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  1. #1

    Default Natural or not??

    Why is it that we all love niche so much? I comonly hear that niche houses use many natural notes instead of synthetic, thus they cost a hell of a lot more than we want to pay.

    The problem I see with this is that there are not many natural notes anymore. Many have moved to sythetic permanently. For example: almost all animalic notes. They are derived from animals and now they have all kinds of animal rights acts and some are dangerous to the animal itself, the rest are just rare and hard to come by. Those notes would be (musc, civet, leather, Ambergis). There are some very famous niche musc scents (Muscs Koublai Kahn) but they are not made with real musc. Real musc needs to be extracted from the glands of a Tibentan Musc Deer, which kills it. You can't do that anymore...

    Ambers, Woods, and Florals are the main notes that I think are still natural now a days. They seem to be relatively easy to extract but costly. Synthetic seem so much easier.

    There are so many animalic notes in fragrances and we still think that we are buying niche bottles and paying the premium because we are getting a natural fragrance that didn't take the easy route of synthetic solutions.

    I don't really know what I am getting at other than I always though that niche fragrances were this elite class that were real. I know the deffinition of "niche" and I am not trying to say that niche means natural but I was always told that by people and it comes as a great shock to me to know that there are so many out there with fake notes. I can't even pronounce half of the scientific terms. Half of those words have numbers in the middle. I am just very let down to realize this misunderstanding...

    I might be taking the whole niche thing too literally but it shocked me so I wanted to start a thread about it and explain to those who might be living in the dark like I was about how misled they might be. I know I was. It might just be repetition for some of you old people in here and I am sorry for that. It doesn't say "all natural" or even "natural" so I guess they don't have to be 100% do they? There is just some stuff that you can't get at all in its natural form (Ambergis).

    So, I guess the question I am really asking is why do we consider niche and natural fragrances so closely related? Is it just me or do I have to join MaisonStinky in "crazy town"????

    Thanks for reading! ;D

    EnvYuS

  2. #2

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Quote Originally Posted by EnvYuS
    So, I guess the question I am really asking is why do we consider niche and natural fragrances so closely related? Is it just me or do I have to join MaisonStinky in "crazy town"????

    You mean "hug your neighbor's wife" town?



  3. #3

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    I don't agree with the whole "niche" = "natural" thang.

    Coors light is natural, as is Lindeman's Frambois Lambic.




  4. #4
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    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Interesting how we associate high-quality with natural and niche, isn't it?

    I think why many of us love a lot of the niche scents is partly the quality of
    the ingredients and the blending. *Sometimes high quality means natural ingredients,
    sometimes it doesn't. *But it means that they charge what they need to to make it
    smell good. *I think many niche scents are marginal, just as many designer scents are
    substandard. *But niche scents often will stray farther from mainstream tastes and/or
    will give you a full range of smells to choose from. *And the best niche scents are
    amazing. *Smell Bois du Portugal, for example.

    Many of the scents that take their name from some clothing designer or other
    product are very predictable and ho hum. *But there are notable exceptions to this.
    Chanel would be considered a clothing designer brand, but I'll
    bet more people know them for fragrances and fashion accessories such as sunglasses
    than for their famous women's suits. *And Chanel has a fabulous line of men's and women's
    fragrances, spanning a range of scent families and maintaining their scent line year after year, rarely
    discontinuing anything. *I mean, Pour Monsieur has been around for 50 years, and it still smells
    great. *And Chanel has the brains and confidence in their tradition to keep it available.
    But many designer brands don't bother to take the care that a company like Chanel does.
    Does anyone think we will be talking about the various Kenneth Cole scents years from now?

    One other reason beyond breadth of line and risk taking that mke us interested in niche: *They bring out
    new scents frequently. *Our curiousity is piqued and we sample them and talk about them.
    So there is a lot of buzz here about niche scents. *That makes it look like we are niche freaks,
    but from the SOTD stats we wear an awful lot of designer scents here, and Creed is the only
    niche or semi-niche line that dominates the SOTD.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    there are alot of natural food stores that I have been to
    that stock alot of essential oils,if you want natural it is easily
    accessable,I enjoy it.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    There has been some talk of this before and if I'm not mistaken it was Scentemental that has also went into detail on similar issues. The thing is, just because it is synthetic does NOT mean it is necessarily worse.
    In terms of beverages, Coca Cola (including almost all non-juices etc.) is like pouring a bunch of chemcicals down your throat, literally. But we live with it, they are not necessarily "life threatening" chemicals.

    Just my 2 cents, synthetic is not automatically = to bad.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Synthetics are single chemicals, whereas essential oils tend to be blends of many chemicals. The result - ideally - is that essential oils smell richer, fuller and more real than synthetics. Less ideally, having all the extra chemicals in there may make the scent "muddy" instead, but of course any perfumer would strive to avoid that.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    I'm not an expert, but I don't think that niche automatically means natural. In my opinion, one of the major differences between niche and mass market is the choice and orchestration of the notes rather than whether they are synthetic or not. Niche houses seem to be under less pressure from major corporations and in my experience tend to create fragrances a bit outside the mainstream.

    Regards,
    Steve

  9. #9

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Niche is not synonimous with natural. Olivia Giacobetti uses many synthetics for example but the rersult is often better and more realistic than even the "real thing". Some synthetic notes are as expensive as the most noble natural essences. In IMHO it's silly to think something smells beter because it's all natural. Though natural essences can be beautiful ofcourse, they will always smell like an extract. If you want something that smells like the real living flower, ironicly you will have to use synthetics.

    And don't think that niche is more expensive because they use more expensive essences, even if some do.
    It's a question of brand positioning: something more exclusive = more expensive = more desirable. What's true is that because they have less points of sale, they produce less than other companies, so their cost is higher per bottle produced.

    Having worked in a niche perfumerie for 2 years now, I can tell you it's not that different from the more commercial fragrance business. Those smaller houses still want your money as badly as Estée Lauder does.

    My conclusion is: If a perfume is poorly blended, natural essences or synthetics, it's still poorly blended.


  10. #10

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    I'm not sure if CdG is considered 'niche', but they have the most synthetic frags I know.

    I don't mind if a note is synthetic per se, but it seems like many of the synthetics are so recognizable that I get sick of them quickly. Case in point is the synthetic melon note that EVERY NEW FREAKIN frag contains.

    Another thing to remember, Envyus, is that just because a chemical has a weird name, doesn't necessarily mean that it's synthetic (by synthetic I assume you mean that they are derived from petroleum products). Many popular (natural) notes have intimidating names in addition to their colloquial names: benzaldehyde, isoamyl acetate, acetaldehyde, etc are all found naturally and then extracted. I don't consider an isolated extract to be synthetic.

    For your reading pleasure, here is a list of synthetic notes. These can all be prepared in the laboratory.

    methyl butyrate smells of pineapple or apple
    methyl salicylate (oil of wintergreen) smells of the ointments called Germolene™ and Ralgex™ in the UK
    methyl benzoate smells of fruity-ylang ylang
    ethyl formate smells of rum
    ethyl butyrate smells of pineapple or strawberry
    ethyl salicylate smells of oil of wintergreen
    ethyl heptanoate smells of grape
    propyl isobutyrate smells of rum
    isobutyl formate smells of raspberries
    butyl butyrate smells of pineapple
    pentyl acetate smells of banana
    pentyl pentanoate smells of apple
    pentyl butyrate smells of pear or apricot
    isopentyl acetate smells of pear or banana (it is used as the flavouring in the manufacturing of old fashioned Pear Drops)
    octyl acetate smells of fruity-orange
    benzyl acetate smells slightly of jasmine
    Nihil Obstat Ben


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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Quote Originally Posted by EnvYuS
    Why is it that we all love niche so much? I comonly hear that niche houses use many natural notes instead of synthetic, thus they cost a hell of a lot more than we want to pay.

    The problem I see with this is that there are not many natural notes anymore. Many have moved to sythetic permanently. For example: almost all animalic notes. They are derived from animals and now they have all kinds of animal rights acts and some are dangerous to the animal itself, the rest are just rare and hard to come by. Those notes would be (musc, civet, leather, Ambergis). There are some very famous niche musc scents (Muscs Koublai Kahn) but they are not made with real musc. Real musc needs to be extracted from the glands of a Tibentan Musc Deer, which kills it. You can't do that anymore...

    Ambers, Woods, and Florals are the main notes that I think are still natural now a days. They seem to be relatively easy to extract but costly. Synthetic seem so much easier.

    There are so many animalic notes in fragrances and we still think that we are buying niche bottles and paying the premium because we are getting a natural fragrance that didn't take the easy route of synthetic solutions.

    I don't really know what I am getting at other than I always though that niche fragrances were this elite class that were real. I know the deffinition of "niche" and I am not trying to say that niche means natural but I was always told that by people and it comes as a great shock to me to know that there are so many out there with fake notes. I can't even pronounce half of the scientific terms. Half of those words have numbers in the middle. I am just very let down to realize this misunderstanding...

    I might be taking the whole niche thing too literally but it shocked me so I wanted to start a thread about it and explain to those who might be living in the dark like I was about how misled they might be. I know I was. It might just be repetition for some of you old people in here and I am sorry for that. It doesn't say "all natural" or even "natural" so I guess they don't have to be 100% do they? There is just some stuff that you can't get at all in its natural form (Ambergis).

    So, I guess the question I am really asking is why do we consider niche and natural fragrances so closely related? Is it just me or do I have to join MaisonStinky in "crazy town"????

    Thanks for reading! ;D

    EnvYuS
    I use to think about it this way as well until I did some independant learning on perfumery and actually tried my hand at it myself, now I definatley use some synthetics in my creations: there are many reasons. sometimes you dont want to smell exactly like a flower, lets say an actual jasmine - you'd rather smell like a mystic jasmine from happy land just past the rainbow, synthetics can be used to modify the fragrance to give it a more "fantasy" feel, other times, you can use synthetics to replace top notes which are generally muted down by by distillation processes of essential oils, so you actually regain a more natural smell

    its interesting stuff! try reading up on it

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Natural or not??

    if I could even just add onto something I said, I would say that with a Niche brand you pay for the artistry put into the frag as well, look for instance at a GAP brand tshirt vs. a Galliano or Dior Homme or Undercover t shirt. Sure there is a marginal increase in the quality of materials, perhaps 70% higher quality cotton, BUT the price can reach up to 500% or 1000% more. why? well because it is cut and sewn in a nicer way, the graphics on the shirt are nicer (ie: someone put some thought into an inspiring graphic on the front instead of just slapping a label in the font of the day), and its exclusive. Its a name you can attach to yourself to boost your own image. kinda like the designer logo syndrome but 10X more powerful :P

    hot girl: "wow, what are you wearing? it smells so good"
    you: "well, this is *puts on best french accent* un jardin en grasse par maitre du parfum honore beaugrand, its a super exclusive fragrance only available in france *acts cool*"
    hot girl: "wow! well whatever it is it smelled amazing, i just want to keep smelling your neck all day"
    you: *grins and silently thanks honore beaugrand*
    *the girl tells all her friends the next day about how cool and unique you are*

    a fragrance is more than just the sum of its notes!!!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Natural or not? I can't see the point of this question. The question would have a point if it was a valid one and by that I mean if what is smelled actually arose from a natural or synthetic source.

    What is smelled does not have its source where it apparently does.

    To smell a rose one has to BECOME a rose....


  14. #14

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Cut and pasted from creed official website

    "Wherever possible, Olivier Creed insists on using natural essences instead of the synthetic ones used increasingly by large perfume companies these days. This enables Olivier Creed, a perfectionist, to preserve the originality and superior quality of his fragrances. The components are then weighed, mixed, macerated and filtered, all by hand..."
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

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  15. #15
    Adrian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Quote Originally Posted by EnvYuS
    Why is it that we all love niche so much? I comonly hear that niche houses use many natural notes instead of synthetic, thus they cost a hell of a lot more than we want to pay.[/b]
    Niche fragrances are not necessarily of superior quality..the price we pay is for exclusivity.
    "He was some kind of a man... What does it matter what you say about people?"

  16. #16

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    I hope people realize that there is no essential oil sac on flowers and trees that you go out and pop and get this "natural" stuff that just pours out. To make high quiality "natural oils" you have to mash up the plant bits and do a TON of chemistry (yes - with those nasty chemicals) to separate the good stuff from the bad. You can certainly find really natural stuff at your local farmer's market which are made by soaking flowers in alcohol (still a chemical, as are water and air btw), but if you've ever smelled those you know that Chanel and Creed aren't using that stuff.

    On a related note, but I don't want to stray too far off topic - I have a feeling the same people that are hung up on natural perfumes are contributing to the rediculous organic food craze. People - cow shit has killed WAY more people than synthetic fertilizer, hormones, and heaven forbid - transgenics! So when you get cancer anyway, even though you avoid those pesky chemicals, you'll be begging you doctor to pump your body full of poison to kill the cancer. Perhaps by then there will some new "organotheraphy" because chemotherapy has chemicals in it.

    Sorry, that was a rant. Anyway, someday very soon the "natural" trend will pass and we can all go back to just enjoying life instead of worrying about the .5mL of violently, deadly, subpar smelling poison that we spray to make ourselves smell nice.

    Ok, that was still kind of a rant. At one point in history items were marketed as being superior because they were synthetic. Today things are marketed as superior because the are natural. Tomorrow there will be a new craze. Don't take this stuff too seriously.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Quote Originally Posted by FatTony
    I hope people realize that there is no essential oil sac on flowers and trees that you go out and pop and get this "natural" stuff that just pours out. To make high quiality "natural oils" you have to mash up the plant bits and do a TON of chemistry (yes - with those nasty chemicals) to separate the good stuff from the bad. You can certainly find really natural stuff at your local farmer's market which are made by soaking flowers in alcohol (still a chemical, as are water and air btw), but if you've ever smelled those you know that Chanel and Creed aren't using that stuff.

    On a related note, but I don't want to stray too far off topic - I have a feeling the same people that are hung up on natural perfumes are contributing to the rediculous organic food craze. People - cow shit has killed WAY more people than synthetic fertilizer, hormones, and heaven forbid - transgenics! So when you get cancer anyway, even though you avoid those pesky chemicals, you'll be begging you doctor to pump your body full of poison to kill the cancer. Perhaps by then there will some new "organotheraphy" because chemotherapy has chemicals in it.

    Sorry, that was a rant. Anyway, someday very soon the "natural" trend will pass and we can all go back to just enjoying life instead of worrying about the .5mL of violently, deadly, subpar smelling poison that we spray to make ourselves smell nice.

    Ok, that was still kind of a rant. At one point in history items were marketed as being superior because they were synthetic. Today things are marketed as superior because the are natural. Tomorrow there will be a new craze. Don't take this stuff too seriously.
    dude! thank you... this natural perfumery stuff is starting to drive me insane. and the prices that people are paying too?? its highway robbery! a bunch of quack doctors (ie: organic aromatherapists) preying on weak minds... thats what it is.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Quote Originally Posted by FatTony
    I hope people realize that there is no essential oil sac on flowers and trees that you go out and pop and get this "natural" stuff that just pours out. To make high quiality "natural oils" you have to mash up the plant bits and do a TON of chemistry (yes - with those nasty chemicals) to separate the good stuff from the bad.
    That's hardly accurate. EOs are typically distilled.. not what I'd call "a TON of chemistry with those nasty chemicals". Absolutes are extracted with solvents, some of which are potentially more harmful than others, but there isn't really any chemistry involved there either.. at least not in the sense that you mix two substances to produce a third.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Niche fragrances dont last longer than mass produced fragrances in general.
    As a matter of fact I've found that they are just about the same or slightly less in staying power.
    The real strength of niche fragrances is IMO is that many have been created by thinking outside the box in terms of the variety of notes and how they are formulated.
    In other words they are often unique when compared along side more commercially marketed fragrances.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    These components are listed on my Serge Lutens' Tubereuse Criminelle box:

    Alcohol denat.
    Parfum (fragrance)
    Benzyl alcohol
    Butylphenyl Methylpropional
    Linalool
    Aqua (water)
    Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane
    Geraniol
    Eugenol
    Dipropylene Glycol
    Limonene
    Benzyl Salicylate
    Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone
    Isoeugenol
    Farnesol
    CI 15985 (FD&C Yellow No.6)
    Cinnamyl Alcohol
    Citral
    CI17200 (D&C red No. 33)
    CI 42090 (FD&C Blue No. 1)
    CI 60725 (D&C Violet No. 2)

    Similar story on other Serge Luten's boxes. I'm not a chemist, but, as I know, some of these components are just preservatives/conservants, colorants etc. It's impossible to say something about natural/synthetical essences used for this frag because the only indication we have is "parfum (fragrance)".

  21. #21

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Quote Originally Posted by iggy
    These components are listed on my Serge Lutens' Tubereuse Criminelle box:

    Alcohol denat.
    Parfum (fragrance)
    Benzyl alcohol
    Butylphenyl Methylpropional
    Linalool
    Aqua (water)
    Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane
    Geraniol
    Eugenol
    Dipropylene Glycol
    Limonene
    Benzyl Salicylate
    Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone
    Isoeugenol
    Farnesol
    CI 15985 (FD&C Yellow No.6)
    Cinnamyl Alcohol
    Citral
    CI17200 (D&C red No. 33)
    CI 42090 (FD&C Blue No. 1)
    CI 60725 (D&C Violet No. 2)

    Similar story on other Serge Luten's boxes. I'm not a chemist, but, as I know, some of these components are just preservatives/conservants, colorants etc. It's impossible to say something about natural/synthetical essences used for this frag because the only indication we have is "parfum (fragrance)".

    Those other substances (citral, isoeugenol, limonene, geraniol, etc) are in fact fragrances. From what I understand, those fragrance additives that are known irritants are required to be labeled on boxes in the EU. The 'parfum' ingredient must be the oils that they aren't required to declare. I hope I am making sense

    -ben
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    This is an issue I am very passionate about. My mother is one of tens of thousands of people who suffer from chemical sensitivity. She is literally dying because of exposure to all the chemicals that fill our daily lives. Some people are more sensitive than others, but a recent study found 100 chemicals in a newborn's cord blood. We are killing ourselves by putting scotchguard on our furniture, eating foods with chemicals and using products (like perfume) with chemicals that seep into our skin. The all-natural parfums are more expensive, but what price are you willing to pay for your health? I discovered an absolutely fabulous parfumist named Jane Hendler. She has AJNE which is featured in this month's In Style Magazine. She has mens' and womens' fragrance lines that are 100% natural. She doesn't use ANY synthetic ingredients and her scents are divine. Check them out at www.ajne.com I'd rather pay for a fragrance I know isn't loaded with chemicals that bottom line, the human body wasn't meant to absorb.

  23. #23

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    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Quote Originally Posted by elizabeth mink
    This is an issue I am very passionate about. My mother is one of tens of thousands of people who suffer from chemical sensitivity. She is literally dying because of exposure to all the chemicals that fill our daily lives. Some people are more sensitive than others, but a recent study found 100 chemicals in a newborn's cord blood. We are killing ourselves by putting scotchguard on our furniture, eating foods with chemicals and using products (like perfume) with chemicals that seep into our skin. The all-natural parfums are more expensive, but what price are you willing to pay for your health? I discovered an absolutely fabulous parfumist named Jane Hendler. She has AJNE which is featured in this month's In Style Magazine. She has mens' and womens' fragrance lines that are 100% natural. She doesn't use ANY synthetic ingredients and her scents are divine. Check them out at www.ajne.com I'd rather pay for a fragrance I know isn't loaded with chemicals that bottom line, the human body wasn't meant to absorb.

    Everything in this world is made up of chemicals, even natural stuff. Water is a chemical.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    I understand that, of course. However, I'm talking about synthetic man-made chemicals. Our bodies were designed to absorb water, just not all the chemicals we've put in the water.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Quote Originally Posted by elizabeth mink
    I understand that, of course. However, I'm talking about synthetic man-made chemicals. Our bodies were designed to absorb water, just not all the chemicals we've put in the water.
    Chemophobia and nature worship make you look superstitious, not wise.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Quote Originally Posted by elizabeth mink
    I understand that, of course. However, I'm talking about synthetic man-made chemicals. Our bodies were designed to absorb water, just not all the chemicals we've put in the water.
    There are three problems with this position:

    First, natural does not equal safe. Oakmoss is natural, but it is a skin irritant to some people. Arsenic is natural. Poison ivy is natural.

    Second, synthetic does not equal unsafe. Many life-saving drugs, for instance, are synthetic.

    Third, "natural" and "synthetic" are false dichotomies. Quinine can be extracted from the bark of a South American tree. However, the quinine in your tonic water is generally synthesized from tar. Yet, chemically, quinine is quinine, no matter how it started.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Quote Originally Posted by elizabeth mink
    I understand that, of course. However, I'm talking about synthetic man-made chemicals. Our bodies were designed to absorb water, just not all the chemicals we've put in the water.
    There are three problems with this position:

    First, natural does not equal safe. Oakmoss is natural, but it is a skin irritant to some people. Arsenic is natural. Poison ivy is natural.

    Second, synthetic does not equal unsafe. Many life-saving drugs, for instance, are synthetic.

    Third, "natural" and "synthetic" are false dichotomies. Quinine can be extracted from the bark of a South American tree. However, the quinine in your tonic water is generally synthesized from tar. Yet, chemically, quinine is quinine, no matter how it started.

  28. #28

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    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Quote Originally Posted by elizabeth mink
    I understand that, of course. However, I'm talking about synthetic man-made chemicals. Our bodies were designed to absorb water, just not all the chemicals we've put in the water.
    Pollen is 100% natural and not man made and is one of the mosr common allergens. There are plenty of natural chemicals that are very dangerous to our health. Natural does not mean safe and synthetic or man-made does not mean dangerous.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    I think it's quite obvious (or apparently not) what elizabeth mink is trying to say. She's not necessarily saying (I don't think) that every single man-made chemical is bad, nor is every single "all natural 'chemical'" good. That's ludicrous. We know, you know it, she knows it, about everyone knows it. But you can't sit here and say "water is a chemical" or "Arsenic is natural" with a pompous attitude all the while discounting the facts regarding the potential health hazards and proven, detrimental consequences of numerous "man-made chemicals."

    Ok, ok, before anything of nature and its inherent hazardous properties is mentioned, I think it's fair to say that it's well known in First World countries that large amounts of CO2 or NaCl (salt) or sun or, yes, DiHydrogen Oxide (joke; water) is BAD FOR YOU. NO KIDDING. Her point, which is so readily being shot down, is that a large percentage of mass produced chemicals created in laboratories with the intention of human consumption (?fragrances?, sweetener, insecticide, hormone injected cattle, etc... etc... etc...) have been proven to be carcinogens. The majority of them are made in the eye of the almighty dollar; that should tell you something. -"Screw the testing! Screw the possible side effects of these chemicals!"- Man-made, synthesized compunds are more likely to be carcinogenic than compunds found in nature. Pure and simple. Therefore, hesitating before the willful use of certain beautiful smelling chemicals becomes a habit, elizabeth mink took the route of au naturale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xplo
    "Chemophobia and nature worship make you look superstitious, not wise."
    I think there's question to this statement. I won't go too far into my personal views, but "chemophobia" is a strong word, as is "nature worship." Both, in this context, capricious and arbitrary. Both extrapolated through only a few sentences.

    Please, don't get me wrong. There's a lot to be said of this era and its advancements. Many of us live a richer life because of it. Fragrances just one facet. Nevertheless, here we, as human beings, all sit with the longest life expectency this species has had since it's evolution/creation. That's a great thing, isn't it? I want to have more of it and that is exactly why I and others like to question the possibility of the unnecessary use of synthesized, untested and virtually unknown chemicals.


    Edit: Ugh, this thread is over 6 months old isn't it?
    Last edited by Motecuzoma; 29th September 2006 at 05:00 AM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Natural or not??

    Thank you for saying it better than I did. That is EXACTLY my point. And while this thread is old, it's new to me because I'm a new member, and apparantly it's a very passionate topic for some. I just wonder, if we all readily admit there are plenty of things in nature that are bad for us, why so many people unwilling to admit there are tons of man-made chemicals that are bad for us too? What about the recall of Teflon pans and the link to cancer? Are we still arguing that Teflon is good? We used those for years. Parabin (sp) which is found in lotion and is a plasticizer has been linked to testical shrinkage and low sperm count. Does anyone think it's still worth using lotions with parabins? And my last question what do people have AGAINST naturals?
    Last edited by elizabeth mink; 29th September 2006 at 04:22 PM.

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Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000