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  1. #31
    Yvan
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    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Hi bottoni...welcome to the forum! It sounds like real ambergris is one of the expensive tinctures! I haven't seen any ambergris that's less expensive on the net...mind you, I haven't looked too hard...luckily, as a base note, you'd only need a few drops, I guess. Unless you want the real stuff, you might be able to get away with an ambergris "fragrance oil," which I assume is like a "faux" ambergris, but a whole lot less expensive. Here's one link that carries it--they're probably lots more--and it's under their perfume oils.

    http://www.leavesandroots.com/Oil/oil.html

    Not sure how fragrance oils mix with alcohol, but I'm guessing they'd mix just as well as essential oils.

    As to the proportions of notes, I believe it's a secret that frag companies guard closely.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Yvan - Leaves and Roots has nice prices. I like the chart which translated ounces, drams, drops and ml.

    I found ambergris at www.profumo.it. (And it seems to have come down in price - to 65.00 Euros.) The AMBERGRIS FRAGRANCE OIL on the Leaves and Roots website is a synthetic - a chemical replacement for ambergris which probably is ambreina.

    My question is: does it justify the effort to make cologne if we use synthetics? The Basenotes Old Spice pyramid lists ambergris. My argument for making the Shulton formula is that Proctor and Gamble doctored Old Spice into something unpleasant, probably by substituting
    'natural ingredients' for 'chemicals'.

    I am going to rewrite my shopping list, determine quantities and prices, and probably order the Leaves and Roots version of ambergris (ambreina) because I am an amateur and can't justify that expensive of an experiment.

    Yvan, if you have a spare moment, check www.perfumersworld.com.

    Also found: formulator's alcohol on www.snowdriftfarm.com. It is expensive as ItalianStallion mentioned.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    That supplier of alcohol is an excellent find!
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Hi Bottoni:
    I'm sure the manufacturer of Old Spice uses only synthetic ambergris, since the import of any whale product as well as Musk is prohibited (at least here in the 'States).
    Because of this as well as the animal rights movement and cost factors, many perfume manufacturers have switched to synthetic alternatives.
    But to answer your original question, commercial perfumes are considered "proprietary", meaning they are not required to disclose their ingredients unlike cosmetic and skin care products.
    The list of ingredients for Old Spice is probably only the main notes in the blend; it could literally contain hundreds of minute ingredients, each one contributing to the final product.
    Unfortunately, without a chemical analysis or the actual formula we must go with what we have, so there are no guarantees that our rendition will smell like the original!

    From Basenote's Directory:

    Old Spice
    Top Notes: Orange, Lemon, Spices, Clary Sage, Aldehydes
    Middle Notes: Cinnamon, Carnation, Geranium, Jasmine, Heliotrope, Pimento Berry
    Base Notes: Vanilla, Musk, Cedarwood, Frankincense, Benzoin, Tonka, Ambergris

    The Top Note of a fragrance is the largest portion of the blend, comprising up to 50% of the scent. It is usually made up of volatile oils that evaporate quickly, revealing the Middle Note which is the main scent, making up around 30% of the blend.
    Finally, the Base Note comprises the slowest-evaporating scents that anchor the Top and Middle notes as well as adding depth and richness to the final scent. It is the smallest portion of the scent, only comprising 15-20 percent, since the scents are generally heavier and more likely to overpower the lighter scents in the Top and Middle notes.

    Cat
    Last edited by Cat; 31st July 2008 at 02:31 AM. Reason: edited

  5. #35

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    since the import of any whale product ... is prohibited (at least here in the 'States).
    You think that there is some prohibition against the import of whale vomit? Where did you get this information? I think that this belief that ambergris is a prohibited substance is a, not uncommon, misperception.

    http://www.profumo.it/perfume/aromat...mbergris_1.htm
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    The link you provided is an interesting one, but I did notice it's an Italian website, which probably has different regs. than the U.S. regarding contraband materials.
    I did manage to find this:

    From http://www.csc.noaa.gov/opis/html/summary/wca.htm:

    Whaling Convention Act of 1949 (16 U.S.C. 916-9161)
    "Under this Act, it is illegal for any person under U.S. jurisdiction to engage in any act prohibited or not do any act required by the Convention, this Act, or any regulations promulgated by the Secretary of Commerce pursuant to this Act. It is also illegal to ship, transport, purchase, sell, offer for sale, import, export, or have in possession any whale or whale products taken in violation of the Convention, this Act, or any regulation promulgated by the Secretary of Commerce pursuant to this Act. The prohibitions of this Act do not preclude the taking of whales for scientific investigation, with the approval of the Secretary."

    Unfortunately, certifying whether ambergris is humanely harvested from the sea or the by-product of slaughter is difficult, especially since the end product has changed many hands in the process.

    I have found that what some unethical manufacturers are claiming to be humanely-harvested ambergris is nothing more that lumps of resins and essential oils that are sold in import shops as "amber" (I'll post more about this later).

    True ambergris is foul-smelling (I have been fortunate(?) to smell some at a museum). The sample was well over 50 years old, and still reeked! :P
    Old formularies claim that upon dilution, it becomes a valuable fixative for delicate perfumes (in extremely high dilution, I might add)!

    "Amber" (and yes, the term has been used in the past as an abbreviation for ambergris as well as for substances that resemble the scent) resin is usually a combination of benzoin and labdanum resins with essential oils like sandalwood, balsam peru, clary sage, etc. added, depending on the manufacturer. The presence of benzoin reveals itself in the small, needle-like crystals of benzoic acid sometimes found on the surface, giving it a "furry" appearance.
    The scent, if you are not familiar with it, is warm and vanilla-like, very unlike ambergris, which has a smoky, fetid smell.


  7. #37

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Thank you, Cat, for the blending formula. Just finished ordering everything. (I notice you didn't include aldehyde.)

    Plan on preparing three test batches: Cat's formula, Lime & Bergamot Cat and Vetiver & Others Cat.

    Question: Purchased 'jasmine absolute 10% in jojoba' and 'vanilla 10% in jojoba'. Same proportion - 1 drop?

    Question: Of what would an oriental formula be comprised?

    Note: If purchasing Everclear, you may want to shop in a neighborhood other than your own. Evidently it has quite a following among the chronically drunk/homeless set. Avoid the stigma.

    Recent find: www.birchhillhappenings.com. Good selection of essential oils, sells in small amounts (15-20 drop vial for $1 - 2, perfect size for trial run). Shipping and handling $5.00.

    If my calculations are correct, I should more than enough Everclear left to party with my 'new friends'.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Correction: Three test batches are to be labeled:

    Old Cat

    Old Cat Fresh Lime

    Old Cat High Endurance

  9. #39

    Default grain alcohol product - Perfumer's Blend

    There is a website called www.chemistrystore.com. They sell a product called Perfumer's Blend. It is 10% Distilled Water and 90% SDA. When I've used this as a carrier, the overall quality of my finished product was higher than the eau de toilette products sold at major department stores and at least at the same level or slightly higher than their eau de parfum products.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yvan
    So, has anyone been trying to make any fragrance here? ÊHow have your experiments gone? Ê

    I'd like to try making a cologne using a pure grain alcohol like Everclear, but I hear that even if you let it sit for 4 to 6 weeks, it'll still end up smelling kind of like alcohol. ÊHas anyone found that to be true?

  10. #40

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    The Perfumers World website ( http://www.perfumersworld.com ) has some great software called The Perfumer's Workbook you can download for free.
    It has a raw material database, a section where you can compose and record your own compositions, a pie chart type prediction of the odour of a compounds at different stages of evaporation etc etc

    I have found it useful to keep track of my concoctions.


  11. #41
    JDBIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    When I mix my oils with the alcohol, they always separateand the mixtures remain cloudy not clear. How do I get it to look and act like a marketable fragrance?

  12. #42

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    What type of alcohol? If perfumer's alcohol, switch to formulator's alcohol. www.snowdriftfarm.com

    If using vodka, Everclear... it may need to 'rest' for a longer period or it may never 'uncloud'.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    I'M HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM(
    Oil mixed with everclear FANTASTICALLY, But when added the glycerine/distilled water mixture- IT TURNED CLOUDY - and the oil seperated.

    PLEASE HELP US FIGURE OUT WHATS WRONG (

  14. #44

    Default Re: grain alcohol product - Perfumer's Blend

    Quote Originally Posted by whatareyouwearing
    There is a website called www.chemistrystore.com. *They sell a product called Perfumer's Blend. *It is 10% Distilled Water and 90% SDA. *When I've used this as a carrier, the overall quality of my finished product was higher than the eau de toilette *products sold at major department stores and at least at the same level or slightly higher than their eau de parfum products.<br><br><br>[quote author=Yvan link=board=creation;num=1091657249;start=15#23 date=1105229732]So, has anyone been trying to make any fragrance here? ÊHow have your experiments gone? Ê<br><br>I'd like to try making a cologne using a pure grain alcohol like Everclear, but I hear that even if you let it sit for 4 to 6 weeks, it'll still end up smelling kind of like alcohol. ÊHas anyone found that to be true?
    <br>[/quote]

    I'm sorry...what is SDA??

  15. #45

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Smata:

    The good news is that you used Everclear which mixes with oils and water - *like FORMULATOR'S ALCOHOL.

    SDA is an alcohol which is evidently diluted with 10% distilled water. Let's avoid this product.

    Did you let your mixture stand?

    Too much water in proportion to alcohol? Why add water? Add small amount of alcohol. Make certain to measure the amount of alcohol before adding to mixture...

    Glycerin? Why add glycerin? It may have clouded your mixture. (You are making a 'pourable' perfume, right?)

    Snowdrift Farms explains the difference between PERFUMER'S ALCOHOL and FORMULATOR'S ALCOHOL:

    * *http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/form_perfumes.html

    My early attempts with Everclear yielded crystal-clear results; however, I did not add water or glycerin...

    Note: Write everything down in a notebook. I use one page per experiment. Dates, measurements, EOs, etc. If something goes terribly right you want to be able to duplicate your efforts! Multiple experiments? Label your containers, too.

    Note: Make your trial batches relatively small as EOs, etc are expensive. You can always 'scale-up' your measurements to make large batches once you've perfected your experiments. *

    Sounds like you are enjoying your project. Please post your results to share with us.

    Antonio.

    P.S. Welcome to Basenotes.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    SDA is an alcohol which is evidently diluted with 10% distilled water. Let's avoid this product.
    "SDA" stands for "Specially Denatured Alcohol", it has nothing to do with water content. Denatured means that stuff has been added to the alcohol to make it unfit for drinking, the Specially means that the denaturant(s) were carefully chosen so that the alcohol would still be fit for other uses such as perfumery. A blend of 90% SDA with 10% water will be excellent for making perfumes and colognes; there is no reason to avoid this product.

    Oil mixed with everclear FANTASTICALLY, But when added the glycerine/distilled water mixture- IT TURNED CLOUDY - and the oil seperated
    This is what one should expect. Essential oils are soluble in alcohol, they are not soluble in water. As you continue to add water to your alcohol you will eventually reach a point where the alcohol/water mixture will no longer dissolve the essential oils and they will seperate out.

    Glycerin? Why add glycerin? It may have clouded your mixture.
    It was the water not glycerin that caused the cloudiness. Glycerin will function as a fixative.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Wow Y'all are GREAT ;D. It's fantastic to finally find like minds

    Thanks for ALL the advice.. Maybe I didn't explain my situation well enough.

    My CONCENTRATED perfume Oils & Everclear worked like a DREAM .

    But, I found a recipe online for a body SPLASH, I was trying to "dilute" concentrated perfume into an after bath Body Splash. Maybe this is where my problem lies. The recipe called for dilution of glycerine in water added to concentrate.

    Maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong in this area. Thanks a MIL!!

    Walk in beauty....Shelly

  18. #48
    dirk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (in progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by ItalianStallion
    Feel free to give me your comments on the layout. 8)
    hi, stallion! let me make one remark to your primer on mesuring: when counting drops you MUST dilute your materials beforehand, also assuming that you will use liquids as well as solid, cristaline, etc. materials! preferably at a 10% strength, otherwise you could never repeat your experiments precisely! this dillution should then be made by weighting the fragrance material as well as your dilluent.
    si doux, tout musc...

  19. #49

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Mister K,

    When I first started out, I kept a diary of each of the scents I created. In the diary I would include the following:

    The ingredients; amounts by drop, ml, etc. But I also noted the source of each ingredient. Someone wise told me early on that essential oils are like wine---each with a brand and a pedigree. "Lemon" essential oil may generally smell the same from maker to maker, but the subtle differences could mean a huge difference after oils are blended.

    Also, I kept track of the changes in the fragrance over time. This helped me develop my NOSE. I came to understand how Maker A's Patchouli reacted with Maker B's Amber and with Maker C"s chemical aroma, for example. It's Fun! The wonderful news is that if you follow basic rules about blending Base, Heart & Top notes, and learn what blends well together, your newly created fragrance only improves with age.

    Caroline

  20. #50

    Talking Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    OMG, I'm new to Basenotes, and I have to say...I'm LOVING this thread. You definitely make me want to start creating scents NOW. Fantastic information here. Thank you so much.

  21. #51

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    This is incredibe. Thank you very much.

  22. #52

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by smata View Post
    Wow Y'all are GREAT ;D. It's fantastic to finally find like minds

    Thanks for ALL the advice.. Maybe I didn't explain my situation well enough.

    My CONCENTRATED perfume Oils & Everclear worked like a DREAM .

    But, I found a recipe online for a body SPLASH, I was trying to "dilute" concentrated perfume into an after bath Body Splash. Maybe this is where my problem lies. The recipe called for dilution of glycerine in water added to concentrate.

    Maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong in this area. Thanks a MIL!!

    Walk in beauty....Shelly

    Please if you are selling your products know that you can't sell them for use on the body unless you use SDA you cannot sell products for use on the body with grain alcohol, vodka etc. You must use SDA or a Perfumers blend. I just don't want anyone getting in trouble.

  23. #53

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Would using a metal bottle be wrong. I'm making a somewhat "futuristic" scent and I think it might go well for testing on my friends.

  24. #54

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    you cannot sell products for use on the body with grain alcohol, vodka etc. You must use SDA or a Perfumers blend.
    That is not true. There is no problem with using grain alcohol. I take it you have been reading the disinformation on a certain vendor's website.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  25. #55

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    The only way you can use grain alcohol to mix and sell as perfume is if you check IDs and have an ABC license Gotta use denat otherwise

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen View Post
    That is not true. There is no problem with using grain alcohol. I take it you have been reading the disinformation on a certain vendor's website.
    I'm a colognosaurus. Rawr!

  26. #56

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    here is a cool tool. it measures in increments of .01ml
    Attached Images Attached Images

  27. #57

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    this has helped me learn so much - the only thing im unsure is how much carrier to add to the formulas and whether there is an alternative carrier to alcohol ?

    Thanks for your help :-)
    when your walking through hell walk faster !
    old enough to be mature - young enough to act plain stupid

  28. #58

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd4t View Post
    The only way you can use grain alcohol to mix and sell as perfume is if you check IDs and have an ABC license Gotta use denat otherwise
    This is just not true!
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  29. #59

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by veggie4life View Post
    this has helped me learn so much - the only thing im unsure is how much carrier to add to the formulas and whether there is an alternative carrier to alcohol ?

    Thanks for your help :-)
    The amount of carrier depends on how strong you want the scent to be. Refer to the intial post on dilution levels.

    A good substitute for alcohol is MCT Fractionated Coconut oil. It's light, non-greasy, has no scent, good shelf life and inexpensive. If you look at Etsy Buy, a lot of the home-made non-alcoholic perfumes use fractionated coconut oil.

  30. #60

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by bottledupemotions View Post
    The amount of carrier depends on how strong you want the scent to be. Refer to the intial post on dilution levels.

    A good substitute for alcohol is MCT Fractionated Coconut oil. It's light, non-greasy, has no scent, good shelf life and inexpensive. If you look at Etsy Buy, a lot of the home-made non-alcoholic perfumes use fractionated coconut oil.
    Thanks for your help i've just looked at coconut oil on the web and it looks very reasonably priced at £10 for a litre
    when your walking through hell walk faster !
    old enough to be mature - young enough to act plain stupid

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