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  1. #1

    Default Finding Common Tones

    Finding Common Tones
    By: Brad




    In the music world, advanced theory teaches the musician how to find common tones for the purpose of constructing an instrumental solo to be accompanied by a chordal progression. Oddly enough, this technique for the serious student of music can be used on your next fragrance hunt!

    When finding the common tones in music, the student must analyze the chord progression that accompanies the solo. Using a basic example as to not be complex, if a progression contains a specific sequence of chords such as:

    E minor, A minor, C major, etc….

    one can determine the signature to solo in and never be out of key! To do this, let’s list some of the notes is each key listed above without being thorough:

    A minor: A, E, C, etc…….

    E minor: E, B, G, etc.……

    C major: C, E, G, etc……

    From our elementary analysis, we see that it is safe to be in the key of “E” since it appears is all the chords of the progression. Is it up to the artist to decide the flavor of the composition by using any number of modes or scales in the key of E.

    Now, let’s relate this to perfume hunting. As most of us know, fragrances are built upon a similar pyramid just as chords are arranged to infer a distinct characteristic. Fragrances have top notes, middle notes, and base notes. Some fragrant compositions may include all of these pyramids or exclude one to two depending on the artist.

    When fragrance hunting, a detailed map of what you might be looking for can be helpful and easily constructed. A good place to start is by gathering your most beloved fragrances, samples, and decants in your wardrobe and work with each one at a time. Start with fragrance X. You may notice what really does it for you about fragrance X is the bergamot, lavender, etc. *in the top notes and cedarwood in the basenotes. When working and sampling fragrance Y, you may notice that you did not care for the top note but the carnation (as in Equipage) in the middle was to die for. Next, you sample fragrance Z and determine the sandalwood and leather combination (as in a number of fragrances), can melt the world with temptatioin.

    Here is where you construct a rudimentary diagram to put things into perspective:

    * *Top Notes * Middle Notes Base Notes *


    Frag X: * *bergamot, lavender did not like * cedarwood

    Frad Y: * *did not like *carnation did not like

    Frag Z: * * did not like did not like * * sandalwood, leather


    Now comes the exausting part. Search directories of your favorite fragrance websites that list the notes in each fragrance. This can be done on our beloved Basenotes Directory, a perfume web site, or you may even have to call a store to make inquiries. Dictate the notes in each pyramid on a plethora of fragrances you might be interested in using the model above. One of your entries might look like this:

    * *Top Notes * Middle Notes Base Notes *

    Frag Q: *Artemisia, lavender, * *nutmeg, geranium * *sandalwood, cedarwood
    *bergamot *carnation, cinnamon * amber, moss, leather

    From highlighting your likes and ignoring your dislikes, you can see that this is a fragrance you may want to try which happens to be Jazz by YSL!

    I hope this has helped some of you and provided an interesting way to look at fragrance hunting with an intelligent plan of attack!

    Brad

  2. #2

    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    actually it's impossible to tell from what you listed it could just as well be in a minor ( which by the way has a c natural, not c# ) or c major ( which is the relative major for am anyway ) since each of those chords exists within eachother's signatures, could just as easily be in G but im not gonna list out every possibility. common tones arent how you determine in what key you should solo. but good try anyway good fragrance hunting concept anyway

  3. #3

    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    Quote Originally Posted by genvy2
    actually it's impossible to tell from what you listed it could just as well be in a minor ( which by the way has a c natural, not c# ) or c major ( which is the relative major for am anyway ) since each of those chords exists within eachother's signatures, could just as easily be in G but im not gonna list out every possibility. common tones arent how you determine in what key you should solo. but good try anyway good fragrance hunting concept anyway
    Your predilection for dramatic antics is not amusing. You are woefully out of your debt. It is silly to think I listed a chord within a chord as you put it. I listed notes within each chord. As I noted, my outline is geared for the reader who does not understand music. Otherwise, I would discuss double-flatted diminished scales, lydian chord or scales with a raised 4th (mode of a major scale built on 4), mixolydian however would be a diatonic scale that may be considered as having the same order of tones and semitones as the major scale except the fifth (dominant) note is taken as the tonic or starting pitch of the scale or may also be considered a major scale with the leading tone moved down by a semitone, etc etc. The C# I listed is actually in a Chord that is lies betwee maj/min, I thought it irrelevant as giving a complex name would confuse others. The C note is not important to my aim so instead of listing broken chords and fancing voicings, I will remove the # since it apparently confused you. If you research, you will find that constructing a chord that utilizes both maj and min nuances is very cool and done in both classical and jazz. Again, I noted that I did not list every possibility as it is not important to this thread. PM with every possibility you can dream up and I will show you more. Aren't 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, inversions and so on, very fun? *

    So, we could turn this topic of my brief return to help others into a music thread in which I could school you, or you can not post a thread unless it contributes to the meaning and purpose herein insofar as finding an approach to deciding your next fragrance. My point is concise. I will not adress your ill-concieved notions of music theory as I don't enjoy correcting those not under my tutelage. Study some more please and PM me with any questions you might have as I would be happy to help. I explained myself because you are a newbie it seems but, good try and, think before you come on here next time.

    Now, this thread will not only help some beginners perhaps but shows how other experiences can relate to fragrance. I would like others to post unique and personal approaches as well!

    Thanks,
    Brad

  4. #4

    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    x

  5. #5
    The_Giraffe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    Quote Originally Posted by ikkitosennomusha
    [quote author=genvy2 link=1149123427/0#1 date=1149125495]actually it's impossible to tell from what you listed it could just as well be in a minor ( which by the way has a c natural, not c# ) or c major ( which is the relative major for am anyway ) since each of those chords exists within eachother's signatures, could just as easily be in G but im not gonna list out every possibility. common tones arent how you determine in what key you should solo. but good try anyway good fragrance hunting concept anyway
    Your predilection for dramatic antics is not amusing. You are woefully out of your debt. It is silly to think I listed a chord within a chord as you put it. I listed notes within each chord. As I noted, my outline is geared for the reader who does not understand music. Otherwise, I would discuss double-flatted diminished scales, lydian chord or scales with a raised 4th (mode of a major scale built on 4), mixolydian however would be a diatonic scale that may be considered as having the same order of tones and semitones as the major scale except the fifth (dominant) note is taken as the tonic or starting pitch of the scale or may also be considered a major scale with the leading tone moved down by a semitone, etc etc. The C# I listed is actually in a Chord that is lies betwee maj/min, I thought it irrelevant as giving a complex name would confuse others. The C note is not important to my aim so instead of listing broken chords and fancing voicings, I will remove the # since it apparently confused you. If you research, you will find that constructing a chord that utilizes both maj and min nuances is very cool and done in both classical and jazz. Again, I noted that I did not list every possibility as it is not important to this thread. PM with every possibility you can dream up and I will show you more. Aren't 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, inversions and so on, very fun? *

    So, we could turn this topic of my brief return to help others into a music thread in which I could school you, or you can not post a thread unless it contributes to the meaning and purpose herein insofar as finding an approach to deciding your next fragrance. My point is concise. I will not adress your ill-concieved notions of music theory as I don't enjoy correcting those not under my tutelage. Study some more please and PM me with any questions you might have as I would be happy to help. I explained myself because you are a newbie it seems but, good try and, think before you come on here next time.

    Now, this thread will not only help some beginners perhaps but shows how other experiences can relate to fragrance. I would like others to post unique and personal approaches as well!

    Thanks,
    Brad
    [/quote]


    Sorry people are hatin', at least to me this seems like a good idea. Badass response by the way Ikk. It does sort of make sense to continue this argument elsewhere though seeing as this is a fragrance forum. I don't really care but I know that the moderators do.
    The only problem with this method of finding fragrances is that the pyramids of notes often have little correlation to the smell of the fragrance, so it wouldn't work every time. That being said, I suppose it would still in general lead people in the right direction which is always nice.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    so summary of your post is 'im better than you but dont care to argue about it over the internet so that everyone else can see in case i lose so send me pms for safety by the way im not gonna argue about music in this thread anymore so i get the final word and im once again better than you'

    right
    you're not even worth the time indulging in an intelligent musical conversation with, using medium-level terms in respect to the entire scape of music theory that appeal to the uninformed audience as highly intelligent does not fool the students of music. sorry.

    on topic: ive done that before with basenotes of frags its actually how i usually gone about the matter before looking at them straigth up lol

    edit: i was asked not to take it any furteher on here so i will stick to pm.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    ive never thought about that giraffe ( corelation w pyrimads )

  8. #8
    DustB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    Gents,
    You've made yourselves clear and all readers of this thread will get your points and see who's talking and what they're talking about. Please leave it at that. If anyone wants to talk about common tones applied to fragrance finding I'm happy to leave the thread open, but if that isn't the focus of the thread I'll lock it.

    Thanks everyone for your patience and understanding. Any questions about this I am happy to answer by PM.
    Thanks,
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Finding Common Tones



    Sorry people are hatin', at least to me this seems like a good idea. *Badass response by the way Ikk. *It does sort of make sense to continue this argument elsewhere though seeing as this is a fragrance forum. *I don't really care but I know that the moderators do. *
    The only problem with this method of finding fragrances is that the pyramids of notes often have little correlation to the smell of the fragrance, so it wouldn't work every time. *That being said, I suppose it would still in general lead people in the right direction which is always nice.
    Thanks Dude!

    You are right Sir! It could very well turn out to be a miss but it gives a place to start. Your favorite notes mixed with other essences might turn out to be a whole other beast or it might be the holy grail you were looking for if pronounced! Good point!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    ikkitosennomusha,

    Now that's an original post.

    You thought outside the box in regards to applying music theory with fragrance. *I commend you for that. I'm not a musician but I found it refreshing to read a post that takes a detour from what is normally written on this board.

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    Quote Originally Posted by ikkitosennomusha
    Finding Common Tones
    By: Brad




    In the music world, advanced theory teaches the musician how to find common tones for the purpose of constructing an instrumental solo to be accompanied by a chordal progression. Oddly enough, this technique for the serious student of music can be used on your next fragrance hunt!

    When finding the common tones in music, the student must analyze the chord progression that accompanies the solo. Using a basic example as to not be complex, if a progression contains a specific sequence of chords such as:

    E minor, A minor, C major, etc….

    one can determine the signature to solo in and never be out of key! To do this, let’s list some of the notes is each key listed above without being thorough:

    A minor: A, E, C, etc…….

    E minor: E, B, G, etc.……

    C major: C, E, G, etc……

    From our elementary analysis, we see that it is safe to be in the key of “E” since it appears is all the chords of the progression. Is it up to the artist to decide the flavor of the composition by using any number of modes or scales in the key of E.

    Now, let’s relate this to perfume hunting. As most of us know, fragrances are built upon a similar pyramid just as chords are arranged to infer a distinct characteristic. Fragrances have top notes, middle notes, and base notes. Some fragrant compositions may include all of these pyramids or exclude one to two depending on the artist.

    When fragrance hunting, a detailed map of what you might be looking for can be helpful and easily constructed. A good place to start is by gathering your most beloved fragrances, samples, and decants in your wardrobe and work with each one at a time. Start with fragrance X. You may notice what really does it for you about fragrance X is the bergamot, lavender, etc. in the top notes and cedarwood in the basenotes. When working and sampling fragrance Y, you may notice that you did not care for the top note but the carnation (as in Equipage) in the middle was to die for. Next, you sample fragrance Z and determine the sandalwood and leather combination (as in a number of fragrances), can melt the world with temptatioin.

    Here is where you construct a rudimentary diagram to put things into perspective:

    Top Notes Middle Notes Base Notes


    Frag X: bergamot, lavender did not like cedarwood

    Frad Y: did not like carnation did not like

    Frag Z: did not like did not like sandalwood, leather


    Now comes the exausting part. Search directories of your favorite fragrance websites that list the notes in each fragrance. This can be done on our beloved Basenotes Directory, a perfume web site, or you may even have to call a store to make inquiries. Dictate the notes in each pyramid on a plethora of fragrances you might be interested in using the model above. One of your entries might look like this:

    Top Notes Middle Notes Base Notes

    Frag Q: Artemisia, lavender, nutmeg, geranium sandalwood, cedarwood
    bergamot carnation, cinnamon amber, moss, leather

    From highlighting your likes and ignoring your dislikes, you can see that this is a fragrance you may want to try which happens to be Jazz by YSL!

    I hope this has helped some of you and provided an interesting way to look at fragrance hunting with an intelligent plan of attack!

    Brad
    Bravo! I've been doing that for quite some time. Looking out for my favourite notes and looking out for fragrances that contain as many of them(and still smell good, of course). Oh, and I appreciate how you have kept music theory simple....I play a little piano but was never good in theory

  12. #12

    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    While your original post was no doubt well-intentioned, there are a number of caveats I feel I should point out.

    First, this method may be impractical for some. Many people (yes, even here) may not be able to identify individual notes by themselves, let alone in combination with all of the others. This is particularly true given that many notes in modern perfumery are produced by synthetic aromachemicals which may not exactly resemble anything BUT themselves.

    Then, assuming that one is able to identify what it IS that they like about their favorite scents, there is the possibility that their favorite notes may not work well TOGETHER. Perfumery is far more complex than music theory and the results are far from mathematically predictable.

    But, assuming that everything works together, one then has to search Basenotes for scents containing some or all of them.. keeping in mind that some of the pyramids are incomplete or perhaps even wrong! Then, once one finds matching scents, one still has no good idea of what the cologne actually SMELLS like, let alone sillage and longevity.

    Of course, it is not a bad idea to search Basenotes for something you like, if you know what you want. But after that, you still need to read reviews, and ultimately sample the scent for yourself, to see what you really think of it.

    There's also the possibility that you may like notes you're not already familiar with, or that you may like them combined in ways you're not familiar with, and you won't find them this way...

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    Excellent post Ikkito, very interesting indeed.

    As usual I see that a very interesting post has attracted some of the 'know it all's' out of the Basenotes closet who always think that they know better.

    Guys, Ikkito has come up with a good suggestion here, don't put him down for it.
    Fine fragrance is alive; it breathes, unfolds and unravels with each passing hour....

    Roja Dove

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    Barry,
    Members weighing and thinking over Ikkito's post is what's going on here and why the post has life. Members are free to agree and disagree with the thread's thoughts and test Ikkit's hypothesis/analogy as they wish.
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    Inconsistent moderation DustB!!!!! > Yesterday you were saying that the posters were in the wrong and now when I post in support of Ikkito, I am in the wrong.

    When one moderates, one should remember that one is not to take sides. If one doesn't like a particular poster, which you have made quite clear in the past through your remarks on certain people's threads. A moderator is somebody who moderates with an open mind, they do not let personal feelings enter into their decisions.
    Fine fragrance is alive; it breathes, unfolds and unravels with each passing hour....

    Roja Dove

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Barry
    Inconsistent moderation DustB!!!!! > Yesterday you were saying that the posters were in the wrong and now when I post in support of Ikkito, I am in the wrong.

    When one moderates, one should remember that one is not to take sides. If one doesn't like a particular poster, which you have made quite clear in the past through your remarks on certain people's threads. A moderator is somebody who moderates with an open mind, they do not let personal feelings enter into their decisions.
    I'll keep your thoughts in mind as I make choices in how I moderate the board.

    Here's what I don't like:
    As usual I see that a very interesting post has attracted some of the 'know it all's' out of the Basenotes closet who always think that they know better.
    That conflicts with this:
    #8: Be respectful
    Flaming or personal attacks are not allowed or tolerated. Be respectful of others.
    Treat people how you wish to be treated.
    As I mentioned, members are weighing and thinking over Ikkito's hypothesis/analogy and are invited to like it or dislike it, test it, enjoy it, use it, swear their lives by it. Members are not invited, Barry, to call other members know it alls from the Basenotes closet under cover of supporting Ikkito.

    If members will stay on Ikkito's topic, their posts are welcome. If they take swipes at other members, it is a different matter.

    I'll engage discussion of this subject with anyone by PM. I don't want this thread hijacked further by a discussion of specific members, a bunch of members, or my moderation. Off the public forum I'm happy to discuss and think about my decisions.

    Thank you all.
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    DustB,

    I feel it is necessary to offer my humble insight. A member replied basically calling me an idiot and that is ok as everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, as progenitor of this thread, I offered my rebuttle and explanation so there would be no further confusion as to my intent to keep focus on the subject. You are not able to answer that for me. Next you post stating "Gents" ....etc. and go on to threaten the lock down of the thread. Until now, I respected that. I read where you tell my friend that it is ok to test my ideas. If one wants to make a spirited protest, don't you think I have the right to rebuttle without having the thread locked down? I know you just want to head any trouble off before it gets out of hand and I commend that but perhaps your intrusion was haste and premature. We don't need mods popping up announcing their threats as often as I have noticed you doing so.

    So, to recap, the question is, how can you condone the testing of an idea without some sort of rebuttle or explanation. Your actions vs. your statements are clearly contradictory. From what I gather, it is ok to attack someones ideas but not ok to defend? When you earn a Ph.D, professors attack and the student defends their thesis, in this case, my work. As far as I can tell, no real harm has been done and confusion has been settled in PM as I instructed to do so.

    All the best,

    Brad

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    Brad,
    Great to read your thoughtful reply. I think you did defend yourself yesterday and I addressed a problem of the thread becoming one of personal attacks and personal defenses. That's off fragrance topic, and I said Gents to appeal to your and other members's higher standards. I am thankful to you and others who followed those wishes, and thankful to everyone who has, as you wished when you posted, thought over your idea. I have acted so that your idea is discussed, and so that this thread does not become a referendum on you.

    Now I act so that this thread is not a referendum on moderation. PM only.
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Barry
    When one moderates, one should remember that one is not to take sides. If one doesn't like a particular poster, which you have made quite clear in the past through your remarks on certain people's threads. A moderator is somebody who moderates with an open mind, they do not let personal feelings enter into their decisions.
    A moderator also knows when something is offtopic, serves no purpose other than to instigate and knows when something is to be taken private.......as this should be. Drop it, now.

  20. #20

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    Default Re: Finding Common Tones

    slightly dissonant notes in here! before I really started thinking about the fascinating start, I feel challenged to analize what games are being played by the parties involved! unfortunately, not the only subject throttled to embarrassing silence at a very early stage - how sad!
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

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