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  1. #91
    New Member Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Hey everyone. A question, Please excuse my ignorance, Not being smart just honest, but isn't denatured alcohol dangerous? One of the things I used to do is make jewelery. For 8 years I lived among the Navajo and ground turquoise for the Navajo to make Indian Jewelery. I used denatured alcohol for my alcohol lamps to melt the hard wax we used to attach Dowel rods to the back of slabbed Turquoise to grind it. Once ground to shape and polished we froze them. Then the stone would simply pop off the rods using our thumb. I always read labels when using chemicals, and denatured alcohol was no different. Every single bottle I ever read said, and I quote: " Warning, Poisonous, cannot be made non poisnous!" I also know for sure Perfumers for years have used alcohol. One of my very few non pleasant memories as a young man and still even now as a single man is necking is girls. They always did and do always did and do spray perfume on their neck and breast. Many times it tasted very bitter. Remember that guys? It seems It is not as bad as it used to be. Was that denatured? I always blamed it on the Perfume ingredients, but now I am not sure it wasn't the alcohol I was tasting. I would much rather taste everclear than bitters on a girls neck!
    I guess I need to find out about getting legal Moonshine and using it. It is plentiful around here. Legal White Lightening Moonshine are Moonshiners that have bothered getting tax license for their product. It sells in liquor stores in mason jars.

    miccisue
    To answer your post, Everclear is very strong as a drink, too strong and should be mixed and not consumed straight. There can be severe gastric intestinal reprocussions and even death from consuming pure Everclear. It is about health and not any law. I walked into a poker party one night and grabbed the first bottle on the table and took about four huge swollows without looking to see what it was. I almost pissed out on the po er pott. it willy quit me hick billy hard! It got my face blurey and face my nase fum. Yes it did it that fast! I grabbed and drank a lot of pop to delute it on my stonic. I think what saved me is I had just eaten a large meal.
    Last edited by Boom Boom; 19th December 2011 at 04:46 AM.

  2. #92

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (in progress)

    Simply fantastic even for a beginer like me.

  3. #93

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by leto View Post
    Hello, I ordered Iso E Super online and fractionated coconut oil as carrier. My question is, is fractionated coconut oil a complete substitute for alcohol?

    To make an EDT like Escentric Molecules (which is said to be consisting of 100% Iso E Super), should I just mix Iso E Super and fractionated coconut oil with 20:80 rate or should I also use alcohol?
    Iím afraid the answer is neither. FCO and ethanol donít mix so you canít use both, however FCO isnít a full substitute for alcohol because you wonít be able to spray it and the fragrance (in this case the Iso E Super) will behave differently in this different medium so what you have wonít be like Molecule 01. On the other hand you may find you like it better, so itís well worth trying - just donít mix ethanol in.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  4. #94

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    . . . isn't denatured alcohol dangerous? . . . " Warning, Poisonous, cannot be made non poisnous!" I also know for sure Perfumers for years have used alcohol. One of my very few non pleasant memories as a young man and still even now as a single man is necking is girls. They always did and do always did and do spray perfume on their neck and breast. Many times it tasted very bitter. Remember that guys? It seems It is not as bad as it used to be. Was that denatured? I always blamed it on the Perfume ingredients, but now I am not sure it wasn't the alcohol I was tasting.
    Yes. And no.

    The whole point of denaturing alcohol is to stop you using it to drink - and the point of that is to ensure you pay the extra taxes on the drinkable stuff.

    The poison added to it varies and some of them have a strong smell such as the commonly used methyl alcohol - which turns ethanol into Ďmethylated spiritsí, others less so. For perfume you obviously need one thatís as low in odour as possible.

    What you were tasting was denatonium which is added to denatured alcohol to make it taste bad and thus avoid people drinking it despite the warnings and poisoning themselves.

    Perfumers alcohol has additives which are poisonous to drink but not to put on your skin. Which does not mean itís not dangerous, just that itís safe enough in normal use.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  5. #95

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    I am just starting to venture into this and I was wondering is there a list that tells which frag. oils are Top notes,Heart notes, and Base notes??? Thanks so much for all of the information!!

  6. #96

    Post Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Hello! I became fascinated on how to make your own perfume a while ago, and I followed your discussion, which helped me be successful in created my own signature scent. I used ethanol(90%) as a perfume base, but I was wondering If diluting it with other substances wont affect on how long the scent will last. I am asking because I feel my skin just a bit irritated if I apply it immediately after I've had a bath. Thank you!

    http://www.makeyourownperfume.co.uk

  7. #97

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    I'm surprised that no musks are included among the base notes. I've been using natural musks but want to switch to synthetics. I'm having a hard time finding the musk synthetics undiluted. I have found musk ambrette and am working on musk ketone. I have other synthetic musks from the Perfumer's Apprentice but they're very light.

  8. #98

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    I'm surprised that no musks are included among the base notes. I've been using natural musks but want to switch to synthetics. I'm having a hard time finding the musk synthetics undiluted. I have found musk ambrette and am working on musk ketone. I have other synthetic musks from the Perfumer's Apprentice but they're very light.
    Some synthetic musks are crystalline solids and as a result are often sold either pre-diluted or Ďmobilisedí in something to make them liquid and easier to handle.

    There are a huge number of musks on the market but the two you are working with are not the best choices - Musk Ambrette is prohibited by IFRA and Musk Ketone is banned in some countries.

    These are some of the musks I use routinely:
    Ambrettolide (this synthetic is the same as the musk in Ambrette Seeds - a very good quality diffusive musk, slightly fruity)
    Cashmeran (interesting - liquid and easy to handle - but hard to use successfully because it has a musty, almost mushroom tone to it that needs carefull blending. When it works it very warming and velvety)
    Celestolide (crystals that are slow to dissolve in ethanol. Adds more brightness than the others.
    Ethylene brassylate (also called Musk T, widely available, liquid at room temp and cheap, good fixative properties and easy to use)
    Exaltolide (solid at room temp but melts easily, very widely available and used macrocyclic musk)
    Galaxolide (very widely available and used, especially in functional products. Often sold as 50% in DEP as itís solid otherwise. A polycyclic musk which is not biodegradable)
    Muscone (this is the musk that is in musk deer pods but synthesised. Lovely fine musk that has the edge over the others for its erogenic quality) l-Muscone is a more expensive and even finer quality - just the L isomer.
    Romandolide (not so widely available, similar in scent to Galaxolide but macrocyclic and biodegradable)
    Tonalid (crystalline solid again but a bit easier to dissolve than some. Often disparagingly referred to as Ďlaundry muskí itís nevertheless a good fixative and very widely used)
    Velvione (another very fine musk of great diffusion, rather like ambrettolide by less fruity and even softer. A great exalting agent)

    There are plenty of others. I nearly always use musks in combination rather than using just one in a composition. In particular you can get good effects by using very tiny amounts of ambrettolide or velvione alongside one of the cheaper musks. Both work well with Exaltolide and Romandolide.

    Another option is Auratouch from Givaudan - a blend of several of their musk products which I think also includes a captive.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  9. #99

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Thanks Chris for your so thorough answer. I will now set about tracking down these musks in small quantities but not in such high dilutions that they can't be used in perfume.

  10. #100

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (in progress)

    Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated!

  11. #101

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (in progress)

    Hello,
    I am feeling lucky to join this forum, thanks to giving a lot of information.
    I have a problem using glycerine for fixative, I make 10% EO, 20% Alcohol, 69% Ethanol and 1% glycerine
    when I mix them it will be mixed but after 24 hours the glycerine will be separated.

    thanks

  12. #102

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    How many drops per ml?
    This varies by the oil...a thick oil like patchouli or vetiver is going to come up in big thick drops (like molasses, the vetiver) while a citrus oil is going to give you more drops per ml.  The "average"...ie industry standard is:

    600 drops 1 oz
    300 drops 1/2 oz 15 ml
    100 drops 5 ml one teaspoon
    20 drops per ml.

    If you are using the same droppers each time you'll get 'consistent' ratios.  If you are putting together formulas in mass quantities, once you've fixed your mix (ie 5 parts this oil, 3 parts that one, and 2 of that one, etc.)  then you can use a scale that measures in grams and weigh them, instead of counting drops.??????????????

  13. #103

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (in progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by FURQAN AHMED View Post
    Hello,
    I am feeling lucky to join this forum, thanks to giving a lot of information.
    I have a problem using glycerine for fixative, I make 10% EO, 20% Alcohol, 69% Ethanol and 1% glycerine
    when I mix them it will be mixed but after 24 hours the glycerine will be separated.

    thanks
    First off I don't recommend using glycerine as a fixative - it often leads to solubility problems and isn't a good fixative anyway.

    Secondly I'm confused by your ratios:

    10% EO (Essential Oil presumably)
    20% Alcohol (what alcohol? normally this means ethanol but . . .)
    69% ethanol (so I presume the 20% was something else?)

    If you want a near odourless fixative I'd suggest you try one of these:

    IPM (isopropyl myristate)
    BB (benzyl benzoate - but note that there is an IFRA restriction on this - see relevant sticky thread)
    BA (benzyl alcohol - but note that there is an IFRA restriction on this - see relevant sticky thread)
    Glucam P20 (see Perfumer's Apprentice for details)

    Alternatively see the section in this thread about musks, or use something like Hedione, which is an excellent fixative as well as being a widely used exalting agent especially for jasmine and other floral fragrances.

    Hope that helps
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  14. #104
    Basenotes Plus
    awilson529's Avatar
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    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by ItalianStallion View Post
    Do you keep a log of what a scent smells like or a chart of how many drops you used in each scent?
    Absolutely.

    Can you add materials other than oils to create a scent? I read someplace that you could create a cologne using oils and the peels of fruits or broken up spices to an alcohol base, let it sit for a couple weeks and then strain what is left through a coffee filter.
    Oils are more powerful and are used in the best perfumes.  And not all plants produce oils.  i.e., there is no such thing a Gardenia absolute or essential oil.  Any freagrance tha has Gardenia is using a synthetic.  While experimenting with other things may be occasionally fun, I'd stick with the oils.

    [i[Also any recommendations on where to get good glass sprayers? I've only been able to find cheap plastic ones which probably affect the scent.[/i]
    I too had a hard time finding quality sprayers.  However, for the classic perfume bottle,it's hard to beat a Roger Gandelman original handblown bottle.  i.e., check these out:  http://www.njmgallery.com/pages/gandelman.html

    I really like the idea of creating a solid perfume; that sounds very convenient... where could I get the beeswax, and will the beeswax affect the scent?  I think you listed beeswax as a basenote.
    Many of the online sources for oils will also offer beeswax.

    [i]Another question : what is the expected life of an oil once you purchase it, and what is the expected life of a scent once you create it?[/]
    Same as perfume.  At least 18 months and them will begin to degrade.  Which brings up a good point - store your oils in cool, dark place as you would good perfume.
    Huh, cool! I'm a glasblower (flameworker, actually. Roger Gandelman, the glassblower in the link is a furnace worker) and make perfume bottles along with wine glasses and jewelry. I use borosilicate, or Pyrex or Simax, the brand name.

  15. #105

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    A few quesitons/clarifications, please:

    The OP says to mix the oils undiluted, but I've read elsewhere to dilute all oils to 10% and some to 1% before working with them. Which is right?

    If I'm supposed to dilute to 10%/1% before mixing, that already leaves my mixture too diluted to be called a parfum, which is 20% to 40% pure oils according to the OP, and likely too diluted to be an Eau de Parfum. Is this correct?

    Now, this question is probably stupid, but I want to make sure I'm doing things correctly: If I'm to dilute my oils before mixing, I can dilute them with whatever carrier agent I choose, right? I'm planning on using an alcohol carrier agent, so I would dilute each oil to 10% or 1% with that alcohol and wouldn't need to use an oil carrier agent, correct?

    Finally, I will probably end up using essential oils, absolutes, and synthetics. Will most of these need to be diluted the same amount or is one type generally stronger or weaker than the others? Is there anything I wouldn't dilute?

  16. #106

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by kvn View Post
    A few quesitons/clarifications, please:

    The OP says to mix the oils undiluted, but I've read elsewhere to dilute all oils to 10% and some to 1% before working with them. Which is right?
    Both methods work, however most of us prefer to work with diluted materials when designing new fragrances because it involves less waste of valuable materials, is easier to be accurate, makes using trace amounts possible and enables you to evaluate the results of your work more quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by kvn View Post
    If I'm supposed to dilute to 10%/1% before mixing, that already leaves my mixture too diluted to be called a parfum, which is 20% to 40% pure oils according to the OP, and likely too diluted to be an Eau de Parfum. Is this correct?
    It does, so if you like your mixture when you've finished, you'll need to increase the concentration. I use a spreadsheet to help do that accurately.

    Quote Originally Posted by kvn View Post
    Now, this question is probably stupid, but I want to make sure I'm doing things correctly: If I'm to dilute my oils before mixing, I can dilute them with whatever carrier agent I choose, right? I'm planning on using an alcohol carrier agent, so I would dilute each oil to 10% or 1% with that alcohol and wouldn't need to use an oil carrier agent, correct?
    Correct. But you must choose either ethanol or oil and not attempt to use both as most oils won't dissolve in ethanol.

    Quote Originally Posted by kvn View Post
    Finally, I will probably end up using essential oils, absolutes, and synthetics. Will most of these need to be diluted the same amount or is one type generally stronger or weaker than the others? Is there anything I wouldn't dilute?
    Generally yes, all need diluting but strength varies enormously, particularly with aroma chemicals. I've given some advice on blending, including a downloadable spreadsheet, on my blog. There is also advice there on suggested starting materials together with notes on each, including how much to dilute them, which you may find helpful.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  17. #107

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    just a bit confusing to read now!

  18. #108

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (in progress)

    Thanks for posting all this incredible information! I don't mean to be rude, but I suggest a copy edit of the first post. I agree that it's confusing to read as it is currently formatted, and it reflects rather poorly on the forum. Is there any way that it could be cleaned up? What's with all the   characters everywhere? I can see that it is eight years old, so maybe the OP is not around to clean it up? Just wondering. I'm very curious about the subject, just having trouble making my way through all the gobble-de-gook.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItalianStallion View Post
    Feel free to give me your comments on the layout. 8)
    Last edited by professor goggles; 13th September 2012 at 11:50 PM.

  19. #109

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    I was looking for a thread to post some pics and i think I found it. I was hoping that someone here could help me identify this boatload of oils etc I inherited and tell me what kind of professional would possess all this stuff. I am guessing a Perfumist or a Scientist of some sort. A member on MUA suggested that these are raw materials for a perfume maker. Some of the bottles have only numbers and letters ie. fla-318. Some are little stones in a bag, the previous owner says it looks like Amber to her. There is even a 5 lb bag of beeswax pellets and then some kind of long was sticks. In addition to everything in these photos, she has tons of what she calls incense. It is all different colors and it is powder. There is lots and lots of this stuff, it's a little overwhelming for me. Any ideas?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/arborvitae/8004501879/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/arborvitae/8004500445/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/arborvitae/7998346793/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/arborvitae/7998349821/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/arborvitae/7998351841/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/arborvitae/7998354265/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/arborvitae/7998374608/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/arborvitae/7998345093/

  20. #110

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Italianstallion's explanation is awesome! So much info.

    Is there a database providing information on the relative impact / strength of each oil? I Haven't found any in google or here.

    Maybe we could start something, like a strength rating from 1 to 20 for each oil.


    Digindirt, you're so lucky! Try to make some experimental mixes.

  21. #111

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    I don't know if this is the place for this post, but I continue with the development of a sandalwood perfume. The perfume is pretty powerful at the beginning, but after a few hours, dries down to virtually nothing. I'd be willing to forgo some of the initial power for a little more persistance. Any ideas? I've tried cistus, but have found it too domineering.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Another question. The literature abounds with descriptions of ambergris as the perfect fixative yet the amounts called for in old recipes are so minute that I can't imagine the ambergris having a real physical affect on the other components of the perfume. I've tried combining ambergris tincture (homemade) with my perfumes and then measuring how long they stay on a smelling strip and I can't notice any difference. I continue my quest to deeply understand ambergris and how it can be used.

  22. #112

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Hey all. I'm hoping somebody can help me figure out these ratios. I'm attempting to make a cologne with EOs and Everclear. The original post states "'Eau de Cologne' is the least concentrated form of a fragrance and generally contains 2 - 5% perfume oils dissolved in water and alcohol."

    What should the ratio of water to alcohol be? Any help is appreciated.

  23. #113

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Personally I don't use water, even in Eau de Cologne but if you are going to use some I'd suggest the proportions will be something like this:

    Fragrance concentrate 2-5%
    Distilled Water 3-6%
    95% v/v Ethanol 92%

    The more fragrance you include the less water you should use to avoid solubility problems. It's only real function is to make the fragrance cheaper to produce and to reduce the drying effect of the alcohol on the skin - contrary to the often-expressed view on certain blogs there is no evidence it contributes any fixative effect.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  24. #114

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Hi,
    Since you've managed to read this whole thread, ending up here, you are probably really looking for your first DIY perfume making experiments.
    Just wanted to let you know it's real fun, and if you are looking for some real usable formulations, don't hesitate to look at my formula blog: https://sites.google.com/site/perfumerecipes/
    Happy perfuming!
    Jeroen.

  25. #115

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    for people who have used Everclear how long have you found you need to let the mix sit for the alcohol odor to go? 4 weeks?
    Last edited by Crusher_; 7th February 2013 at 11:55 PM.

  26. #116

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    No need for water and the alcohol odour won't go - what happens when you let it mature is the perfume settles into a stable (or mostly stable) state. Don't expect ethanol to stop smelling because that won't happen. On the other hand when you put some of your fragrance on your skin the alcohol smell will be gone in a few seconds so you'll hardly notice it.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  27. #117
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Just stumbled across this thread. Fantastic information on perfume making. Thanks for a job well done.

  28. #118

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Just wanted to say "hi" and thank all who have contributed to this thread thus far. I have been looking for a more extensive list of base, middle and top notes and am so glad what I have found here. I have a small collection of Essential Oils that have been sitting in a drawer for quite a while now and am just getting around to exploring Aromatherapy and Perfumery. I find all the information here very useful for someone just starting out and wanting to create my own scent(s)! Thanks again. I look forward to exploring this site more in the future!
    MrsC a/k/a Connie

  29. #119

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post

    The poison added to it varies and some of them have a strong smell such as the commonly used methyl alcohol - which turns ethanol into ‘methylated spirits’, others less so. For perfume you obviously need one that’s as low in odour as possible.
    Hi Chris, I have access to only methylated spirit. I'm unable to get any perfumer alcohol nor pure grain alcohol at where I live. Before I try diluting my essential oils in it, will the strong odor that you speak of dissipate after a certain period? Worse case scenario, I'll just experiment with blending in DPG till I can find a source for good alcohol.

  30. #120

    Default Re: Primer on How to Make Perfume (Version 1.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by Neraka View Post
    Hi Chris, I have access to only methylated spirit. I'm unable to get any perfumer alcohol nor pure grain alcohol at where I live. Before I try diluting my essential oils in it, will the strong odor that you speak of dissipate after a certain period? Worse case scenario, I'll just experiment with blending in DPG till I can find a source for good alcohol.
    It will dissipate, yes, but the smell is powerful and offensive to most people while it lasts so to be honest I'd stick with DPG until you can find a source of good alcohol.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

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