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  1. #1

    Default infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Forgive me if i sound like a fool because I have no idea what im talking about... BUT

    I was wondering, can I make my own infusion? I'd really like to blend a tea note into something im working on and I dont have any formulas for a tea blend, so I was wondering.. can I just make it somehow with a bag of tea and a kitchen stuff? if i make a pot of tea and then put it in a stovepot and just slowboil it down ill have extremely concentrated tea... I dont think this helps me because there will still be water in there right? but can i get anywhere with that? or do I need some chemistry glassware? anyone ever done anything like this?

  2. #2

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    if i make a pot of tea and then put it in a stovepot and just slowboil it down ill have extremely concentrated tea...
    And along with the water you will also have boiled off all of the fragrant components.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  3. #3

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Try here for a Black Tea Absolute:
    http://www.sunrosearomatics.com/catalog/pe.html
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  4. #4

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Ive since put a bit more thought into this and decided to make a steam distiller of my own. I have a buddy in biochem 4rth year (im in business nooo science knowledge at all ) who will help me out. thanks for shooting me down tho thanks for the link too ill check out their stuff

    oh btw once I set it up I can make oils of pretty much anything you'd like so If anyone would like an oil they cant find and of which a solid dry form of the plant is available I can make you an oil of it.

    thanks,

    Matt

  5. #5

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Ive since ... decided to make a steam distiller of my own.
    Why? I suppose that it might be fun to see a steam distillation once but after that wouldn't it be awfully boring to sit there hour after hour after hour tending to the still.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  6. #6

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    here is a book about distilling EOs and hydrosols:
    http://www.creationherbal.com/hohyst.html
    (scroll down the page)

    If you buy the book tell me how steam distilling a hydrosol is different from steam distilling to produce an EO. I thought the hydrosol was just the left over water after you separated the EO off the top.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  7. #7

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    thats right yes the hydrosols are a byproduct of the process as far as I understand.

    that method seems a bit sketchy, anything "made in the kitchen" always has too much room for error. lol. im putting together a really nice piece of equipment to do it with. thanks for the link tho

  8. #8

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    im putting together a really nice piece of equipment to do it with.
    So, don't be a tease, lets have a description of the setup you are putting together.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  9. #9

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Its still in research and development, but I've taken this as a model to work around so it will be something similar:

    http://www.heartmagic.com/EssentialDistiller.html

  10. #10

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Do you actually know what component it is from tea that you're trying to extract?
    I mean, when I visit an aromatherapy shop, I've never come across a tea oil, such as the one dcampen has listed, so I'm assuming it's not one of the easier compounds to extract ie. low [EO] in plant material. Also, do you know whether the components you're after can actually be extracted through steam distillation ie. volatiles won't decompose thru excessive heat; volatiles are soluble enough in water to be distilled over. These are all organic compounds, so you're most likely going to lose a lot of material through the water layer unless you re-extract with an organic solvent. And alot of these oils are so soluble in water, they won't be immiscible and separable in the makeshift separating funnel. A lot of volatiles, may also not come over because the temperature of the solvent you're distilling with is incorrect.

    Essential oils from lavender, eucalyptus, orange, bay, rosemary and clove are relatively easy to distil as the volatiles meet all these criteria, I mean, we were able to perform simple distillations of eucalyptus leaves in high school. I'd hedge a bet that the vial of orange oil at the bottom of that webpage is not all orange oil, but mostly water- orange oil, despite it's strong smell in the skin, is difficult to yield. Oranges must be incredibly fresh, and the skin of 4 oranges will only yield 1-2 drops of orange oil, and that includes extractions with an organic solvent.

    And you'll need to take many safety precautions, none of which are listed on that page. It's probably easier and much much cheaper to purchase a bottle of absolute from a company that manufactures essential oils- you know it's high grade, pure, and relatively stable.

    The distillation kit is rudimentary at best, and though the price seems expensive, it's not that far off the mark- of course if you're at a tertiary institution, you can get discounts from your glassblower using your supervisor's account, but it's still expensive, and each piece is easy to break, and expensive to replace.

  11. #11

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Take 4 teabags
    Empty them into a glass container that has a resealable lid like those used for canning. Dont leave the tea in the bags
    Just cover the tea leaves with grain alcohol. Should be about 180 proof
    Seal the jar up and swirl the contents lightly.
    Place in a dark place like a closet and swirl the contents every day for about 30 seconds.
    In a month you will have a tea tincture that will easily blend in your formulations.
    You will have to strain the solids from the liquids.
    The oils from the tea will be captured in the alcohol
    At this point I would add benzoin and a little Ylang Ylang to the alcohol mixture to help bind the tea note.
    You will probably get about an ounce of the tea tincture from this process

  12. #12

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    I don't think a water infusion is such a good idea, you will have to use preservatives and in water you can't dillute any essential oils, nor absolutes. It's far better to make a tincture with high grade alcohol, but pleasssse - no tebags!! Get yourself to a real teashop and buy some different ones; black russian, roiboos (which isn't a tea truly, but works as one) and some green as well. Put in different jars (glass of course), pour alcohol over to cover and ...well, this is the trícky and dangerous side of it - a wee bit of heat. I have tried to make tea tinctures without any heat, but the scent didn't came out the way I wanted. So, put the jar in a bowl and pour hot water around it. The lid of the jar needs to be a bit of, so the heated alcohol vapours can get out that way. Otherwise you risk of blowing it all up and your surroundings with it. Let the water cool of and change it for more hot every now and then, until you find the scent to your liking.

    Tincturing is a wonderful way create unique bases for your perfumes and in some cases a cheap alterantive to more costly EOs and absolutes. Benzoin, frankincens and myhhr tears can succesfully be tintcture as can most spices - and most of them - vanilla pods.

    Good luck with your experiments ;D

  13. #13

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    I like the idea of using alcohol to extract the oils. I'm a little bit concerned about the condenser-- I think many of your oils will remain trapped on the surface of the leaves you are trying to extract the oils from. I'm also worried that some of your oils may be decomposed by the heat, although it is tea, so I suppose boiling water should be fine.
    If you're having trouble getting the oils to come out in the alcohol (and please, please be careful when heating high-proof alcohol, particularly around any appliance that may spark or open flames) you may want to try extracting the tea into a small amount of hot water, then adding alcohol. Most of the oils should partition into the alcohol, and the small amount of water shouldn't hurt it too much.

  14. #14

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    I also thought that solvent extraction would be the way to go. But looking at the list of essential oils at the snowdrift site (http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/essentialoils_2.html), I see that most of them are steam extracted.





  15. #15

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Quote Originally Posted by smellitnow
    Take 4 teabags
    Empty them into a glass container that has a resealable lid like those used for canning. Dont leave the tea in the bags
    Just cover the tea leaves with grain alcohol. Should be about 180 proof
    Seal the jar up and swirl the contents lightly.
    Place in a dark place like a closet and swirl the contents every day for about 30 seconds.
    In a month you will have a tea tincture that will easily blend in your formulations.
    You will have to strain the solids from the liquids.
    The oils from the tea will be captured in the alcohol
    At this point I would add benzoin and a little Ylang Ylang to the alcohol mixture to help bind the tea note.
    You will probably get about an ounce of the tea tincture from this process
    i tried this with jojoba oil and it actually worked quite well thanks

  16. #16

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Tinctures of saffron and vanilla are reputed to be superior to other extractions (and work out hugely cheaper - a major consideration for the hobbyist who's just shelled out for narcissus and rose otto among other things) so intend to make some using pure alcohol. Following the discussion on tea, which I might also have a crack at; I was considering doing the same with a variety of tobaccos. Is anyone aware of potential health problems (e.g. skin cancer) associated with the topical application of tobacco?

  17. #17

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Is anyone aware of potential health problems (e.g. skin cancer) associated with the topical application of tobacco?
    Yes, definite health problem! Tincture of tobacco will be very high in nicotine content. Pure nicotine is used as an insecticide and is quite deadly to people too.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  18. #18

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Really? In the concentrations in the tincture let alone when diluted in a blend and then alcohol? I know nicotine is a fairly powerful neurotoxin (indeed, one of the most toxic alkaloids known to man), but I would have thought as you can happily sit chewing tobacco and swallowing the liquid (risking cancers and heart disease of course) because nicotine is water-soluble, the small amount absorbed from a perfume should be OK.

    The fatal dose of nicotine for an average sized adult is 40-60 mg (0.6 mg/Kg), or about the content of 2 grams of tobacco, assuming all of the nicotine is extracted. I would have thought the greatest risks for topical application (in common with chewing tobacco) would be the nitrosamines and benzopyrenes that cause cancer in the long-term user. I have however been unable to find any info on melanoma cause by handling/topical application of tobacco. Assuming a tincture of 1g in 70g of alcohol (I’m not sure whether this would yield enough fragrance), the resulting tincture would then be diluted to 3-10% solution in a perfume so that the levels should be safe (at most 1-3 mg in 100ml).

    What do fragrance houses use to get a tobacco note (of particular interest would be the "niche" perfumers as they tend to favour natural ingredients as far as I can see) is there a way of getting rid of the nasties from the tincture?

  19. #19

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Really? In the concentrations in the tincture let alone when diluted in a blend and then alcohol?
    It depends on the concentration of nicotine in the particular tobacco, of tobacco in tincture, tincture in perfume and if the user is habituated to nictonine.

    I know nicotine is a fairly powerful neurotoxin (indeed, one of the most toxic alkaloids known to man),
    Really? I had never heard about it being "one of the most toxic alkaloids known to man". Where did you hear this, a grade school smoking prevention lecture?

    but I would have thought as you can happily sit chewing tobacco and swallowing the liquid
    Really! You chew chewing tobacco and swallow the liquid! I would like to see this.

    (risking cancers and heart disease of course) because nicotine is water-soluble,
    It is not the nicotine that causes cancers and heart disease. Did you hear this in that same smoking prevention class?

    because nicotine is water-solublethe small amount absorbed from a perfume should be OK.
    Because nicotine is water soluble it will readily be absorbed through the skin. *

    The fatal dose of nicotine for an average sized adult is 40-60 mg (0.6 mg/Kg), or about the content of 2 grams of tobacco, assuming all of the nicotine is extracted.
    I expect that all the nicotine will be extracted.

    I would have thought the greatest risks for topical application (in common with chewing tobacco) would be the nitrosamines and benzopyrenes that cause cancer in the long-term user.
    Thinking about it now I don't understand why chewing tobacco causes cancers. I would expect polyaromatic hydrocarbons such as benzopyrenes to not be formed until the material is combusted.

    Assuming a tincture of 1g in 70g of alcohol (I’m not sure whether this would yield enough fragrance),
    Yes, that would be very weak.

    the resulting tincture would then be diluted to 3-10% solution in a perfume so that the levels should be safe (at most 1-3 mg in 100ml).
    Heck, at those low concentrations you could just waive a cigarrette over the bottle and acheive the same effect.
    *

    What do fragrance houses use to get a tobacco note (of particular interest would be the "niche" perfumers as they tend to favour natural ingredients as far as I can see) is there a way of getting rid of the nasties from the tincture?
    Perhaps a steam distillation.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  20. #20

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    OOH get her!

    Firstly, what's Grade School? If you mean University then yes that’s where much of that comes from though not a smoking cessation lecture, probably a biochemistry though possibly a histology or epidemiology one.

    Secondly, in addition to what can only be described as a flippant and unhelpful tone of your response, while I am no expert, there are factual inaccuracies contained within it: -

    While nicotine has not been shown to be greatly carcinogenic, Nicotine and Carbon Monoxide are the primary causes of cardiovascular disease for the tobacco smoker, Nicotine (alone) the primary cause of heart disease for chewers/snuff users (assuming the heart disease in either case is smoking related rather than genetic). Nicotine feeding (to monkeys) has been shown to increase the concentration of low-density lipoproteins in the blood (Cluette-Brown et al. 1986) a profile linked to arteriosclerosis in humans. Nicotine has also been shown to have an impact on platelet production, increasing the risk of blood clots (Renaud et al. 1984). In addition the action of Nicotine has been shown to increase the number of endothelial cells in the blood serum in vivo and to cause increased mitotic activity (cell generation by division) in vitro pointing to direct damage to these tissues from nicotine. The links between nicotine’s action on the sympathetic and para-sympathetic nervous system and its impact on cardiac health continue to be investigated (I came across a research opportunity for a neurologist/biochemist in the States, Texas I think, while looking for info on topical effects prior to my initial question) Vasoconstriction is another by-product of nicotine as is interference with normal wound healing and epithelialisation – no good at all when the ticker’s hammering away at ten to the dozen after a nicotine rush (nicotine also cause tachycardia, so makes acute cardiac problems worse as well as causing chronic ones). Perhaps not as dramatic as some animal toxins but getting on for being on *par with something like strychnine. Felt sad in Selfidges as I passed the tobacco stall, missed it - after writing this down I'm fairly glad I remained on the wagon (fagwise) while in the pub tonight!

    While nicotine is water-soluble and this acts as a means of extraction (for the living plant too – look up tobacco croppers’ disease and Green Tobacco Syndrome) it is not its solubility in water that makes it a potential contact poison (an old fashioned and non –technical term I know) most larger chemicals that are readily absorbed through the skin are more lipid-soluble (organophosphates, PCBs, oestrogen, fentanyl, nicotine etc) We are pretty waterproof, good job otherwise we’d leech out a lot of vital nutrients in the bath. It’s also why you have to put some more water-soluble chemicals on a mucus membrane (mouth, stomach eyelid or up the chuff) in order to absorb them. Look in any textbook with a section on pharmotaxis.

    The primary mechanism for carcinogenesis in the mouths of tobacco chewers is the action of tobacco specific nitrosamines N-nitrosamine (TSNA), N'-nitrosonornicotine (NNN), and 4(methylnitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridyl)-1-butanone (NNK) (some complex aromatics are produced, I believe, as part of the curing process so combustion is not required this is indicated in some studies from Malaysia - their curing processes might be different obviously.) These are shown to cause mutation in the gene P53 (among others), the associated protein p53 is intimately involved in the cell lifecycle commencing the process that leads to cell death. This has been demonstrated (along with the mutation of gene P16 in a significant subset of oral cancer in chewers and smokers) A single mutation creates a pre-cancerous cell one that is highly predisposed to become malignant on a second mutation (either from the same source or other environmental factors such as other carcinogenic chemicals or even some viruses)

    Thirdly, while I have no proof, I’ve never chewed tobacco, and can’t be bothered to do any research on it I can’t believe that no nicotine rich saliva finds its way down the gullet either on the initial chew or when the wad of tobacco is stuck between the gum and cheek, or gum and lip.

    Fourthly, you are possibly right about the fragrance at such concentrations, but that might be a matter for experiment (bluebell only works at concentrations below 0.1%)

    Fifthly, Bitchy and right is OK (if a little rude to the sensitive Britisher), bitchy and funny is great, bitchy and dull is tedious, and bitchy, dull and wrong is unforgivable. *:-*

  21. #21

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    I am hurt! Bitchy I take as a compliment; wrong I can live with but dull ... that really hurts.

    So, have you talked yourself out of using a nicotine containing tincture of tobacco?

    The material from one US supplier does not contain any nicotine. It is called a concrete which means it was likely extracted using an aliphatic hydrocarbon.

    http://libertynatural.com/coa/231.htm
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  22. #22

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    Not to get into this argument, but...

    All of your descriptions of the effects of nicotine in your second post on the subject are correct, but none of them make it a neurotoxin. To my knowledge nicotine is not neurotoxic.



    Also, water soluble drugs can also be taken under the tongue (sublingual) or up the nose, just a fyi.

  23. #23

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    I was under the impression, though I might be completely wrong, that while the normal levels of nicotine that a tobacco users expose themselves to does not demonstrate significant neurotoxicity, nicotine exhibits neorotoxicity in two ways: -

    1. In high doses (insecticide poisoning, children eating tobacco etc)

    2. Developmentally (particularly to developing foetuses of smoking mothers or to children/adolescent tobacco users/victims of poisoning)

    I'm surer about the latter than the former, and think it has been demonstrated in both vivo and vitro. Either way, it is certainly not one of the most potent neurotoxins known to man; I must have been getting carried away! I would however make a case for it being one of the most toxic chemicals commonly used by a large number of people and one of the greatest causes of ill health globally. Then there’s alcohol and social problems, cream cakes … bugger.

  24. #24

    Default Re: infusion/distillation make my own oil???

    I would however make a case for it being one of the most toxic chemicals commonly used by a large number of people and one of the greatest causes of ill health globally.
    I'll agree with that... :P

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