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  1. #31
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    pkiler's Avatar
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    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Timbersilk has been released in the fall, I got my sample, then bought a kilo.


    Sorry, no, I don't know what frags use it.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
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    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  2. #32
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    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Quote Originally Posted by smcphaed View Post
    I ordered 80ml of ISO E Super ($10.50) from perfumersapprentice.com. I bought 95% grain alcohol to use as a base (about $7.00/200ml, where I live.) Using a small perfume spray bottle, I created a solution I'd estimate at about 15% E Super.

    Wearing it alone, it smells like a very light cedar scent. I don't sense much sillage, and I didn't get any comments at work. It does, however, seem to have reasonable longevity, but stays close to the skin.

    Using it in layering is much more interesting. I put a drop of Lavender essential oil (from l'Occitane) on one wrist; another drop on the other wrist, but with a single over spray of the Super E solution.

    The lavender/E Super combination is much more than just lavender+light cedar. The Super E seems to open it up, and the scent lasted much longer than the lavender alone.

    So: is Super E a pheromone that's going to make you irresistible? No. Is it the "silver bullet" for which you've been searching all these years? No.

    Is it something really interesting, and inexpensive, that you can use in combination with other scents? Yes.

    That's my take on it, anyway. And there's no reason to pay over a hundred bucks for Molecule 1 when you can roll your own.
    I agree, it stays close to the skin.
    I love this stuff. It reminds me of something pleasant but I can't quite put my finger on it at the moment. Perhaps the remnants of a classy, very smooth, woody cologne on clothing.

  3. #33

    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Timbersilk has been released in the fall, I got my sample, then bought a kilo.


    Sorry, no, I don't know what frags use it.
    Just got some. Lovely stuff.

    I made a very simple Timbersilk/Ambroxan/Romandolide/Hedione blend and it's light and subtle and airy. Looking forward to refining it a little.

    -

  4. #34
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    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Hi,
    Where can I get some Timbersilk?
    TIA

  5. #35
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    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Quote Originally Posted by numberz View Post
    Hi,
    Where can I get some Timbersilk?
    TIA

    From me...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  6. #36
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    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Hi Paul,
    I meant a supplier.

  7. #37

    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    i have bought iso e super and dillute with pure ethnol 25% ratio (i think 20% is enough or 100 ml)
    YES....
    this is realy somthing els....
    fells nothing...........
    buts its all over you........
    you cannot put it into the words
    just get it and see yourself

  8. #38

    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Quote Originally Posted by numberz View Post
    Hi Paul,
    I meant a supplier.
    Hekserij.nl sells it since april.
    On my formulation blog, you will find free perfume formulations and accords. We also provide bespoke perfume formulations.

  9. #39
    gido's Avatar
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    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    huh? i've bought this stuff there some years ago.

  10. #40

    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Hi Gido, my post refers to Timbersilk, not to the original Iso E Super thread.
    Paul started to refer to Timbersilk as an upgraded Iso E
    Timbersilk was not available to me by Hekserij the past three years and they started selling it some two months ago, as far as i'm informed...
    On my formulation blog, you will find free perfume formulations and accords. We also provide bespoke perfume formulations.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    oops, sorry, my bad. must do some research on timbersilk, then.

  12. #42

    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Quote Originally Posted by gido View Post
    . . . do some research on timbersilk, then.
    Timbersilk is essentially a development in the sequence Isocyclemone E --> Iso E Super --> Timbersilk

    Isocyclemone E is a mixture of four isomers. Where IES is richer in the gamma isomer, than Isocyclemone E, Timbersilk is almost the pure gamma isomer as I understand it.

    The difference is quite obvious when you smell them together though and I'm quite impressed with it. BTW it's made by IFF (the same who make Iso E Super) and, so far as I know, not by Symrise. Also although De Hekserij have it on their Dutch website it isn't yet on their International List - I dare say they would sell some on request though.

    I hear IFF are promoting Timbersilk and Nectarate a the BSP Symposium next week so I'll check my information with them while I'm there and update this if there is anything to add.

    I'm probably going to be buying a fair amount of it I think, by which I mean 1-5Kg as I think it's going to be really useful in higher end work to replace IES.
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
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    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
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  13. #43
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    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Numberz, It appears that I never answered you in this matter, sorry,
    But I got mine from John D. Walsh Co.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  14. #44
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    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    thank you, chris. that's interesting. so it's really a finer version of iso e super, the same but better?

    i'm glad they resisted to calling it iso e super-duper! ;)

  15. #45

    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Quote Originally Posted by Picassoutine View Post
    Thanks for the two recent comments. I've been puzzling about Iso-e super, seeing it in random comments on basenotes. Some people with developed noses seem to find it off-putting. And yet it's sort of a mystery, isn't it? I mean, it's an almost invisible presence that affects the other ingredients or brings them forth?
    elsewhere i've read someone saying that it does for scent what MSG does for food, and that seems entirely apt to me. i personally love the radiant/soft/cedar/pepper/airy effect it has, and in Declaration by Cartier, for example, you don't smell it at ALL the way you [noticeably] do in Terre D'Hermes and Encre Noire...

  16. #46
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    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Quote Originally Posted by gordbrad View Post
    elsewhere i've read someone saying that it does for scent what MSG does for food, and that seems entirely apt to me. i personally love the radiant/soft/cedar/pepper/airy effect it has, and in Declaration by Cartier, for example, you don't smell it at ALL the way you [noticeably] do in Terre D'Hermes and Encre Noire...
    When I first received the Iso E, I noticed that it was very "aloof". But now, after having learned it, I smell it (or something similar) in numerous colognes. For instance, I just got a bottle of Wonderwood and "bang", there it was. And Sauvage? Is it in there? or maybe it's Sylvamber or Timbersilk?
    Thanks,
    Harry

  17. #47
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    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    It is wonderful on it's own, although to buy Geza SchŲn's creation Molecule 01 for $100 is one of the industries biggest (genius?) rip-off ideas ever. I own it for mixing my own fragrances, but I sometimes wear it alone. Sophia Grojsman took it to its summit by using it with Hedione, an Ionone, and a musk in many of her most famous frags. If you like the strange power it has, try Norlimbinol. It also has a strange wonderful power to bring out other notes. Too much is off-putting, but it can really "spice up" a frag.
    Last edited by Possum-Pie; 2nd September 2016 at 12:13 PM.
    I have a TON of Full Bottles/Decants/Samples for trade/sale. Montale, Oud Oils, Amouage, Mancera, Penhaligon's
    Currently wearing: Green Irish Tweed by Creed

  18. #48

    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    Timbersilk is essentially a development in the sequence Isocyclemone E --> Iso E Super --> Timbersilk

    Isocyclemone E is a mixture of four isomers. Where IES is richer in the gamma isomer, than Isocyclemone E, Timbersilk is almost the pure gamma isomer as I understand it.

    The difference is quite obvious when you smell them together though and I'm quite impressed with it. BTW it's made by IFF (the same who make Iso E Super) and, so far as I know, not by Symrise. Also although De Hekserij have it on their Dutch website it isn't yet on their International List - I dare say they would sell some on request though.

    I hear IFF are promoting Timbersilk and Nectarate a the BSP Symposium next week so I'll check my information with them while I'm there and update this if there is anything to add.

    I'm probably going to be buying a fair amount of it I think, by which I mean 1-5Kg as I think it's going to be really useful in higher end work to replace IES.
    As this thread has been resurrected from the dead, I guess I should correct myself.

    Timbersilk most certainly isn’t pure gamma isomer, though it does have more of that isomer than Iso E Super.

    Sylvamber has the highest proportion of the gamma isomer of this type of product on the market, typically 22% (compared to around 8% in Iso E Super (if it’s original IFF material, that from other suppliers may be different), just under 15% in Timbersilk, and around 18% in the IFF captive called Iso Gamma Super). That last figure is according to Scent & Chemistry, the others are taken from the Certificates of Analysis of my stock or their technical data sheets.

    Neither Sylvamber nor Timbersilk smell quite the same as the Iso Gamma Super that is used in Molecule 01, although the former is pretty close it’s somewhat cleaner in odour profile.
    Last edited by Chris Bartlett; 3rd September 2016 at 03:55 PM. Reason: added acknowledgement link
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  19. #49

    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    As this thread has been resurrected from the dead, I guess I should correct myself.

    Timbersilk most certainly isn’t pure gamma isomer, though it does have more of that isomer than Iso E Super.

    Sylvamber has the highest proportion of the gamma isomer of this type of product on the market, typically 22% (compared to around 8% in Iso E Super (if it’s original IFF material, that from other suppliers may be different), just under 15% in Timbersilk, and around 18% in the IFF captive called Iso Gamma Super). That last figure is according to Scent & Chemistry, the others are taken from the Certificates of Analysis of my stock or their technical data sheets.

    Neither Sylvamber nor Timbersilk smell quite the same as the Iso Gamma Super that is used in Molecule 01, although the former is pretty close it’s somewhat cleaner in odour profile.
    Thanks for resurrecting this thread Chris. According to an expert I was recently talking with, there are several gamma isomers of Iso E Super and in Sylvamber they increased the wrong ones (a subjective view of course, but in this sense "wrong" refers to the fact that the isomers they increased were not the ones that make Iso G Super so special) - so Timbersilk is still the closest thing you can get to Iso G Super on the market today.
    Currently wearing: 1000 by Jean Patou

  20. #50

    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Quote Originally Posted by jfrater View Post
    Thanks for resurrecting this thread Chris. According to an expert I was recently talking with, there are several gamma isomers of Iso E Super and in Sylvamber they increased the wrong ones (a subjective view of course, but in this sense "wrong" refers to the fact that the isomers they increased were not the ones that make Iso G Super so special) - so Timbersilk is still the closest thing you can get to Iso G Super on the market today.
    Ah yes, Iím familiar with this line: Iíve heard it several times over the last couple of years and the source can always be traced back to an IFF salesman!

    Iím sure from the perspective of the chemistry itís true - as I mentioned the odour profile of Sylvamber isnít the same as that of Iso Gamma Super - so thereís certainly a difference. However Timbersilk isnít a good olfactory match to Iso Gamma Super: test it for yourself and youíll tell them apart at once. I believe the reason for this is that Timbersilk contains something else, probably a trace of the molecule recently released by IFF as Amber Xtreme, although I donít believe IFF have officially confirmed that.

    I have no particular axe to grind here: I buy, use and sell all three products in similarly large* amounts, they are all good. But if youíre trying to make a replacement for Iso Gamma Super for whatever reason, Timbersilk isnít the best answer in my view.




    _________________________
    * - thatís large for me, not for the manufacturers - Iím a tiny customer of any of these products, typically buying 25Kg at a time.
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  21. #51

    Default Re: what the heck is Iso E Super

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    Ah yes, I’m familiar with this line: I’ve heard it several times over the last couple of years and the source can always be traced back to an IFF salesman!

    I’m sure from the perspective of the chemistry it’s true - as I mentioned the odour profile of Sylvamber isn’t the same as that of Iso Gamma Super - so there’s certainly a difference. However Timbersilk isn’t a good olfactory match to Iso Gamma Super: test it for yourself and you’ll tell them apart at once. I believe the reason for this is that Timbersilk contains something else, probably a trace of the molecule recently released by IFF as Amber Xtreme, although I don’t believe IFF have officially confirmed that.

    I have no particular axe to grind here: I buy, use and sell all three products in similarly large* amounts, they are all good. But if you’re trying to make a replacement for Iso Gamma Super for whatever reason, Timbersilk isn’t the best answer in my view.




    _________________________
    * - that’s large for me, not for the manufacturers - I’m a tiny customer of any of these products, typically buying 25Kg at a time.
    Oh I meant that timbersilk was the closest single product to Iso G Super in that it has the higher amount of the gamma isomer in question - not that it is a replacement for it. For that you either need to work at IFF or being very friendly with someone high up
    Currently wearing: 1000 by Jean Patou

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