling the new version, it all sounds good to me. I hope everyone had a good holiday if you had one, and a happy new year to all.

I agree with Mumsy, the notes sound very appealing. It's also nice to see that there will be a blend of Ouds versus just one type. Salaam, if I may ask, is the Laos Oud you're using leathery? I ask because the ones I've tried from Laos have been really leathery but also well rounded.

Very exciting, I'm looking forward to trying it. Thanks Salaam.

Exciting News...I have just received the beautifully wrapped package from profumo for Oud Caravan 2.0. Thank you very much Profumo. Over the next day or two I will be sending them out to the previous testers. Happy new year and wonderful caravan :-)

All Packages went out today by mail, so everyone should be getting their bottle in a few days. Mean while I got busy trying Oud Caravan version 2.0 yesterday and this evening, so in case you don't want to prejudiced your judgement you should stop reading now because here is my first Impression :-) and a disclaimer, this is "First"Impression so I reserve the right to change and add to my observations which I will do :-):

"When I tried it last night I instantly thought to myself "Ahha, so he was able to get rid of those animalic/Barnyard notes". I felt it being lighter than Caravan 1.0. This evening now that I am paying attention to it, the opening notes are strong white pepper-y, minty with a bit of vertiver or osmanthus like and other Green notes and roasted sesame. but green overall. It is quite a departure from the original perfume which I have very little left of it and I keep comparing the two. This one I feel is a lot spicier and less Oud-Y. Actually where is The Oud? I am sure it's there but unfortunately I feel that the oud "presence" has been diminished to a point where i am having a hard time identifying this as a Oud derived mix. There is more plant based musk and less or non of the notes one associate with either Laoisian Oud or Bengali. There is no sharp fecal notes (Lao) or sweet woodiness or smoking notes (Bengali). There is some wet leather scent (sweet sweat?) in the Drydown phase which is just taking place. This a quite conversation, intimate perfume (as I would like to say Elevator-Safe). There is no silage with this perfume; I have it on both arms and I can't smell it unless I raise my arm to my nose.

This perfume has decidedly moved into the lighter/spiritual level from the original version, but in doing so I feel it has lost it's tethering, it's "raison d'etre". IMHO, I feel that the choice of the Oud is of Paramount important and currently it's difficult to discern. I am going to have to try it again in the day time as I have tried it now at night and the reaction could be very different. Stay Tuned.

I stand corrected for only you, Profumo actually knows what has gone in the mix. Have you substituted the Bengali Oud with the laos oud or you just added the Laos to the Bengali? I am wondering if it is informative to list the ingredients in Oud Caravan 2 or do you think that by doing so it will influence what and how people perceive the perfume?

Profumo,

I don't want to get off topic but I found your last post to be very interesting. Regarding using synthetics along with naturals, I like the way perfumes where made in the mid to late 1800's and early 1900's where the perfumer would use a few synthetic molecules to make a perfume but it was layered with lots of naturals (for example synthetic coumarin to make a Fougere mixed with a hefty dose of natural lavender, civet, wood, etc.). The naturals made these perfumes absolutely beautiful and the synthetics helped give them a little extra.

Thank you for giving us your brief thoughts on perfume construction. I'm eagerly awaiting my chance to smell the latest version of Oud Caravan. I will post my initial thoughts as soon as I get it.

I am really looking forward to smelling this. I really agree on the use of naturals as a strong skeleton and in fact prefer to seek naturals for the flesh which contain the molecules that the synthetics have often been brought in to do. As a collector of old scents, my nose is very accustomed to smelling vintage perfumes as well as all natural ingredients. I find when I smell the new synthetic scents my nose is too sensitive to the sharp chemicals and they have a tendency to smell like fly spray to me. This connection to the natural world is precisely why I like the Profumo perfumes that I have smelled so far.

I just received my bottle of Oud Caravan from Masstika, and will share my first impressions. I have not had the chance to try Oud Caravan 1.0, so I will not be able to share any comparative impressions.

First of all, I want to applaud Profumo's efforts in taking on the courageous endeavor of creating a perfume that revolves around one of the most timeless, ancient, and extraordinary sacred scents in the world. This is no easy task, and in my first smell of Oud Caravan, the seriousness of the perfumer is completely evident.

This is no amateurish blend. I smell the maturity of Profumo's hands and his refined olfactory sense, and everything he has invested in creating this blend. My first impression is, "Wow, this is actually quite Oud-y!" The Oudiness of the perfume remains striking to me for quite a while. I was half-expecting something significantly more diluted, but the degree of Oud notes I am picking up on are quite nice. When taking the bottle out of its bubble wrap, I came across an astonishing animalic note, which had me excited. However, the animalic note was not as distinctly detectable to me when I put on the perfume, or smelled it from the bottle. Rather, the Oud notes I picked up on were more classically Oudy, that sort of wet jungly smell that is not as enthusiastic as Indian Oud. Definitely picking up on the Bengali Oud here. And yet, the Laotian Oud is lurking back there, and I am now able to smell the animalic undertones permeating the perfume.

As the perfume drys down, I pick up on a very sandalwoody fragrance, which begins to overpower the delectable Oud notes in the perfume. Soon, the perfume opens into a new character, with the Oud notes receding more.

Caravan is a very airy perfume, a good match for the right day. It reminds me of Ensar's Oud Royale, which exhibits the same kind of Oudy note that is present in Caravan. Oud Royale is also quite airy, and also has a damp character. But it is far more colorful and complex, given that it is a pure Oud oil. But it is the Oud that comes to mind when I am wearing Caravan. It fits into that more subtle and airy genre of oils. It leaves me desirous of more body and sillage, but is pleasant and balanced enough to also leave me content with its nature.

Excellent work, Profumo. I would be interested in seeing more body, stronger barnyard notes, and more power in the fragrance. But that is altogether a description of a character that is the opposite of Oud Caravan! Caravan does stand its own ground as a beautifully ethereal, peaceful, and elegantly subtle Oud perfume. Definitely something I would keep in my collection and see worthy as putting on from time to time.

Oud Caravan 2 was quite a surprise to me. It smells “higher” than the first version- less sharply herbal, more floral, more oud-y! I don’t feel as though the notes in Oud Caravan 1 have disappeared, but that they are more integrated into the oud scent. In fact, this version has made me understand what you mean by “oud, but better than oud”. The herbal and floral notes don’t sit on top of the oud or underneath it- they have almost entirely fused with it. It is closer to smelling an orchestra than to being aware of the individual musicians.

Lao ouds are usually pretty intense and fecal. I wouldn’t describe Oud Caravan 2 that way at all- it retains the ‘oomph’ and leatheriness of Laotian oils but softened- more like suede than leather. The perfume smells sweet and thick, yet the “minty” note adds an etherealness that keeps the oil flying. I’m going to guess gardenia or lotus is it’s source? I like this elevated and contrasting aspect of the oil. Oud Caravan I smelled more “floeuve-y” – more hay, tobacco and treacle, and it also smelled sharper. Oud Caravan 2 smells lighter and more delicate- less vanillic, less liquor-y and less “amber-y”. I am embarrassed to say that although I smell strong woods I don’t smell a strong sandalwood note ☹ The woods seem very smooth and sweet, though. Maybe that's sandalwood's contribution? I wonder if you’ve added cedar to the blend. You mention there’s a smoke note. I’m not a fan of “smoked” ouds so I like the fact that the smokiness is in the background and isn’t acrid, which is a problem I find in some distilled oils.

If I could have 2 wishes, Profumo, they would be that the perfume contained a dark pruple plum note, since I love the combination of plums and leather that I’ve smelled in some Hindi ouds, and that the top airy note would lose some of its mintiness. However I personally believe in allowing an artist to follow his own inspiration so I am whispering this with some hesitancy and many misgivings ☺

Thank you for allowing us to witnesses (is there a nasal equivalent?) and participate in your creative process! It has given me some small idea into how a perfume evolves. After smelling the samples you so generously donate it will be most interesting for me to see when you are satisfied with the blend and think you have attained your goal. Also getting vials with the individual essences will be extremely instructive. My thanks for the samples, for listening to our suggestions, and for the education we are getting along the way!

Is version 2 available yet from The Perfumed Court? And do the same rules apply (i.e. that we have to order only samples from natural perfumers?)

As I sit with Oud Caravan 2 some more, I encounter a kind of citrusy note that begins to conceal the Oudy notes a bit, and it distracts me from the Oud heart of the perfume. I wonder what this is, and if it could be toned down?

My girlfriend has really taken to the perfume.

Salaam,

I received my package this weekend and am finally now sitting down and analyzing the new version of Oud Caravan. My first reaction was that this version is much lighter than the first. It doesn't have as much of the sweet, heavy, animalic top note as the first version did, but it does have a certain softness and lightness that is very appealing. I also find this version to have more sillage. Overall it does smell more completed, with subtle floral notes and freshness, though I have to admit I do miss some of the wildness and denseness the first version had. I'll report more later.

My first impression of the very generous portion of Oud Caravan 2 sample is that it is strikingly similar to Oud Caravan 1. At first I thought it was a mistake and that the bottle had been mislabelled. The very strong barnyard smell of the Bengali Oud was still there and was THE dominant component, covering everything else, and outlasting everything else by hours and hours. So all my same comments as for Oud Caravan 1 still apply. It does not appear to me that the kind of Oud oil being used has changed. Maybe Profumo used a little bit less.

To be able to detect the difference I had to put both Oud 1 and Oud 2 on smelling strips and very carefully compare them. As soon as I smelled either one, my olfactory receptors were totally overwhelmed by the powerful Oud molecules and then the second one was very difficult to compare. Ultimately it became obvious that Oud 2 is a bit more mild than Oud 1, but to my nose not by very much. Perhaps I am overly sensitive to the particular Oud that Profumo is using in this blend.

Sorry to say, but I don't really like that barnyard quality. I realize that many do, but I find it very dominant and cloying, distracting from everything else in the mix.

Around Vancouver here, we have a kind of garden compost that is provided free by the city and it is made primarily of rotted wood. It appears around the city in the summer in big dark black mounds where landscaping is needed. This is what the Bengali Oud smells like to me. So my imagery is not of camels and a caravan, but of a landscape project in a Vancouver city park, or in front of a new house, with fresh new compost in the heat on a sunny day. Actually, this is a good image, but probably not what you are after. I even went to the trouble one summer day to grab a handful of the aromatic Vancouver compost and make a tincture in 95% ethanol to see if I could create a kind of Canadian Oud. I got something, but it's nowhere near as strong as real Oud. Probably I'd have to distill it to get something as powerful.

So for now, my suggestion is to reduce the proportion of Oud in Oud Caravan to even lower levels. I feel that this particular Bengali Oud ingredient is so powerful that it requires a great deal of respect. To let it dominate so much makes it feel more like one of those rings with one GIANT heavy stone in the middle surrounded by smaller ones. The middle stone is so big that it stands out above the hand, and even hides the jewels surrounding it. It is as big as two finger widths. So huge, it overpowers everything, and gets in the way. Yes, it is something to marvel at, but also something that is uncomfortable on the hand. That's how the Oud feels in Oud Caravan. I wish it was far more subtle, so that it became a component of a whole, rather than dominating the whole. I guess I am looking for a smaller jewel that sparkles together with its supporting gems.

The one thing I will say about Oud Caravan is that it gets better--on clothes--after a day or two. Then a sweeter quality of the Oud begins to come out. If I put it on the back of my hand and it gets onto my coat jacket cuff, then for days after that I always smell it when I put on that particular jacket. After about 3 days it becomes very nice. I wish it could start like this, though. I wonder if you diluted the Oud in the mix by 10 or more likely 100 times, what Oud Caravan would smell like then? That is something I would definitely like to try.

I've continued trying out Oud Caravan No. 2. Though of course I still think it is a very nice perfume, I still like Oud Caravan No. 1 more. Maybe because I'm a sucker for rich, sweet, musky smells and I feel No. 1 offers that a little more (Oud Caravan 2 smells cleaner to my nose). I also let my roommate smell both from the bottle and she also liked the first one better.

Don't get me wrong, No. 2 does have certain qualities that I like about it and that makes it a bit more superior in construction than No. 1. For one, it does have more of an ethereal quality that continues all the way to the dry down and makes the dry down soft and elegant. It also offers more of the full ring quality you are looking for (with the ruby and diamonds and such) as oppose to just the intense ruby like No. 1, but the overall deep, sweet scent of Oud Caravan No. 1 is still more appealing to my nose.

Profumo, I have been using Oud Caravan intermittently and been documenting my observations to share with the group later and sometimes I just put it on and loose myself in it as oppose to being analytic. I would like to expand the conversation though a bit beyond the Perfume and it's notes to the experiment itself. One of the questions that popped in my mind when we started and I was also asked about it later on by other members is how do you reconcile an artistic endeavor/inspiration such as creating a fragrance and the feed back you are getting. For example I don't think a painter or a musician can follow the same protocol. I guess the question is how much of the feed back makes it's way into the creation. The second question is how can you evaluate the responses if we remain anonymous with different backgrounds and orientation and isn't what we are doing is similar in many ways to what the big perfume houses call "Focus Groups" ?
Lastly and just out of curiousness have you considered Borneo Oud. It would have seemed a natural candidate with it's lack of fecal/Barnyard notes , fruity notes and it's accessibility to western noses? thank you for your kindness.

Here are a few more observations about Oud Caravan 2, now that I have tried it for another day or two. It's growing on me. I like it better than Oud Caravan 1, though #1 seems to last longer. In the dry down #2 is more pleasing, with clear ringing notes above the barnyard background. It's not quite citrus, but there's a sweetness I like.

{QUOTE}how do you reconcile an artistic endeavor/inspiration such as creating a fragrance and the feed back you are getting. For example I don't think a painter or a musician can follow the same protocol.{Quote}

An interesting question, and one I do think is answerable in any artistic endeavour. A graphic designer, painter or musician can change their original idea to a new slant if the process has obtained a comment from another artist during its creation. Would a Turner painting look as it does if it weren't for the influence of Claude Lorrain? Would any art or music look and sound as it does without the prevailing influences around at the time with each artist creating, and having influence over the next?

I like to think that perfumery is directly like an olfactory painting. In the same vein as an impressionistic or classic master or abstract evocation of a 'picture' or 'mood'. Thereby quite naturally influenceable by any prevailing tastes. This project and all the opinions and perfumers noses within it, are like a 'movement' and a beautiful thing for its integrated artistic flexibility.

I believe that the true artist must recognize a need in the public to achieve maximal output. I know plenty of artists as well who could care less what anyone thinks and wish to go to their grave undiscovered. i work with a lot of painters and give those who wish to here me endless input. Also, gallery owners and critics make studio visits so there is an ongoing exchange of views on the artist's work. I have trained some of my artist friends to listen more to what others feel about their work and it has helped them to blossom incredibly.

I've been thinking a lot about Oud Caravan 2, but find myself wanting to postpone commenting on it because I had a similar response to bshell. My nose is apparently a very blunt instrument, because I find it very difficult to differentiate between the two versions, other than that Oud Caravan 2 smells lighter to me. It's almost like a more translucent version of the original. I am not getting the smoky notes that you talk about Salaam; if anything, I am getting a touch of a green woodiness at the start of Oud Caravan 2 that I rather like, but it is still a bit too ethereal for me to really grasp it ... I feel like sometimes I'm just imagining it, if that makes any sense. I guess the other difference between the two is that Oud Caravan 1 actually had a bit of honeycomb-like warmth and sweetness in its base that I didn't notice until I wore it in a side-by-side (wrist-to-wrist) comparison with Oud Carvan 2, which seems to have a lighter base.

Unlike bshell, though, I don't find either version too barnyard-like at all; but then, I really like animalic scents.

At this juncture, I would have to say that I prefer Oud Caravan 1. I'd also have to say that I'm not sure how helpful I can be in commenting on your fragrance because my idea of the ultimate oud fragrance is one in which the various characteristics of oud are sort of drawn out and accentuated; so I have in mind a richer, deeper fragrance that embraces, for instance, the sort of mentholated greeness I experience at the start of wearing an oud oil, and more development of its woody character, and then those sweeter, balsamic tones that come through when it has thoroughly been heated by my skin. I need to get this preconception out of my head; I believe you're going in a more meditative direction with Oud Caravan, and if that's so, then you are very much achieving that, and I simply need to readjust my thinking on this scent.

I liked second iteration of the scent more than the first batch. The overall composition has more synergy and the individual components are more in tune with each other. I think the evolution of Oud Caravan is going in the right direction, the scent, while unmistakably oud, is enhanced by the supporting notes, particularly in the opening which is now friendlier, more laid back and elegant. I would second Bluemoon's comment about plum note being a desirable addition, that particular deep and dark sweetness works amazingly well with some Indian and Cambodian ouds so it should feel at home in Oud Caravan and smooth out some rough edges in the mid state of the scent's development. As for the base, I'd prefer to see a stronger balsamic woodiness which to me is one of the most attractive facets of a good oud.

I am also wondering if a hint of an incency, fruity note (for example the "guava" sometimes found in Cambodian ouds) may be incorporated in OC? It's usually found in the opening and is neither sweet, incency, tangy or smoky per se but is somehow a combination of all of these. Particularly the first sniff of this note is magic, it makes me take deep breaths and I can't get enough of that aroma... This note can be seen in Oumentary's original KSSS and Oriscent's new Encens d'Angkor. Since the first impression is often the most lasting one, this note can anchor the wearer's attention right from the start and be the nostalgic longing that makes us go back to a particular scent, just to experience that initial "high"... I am not a perfumer and have no idea whether this is something that can be done but I thought I'd mention it anyway in hopes that any suggestion may be of some help.

Sorry, double post.

Someone I shared my sample with suggested the floral note is champaca :-) I think he might be right :-)

The OC2 high topnote, that takes on an almost minty character here, reminds me of Borneo oils. I assume the bandaid smell may have its source in the Bengali oud. The slightly "thick", vanillic and fruity components point in the Cambodi/Thai direction. That OC2 has aspects of ouds from different regions but doesn't strictly resemble any of them is where, for me, the challenge comes in. It is easy for my imagination to try to push the scent into one of the familiar archetypes; it is more of an adjustment to accept it as a new "creation" and to try to analyze it free of preconceptions of what an oud "should" smell like. To me the idea of making an oud that smells better than oud implies exaggerating the pleasant notes, hiding or converting the "bad" ones, and adding new elements that would add to the beauty of the composition. Like Igor, I, too am partial to the "guava" note. I'm not keen on the phenol smell so that's one I'd aim to mask.

It's not yet clear to me what "character" or "style" this oud conveys. Should the perfumer ask the "public" to make this determination, and merely be the interpreter of the public's vision? What if each member of the public wants something different? Or should the artist (I understand why you call perfumers craftsmen; maybe great craftsman are artists) seek to dissolve our preconceptions and present us with a new, unexpected and hopefully exciting vision? Perhaps I have a romantic and misguided notion that artists are visionaries- that they are able to see things we have not yet opened our eyes to; or they are able to show us familiar things in a new light- a light that makes us more appreciative and better able to understand the world around us. I believe to be able to have this vision does require humility, however to me that's different than asking for public input/involvement in the creative process. Also, in reference to what davido22 said, there's a difference between great art and art that's a commercial success.

Profumo- thanks for your thoughtful reply. You’ve given me a lot to think about.

“The project consists in shaping a determinate scent, Oud, letting the feedback of the general public be the main source of inspiration…..…….the feedback of the public makes me understand if I am threading the right path to reach the goal.”
I will take this opportunity to reiterate my dislike of the bandaid scent. I would add some jam-y, fig-y, plum-y, “guava”-like notes, especially because the “general public” seems to be on a fruity/floral binge, and because the only ouds I’ve worn that have elicited compliments are Cambodian oils, which smell more like aged fruitcakes than medicine cabinets or barnyards. Many ouds also have a “cola” note. The inclusion of a similar note would magnify the oudiness of the scent without being offensive. I would also include wood notes that are soft, clean and on the sweet side, since the drydown of ouds often incorporate these elements.

"Oud is not a perfume for all. It is not easy to wear it, you must have a lion’s heart. "
I, personally, love the wild aspect of oud. For me an oud without power would be like an opera singer who couldn’t sing above a whisper.

"I am only a perfumer, I compose scents for the people, I cannot compose them without them, now and before this project. Perfumes are intended for the others, this is why others are always part of the process of composing perfumes. "
My guess is that basenoters are not representative of the general public, and that people who wear oud every day are not representative of basenoters.

"I would say further that in perfumery generally and also for us indie perfumers, success is much more in the ability to market the perfumes than in the goodness of the perfume itself. 
"
Perhaps if the public were exposed to more great perfumes their standards would be higher. However I recognize that it is unfair to ask the perfumer to take on this responsibility and to probably suffer financially in doing so.

Profumo,

Your last comments were very interesting and I think it's given all of us something more to think about. I think I speak for all of us when I say that it is a great privilege to work on this project with you. I truly look forward to sampling Oud Caravan No. 3.

On another note, I've been wearing both versions of Oud Caravan throughout the week. A few days ago, one of my co-workers mentioned that the smell reminded her of old books in a library (I was wearing No. 2 that day) which we both agreed is not a bad thing as the smell of old books is very comforting. There's a sense of antiquity and maturity to it that's very appealing. I've also worn Oud Caravan No. 1 a couple of times before practicing yoga. I've felt that it helps me focus a bit more on the practice and allows me to be in more of a calm, meditative state.

Congratulations, Profumo! I am very much looking forward to trying it, and to comparing it with the previous versions :-)

I don't know that my comments add that much as most of them have already been covered, but I definitely found the opening of Oud Caravan 2 to be more accessible. I also smelled the band-aid note that people had mentioned in this version. Oddly, I found I liked that note a lot. I smell it more in the few minutes after applying, in the opening. In the heart and base, I get a really tenaceous dry spicy wood scent. I enjoy it a lot, and it is more accessible, but I miss some of the force behind the first version. I can't wait to see what #3 brings! Thanks again for letting me being a part of this great project.

Quick impression...

Sampling La Via del Profumo Oud Caravan #2 this AM. Same smoky woodiness of #3 but drier, less ambery. Also seems more incense-like to me.

Will write more later...