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  1. #1

    Default czech and speake no. 88

    hi everyone, i have for the past year enjoyed all the postings on this forum without becoming a member. i have just jumped onboard. i read about the postings on adp and c&s no. 88 and i am considering having the no.88. however, i need some information on it. any help will be very much appreciated.

  2. #2

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    NO.88 is a fabulous choice btw!

    The company describe it as a sophisticated scent containing over 100 ingredients - rose otto, geranium & bergamot layered with the dry smokiness of vetiver & sandalwood. It is what you would expect an aristocrat to sport.

    Don't hesitate, get it if you can find it! [smiley=rolleyes.gif]
    Let your nose be your pilot

  3. #3

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    I've been dying to try this one also. Just ordered a decant from ebay. It's not cheap though. A 1/3 oz. decant was $25.

    Hope it's worth it! [smiley=undecided.gif]

  4. #4

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Be prepared for an incredibly heavy, "incensy" scent.

    I bought a decant too and could not handle it. Too heavy, too formal, just too.....too. It was almost like a novelty scent. I ended up giving mine away to someone in a swap.

    I'm in the minority, though, most guys love it. Hope you do too.

  5. #5

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    One of Tom Ford's favorites. That says enough...

  6. #6

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    While C & S No. 88 is a very nice scent, Floris No. 89, which, I believe, the C & S was copied from, is a lot better in my opinion. Floris also has more staying power and is less expensive.
    Given the choice, I'd go with the No. 89.
    Rick

  7. #7

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by gruffydd3
    While C & S No. 88 is a very nice scent, Floris No. 89, which, I believe, the C & S was copied from, is a lot better in my opinion. Floris also has more staying power and is less expensive.
    Given the choice, I'd go with the No. 89.
    Rick

    Ha, that's very interesting. When I sampled Floris - No. 89 I had to think immediately of Czech & Speake's No. 88 and that the name was referring to No. 89, just a bit "more below"! I have never read anything about it until now and I agree in terms of similarity to a certain point.

    I was on a concert recently wearing No. 88. It's not an everyday scent IMO, because it's way too heavy. I agree as well with the sillage, which is more an aura - kind of mystique. Still one of those scents that will get you attention!
    decant sales:
    Crystal Flacon

  8. #8

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Well Czech & Speake is at 88 Jermyn Street, Floris' is at 89 Jermyn Street. Hence the names.

    I

  9. #9

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    [blue]Thank you gentleman for pointing out the interesting similarities between the *Floris 89* and Czech & Speake *No. 88*. On reviewing their respect ingredient profiles, one finds there are, indeed, many similarities.

    There are however some major differences. *Floris 89* has jasmine in it, which gives it that heavy, civet-like note (it's the indole it shares with civet that does so). In this sense it is closer to Penhaligon's *Douro* a.k.a. *Lords*. What also further distinguishes *No. 88* from *Floris 89* are the following:

    It is not as citrusy as either of the two abovementioned name. As I noted in a recent post "If you're looking for an eau de cologne, predominantly citrus style accord, Czech and Speake *No. 88* couldn't be further from your search. Apart from the bergamot in the top notes, which disappears very quickly, there is little about this fragrance that is citrusy." There is a serious, prominent, and high quality Rose Otto note in *No. 88*, that is the heart of the fragrance. The rose note in Floris *89* is not as integral to the overall accord, nor does it have the same salience as in the overall accord as it does with *No. 88*.

    However, what really distinguishes *No. 88* from *Floris 89* is the thoroughly original and daring use of two little-used, even in women's perfumery, floral notes--cassie and frangipani. Again as I noted in an earlier review: "*No. 88* contains some of the following notes: Bergamot, Cassie, Frangipanni, Geranium, Rose Otto, Vetiver and Sandalwood. It has a soapy, floral, woodsy, slightly spicy quality to it. The floral notes are never dominant and the cassie, which is really the essential oil from the flowers of a shrub, gives it a unique floral-spicy, balsamic note that blends elegantly with the other notes. The frangipani, like the cassie, is not your usual monochromatic floral note. Itís has a weighty floral-green aroma, with a soft spicy edge to it that again blends tightly and elegantly with the Rose Otto and with the other ingredients. Itís very hard to describe this scent because itís put together so well, but you will certainly sense the quality and originality when you try it . . . Despite its containing some floral elements, it is a decidedly masculine scent and a very British one, I might add. In fact, itís so unique in its careful blended of ingredients--all natural absolutes and essential oils Czech & Speake claim--you could even call it unisex even though itís clearly marketed as a menís fragrance with an aftershave in the line. In my opinion, for what it's worth, and it's one I've come to slowly, this is probably one of the five greatest scents every produced.

    dr.creed wrote:
    I agree as well with the sillage, which is more an aura - kind of mystique.
    I couldnít agree with you more on this point dr.creed. I had put it this way: ďIt has a commanding sillage like no other fragrance I know. No sillage is the wrong word. It actually creates an aura around the wearer."

    Regards,

    scentemental[/blue]

  10. #10

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    [blue]Thank you gentleman for pointing out the interesting similarities between the *Floris 89* and Czech & Speake *No. 88*. On reviewing their respect ingredient profiles, one finds there are, indeed, many similarities.

    There are however some major differences. *Floris 89* has jasmine in it, which gives it that heavy, civet-like note (it's the indole it share with civet that does so). In this sense it is closer to Penhaligon's *Douro* a.k.a. *Lords*. What also further distinguishes *No. 88* from *Floris 89* are the following:

    It is not as citrusy as either of the two abovementioned name. As I noted in a recent post "If you're looking for an eau de cologne, predominantly citrus style accord, Czech and Speake *No. 88* couldn't be further from your search. Apart from the bergamot in the top notes, which disappears very quickly, there is little about this fragrance that is citrusy." There is a serious, prominent, and high quality Rose Otto note in *No. 88, that is the heart of the fragrance. The rose note in Floris *89* is not as integral to the overall accord, nor does it have the same salience as in the overall accord as it does with *No. 88*.

    However, what really distinguishes *No. 88* from *Floris 89* is the thoroughly original and daring use of two little-used, even in women's perfumery, floral notes--cassie and frangipani. Again as I noted in an earlier review: "*No. 88* contains some of the following notes: Bergamot, Cassie, Frangipanni, Geranium, Rose Otto, Vetiver and Sandalwood. It has a soapy, floral, woodsy, slightly spicy quality to it. The floral notes are never dominant and the cassie, which is really the essential oil from the flowers of a shrub, gives it a unique floral-spicy, balsamic note that blends elegantly with the other notes. The frangipani, like the cassie, is not your usual monochromatic floral note. Itís has a weighty floral-green aroma, with a soft spicy edge to it that again blends tightly and elegantly with the Rose Otto and with the other ingredients. Itís very hard to describe this scent because itís put together so well, but you will certainly sense the quality and originality when you try it . . . Despite its containing some floral elements, it is a decidedly masculine scent and a very British one, I might add. In fact, itís so unique in its careful blended of ingredients--all natural absolutes and essential oils Czech & Speake claim--you could even call it unisex even though itís clearly marketed as a menís fragrance with an aftershave in the line. In my opinion, for what it's worth, and it's one I've come to slowly, this is probably one of the five greatest scents every produced.

    dr.creed wrote:
    I agree as well with the sillage, which is more an aura - kind of mystique.
    I couldnít agree with you more on this point dr.creed. I had put it this way: ďIt has a commanding sillage like no other fragrance I know. No sillage is the wrong word. It actually creates an aura around the wearer."

    Regards,

    scentemental[/blue]
    Scentemental, I very much share your sentiment, afterall No.88 is my treasure island fragrance, I've said so much about this ethereal beauty in the past, but you've pushed the boat a bit further with your stunning review!

    No.88 vs No.89? *I've worn 89 before & it certainly lacks the ambience (need to push the "aura" word a bit further) that 88 reveals.

    No.88 is certainly one of the best fragrances ever to be made, hence my utmost respect for the Czech & Speake house...
    Let your nose be your pilot

  11. #11

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    [blue]Glad to be in such good company Magnnum. Thanks for the kind words.

    scentemental[/blue]

  12. #12

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    [blue]Glad to be in such good company Magnnum. Thanks for the kind words.

    scentemental[/blue]
    You're very welcome, no.88 will be our little dirty secret, we'll keep it on the down low...
    Let your nose be your pilot

  13. #13

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Scentemental, what are the other 4 greatest fragrances besides 88 in your opinion"
    Thx

  14. #14

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    How much? And where can I purchase No 88?

  15. #15

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Now I'm curious. I have a decant of No. 88 coming from ebay ... but you're really making me want to try Floris No. 89.

    I looked all over, including ebay, and can't seem to find it anywhere.

    Is this one of those "impossible to find" fragrances?

  16. #16

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Ziffy, for Floris 89, try florisoflondon.com under "Classics".

  17. #17

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by ziffy321
    Now I'm curious. I have a decant of No. 88 coming from ebay ... but you're really making me want to try Floris No. 89.

    I looked all over, including ebay, and can't seem to find it anywhere.

    Is this one of those "impossible to find" fragrances?

    Not impossible. But not cheap. Go to the source!

    http://www.czechspeake.com/
    Griff
    _____________________
    Follow me on FaceBook and Twitter
    And of course, eBay Radio

  18. #18

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    i have ordered one from www.czechspeake.com. £61 for 100ml.

  19. #19

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by tt
    i have ordered one from www.czechspeake.com. £61 for 100ml.

    [blue]tt,

    Are you located in the US, and if so, how much do they charge for shipping?

    Thanks,

    scentemental[/blue]

  20. #20

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Scentemental,

    I am in the uk. a lady i spoke to at czeck and speake said it will be delivered within 3-5 days. shipping within uk is free

  21. #21

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    OK ... so what about the Floris No. 89? I can't seem to locate even decants of that anywhere.

    Any info on that one maybe???

    Please???

  22. #22
    Yvan
    Guest

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    I just got a sample of No. 88, I've had it on nearly an hour, and it hasn't really worked its magic yet. I sprayed it on, then noticed a light scent of some nice floral and woody notes, including what I think was the frangipani (like the scent of marzipan?), but after only a few minutes, it's like the scent just disappeared. I think it's coming out a little bit now, but it's really close to the skin, even though I sprayed plenty on. I think maybe it doesn't work with my skin chemistry, but if it doesn't emerge more, I'll still test it at least one more time. I wonder if anyone else has had this experience, either with this one or another scent, where it kind of "disappears" on you.

  23. #23

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by Griff
    [quote author=ziffy321 link=1123397655/0#14 date=1123547686]Now I'm curious. *I have a decant of No. 88 coming from ebay ... but you're really making me want to try Floris No. 89.

    I looked all over, including ebay, and can't seem to find it anywhere.

    Is this one of those "impossible to find" fragrances?

    Not impossible. But not cheap. Go to the source!

    http://www.czechspeake.com/[/quote]

    I guess if you have the cash, very few things are impossible! [smiley=wink.gif]
    Are you not entertained??? Is this not why you are here??

  24. #24
    Yvan
    Guest

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    About two hours after putting it on, my sample finally kicked into gear; I've never had it take that long before a scent emerged. When it did, it stayed close to the skin, but it was rich, with a combination of notes that were floral, woody, musky, incense-like, slightly dessert-like (marzipan, I guess) and with some sweetness. I also noticed a note that's pretty similar to one I noticed in Nino Cerruti pour Homme that's mainly resinous but slightly herbal; I don't know what that would've been. I'm glad I got that much out of it, and will try it again another time. It's a pretty fine scent, but I guess it doesn't work as well on me as on other people, but that's life.

  25. #25

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    I've been growing more curious about this scent of late, owing to the endorsements given to it by many of you (and Ozzy of course!). This thread is very useful.

    Can anyone clarify:

    Whether it's available in an EDT version, or is it only cologne?

    How long the cologne version lasts (I realise this is subjective, but generally speaking)?

    Finally, is it available anywhere (in the UK) other than the official outlet?

    Many thanks.


  26. #26

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Ziffy,
    The only place I know to get No. 898 is from Floris. It's on their website under the classics section.
    Rick

  27. #27

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    May I add that the shower gel is an absolute stunner also......it would be interesting to here if anyone has gone for the 'full monty layering' and used shaving cream / shower gel and cologne!!!!!!

  28. #28

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballardbeau
    Be prepared for an incredibly heavy, "incensy" scent.

    I bought a decant too and could not handle it. Too heavy, too formal, just too.....too. It was almost like a novelty scent. I ended up giving mine away to someone in a swap.

    I'm in the minority, though, most guys love it. Hope you do too.

    I agree with Ballardbeau on this, although we seem to be very much in the minority here. C&S's #88's charms have never worked for me. I've sampled it several times, but find it unwearable. It always feels too cluttered and messy to me. And I have to admit, I just don't like the way it smells. It's all well and good for a fragrance - like #88 - to have a couple of hundred of ingredients, but the ultimate test for a user comes down to what I call the "global" test of a fragrance: Overall, do you like the way it smells? Here, I have to answer "Nay", not "Yeah".



  29. #29

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by verve


    I agree with Ballardbequ on this, although we seem to be very much in the minority here. * C&S's #88's charms have never worked for me. *I've sampled it several times, but find it unwearable. * It always feels too cluttered and messy to me. * And I have to admit, I just don't like the way it smells. *It's all well and good for a fragrance - like #88 - to have a couple of hundred of ingredients, but the ultimate test for a user comes down to what I call the "global" test of a fragrance: *Overall, do you like the way it smells? * Here, I have to answer "Nay", not "Yeah". * *
    I'm with you guys as another "non fan" of this one. #88 was probably my most anticipated fragrance here since I joined Basenotes. I heard such great things about it ... but couldn't find it anywhere! I looked and looked and finally found a seller on ebay who had decants. When I received it in the mail, my anticipation of the "WOW" factor quickly turned to a "WTF?" factor. To me, it smells like ... what I call ... the fourth degree of a cologne. After the top, middle, and drydown of a scent (the first 3 degrees), the fourth is kinda that "after stink" when the fragrance is completely gone, but you smell your skin and you know SOMETHING was there. Usually a bitter, somewhat rancid smell. Many of the better ones don't give you that degree, but some of my older ones (Versace L'Homme, Burberry Weekend, Drakkar) definitely used to give it to you big time ... usually the next morning, making me run into the bathroom and shower immediately.

    I'm not saying #88 is a stinker, but that is what it's reminiscent of to me. I really, really tried hard to like this one ... completely going through my 1/3 oz. decant of it. But sadly, it didn't happen and ain't gonna happen.

    I gave it my best shot though!

  30. #30

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    It's been great reading everybody's impressions of this very different scent! Scentemental's excellent review really helped in deciphering this complex fragrance!

    Whenever I sample 88 I find myself agreeing with Ballardbeau that it's heavy and oppressive to an almost unbearable degree, BUT that there's also something equally compelling about it that keeps pulling me back to it.

    If fragrances can be "manic/depressive", then 88 must be number one in that category ... the bright, sunny bergamot coupled with that brooding, powdery rose is so inspired ... really a hallmark that I haven't found in any other fragrance ... perhaps it's this that I find so compelling about 88. I'm not one to often think about fragrances in terms of colors, but with 88 perhaps it's apt: the bergamot being a piercing, brilliant yellow while the rose comes across as a very muted, dusky violet.

    Interesting to read from Yvan that he finds 88 close to the skin and muted ... 88 is one that just seems to leap from the bottle and go straight for the throat (or the nostrils, whatever the case may be!) I don't get anything close to a marzipan note ...

    88 really deserves to be sampled by everyone, too bad it's so difficult to get a hold of.
    ..."net", not "naut".

  31. #31

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by stoneskipper
    It's been great reading everybody's impressions of this very different scent! Scentemental's excellent review really helped in deciphering this complex fragrance!

    Whenever I sample 88 I find myself agreeing with Ballardbeau that it's heavy and oppressive to an almost unbearable degree, BUT that there's also something equally compelling about it that keeps pulling me back to it.

    If fragrances can be "manic/depressive", then 88 must be number one in that category ... the bright, sunny bergamot coupled with that brooding, powdery rose is so inspired ... really a hallmark that I haven't found in any other fragrance ... perhaps it's this that I find so compelling about 88. I'm not one to often think about fragrances in terms of colors, but with 88 perhaps it's apt: the bergamot being a piercing, brilliant yellow while the rose comes across as a very muted, dusky violet.

    Interesting to read from Yvan that he finds 88 close to the skin and muted ... 88 is one that just seems to leap from the bottle and go straight for the throat (or the nostrils, whatever the case may be!) I don't get anything close to a marzipan note ...

    88 really deserves to be sampled by everyone, too bad it's so difficult to get a hold of.

    [blue]Really excellent posts everyone and a particularly excellent post Stoneskipper. I am in total agreement with all you write and especially with your last point.

    I just wanted to add an updated review of *No. 88* in which I include, among other reflections, some thoughts on the prominence and importance of the sandalwood note in this masterpiece of the perfumer's art:

    *No. 88* is Czech & Speakeís flagship scent. Itís complex, has real body, and presence, and thereís nothing else like it. Itís based on an old Elizabethan recipe that has been updated. I think itís a benchmark scent. It has a commanding sillage like no other fragrance I know. No sillage is the wrong word. It actually creates an aura around the wearer. It reeks of elegance, quality, and assuredness.

    *No. 88* contains some of the following notes: Bergamot, Cassie, Frangipanni, Geranium, Rose Otto, Vetiver and Sandalwood. It has a soapy, floral, woodsy, slightly spicy quality to it. (As my friend Vicomte de K once astutely pointed out, Geranium in combination with Sandalwood is usually responsible for the soap note in many scents.) The floral notes are never dominatant and the cassie, which is really the essential oil from the flowers of a shrub, gives it a unique floral-spicy, balsamic note that blends elegantly with the other notes. The frangipani, like the cassie, is not your usual monochromatic floral note. Itís has a weighty floral-green aroma, with a soft spicy edge to it that again blends tightly and elgantly with the Rose Otto and sandalwood, both of which give the accord real presence and hold it together with an unmistakable aura that this is a commanding scent made unapologetically with the finest ingredients. The sandalwood is real; that is, itís pure and natural; none of your thin, shrill, manufactured, one-dimensional simulacrum sandalwood note here; itís weighty, full-bodied, and persistently aromatic with that slightly turpeny note of the purest and highest quality sandalwood oil that gives it an organic, almost dirty rose, non-animalic animalic woodsy and richly resinous and balsamic edge that hangs in the air like gloom. The perfumer of *No. 88*, Shirley Brody, knows what subcontinental Indians have known for thousands of years: namely, that the combination of the highest quality pure Rose Otto and pure Sandalwood oils is an elemental olfactory experience beyond compare. This is the heart of the fragrance, and there's nothing like it on the market.

    The fact that Czech & Speake *No. 88* uses 3 florals rarely found in such proportions or in such a combination in men's fragrances: Rose Otto, Frangipani, and Cassie is also a testament to its originality. Of course, all the florals are bound and integrated into the overall accord with the use of a richly resinous and balsamic sandalwood, but then so are many florals in the great women's fragrances of the past. *No. 88* has the architectonic structure of a womenís perfume, and despite its containing some floral elements, it still manages to remain a masculine scent and a very British one at that, I might add. In fact, itís so unique; itís such a work of art, that it goes beyond gender. Perhaps it even incorporates gender distinctions and make them irrelevant. I think of it as unisex even though itís clearly marketed as a menís fragrance with an aftershave in the line. In my opionion, for what it's worth, and it's one I've come to slowly, this is probably one of the five greatest scents every produced. If there was ever a "real classic", this is it.

    I wouldn't expect everyone to take to this fragrance immediately. I didn't. Like anything complex and unique, we have to come to terms such qualities. They're not always immediately palpable or even easily appreciated.

    scentemental[/blue]






  32. #32

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Here's a self-aggrandising post if there ever was one.

    This is a great thread on No.88--several sides, several interpretations, and several different extremely thoughtful reactions. I just can't not get involved!

    Three years ago I posted the following review on another No.88 thread, one that Ruslan started. Thanks to another member, Christian, I had a sample of No.88 and Christian and I traded messages off board about our thougths on this fragrance. On the basis of that discussion, I wrote Ruslan's thread the following review. I beg all who have read it before to forgive me.
    --Chris

    Ruslan,
    Iím glad you asked about Czech & Speakeís No.88 yesterdayóit happens that Christian and I are trading messages trying to figure out this scent, what it is like, and even if we like it, on our own.

    I said it makes me feel mean because I think the scent is really austere, and has no warmth, invitation, charm, or friendliness to it. It is very distinct, and does not smell BAD at all, but it is one that I think sets a hostile aura. In that way it is a really nice piece of perfumery art. It succeeds as a decent thing to smell, but it is stripped of happy warm associations and Proustian moments.

    The scent is very dry and lemony. Very medicinal, and almost rubbing alcohol harsh. I searched Basenotes to see if I could find the year of its creation (canít), but I would place it in a category with Aqua di Parma. No.88ís vision of what a man is and what a man should smell like is of the same genre as AdP, although the two do not smell alike. Modifications of the effervescent Eau de Cologne scents of the 19th century (I think of Guerlainís Imperial and Eau de Cologne or Eau de Guerlain, canít remember which it is), these scents just seek to make you smell freshly washed, well trimmed, and professionally manicured. They arenít dandy like scents, especially not No.88. It seems to be cleanliness and a sneer in a bottle.

    Going back and forth with Christian about this, I told him I thought the scent was simply scary. Then he reminded me of how in an earlier message he had said No.88 made him think of a medieval castle fortress. I had forgotten this reference of his when I was starting to think of the scent as scaryóthat is an indication of how we both had similar instincts based on the scent. Christian said he thought that is probably why Ozzy wears it.

    Stoney and cold is dead on the money about this stuff, I say. It hits the nose like touching a rock in medium-to-cold weather. A rock feels colder than the air temperature because it leeches out the warmth of your fingers touching it or something, and that is how No.88 works in the nose. You get the feeling of draftiness all around you. At one point in my notes on it I said it was like smelling the vapors over a pitcher of extremely cold ice-filled ice water outside on a cold day. Sometimes wearing No.88 is like being forced to drink that pitcher all at once too.

    In contrast to other dark Goth crypt-like scents--Passage díEnfer, Messe de Minuit (Iíve not smelled this one and thus guess at what follows), Halston 1-12--there is no burning incense or devotional candles to enliven or enchant this one. Not even the humid, vegetal, warmth of decay and closeness to the earth that seeps through stony cracks in sewers and church basements.

    I have still tried to find a note of warmth in it, a note of tenderness and hints of get-close-to-me-and-be-my-special-one in No.88, but I really canít. I think there is a middle note of faint cinnamon which would qualify, but I often mistake ingredients in scents so it probably isnít cinnamon. The hint is so subtle that for me it really suggests its absence instead of its presence. I truly donít see this scent as being a sexy scent in any way shape or usage. Ainít no cuddling going to go on on No.88ís account. Simply no way.

    Another austere scent that I had to think about while wearing No.88 around is Van Cleef & Arpelsís Tsar. Tsar is very stand alone, solid, cold like frozen metal railings in the winter that your friends tried to make you lick, but I like Tsar a lot and think it is very fun to smell. No.88 doesnít have the same charm.

    Wearing it yesterday I put this note down, thinking of what to write to Christian:
    ďDonít see it as attractive. Not something to bring in women. Unless gangster molls, who have to flatter the macho man and have that self-imposed Iím-weak-in-the-knees-looking-at-you hired sort of look.Ē Instead I wrote Christian that if youíre going to wear No.88 to work you had better be the boss in the office.

    No.88 is a gunrunnerís fragrance. Underworld powerful and stereotypically powerful gentlemanly in the sense of aspirations to power without lessons in charm and charisma. There is a character in Robert Penn Warrenís book All the Kings Men, who would be wearing No.88 I think. In the story there is a pool hall owner, a rough guy who has never had an entree into society but suddenly he has to somehow make an approach to a politically active doctor and get him to stop some city action or something. The doctor lives all the graces of society and is ennobled by the depth of his education. So the pool hall owner hires a guy who hangs out smoking in his pool hall to go see the doctor. The guy he hires is a rough and tumble guy, but one who styles himself as a ďgentleman,Ē wearing good suits, worrying about keeping the creases in his pants, and always with shiny shoes and a clean haircut. Warren even writes that the rumor was that this pool hall gentleman had his initials sewn into his silk boxer shorts. This guy is the pool hall ownerís image of a gentleman and thus he hires him to go see the doctor and bond with him gentleman-to-gentleman style. I think that is how the story went. Naturally the plan doesnít workóthe doctor throws the pool hall smoker gentleman out his door. My point is this pool hall gentleman would be wearing No.88.

    Not a favorable review, I guess. I know there are people on this forum who like No.88 a lot, including my friends Christian and John. John wrote an up-thumb review of it on its page even, saying it reminds him of lemony furniture oil. The problem for me is that I donít think No.88 is bad, fake, or anything to regret wearing. Iíve even liked wearing it. I like it because it has the flavor of the rise of modernity for me. This is that early 20th century gentlemanly quality it has. It smells like soaps, scented powders, scented hair-tonic, scented brushes, a whole scented travel kit for the gentleman flying on the Pan Am Clipper to Asia. It reminds me of large porcelain sinks in old airport terminalsódesigned to be places where men would do all their toiletries during long journeys by propeller airplanes. It reminds me of hard bars of soap that crack down their length and take elbow grease to get into a lather. No.88 reminds me of pumice stones.

    In a sense this is a throwback to the Victorian era and its idea of the White Manís burden. I took another note wearing it yesterday: ďPumice stone. Hard & cracked type of soap. What one would wear off to charm the South China Sea. Pan Am Clipper voyageurs. Dress for dinner. Conradís Lord Jim-esque gentlemen waited on in clubs by natives. White-manís burden and make money by gunrunning scent. A scent for scoundrels.Ē

    Believe me, I keep trying to say something good about this, but the rascally images keep their grip on my brain. It was fun wearing No.88 yesterday, especially walking around thinking I was a walking pitcher of ice wateróif anyone smelled me too much they would get brain freeze!

    The scent does not change much in the course of wearing it, and lasts a really healthy long time. Sorry this is such a long review filled with mixed metaphores and references! It sure has been fun to write. I thank Christian for all the fun and back and forth trying to figure this potion out.

    Regards,
    --Chris.
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  33. #33

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by DustB
    Here's a self-aggrandising post if there ever was one.

    This is a great thread on No.88--several sides, several interpretations, and several different extremely thoughtful reactions. *I just can't not get involved!

    Three years ago I posted the following review on another No.88 thread, one that Ruslan started. *Thanks to another member, Christian, I had a sample of No.88 and Christian and I traded messages off board about our thougths on this fragrance. *On the basis of that discussion, I wrote Ruslan's thread the following review. *I beg all who have read it before to forgive me.
    --Chris

    Ruslan,
    Iím glad you asked about Czech & Speakeís No.88 yesterdayóit happens that Christian and I are trading messages trying to figure out this scent, what it is like, and even if we like it, on our own. *

    I said it makes me feel mean because I think the scent is really austere, and has no warmth, invitation, charm, or friendliness to it. *It is very distinct, and does not smell BAD at all, but it is one that I think sets a hostile aura. *In that way it is a really nice piece of perfumery art. *It succeeds as a decent thing to smell, but it is stripped of happy warm associations and Proustian moments.

    The scent is very dry and lemony. *Very medicinal, and almost rubbing alcohol harsh. *I searched Basenotes to see if I could find the year of its creation (canít), but I would place it in a category with Aqua di Parma. *No.88ís vision of what a man is and what a man should smell like is of the same genre as AdP, although the two do not smell alike. *Modifications of the effervescent Eau de Cologne scents of the 19th century (I think of Guerlainís Imperial and Eau de Cologne or Eau de Guerlain, canít remember which it is), these scents just seek to make you smell freshly washed, well trimmed, and professionally manicured. *They arenít dandy like scents, especially not No.88. *It seems to be cleanliness and a sneer in a bottle.

    Going back and forth with Christian about this, I told him I thought the scent was simply scary. *Then he reminded me of how in an earlier message he had said No.88 made him think of a medieval castle fortress. *I had forgotten this reference of his when I was starting to think of the scent as scaryóthat is an indication of how we both had similar instincts based on the scent. *Christian said he thought that is probably why Ozzy wears it. *

    Stoney and cold is dead on the money about this stuff, I say. *It hits the nose like touching a rock in medium-to-cold weather. *A rock feels colder than the air temperature because it leeches out the warmth of your fingers touching it or something, and that is how No.88 works in the nose. *You get the feeling of draftiness all around you. *At one point in my notes on it I said it was like smelling the vapors over a pitcher of extremely cold ice-filled ice water outside on a cold day. *Sometimes wearing No.88 is like being forced to drink that pitcher all at once too. *

    In contrast to other dark Goth crypt-like scents--Passage díEnfer, Messe de Minuit (Iíve not smelled this one and thus guess at what follows), Halston 1-12--there is no burning incense or devotional candles to enliven or enchant this one. *Not even the humid, vegetal, warmth of decay and closeness to the earth that seeps through stony cracks in sewers and church basements.

    I have still tried to find a note of warmth in it, a note of tenderness and hints of get-close-to-me-and-be-my-special-one in No.88, but I really canít. *I think there is a middle note of faint cinnamon which would qualify, but I often mistake ingredients in scents so it probably isnít cinnamon. *The hint is so subtle that for me it really suggests its absence instead of its presence. *I truly donít see this scent as being a sexy scent in any way shape or usage. *Ainít no cuddling going to go on on No.88ís account. *Simply no way.

    Another austere scent that I had to think about while wearing No.88 around is Van Cleef & Arpelsís Tsar. *Tsar is very stand alone, solid, cold like frozen metal railings in the winter that your friends tried to make you lick, but I like Tsar a lot and think it is very fun to smell. *No.88 doesnít have the same charm. *

    Wearing it yesterday I put this note down, thinking of what to write to Christian:
    ďDonít see it as attractive. *Not something to bring in women. *Unless gangster molls, who have to flatter the macho man and have that self-imposed Iím-weak-in-the-knees-looking-at-you hired sort of look.Ē *Instead I wrote Christian that if youíre going to wear No.88 to work you had better be the boss in the office. *

    No.88 is a gunrunnerís fragrance. *Underworld powerful and stereotypically powerful gentlemanly in the sense of aspirations to power without lessons in charm and charisma. *There is a character in Robert Penn Warrenís book All the Kings Men, who would be wearing No.88 I think. *In the story there is a pool hall owner, a rough guy who has never had an entree into society but suddenly he has to somehow make an approach to a politically active doctor and get him to stop some city action or something. *The doctor lives all the graces of society and is ennobled by the depth of his education. *So the pool hall owner hires a guy who hangs out smoking in his pool hall to go see the doctor. *The guy he hires is a rough and tumble guy, but one who styles himself as a ďgentleman,Ē wearing good suits, worrying about keeping the creases in his pants, and always with shiny shoes and a clean haircut. *Warren even writes that the rumor was that this pool hall gentleman had his initials sewn into his silk boxer shorts. *This guy is the pool hall ownerís image of a gentleman and thus he hires him to go see the doctor and bond with him gentleman-to-gentleman style. *I think that is how the story went. *Naturally the plan doesnít workóthe doctor throws the pool hall smoker gentleman out his door. *My point is this pool hall gentleman would be wearing No.88. *

    Not a favorable review, I guess. *I know there are people on this forum who like No.88 a lot, including my friends Christian and John. *John wrote an up-thumb review of it on its page even, saying it reminds him of lemony furniture oil. *The problem for me is that I donít think No.88 is bad, fake, or anything to regret wearing. *Iíve even liked wearing it. *I like it because it has the flavor of the rise of modernity for me. *This is that early 20th century gentlemanly quality it has. *It smells like soaps, scented powders, scented hair-tonic, scented brushes, a whole scented travel kit for the gentleman flying on the Pan Am Clipper to Asia. *It reminds me of large porcelain sinks in old airport terminalsódesigned to be places where men would do all their toiletries during long journeys by propeller airplanes. *It reminds me of hard bars of soap that crack down their length and take elbow grease to get into a lather. *No.88 reminds me of pumice stones. *

    In a sense this is a throwback to the Victorian era and its idea of the White Manís burden. *I took another note wearing it yesterday: ďPumice stone. *Hard & cracked type of soap. *What one would wear off to charm the South China Sea. *Pan Am Clipper voyageurs. *Dress for dinner. *Conradís Lord Jim-esque gentlemen waited on in clubs by natives. *White-manís burden and make money by gunrunning scent. *A scent for scoundrels.Ē

    Believe me, I keep trying to say something good about this, but the rascally images keep their grip on my brain. *It was fun wearing No.88 yesterday, especially walking around thinking I was a walking pitcher of ice wateróif anyone smelled me too much they would get brain freeze! *

    The scent does not change much in the course of wearing it, and lasts a really healthy long time. *Sorry this is such a long review filled with mixed metaphores and references! *It sure has been fun to write. *I thank Christian for all the fun and back and forth trying to figure this potion out.

    Regards,
    --Chris.
    Chris, it was a joy to read your thoughts, I can't quite fathom gangsters wearing this, however I'm inclined to agree that scoundrels, cads or even rakish men might consider sporting this fragrance, No.88 is so unique that it can make one conjure different images in ones head...
    Let your nose be your pilot

  34. #34

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    [blue]Wow Chris, magnificent response; a real pleasure to read.

    I wonder what kind of post it would have been if you liked the fragrance. Ironic isn't is that sometimes more interesting responses are produced by ambiguous or antithetical feelings. Quality writing. Many thanks my friend for the verbal joy ride. It was a lot of fun.

    Regards,

    scentemental[/blue]




  35. #35

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    This is such a great thread! If there was a library with soon-to-be-classique-threads I would beg the moderators to stick this one in there. Thanks a lot guys! I'm bookmarking this one for future reference.

  36. #36

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    I vote No. 88 as the No. 1 "widest spectrum of opinions" fragrance here on Basenotes.

  37. #37

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    I think a certain Mr Mugler may have something to say about that.

  38. #38

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante
    I think a certain Mr Mugler may have something to say about that.
    Gives me an idea for a new poll ...

    What's the most controversial fragrance on Basenotes ... Hmm ....

  39. #39
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Pacific Northwest
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    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    One of the most satisfying and consistently wearable fragrances I own.
    Last edited by pluran; 21st April 2007 at 05:39 PM.
    "You have to paint things black if you want to make future possibilities more vivid."
    - Michel Foucault

    The entire universe is based upon your ability to conclude the new idea which is the summoning forth of the new life into the new space.

    Man, this site has really gone to shit. Seems like every person who knew anything about perfume has left the building, and I can see why.



  40. #40

    Default Re: czech and speake no. 88

    Quote Originally Posted by DustB
    Here's a self-aggrandising post if there ever was one.

    This is a great thread on No.88--several sides, several interpretations, and several different extremely thoughtful reactions. *I just can't not get involved!

    Three years ago I posted the following review on another No.88 thread, one that Ruslan started. *Thanks to another member, Christian, I had a sample of No.88 and Christian and I traded messages off board about our thougths on this fragrance. *On the basis of that discussion, I wrote Ruslan's thread the following review. *I beg all who have read it before to forgive me.
    --Chris

    Ruslan,
    Iím glad you asked about Czech & Speakeís No.88 yesterdayóit happens that Christian and I are trading messages trying to figure out this scent, what it is like, and even if we like it, on our own. *

    I said it makes me feel mean because I think the scent is really austere, and has no warmth, invitation, charm, or friendliness to it. *It is very distinct, and does not smell BAD at all, but it is one that I think sets a hostile aura. *In that way it is a really nice piece of perfumery art. *It succeeds as a decent thing to smell, but it is stripped of happy warm associations and Proustian moments.

    The scent is very dry and lemony. *Very medicinal, and almost rubbing alcohol harsh. *I searched Basenotes to see if I could find the year of its creation (canít), but I would place it in a category with Aqua di Parma. *No.88ís vision of what a man is and what a man should smell like is of the same genre as AdP, although the two do not smell alike. *Modifications of the effervescent Eau de Cologne scents of the 19th century (I think of Guerlainís Imperial and Eau de Cologne or Eau de Guerlain, canít remember which it is), these scents just seek to make you smell freshly washed, well trimmed, and professionally manicured. *They arenít dandy like scents, especially not No.88. *It seems to be cleanliness and a sneer in a bottle.

    Going back and forth with Christian about this, I told him I thought the scent was simply scary. *Then he reminded me of how in an earlier message he had said No.88 made him think of a medieval castle fortress. *I had forgotten this reference of his when I was starting to think of the scent as scaryóthat is an indication of how we both had similar instincts based on the scent. *Christian said he thought that is probably why Ozzy wears it. *

    Stoney and cold is dead on the money about this stuff, I say. *It hits the nose like touching a rock in medium-to-cold weather. *A rock feels colder than the air temperature because it leeches out the warmth of your fingers touching it or something, and that is how No.88 works in the nose. *You get the feeling of draftiness all around you. *At one point in my notes on it I said it was like smelling the vapors over a pitcher of extremely cold ice-filled ice water outside on a cold day. *Sometimes wearing No.88 is like being forced to drink that pitcher all at once too. *

    In contrast to other dark Goth crypt-like scents--Passage díEnfer, Messe de Minuit (Iíve not smelled this one and thus guess at what follows), Halston 1-12--there is no burning incense or devotional candles to enliven or enchant this one. *Not even the humid, vegetal, warmth of decay and closeness to the earth that seeps through stony cracks in sewers and church basements.

    I have still tried to find a note of warmth in it, a note of tenderness and hints of get-close-to-me-and-be-my-special-one in No.88, but I really canít. *I think there is a middle note of faint cinnamon which would qualify, but I often mistake ingredients in scents so it probably isnít cinnamon. *The hint is so subtle that for me it really suggests its absence instead of its presence. *I truly donít see this scent as being a sexy scent in any way shape or usage. *Ainít no cuddling going to go on on No.88ís account. *Simply no way.

    Another austere scent that I had to think about while wearing No.88 around is Van Cleef & Arpelsís Tsar. *Tsar is very stand alone, solid, cold like frozen metal railings in the winter that your friends tried to make you lick, but I like Tsar a lot and think it is very fun to smell. *No.88 doesnít have the same charm. *

    Wearing it yesterday I put this note down, thinking of what to write to Christian:
    ďDonít see it as attractive. *Not something to bring in women. *Unless gangster molls, who have to flatter the macho man and have that self-imposed Iím-weak-in-the-knees-looking-at-you hired sort of look.Ē *Instead I wrote Christian that if youíre going to wear No.88 to work you had better be the boss in the office. *

    No.88 is a gunrunnerís fragrance. *Underworld powerful and stereotypically powerful gentlemanly in the sense of aspirations to power without lessons in charm and charisma. *There is a character in Robert Penn Warrenís book All the Kings Men, who would be wearing No.88 I think. *In the story there is a pool hall owner, a rough guy who has never had an entree into society but suddenly he has to somehow make an approach to a politically active doctor and get him to stop some city action or something. *The doctor lives all the graces of society and is ennobled by the depth of his education. *So the pool hall owner hires a guy who hangs out smoking in his pool hall to go see the doctor. *The guy he hires is a rough and tumble guy, but one who styles himself as a ďgentleman,Ē wearing good suits, worrying about keeping the creases in his pants, and always with shiny shoes and a clean haircut. *Warren even writes that the rumor was that this pool hall gentleman had his initials sewn into his silk boxer shorts. *This guy is the pool hall ownerís image of a gentleman and thus he hires him to go see the doctor and bond with him gentleman-to-gentleman style. *I think that is how the story went. *Naturally the plan doesnít workóthe doctor throws the pool hall smoker gentleman out his door. *My point is this pool hall gentleman would be wearing No.88. *

    Not a favorable review, I guess. *I know there are people on this forum who like No.88 a lot, including my friends Christian and John. *John wrote an up-thumb review of it on its page even, saying it reminds him of lemony furniture oil. *The problem for me is that I donít think No.88 is bad, fake, or anything to regret wearing. *Iíve even liked wearing it. *I like it because it has the flavor of the rise of modernity for me. *This is that early 20th century gentlemanly quality it has. *It smells like soaps, scented powders, scented hair-tonic, scented brushes, a whole scented travel kit for the gentleman flying on the Pan Am Clipper to Asia. *It reminds me of large porcelain sinks in old airport terminalsódesigned to be places where men would do all their toiletries during long journeys by propeller airplanes. *It reminds me of hard bars of soap that crack down their length and take elbow grease to get into a lather. *No.88 reminds me of pumice stones. *

    In a sense this is a throwback to the Victorian era and its idea of the White Manís burden. *I took another note wearing it yesterday: ďPumice stone. *Hard & cracked type of soap. *What one would wear off to charm the South China Sea. *Pan Am Clipper voyageurs. *Dress for dinner. *Conradís Lord Jim-esque gentlemen waited on in clubs by natives. *White-manís burden and make money by gunrunning scent. *A scent for scoundrels.Ē

    Believe me, I keep trying to say something good about this, but the rascally images keep their grip on my brain. *It was fun wearing No.88 yesterday, especially walking around thinking I was a walking pitcher of ice wateróif anyone smelled me too much they would get brain freeze! *

    The scent does not change much in the course of wearing it, and lasts a really healthy long time. *Sorry this is such a long review filled with mixed metaphores and references! *It sure has been fun to write. *I thank Christian for all the fun and back and forth trying to figure this potion out.

    Regards,
    --Chris.
    chris what an epic review it reads like you've been on the mind expanding recreational stimulants for sure work that vocabulary man.

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