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Thread: Geranium?

  1. #1

    Default Geranium?

    I've noticed that quite a number of men's and women's fragrances seem to contain geranium as one of their notes. Does anyone know what specific plant is used when they say geranium? Is it a true geranium or are they talking about a scented pelargonium?

    Thanks.

    Herb Lady

  2. #2

    Default Re: Geranium?

    I thought the Geranium refered to in perfumes was Rose geranium which gives a rosy minty smell. It was a fixture in the Victorian era and can be rightly refered to as "Old smelling". Some googling tells me that Rose Geranium is a --

    "A woody plant (Pelargonium graveolens) having rose-pink flowers and fragrant, deeply palmately lobed leaves used for flavoring and in perfumery."
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  3. #3
    foetidus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Geranium?

    I think Concord was the expert on this (haven't heard from him lately)

    Geranium, I believe he said, can be from many different geranium types (you know the names) and usually does not refer to the flower but to the plant. I'm sorry, I'm really messing this up. Maybe use the search function and see if you can find what he said about geranium. I can't my internet is going off in two minutes.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Geranium?

    [blue]


    As far as I know, there are hundreds of different varieties of cultivated geraniums but only a handful which produce essential oil suitable for perfumery. The species from which geranium essential oil is mainly distilled for commercial use is Pelargonium graveolens, from the Geraniaceae family, otherwise known as "rose geranium" or "pelargonium". At least two other species produce commercially viable essential oil, Pelargonium radens and Pelargonium odorantissimum, but, again, most of the world's geranium essential oil production is derived from Pelargonium graveolens.

    I am not familiar with the term “scented pelargonium” as it applies to a specific plant, but to me, it sounds like they are one and the same thing. Basically, the Latin Pelargonium graveolens means fragrant/scented pelargonium.

    Geraniums are grown all over the world and the essential oil differs quite substantially given that geraniums more so than other plants are especially vulnerable to the vagaries of climate and soil. Although there are many grades of geranium oil used for all kinds of perfumery needs and even for food flavoring, the superior one and the one sought after by high-end perfumers is the one produced on the island of Réunion in the Indian Ocean, east of Madagascar and known as Bourbon geranium. Geranium essential oil is typically distilled from the leaves, stalks, and flowers of the entire plant with most of the oil yield coming from the leaves. Bourbon geranium essential oil is considered superior for two reasons: first of all, because it approximates the complex scent profile of roses very closely and second because it has an incisive clarion green minty sharpness to it that enables it to blend with and modify other prominent notes in fragrances to great effect. It blends particularly well with citrus notes and with basenotes like sandalwood and patchouli, making it a very valuable ingredient in fragrance blends tying as it does into an accord both top notes and basenotes. Furthermore, it blends exceedingly well with rose since it shares many of the same aroma chemical constituents of rose oil, namely geraniol, citronellol, and linalol. It’s is often used to extend and bolster the “rose” note in fragrances in many cases where there is little natural rose oil present.

    Perhaps the most masterful example of where all of these qualities of geranium come together is Aramis 900:

    http://www.basenotes.net/community/Y...1146377840/6#6


    scentemental[/blue]


    [red]P.S. Another masterful use of geranium, in this case in conjuction with rose and sandalwood, can be seen in Czech & Speake's *No. 88.[/red]



  5. #5

    Default Re: Geranium?

    A green-floral component that seems to be in all of my favorite fougeres/chypres.

    Add carnation, patchouli, and or oakmoss, and you've got one heckuva masculine scent.
    *********************



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  6. #6

    Default Re: Geranium?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    [blue]


    As far as I know, there are hundreds of different varieties of cultivated geraniums but only a handful which produce essential oil suitable for perfumery. The species from which geranium essential oil is mainly distilled for commercial use is Pelargonium graveolens, from the Geraniaceae family, otherwise known as "rose geranium" or "pelargonium". At least two other species produce commercially viable essential oil, Pelargonium radens and Pelargonium odorantissimum, but, again, most of the world's geranium essential oil production is derived from Pelargonium graveolens.

    I am not familiar with the term “scented pelargonium” as it applies to a specific plant, but to me, it sounds like they are one and the same thing. Basically, the Latin Pelargonium graveolens means fragrant/scented pelargonium.

    Geraniums are grown all over the world and the essential oil differs quite substantially given that geraniums more so than other plants are especially vulnerable to the vagaries of climate and soil. Although there are many grades of geranium oil used for all kinds of perfumery needs and even for food flavoring, the superior one and the one sought after by high-end perfumers is the one produced on the island of Réunion in the Indian Ocean, east of Madagascar and known as Bourbon geranium. Geranium essential oil is typically distilled from the leaves, stalks, and flowers of the entire plant with most of the oil yield coming from the leaves. Bourbon geranium essential oil is considered superior for two reasons: first of all, because it approximates the complex scent profile of roses very closely and second because it has an incisive clarion green minty sharpness to it that enables it to blend with and modify other prominent notes in fragrances to great effect. It blends particularly well with citrus notes and with basenotes like sandalwood and patchouli, making it a very valuable ingredient in fragrance blends tying as it does into an accord both top notes and basenotes. Furthermore, it blends exceedingly well with rose since it shares many of the same aroma chemical constituents of rose oil, namely geraniol, citronellol, and linalol. It’s is often used to extend and bolster the “rose” note in fragrances in many cases where there is little natural rose oil present.

    Perhaps the most masterful example of where all of these qualities of geranium come together is Aramis 900:

    http://www.basenotes.net/community/Y...1146377840/6#6

    scentemental[/blue]

    [red]P.S. Another masterful use of geranium, in this case in conjuction with rose and sandalwood, can be seen in Czech & Speake's *No. 88.[/red]

    Gentlemen, thank you very much for responding to my inquiry! I had wondered whether Pelargonium graveolens was the plant in question, but just didn't know. In the United States, this plant is often incorrectly referred to as a scented geranium, but as it's really a scented pelargonium (and there are unscented pelargoniums and geraniums too), it can be really confusing.


    Scentemental, I am extremely grateful for (and overwhelmed by) the incredible extent of your knowledge concerning fragrances, their construction and the aromatic ingredients used in their manufacture. Thank you for sharing this information with us and also for suggesting specific fragrances that I could sample to experience geranium; I will gladly seek them out. I was not familiar with Bourbon geranium essential oil, and will try to locate that too - I'm now really curious about this!

    Regarding my use of the term "scented", I work primarily with culinary herbs. In the USA (and among those herb specialists I know in England and Canada), scented pelargoniums are what we call a specific group of pelagoniums, known primarily for their fragrant leaves and stems, that are also safe to eat. It was perfectly logical to identify P. graveolens as such. There are about 450 known varieties of scented pelargoniums within some 250 naturally occuring species, and the rose-scented ones (such as Pelargonium graveolens or P. capitatum ) are generally the most popular for growing and cooking. My current favorite is a cultivar called 'Attar of Roses', which seems to produce the richest rose scent in my geographical area and makes a lovely rose-scented cake.

    But my favorite varieties tend to be the citrus-scented pelargoniums, such as those in the Pelargonium crispum or P. citronellum species, although I have an admitted weakness to the velvety soft leaves of P. tomentosum - the peppermint scented pelargonium. Sorry to go on like this, but I just find these plants so addictive.

    Thank you again for your help!

    Herb Lady

  7. #7

    Default Re: Geranium?

    [blue]


    Thanks for your very kind words Herb Lady. I appreciate them very much.

    The good old geranium looks like an extremely interesting plant to grow for all of us who are fragrance and plant aficionados. I am certainly going to look into growing all the different varieties you mentioned. They all sound so fascinating. I am, like you, a huge fan of rose essences in foods. Certainly no need to apologize for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us here on the board. I know there are many people on the board who find the botanical background to fragrances fascinating. I would encourage you to post on such subject many more times in the future.

    Best regards,

    scentemental[/blue]



  8. #8
    foetidus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Geranium?

    Sentemental and Herb Lady,

    I hope both of you keep posting these threads. Excellent information.

    Thank you.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Geranium?

    Quote Originally Posted by foetidus
    Sentemental and Herb Lady,

    I hope both of you keep posting these threads. Excellent information.

    Thank you.

    [blue]Thanks foetidus. I certainly will. Thanks for taking the time to say so.

    scentemental[/blue]





  10. #10
    loungeboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Geranium?

    I often think when people say they smell the rose note in Ungaro III they are rather smelling the geranium note masquerading as the rose note. Just my theory.
    "Ca sent les pieds!"

  11. #11

    Default Re: Geranium?

    Quote Originally Posted by foetidus
    Sentemental and Herb Lady,

    I hope both of you keep posting these threads. *Excellent information. *

    Thank you.
    Oh my goodness, Foetidus and Scentemental, you're both making me blush! But thank you very much for the compliments. I'm just secretly relieved that I'm not boring everyone to death.

    If anyone is interested in learning more about scented pelargoniums and their diverse fragrances, here's a link to Amazon.com for a small, but well-respected book on the topic: Scented Geraniums, Knowing, Growing and Enjoying Scented Pelargoniums, by Jim Becker & Faye Brawner. I see they also have it for sale on Amazon's UK website too.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188...e&n=283155

    This category of plants is fascinating - scents like coconut, apple, nutmeg, lime, cinnamon, cedar, black pepper, strawberry, ginger and more. So easy to grow too, even in a container. For those of you interested in strong, clear lemon scents, allow me to suggest Pelargonium citronellum 'Mabel Grey'. It's one of my favorites. I do wonder - if a fragrance house uses a different geranium other than a rose-scented one, would they indicate that on their fragrance notes...say by calling it "apple geranium"? Or might they just say geranium or even just apple?

    Loungeboy - I apologize. I'm not familiar with Ungaro III at all, but look forward to experiencing it and seeing what kind of "rose" I get from it.


  12. #12

    Default Re: Geranium?

    as is the general use in perfumery, houses almost never use real geranium flowers, so they go for the use of (natural and synthetic) molecules that combined, make the "aura" or the odor equivalent of geranium: here are some of the most used:

    Apo Patchone
    Citronellol 750
    Citronellol Coeur
    Citronellyl Acetate A
    Citronellyl Acetate Pure
    Rosamusk

    these along with others, are included in most of the "geranium" frags of today!
    cheers!
    -love to hear about the plants and everything you guys know so much!.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Geranium?

    Quote Originally Posted by castorpollux
    as is the general use in perfumery, houses almost never use real geranium flowers, so they go for the use of (natural and synthetic) molecules that combined, make the "aura" or the odor equivalent of geranium: here are some of the most used:

    Apo Patchone
    Citronellol 750
    Citronellol Coeur
    Citronellyl Acetate A
    Citronellyl Acetate Pure
    Rosamusk

    these along with others, are included in *most of the "geranium" frags of today!
    cheers!
    -love to hear about the plants and everything you guys know so much!.
    *

    This is fascinating! I know nothing about fragrance/perfume construction, so it's amazing to me how specific natural plant scents can be recreated in a lab. Thanks for the information!

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