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  1. #61

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen
    A negative score for containing BHT?? BHT is widely used in foods and considered safe but these people consider it toxic in topical use.
    BHT has been a suspected carcinogen for years. Just because the FDA considers it safe doesn't mean too much. They're whole structure is ridiculous - they used to do tests for 7 years before allowing a new product or chemical, and now they basically use the American population as test subjects for 7 years instead. BHT is alot older though, but it's safety is still widely debated.
    Currently wearing: Norne by Slumberhouse

  2. #62

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    There is a 100% Natural Fragrance! It's called AJNE ... They list all their ingredients and the perfumist Jane Hendler is trained in ancient alchemy ...
    LOL! They list all their ingredients - like the "liquid amber from the Himalayas" in Dans L'amour? I would like to know her source for this; oh, I forgot, she is an alchemist, it must be something she conjured up in her alembic.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  3. #63

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    They're whole structure is ridiculous - they used to do tests for 7 years before allowing a new product or chemical, and now they basically use the American population as test subjects for 7 years instead.
    Yep, this is what the public wanted. Back in the 80's, when the AIDS epidemic was first recognized, it took many years to bring a new drug to market - a segment of very vocal activists claimed that this was a conspiracy by the FDA and Drug Companies against gays and consequently the approval process was changed to make these vocal activists happy. I always thought that these activists were being used and that it was really the drug companies who benefited from the change but no one seems to remember how it was that this change came about.

    But, what does this have to do with BHT?
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  4. #64

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen
    LOL! They list all their ingredients - like the "liquid amber from the Himalayas" in Dans L'amour? I would like to know her source for this; oh, I forgot, she is an alchemist, it must be something she conjured up in her alembic.
    That's Liquidamber Orientalis. A wonderful smelling resin that is a key ingredient in many amber compounds, particularly ones that do now use synthetic molecules. It's not particularly expensive, but it's luxurious and an ingredient a perfumer should not be caught without. Alchemists, by the way, were the first chemists really. They spent hours trying to extract the essence of all beings - what is referred to as extracting either the gold or the silver from things. Gold alchemy was trying to turn minerals, rocks and objects into gold. Silver alchemy was trying to find the silver in plants. This was all done by heating the said objects or plants in alembics, which eventually, after lots of scorching, burnings, trials and errors, resulted in the first extraction of essential oils. If it wasn't for those restless alchemists there wouldn't be perfumery (nor chemistry) today.
    Ayala Moriel, Perfumer
    Ayala Moriel Parfums http://www.ayalamoriel.com/
    Visit my SmellyBlog: http://www.smellyblog.com/

  5. #65

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen
    Yep, this is what the public wanted. Back in the 80's, when the AIDS epidemic was first recognized, it took many years to bring a new drug to market - a segment of very vocal activists claimed that this was a conspiracy by the FDA and Drug Companies against gays and consequently the approval process was changed to make these vocal activists happy. I always thought that these activists were being used and that it was really the drug companies who benefited from the change but no one seems to remember how it was that this change came about.

    But, what does this have to do with BHT?
    Well, I think it's a good idea to fast track drugs for people with fatal illnesses, but you're absolutely right, that change in laws was a wet dream for big pharmaceuticals. THey could easily have made the change only apply to experimental drugs for lethal illnesses. Instead we got these lethal vioxx drugs which killed 30,000 people and no one cares.

    It relates to BHT in that you said BHT has been declared safe for food. My point was that just because the FDA says it's safe doesn't mean too much.
    Currently wearing: Norne by Slumberhouse

  6. #66

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayala
    Alchemists, by the way, were the first chemists really. They spent hours trying to extract the essence of all beings - what is referred to as extracting either the gold or the silver from things. Gold alchemy was trying to turn minerals, rocks and objects into gold. Silver alchemy was trying to find the silver in plants. This was all done by heating the said objects or plants in alembics, which eventually, after lots of scorching, burnings, trials and errors, resulted in the first extraction of essential oils. If it wasn't for those restless alchemists there wouldn't be perfumery (nor chemistry) today.
    I love these kinds of stories - did any of these people end up turning to perfumery twith their discoveries, or were they chucked in the rubbish bin as failures in the quest for silver?
    Last edited by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR; 2nd October 2006 at 03:39 AM.
    Currently wearing: Norne by Slumberhouse

  7. #67

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dcampen
    LOL! They list all their ingredients - like the "liquid amber from the Himalayas" in Dans L'amour? I would like to know her source for this; oh, I forgot, she is an alchemist, it must be something she conjured up in her alembic.


    That's Liquidamber Orientalis. A wonderful smelling resin that is a key ingredient in many amber compounds,
    Most people call this Styrax. What is a commercial source for this material from the Himalayas?


    Alchemists, by the way, were the first chemists really. They spent hours trying to extract the essence of all beings - what is referred to as extracting either the gold or the silver from things. Gold alchemy was trying to turn minerals, rocks and objects into gold. Silver alchemy was trying to find the silver in plants. This was all done by heating the said objects or plants in alembics, which eventually, after lots of scorching, burnings, trials and errors, resulted in the first extraction of essential oils. If it wasn't for those restless alchemists there wouldn't be perfumery (nor chemistry) today.
    Ah, a New Age version of alchemy.
    Last edited by dcampen; 2nd October 2006 at 05:53 AM.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  8. #68

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    Here is one source for liquidambar/styrax (I've sampled theirs and liked it) but it's from Honduras, not the Himalayas:

    http://www.edenbotanicals.com/essent...ml#liquidambar

  9. #69

    Smile Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    I read about Ajne perfumes in "In Style" -- it was a quick mention but enough to catch my attention. I live in California, so I made a pilgrimage to Carmel to check it out for myself. The line is fantastic. This is the first time I have been able to wear a fragrance without enduring a massive headache from the synthetics. And, the scents are great. The owner has some already blended, or she will make custom fragrances. The shop has dozens of samples of pure, natural fragrances so you can test what works for you.
    Simply put, I am in heaven, I didn't know anything like that existed.
    About the debate over liquid amber, what am I missing? The scents are divine, the fragrances are natural, what is there to argue about. I love the romanticism of the label.

  10. #70

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    Rich Hippie are all natural and they have some frags for men too. richhippiestuff.com

  11. #71

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    Personally, as a natural perfumer, I didn't get into this field for health reasons. I love the beauty of natural aromatics, period. I got aroma chemicals back in the 70's when a perfume salesman retired and gave me his sample case. They were flat to me compared to the naturals. In the decades since, new synths came on the market that caused a lot of respiratory distress to certain people.

    As Ayala and I can attest, our natural perfumes never cause sneezes, itchy, watery eyes, etc. That said, I'm more concerned about creating gorgeous perfumes that are part of a new aesthetic, an evolution in perfumery. The fact they don't cause allergic reactions is a plus. If some can cause skin irritation, and they can, the perfumer should know to stay below recommended levels, or recommend that the wearer put the potential sensitizer on their hair or clothing, or on a piece of fabric or cotton in a piece of aromatic jewelry.

    I also wear mainstream juice occasionally, because some of them, even modern ones, like Mugler's Cologne, are exquisite.
    Anya McCoy - http://anyasgarden.com/
    Best of the Best awards - Perfume: MoonDance, StarFlower, Amberess, Light, Royal Lotus and as
    Project Leader: Outlaw Perfume and Mystery of Musk
    Basic Perfumery Course with lifetime access to the website - http://perfumeclasses.com
    America's First Natural Perfume Line 1991
    First Artisan Perfumer Voted in as member of the American Society of Perfumery 2013

  12. #72

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    Do you avoid allergenic substances like oakmoss? If not, I don't see how you can claim that your perfumes *NEVER*cause allergenic reactions like sneezes etc.

  13. #73

    Default Re: 100% natural fragrances? Are there?

    There are maximum amounts allowed by law. I stay under that amount. I'm sensitized to oakmoss on my left hand due to a spill years ago that I didn't clean off immediately (highly concentrated). I can use my one perfume with oakmoss with no reaction. Please note, also, when I was talking allergenic reactions, I was mostly speaking of respiratory and eye reactions, which is what everyone in the 70s and 80s started to complain about with the intro of aggressive synths. I put a warning in my perfume packets that the user should do a patch test first, and I give instructions how to conduct that. I also recommend using aromatic jewelry if you think you might have a derm reaction.

    I don't remember anyone complaining of dermatitis from second-hand fumes, just first-hand use and those caught in the diffusion and sillage.
    Last edited by Natural_Juice; 4th October 2006 at 11:21 AM.
    Anya McCoy - http://anyasgarden.com/
    Best of the Best awards - Perfume: MoonDance, StarFlower, Amberess, Light, Royal Lotus and as
    Project Leader: Outlaw Perfume and Mystery of Musk
    Basic Perfumery Course with lifetime access to the website - http://perfumeclasses.com
    America's First Natural Perfume Line 1991
    First Artisan Perfumer Voted in as member of the American Society of Perfumery 2013

  14. #74

    Default Natural ingredients

    Does anyone know which companies are known to use natural ingredients? Do high-end companies use natural ingredients more often? Anyone know anything about Hermes, Lalique, Creed, Serge Luten regarding this? Also, from what I hear Creed still uses real ambergris? I've also read an article which I believe came from their french website that claims him to use true tonkin musk. From what I understand about musk this is just about impossible. Any thoughts on the above would be great. Thanks.

    David

  15. #75

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    a great perfume is executed and composed with the highest natural and synthetic quality ingredients. after all there are all natural fragrances that are in the end both average or poor in quality and execution.
    the Creeds have high percentage of natural ingredients but they 're not considered all natural fragrances, I also find their executions very classic, "safe" and non innovative or groundbreaking when it comes to artistic creativity. Serge Lutens claims using the most precious and rarest perfume ingredients, natural and synthetic, most of his perfumes are perfumes with strong personality and character, to him perfume is not just a scent but also a point of view and extreme luxury. Hermes under Jean-Claude Ellena uses high grade natural ingredients, at Sephora they 're probably the most high end fragrances when it comes to prestige and quality, the style is minimalist. Caron uses the most expensive natural ingredients of all classic perfume houses.
    Last edited by The Miracle of The Rose; 27th February 2008 at 04:10 AM.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    Guerlain uses 80% natural, I have recently heard. BPAL uses a high%. Atlier is 100%. There is an entire site for Natural Perfumary with lots of links. Opus Oils has a natural line.

    I like to see that companies are using at least real flowers in their blends (I can easily be seduced by Grasse tuberose, mayrose, and violets) such as Chanel and Caron. Top notes are tricky in natural perfumary. Usually sour citrus or pungent spices are used to give them lift, which I don't care for. I have always gone for the "darker" natural perfumes, usually oils (Eden Botanicals makes the most wonderful natural ambers) to avoid the tops. I am learning to love green notes and aldehydes in "regular" perfumes to go a bit lighter than my usual dark tastes, which are usually human-made, but I don't care. They smell good! I, too, have heard that Creed uses real ambergris. I want to smell them for just this reason.

    Profumo used to sell real civit and musks. Most sources I've asked say that this is illegal. I don't really know. Ambergris does not harm the animal (it's a byproduct that washes up on the shore) and there are a few natural perfumers that use it. It's very expensive, as are many of the fine natural materials, which is why, I think, not a lot of companies use it.

    I make natual perfumes on the side, and have had many people have unexpected reactions to citrus, ambrette, and even flowers at 10% or less dilutions. "Natural" isn't always "better" or "safer", but it is nice to stay connected, at least by a thread.
    Last edited by lookingglass; 27th February 2008 at 12:59 PM.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
    Guerlain uses 80% natural, I have recently heard. BPAL uses a high%. Atlier is 100%. There is an entire site for Natural Perfumary with lots of links. Opus Oils has a natural line.

    I like to see that companies are using at least real flowers in their blends (I can easily be seduced by Grasse tuberose, mayrose, and violets) such as Chanel and Caron. Top notes are tricky in natural perfumary. Usually sour citrus or pungent spices are used to give them lift, which I don't care for. I have always gone for the "darker" natural perfumes, usually oils (Eden Botanicals makes the most wonderful natural ambers) to avoid the tops. I am learning to love green notes and aldehydes in "regular" perfumes to go a bit lighter than my usual dark tastes, which are usually human-made, but I don't care. They smell good! I, too, have heard that Creed uses real ambergris. I want to smell them for just this reason.

    Profumo used to sell real civit and musks. Most sources I've asked say that this is illegal. I don't really know. Ambergris does not harm the animal (it's a byproduct that washes up on the shore) and there are a few natural perfumers that use it. It's very expensive, as are many of the fine natural materials, which is why, I think, not a lot of companies use it.

    I make natual perfumes on the side, and have had many people have unexpected reactions to citrus, ambrette, and even flowers at 10% or less dilutions. "Natural" isn't always "better" or "safer", but it is nice to stay connected, at least by a thread.
    JP Guerlain confirms the 80-20 rule in his book My Journey in the World of Perfumes (p.51), but I doubt it still applies under LVMH ownership.

    I love natural oils, but consider that thge smells of violet, lilac, lilly of the valley, honeysuckle, gardenia and others in perfume are the result of synthetics. Modern perfumery would not exist without the chemical revolution of the 19th century. Nor would we have affordable musk, sandalwood, ambergris. A quality perfume will employ the best ingredients required for the purpose, wheter natural or synthetic. The "cheap synthetic" smell of many mass market perfumes is owed to the unimaginative (over)use of cheap and ever-similarly blended ingredients, such as calone or dihydromercenol.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    I always wonder if the 'we want natural stuff' -people think they put chopped real flowers into the perfume or something like that.

    First of all, a scent of - for example - a certain flower is composed out of many different kind of molecules. There is not one type of molecule responsible for the whole scent. If you want to recreate the scent synthetically, you try to recreate the most pungent or important molecules of the whole group. Whether you have a 'naturally extracted molecule' or a synthesized one *does not matter*. A molecule is a molecule. It's like saying I like my sodium chloride better when it's taken from the sea. No! You might like sea salt better because it's 'polluted' with other salts, but your sodium chloride is just sodium chloride.

    Second, using natural extracted scent molecules might NOT yield what people perceive as a 'natural' scent. Often by tweaking perception using synthetic molecules, you might give the perception of a 'natural' scent, while the real thing might seem to smell way off or artificial.

    These days the words 'organic' and 'all natural' are being attributed more positive superpowers than they often deserve credit for.
    --------------------------------------
    Actually, the_good_life explains it much better than myself.
    Last edited by Stereotomy; 1st March 2008 at 01:29 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  19. #79
    beachroses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by Stereotomy View Post
    I always wonder if the 'we want natural stuff' -people think they put chopped real flowers into the perfume or something like that.
    No and you can try to justify it anyway you like, some people can tell when something is synthetic. Synthetics also do not have the aromatherapy qualities real essences do. I don't have to have something 100% natural, but it had better have a good deal in it. I think some people bash those who want natural fragrances because the ingredients are more expensive for you to use or you cannot create something beautiful with what you can find. Well, if you can find buyers, then knock yourselves out.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    Synthetics also do not have the aromatherapy qualities real essences do.
    This is exactly what I mean. You are confusing two entirely seperate things. If you take a lemon scent for example, I hope you understand that there are many molecules responsible for the lemon scent. The most important one of them though is citronellal, or 3,7-dimethyloct-6-en-1-al. If you want to recreate the scent of a lemon synthetically, you need to include citronellal, plus all the other scent molecules that together are the scent of a lemon. What you would like to call 'synthetic' smells often lack one of the less important ingredients or maybe the proportions are mixed up.

    It is complete hogwash however, to say some people can tell the difference between naturally extracted 3,7-dimethyloct-6-en-1-al or a synthetically created batch. Or that natural citronellal molecules 'don't break down as fast' as synthetically made ones. That's BS. The same molecule is the same molecule when all the parameters such as chirality are the same, no matter if nature made it or if a laboratory made it.

    I know people who don't want to eat - what they call - 'normal table salt' in their food because 'they made it in the factory'. No, they want to eat naturally organically whatever extracted sea salt. That is 'natural and organic'. My god. Sodium chloride is sodium chloride, get over it!

    It might not be as romantic, but fragrances are an art form of molecular chemistry. But in the end, it stays molecular chemistry. It's engineering. Famous perfumers need technical skills and thorough understanding of chemical engineering to succeed. Only having a sensitive nose is only half of the equation. I'm sure it's more romantic and fulfilling to say a certain citrus scent has naturally extracted citronellal inside and that many real lemons were killed for that, but don't think the same molecule is any different when moleculary engineered in a lab.

    There's no such thing as an 'ambergris scent molecule'. The scent ambergris gives is comprised of many different kind of molecules that need to be either extracted naturally or synthetically recreated. Often, extracted essence does not smell 'natural' at all to 'natural loving'-people (and all others) so sometimes the industry is simply forced to tweak and engineer molecules that give people the *perception* of the real thing.

    I think some people bash those who want natural fragrances because the ingredients are more expensive for you to use or you cannot create something beautiful with what you can find.
    Say what?
    Last edited by Stereotomy; 3rd March 2008 at 12:47 AM.
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  21. #81
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    There are synthetic molecules which are more expensive than natural essences. There are also smells which cannot be captured via natural essence extraction; iris is an example. Every perfume on earth which claims to use iris utilizes a synthetically created iris molecule. Its not possible to extract the essence of iris from the iris flower. However, there are cheap iris molecules and there are expensive iris molecules (I forget their name but one of them is called ionone and the other is irone); which one a perfumer uses in their composition depends on the budget.

    This site might be of interest:
    http://www.leffingwell.com/chirality/chirality.htm
    -

  22. #82

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    People often want natural sea salt because it contains other elements that are either beneficial in and of themselves or add to the nutritional value of the whole. Salt that has been stripped down to just sodium chloride is just like the pure sugar that has been stripped of any remaining nutritional value that is causing so many problems now. Natural ingredients are generally easier on the body, save some kind of allergic reaction, often good for the body, and can react with the body to have positive effects either immediately or in the future. I'm not a scientist but I'm pretty sure, from the things that I've read, that a synthetic molecule will not react with the body in the same way as natural molecules,hence the previous paragraph. Any aromatherapist would tell you the same. It is funny how people seem to come down on something they probably know little about. Anyhow, it seems like the thread got a little sidetracked from my original post so anyone that has anything to offer regarding the original post would be great. Thanks.
    --------------------------------------
    Also, iris scent comes from the root and not the flower.
    --------------------------------------
    Also, some houses do still use REAL ingredients(Flowers, roots, resins) in the fragrances. People do use REAL chopped flowers in their perfumes.
    Last edited by ddorris; 3rd March 2008 at 03:40 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  23. #83

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by ddorris View Post
    People often want natural sea salt because it contains other elements that are either beneficial in and of themselves or add to the nutritional value of the whole. Salt that has been stripped down to just sodium chloride is just like the pure sugar that has been stripped of any remaining nutritional value that is causing so many problems now. Natural ingredients are generally easier on the body, save some kind of allergic reaction, often good for the body, and can react with the body to have positive effects either immediately or in the future. I'm not a scientist but I'm pretty sure, from the things that I've read, that a synthetic molecule will not react with the body in the same way as natural molecules,hence the previous paragraph. Any aromatherapist would tell you the same. It is funny how people seem to come down on something they probably know little about. Anyhow, it seems like the thread got a little sidetracked from my original post so anyone that has anything to offer regarding the original post would be great. Thanks.
    --------------------------------------
    Also, iris scent comes from the root and not the flower.
    --------------------------------------
    Also, some houses do still use REAL ingredients(Flowers, roots, resins) in the fragrances. People do use REAL chopped flowers in their perfumes.

    Iris root does not smell like iris flowers, it smells of violets. A fragrance that smells of iris flowers contains synthetics (or a brilliant natural perfumer has combined numerous oils so as to achieve an iris flower effect)

    Of course perfumers use natural essences. I just feel there is an inherent dogmatism in avoiding synthetics at all cost, as if they're "evil" in some kind of way. and believe me, I hate most designer scents, because they are "synthetic" meaning 90% cheap synthetics. I've smelled horrid natural perfumes as well. I like many Creeds, Lutens, Villoresis, which combine naturals and synthetics. The best of both worlds seems the obvious choice for me.

    While I consume mostly organic products, for very rational reasons, I am amazed at some of the myths surrounding them and "natural" products in general. I use untreated salts because the impurities it includes enhance the flavor, and because industrial salt is treated with additives I can do without. I doubt it is healthier though. To believe the negligible amounts of minerals and nutrients in unrefined sugars make that sugar healthier is naive - the amounts are much too low and you're basically still talking - unhealthy - sugar. Same applies for honey, the health effect is simply negligible, and if you use it for baking, most of the healthy elements decompose anyway. So I use muscovado sugar or honey for hedonistic purposes only - flavor. Much organic fruit tastes better not primarily because of the organic farming (though that is better for the environment, and undepelted soil may be a minor factor in flavor), but because organic farmers grow varietals which may be more susceptible to transport or disease, but contain much more flavor (my local demeter-farmer has created an incredibly carroty carrot, but it has to be kept in dirt and needs to be eaten within a week or two or it rots - worthless from an agrobusiness perspective, but immensely tasty)

    There are a number of threads on this issue here, and as scentemental, I believe, explained in some detail, the line between naturals and synthetics in perfumery is anything but clear - to produce natural concretes or absolutes, the essential oils go through massive chemical processes and transformations, on the other hand numerous synthetics are derived by chemical transformations from vegetal raw materials - I would say it's rather difficult to claim the one as more "natural", if that means taken from nature and unadulterated, than the other. I'd also wager most people would prefer a synthetic sandalwood component in their perfume, than some very low grade natural oil with serious, possibly hazardous, impurities. And I doubt most people can actually tell the difference between a natural and a synthetic product. To cite a food example: about 80% of the extra virgin olive oil on the world market is substandard trash which is manipulated to superficially evince the characteristics of extranative, when legally it would have to be declared as lamp oil. But do you hear complaints from consumers? I heard a Diptyque SA lie to a customer who asked whether these perfumes were natural. She said yes, of course. That's what happens when an industry fails to properly inform people about its production methods and lives with a lie for over 100 years.
    Last edited by the_good_life; 3rd March 2008 at 05:44 PM.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  24. #84

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by ddorris View Post
    Natural ingredients are generally easier on the body, save some kind of allergic reaction, often good for the body, and can react with the body to have positive effects either immediately or in the future.

    I'm not a scientist but I'm pretty sure, from the things that I've read, that a synthetic molecule will not react with the body in the same way as natural molecules,hence the previous paragraph.
    If we create two categories of molecules, "natural" and "synthetic," we are faced with a number of difficulties.

    First, what is "natural?" Quinine may be naturally extracted from the bark of a South American tree, but it is more generally synthesized from tar. Either way, we have the same molecule: same smell, same taste, same effect on the body.

    Second, do these categories tell us anything useful? "Natural" substances are not automatically more healthy. "Natural" oakmoss in perfume triggers an allergic reaction in some people; the "synthetic" alternatives do not.

    These issues are important to perfumery and beyond. Illogically fetishizing "natural" substances leads to overharvesting (sandalwood), deforestation (sandalwood), animal cruelty (musk), and endangering species (musk).

  25. #85

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    Refined salt is like the refined high fructose corn syrup that's recieving so much attention in the media today. It's purified, and not in a good sense, to the point of being so out of whack that it throws things out of balance. It's like so many of the plants that have been used for hundreds of years without problems but scientists now isolate one chemical and test it on animals in rediculous amounts and wonder why it's now all of a sudden cancerous, etc.?

    "because industrial salt is treated with additives I can do without"

    For what reason other than health reasons can you do without these additives? Additives usually make things more tasteful to most people. However, most people are so used to eating additive laden foods they can't appreciate natural foods anymore, the way food is supposed to be.

    I'm not saying synthetics don't have their place, especially in the case of musks and the like, but so many fragrances I'm sure are primarily, if not all synthetic and probably very poor quality synthetic to boot, which can't be good for a variety of reasons. So many of the man made products(plastics,etc.) don't even break down in landfills or turn into horrible gases. Like I said, synthetics have their place, but within reason. They're like so many of the "modern conveniences" that have ultimately served to complicate things even more. Excesses that have gotten out of hand as a result of our foolish ego's. Peace.

  26. #86

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by Stereotomy View Post
    I know people who don't want to eat - what they call - 'normal table salt' in their food because 'they made it in the factory'. No, they want to eat naturally organically whatever extracted sea salt. That is 'natural and organic'. My god. Sodium chloride is sodium chloride, get over it!
    This actully isn't true. Pure sodium chloride might be the same either way, but the difference between refined table salt and unrefined sea salt are the cofactors (other minerals) which make the sodium chloride less harmful to the body. Nature provides molecules, or minerals, or vitamins, in accompaniment for a reason.

    The sodium chloride is the same in refined or unrefined salt, but one is missing the other minerals which are needed by the body to assimilate and excrete the chloride properly. Normal table salt causes water retention and mineral loss over time for that reason, as the chloride calls on the body's mineral reserves in order to be processed.

    As for fragrances, I have never smelled a synthetic rose blend, even the really good ones, that gives me any of the satisfaction of smelling a real rose (or rose oil). Because it is missing the co-factors, the other molecular elements. And considering natural rose consists of hundreds of molecules in various proportions, it is unlikely that it will ever be synthetically replicated properly.
    Currently digging: Le Labo Rose 31 and Oud oils.

  27. #87

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwell View Post
    Pure sodium chloride might be the same either way, but the difference between refined table salt and unrefined sea salt are the cofactors (other minerals) which make the sodium chloride less harmful to the body. Nature provides molecules, or minerals, or vitamins, in accompaniment for a reason.
    Cite?
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by ddorris View Post
    "because industrial salt is treated with additives I can do without"
    Such as?
    Last edited by Advocate; 4th March 2008 at 06:41 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  28. #88

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    I was quoting one of the other members about the refined salt containing additives they could do without. One of the same members who questioned the validity of natural/organic products.
    --------------------------------------
    Advocate, do you actually question the poor/questionable quality of so many of the mass produced food products manufactured in the world today? It's funny how people are so averse to natural products and are so for synthetic/technologically advanced products when there's so much evidence for the negative effects of many of the latter and positive evidence for the former. It's like people thinking they're better or more "civilised" because they live in a technologically advanced society and all the people in the tribal hut way out in the woods are below them because they don't have a computer or an ipod in their pocket. Anyhow, again it seems like this thread has gotten off topic. If anyone has any information on my original post that would be great. Anyone trying to disprove or argue against natural ingredients/products, please hold your comments. Thanks.
    Last edited by ddorris; 5th March 2008 at 01:02 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  29. #89

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    Quote Originally Posted by ddorris View Post
    It's funny how people are so averse to natural products and are so for synthetic/technologically advanced products when there's so much evidence for the negative effects of many of the latter and positive evidence for the former.
    Evidence . . . such as? I have provided an example of a scent chemical that is "natural" but harmful, and an example of a scent chemical that is "synthetic" but beneficial. Any evidence supporting the equations natural == good and synthetic == bad would certainly be appreciated.

    A chemical is a chemical is a chemical. Some do good things to humans when inhaled or ingested. Some, not so much. Labeling a chemical "natural" or "synthetic," which is itself a man-made distinction rather than one arising from objective circumstances, contributes nothing to my knowledge of the particular chemical, whether it is in my fragrance or my food.
    Last edited by Advocate; 5th March 2008 at 01:43 AM. Reason: Brevity

  30. #90

    Default Re: Natural ingredients

    Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of problematic synthetics - degradibility is a frequent issue. For example, sythetic musks are now widely present in air, water, fish, mammals, and breast milk. There are dozens of academic papers on this. It's just important to be conceptually clear that it is not "syntheticness" that makes a substance hazardous, but certain specific qualities, just as natural substances are not automatically beneficial, but are so due to specific properties.
    menthol: good for adults with a cold, kills babies
    lead: never good (traditionally used in "natural" cosmetics in past history, and, as lead sugar, to sweeten wine, for lining vessels and making water pipes. All very unwise choices)
    treemoss: smells great, but also an allergen. Etc. etc.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

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