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  1. #31

    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    OK the Spanish Leathers are from another book, which gives tables of several formulae at once so you can compare them and see what they have in common.
    They all have a lot of Tinc Castoreum, (50-270 parts per 1000, seems to be major in all formulae, average 250 pp 1K))
    Tonquin Musk, Civet abs, Sandalwood, Bergamot, Neroli, Orange Flower, Rose Oil, Musks Ambrette & Ketone, Tonka Abs, Coumarin,
    and they all have rect Birch Tar oil but in tiny quantities 3-5 parts per 1000.

    the following ingreds vary across the formulae
    Patchouli, Jasmine,Cassia, Orris, Methyl Ionone special, Tolu, Styrax,Peru, Vanilla, vanillin, Ylang, Vetivert,Vet acetate, Clove, Mace lemon, Lavender, Petitgrain, Clary, Estragon, Verbena, various aldehydes, Opoponax, Guaiacwood, Amyl salicylate, Heliotropin, and only one has Oakmoss, 10 pp 1000.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    Silk - The Spanish Leather does seem to have more animalic notes. It's great to have both formulae - I can't wait until weekend to try them *both*! I'm a real pig about things I love to do, and go overboard. Thanks so much.
    A question - Do you know any fragrances that has the Spanish Leath. in it? I just tried Chanel's "Cuir de Russie" last week and was extremely disappointed (to say the least) when it turned to cow patties on my skin. The most tortuous part was when I opened the sample and the first 10 seconds on my skin, it had a wonderful sexy, smooth, leathery note I could fall in love with. I don't know which note turned on my skin - I assume castoreum or civet. But I've never had that strong a cow dung note before, and have worn perfumes with castoreum and civet, so I really don't know. The Spanish leather has *more* of the animalics, so I'm both curious and apprehensive.
    I'd love to be able to create that sexy leather of C. de R. without the dry heaves.
    I hope my library has copies of Gattefosse, but am not confident it does - it's not that big or old.
    The P.H. Pybus book on Amazon 'The Chemistry of Fragrances' comes with a positive Amazon review by Luca Turin! That's good enough for me.
    The Caulkin one, 'Perfumery: Practice and Principles' sounds wonderful, but the price does make me wince a little.
    I've been eyeing the Perfume Makers website since I found it yesterday. I'm seriously considering buying his book, but it's a lot of money, and the rhetoric has a bit of the hard sell, so I'm still just looking. He says you're assured of success, and I don't know that I trust that.... but I *am* curious about the free perfume. I may not be able to resist seeing what sort of stuff they came up with.

    -Kathy-

  3. #33

    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    Actually I should have said the Spanish Leather formulae were given as "Peau d'Espagne" in that book. It mentions that they are "now out of favour", being older types (not that that would put ME off LOL)
    if you do a google search on Peau d-Espagne you will find versions (colognes) *were made by Houbigant, Roger& Gallet and others, late 19th C and early 20th C. The idea seems to have come from this stuff, which was used to fragrance writing paper, gloves, etc.

    Peau d-Espagne, or Spanish Skin.
    Is merely highly-perfumed leather. Take of oil of rose, neroli, and santal, each 1/2 oz.; oil of lavender, verbena, bergamot, each 1/4 oz.; oil of cloves and cinnamon, each 2 drs. In this dissolve 2 oz. of gum benzoin; in this steep good pieces of waste leather for a day or two, and dry it over a line. Prepare a paste by rubbing in a mortar 1 dr. of civet with 1 dr. of grain musk, and enough gum tragacanth mucilage to give a proper consistence. The leather is cut up into pieces about 4 inches square; two of these are pasted together with the above paste, placed between 2 pieces of paper, weighted or pressed until dry. It may then be inclosed in silk or satin. It gives off its odor for years; is much used for perfuming paper.


  4. #34
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    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    Oh my gosh! I go off for a week and everyone is posting all of a sudden. Great to have all of you around and I'd love to hear from you.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    flathorn, slave2love; Santa Maria Novella has a scent called Peau d'Espagne which is a deeply resinous leather with aloewood(?). It's worth searching out because it's very good. Along with Nostalgia, SMN has some of the most unique leather fragrances out there. They're available here in Australia so I don't think you should have trouble finding it in the US.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    this thread gets the most traffic so I might as well ask here, does anyone know where I can get tuberose EO ?

  7. #37

    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    Libertynatural.com

    On the sidebark, click on Bulk ingredients -> absolutes and there will be two tuberoses, one from india and one from egypt. The egyptian is slightly cheaper, but both are quite expensive. Of course, it gets cheaper as you buy more, but the egyptian tuberose for example is $13 for 2.3 mls, and the indian is about $16 for the same amount. However, I doubt you'll find them for less than liberty sells...for the same quality oils, they're quite cheap! One thing to keep in mind: they sell in bulk. You don't have to buy a lot of each oil, but if you buy less than $50 total, there's a surcharge of like $15. It's not hard to buy more than $50 from them though, they have just about every EO or absolute or CO2 distilled you could want! They also have carriers oils, bottles, and distillate waters (also known as hydrosols)

    Naturesgift.com also sells it. They're a much more customer friendly site, but pretty darn expensive! They also have less selection. They only sell one tuberose absolute, from morroco, at $60 per ml! I honestly do not think there's much of a difference in quality at all, Of the oils I have tried from both places, I find them on average to be of equal quality. I personally find liberty's orange flower absolute to be superior. But then again I have not tried naturesgift's tuberose, and I'm currently out of liberty's.

    ~Silk

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    absolutes are much stronger than EO's right? how would I dilute it back down to EO strength so I could use it in my blends (im only using EO's and I want to keep track of how much im using for the formulas)

  9. #39

    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    To be honest you're thinking about it in the wrong way.

    Absolutes will capture the fragrance better than an EO. Certain organic solvents are used that best preserve the fragrant molecules. EO's, the other hand, are soley from steam distillation. More molecules are lost this way. That's why you get hydrosols, which is the water left from that steam distillation, that smell nice and have their own properties.

    Most valuable and expensive substances will be extracted using solvents, giving absolutes. They're worth it! Sometimes, other things like vanilla that are less expensive will be as well to produce stronger scents for perfumers. But most of the times, it's expensive florals, like rose, tuberose, jasmine, lotus, orange flower, and osmanthus. In fact, you'd be hardpressed to find many of these in EO form. The most notable exceptions wold be rose and orange flower, or as in it's EO form it's more often called neroli. These are available for the theraputic value of the natural and whole product, without solvents. Those looking for the theraputic use of such oils, especially if they're to be taken internally!, should get EO's, whereas the perfumer should definitely choose the absolute.

    Alright, now about strength. Each oil naturally has it's own differences in strength. For example, ginger or cinnamon EO will be soooo much stronger than even the strongest jasmine absolute...use sparringly! There is a difference in strength btwn rose absolute and rose EO, but it's not even double the strength. It depends on the specific plant, the batch, the distiller, and the supplier, but I'd say an absolute is on average 20-30% stronger than its EO counterpart. There's no need to dilute, really. Just remember how many drops, and remember that it was the absolute you used. For most high end florals, I highly doubt you'll ever use EO's anyway, and I recommend that if you have a choice that you don't.

    Good luck, and happy mixing!
    ~Silk

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    Wow, that seems insanely expensive. Im trying to work a rose blend into another blend which is loosely based on that first leather note you gave. "Musky leather" i think it was called. How much of this Rose absolute should I be using?

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    also... does anyone have any good forumlas for a "tea note" ?

  12. #42

    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    Can you help me start my own ”nose” adventure? I have just bought some eo and I am trying to create my first perfumes. I put some drops of some of them into dark bottles, waited for a week and checked what they smelled like (on blotters). Some seem promising, some horrible.
    What should I do next? Can I now add some more drops to the same bottles to try to make the first versions sound better? Will the time that passed between the moment of original mixing and the moment of adding new drops change the smell of the final recipe? If so, should I perhaps start every new attempt in a brand new bottle?! (That would cost much, for I am certainly not a perfume genius and the attempts will be numerous).
    How long should I wait until the mixture is ready? When can I mix it with alcohol?

    Another question - I would like to create some feminine, flowery fragrance - but rose, jasmin, neroli and iris are at the moment too expensive materials for me. Are there any inexpensive nice flower eo? I do have ylang ylang and I do have geranium (the latter I do not particularly like as a flower fragrance - what should I link it with?).

    Thanks for your patience for the perfumer baby!
    Ola

  13. #43

    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    For the leather note you might want to incorporate a little castoreum tincture with birch tar, its the classic leather base. Tincture or tincture kits can be purchased from profumo.it. Alternatively, there seem to be a fair few Americans (not sure about Scandinavians and Russians) on the posts here - is beaver hunting popular? *

    Re canaga oil: it is the same plant as Ylang Ylang as far as I am aware. The principle difference is that Essensial Oil of Ylang Ylang is a fractionated product (types 1-3 being the least to most volatile oils *- all 3 are mixtures of the same chemical components, but in differing proportions. The 3 different oils are not entirely different chemicals, the process is not that accurate - unlike commercial petrochemical fractionation) Canaga is not fractionated but a straight steam extraction whole shabbang.

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year :-*

  14. #44

    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    Just noticed I'd inadvertently skipped loads of posts that make mine unnecessary, still an opportunity to wish all you fellow voluptuaries season's greetings. :

  15. #45

    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    Hello all, anyone ever tried costus root for leathery note?

  16. #46

    Default Re: Basenote accord project

    Another 'non floral' floral that can really round out a blend..make it sing... Cassia Absolute... I've used it to soften and 'round' a lot of 'masculine' blends in the past.

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