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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Hmmm. You still haven't said whether you agree with my hypothesis. You ARE hedging. 90%??? Where did that number come from? That would imply that 10% of the time men wear feminine fragrances, it's perfectly appropriate and virtually everyone would consider it normal, using your experimental method. Blah blah blah 2 standard deviations, and it's really very possibly more than that. So if we use your model, you are willing to accept that many men wearing feminine fragrances would be considered normal. And that's even your best case scenario, since if your experiment fails, the percentage of those who wouldn't be able to divide them would be EVEN HIGHER! You're willing to accept numbers like that? Heck, fewer than 10% of men wear bowties--men wearing feminine fragrances would be more commonly acceptable than that??? So you basically do agree, admit it, men wearing feminine fragrances, in many instances, would be perfectly normal and undetectable as judged by "random observers". You are not willing to even create an experimental model that would disagree with me!

    Give me a stronger null hypothesis. If I drop a rock it will fall down, I mean 100% of the time, not 90%. If you imply that it is always inappropriate for men to wear feminine fragrances, that's 100%, right? Not 90%? I was trying to get you and others to accept that it is ever appropriate, even 1% of the time--but you are already willing to say that the best you think you can do is 10%. Cool. I guess I'm not going to make any money on this after all, but hopefully there will be no more silliness about it NEVER being appropriate for men to wear "feminine fragrances" since apparently NO ONE here actually believes he or anyone else can consistently tell the difference.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by docluv45
    Hmmm. *You still haven't said whether you agree with my hypothesis. *You ARE hedging. *90%??? Where did that number come from? *That would imply that 10% of the time men wear feminine fragrances, it's perfectly appropriate and virtually everyone would consider it normal, using your experimental method. *Blah blah blah 2 standard deviations, and it's really very possibly more than that. *So if we use your model, you are willing to accept that many men wearing feminine fragrances would be considered normal. *And that's even your best case scenario, since if your experiment fails, the percentage of those who wouldn't be able to divide them would be EVEN HIGHER! *You're willing to accept numbers like that? *Heck, fewer than 10% of men wear bowties--men wearing feminine fragrances would be more commonly acceptable than that??? *So you basically do agree, admit it, men wearing feminine fragrances, in many instances, would be perfectly normal and undetectable as judged by "random observers". *You are not willing to even create an experimental model that would disagree with me!

    Give me a stronger null hypothesis. *If I drop a rock it will fall down, I mean 100% of the time, not 90%. *If you imply that it is always inappropriate for men to wear feminine fragrances, that's 100%, right? *Not 90%? *I was trying to get you and others to accept that it is ever appropriate, even 1% of the time--but you are already willing to say that the best you think you can do is 10%. *Cool. *I guess I'm not going to make any money on this after all, but hopefully there will be no more silliness about it NEVER being appropriate for men to wear "feminine fragrances" since apparently NO ONE here actually believes he or anyone else can consistently tell the difference.
    I only picked the 90% figure because in demographic terms, it's a very significant percentage of the three populations I listed, and I thought I'd try be fair and give your hypothesis a reasonable, albeit very low, probability of success.

    But if you don't like 90%, make the figure 99% or 99.99%. Whatever you like. It's just that at these higher percentages all you need is one repondee to pick all the scents correctly, and it blows your hypothesis away. I was only trying to give your hypothesis some meagre chance.
    Renato

  3. #63

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    I don't care about what particular scents other guys choose to wear, it is their business.
    However, I do care when I come a Male Fragrance Discussion site to discuss Male Fragrance, and find that something that is not a Male Fragrance is being discussed - and espoused.
    When I want to discuss Female Fragrance, as I sometimes do and have, I go to the Female Fragrance discussion board.
    I consider the "Male Fragrance" discussion board to encompass both fragrances labelled "male" AND fragrances worn by males, regardless of marketing label. I've discovered some great fragrances that I might not have known about or considered trying because of the people on this board who are willing to ignore marketing labels. If those labels are meaningful to you, fine. However, to many of us they just don't mean much or anything.

    --Steve
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Let me get this straight. We select 62 random people. All of them try their best to determine which of ten scents are officially designated as masculine or feminine. If one, even only one(!), can actually accurately determine which are which--this you say, proves that masculine and feminine fragrances are so clearly and obviously different? Even if 61 could not tell the difference??? Is there even one other basenoter who would stand by this logic? Maybe someone with a math or science background? If you make your sample size big enough the chances that coin-flips could accurately identify the gender of the fragrances becomes a possibility. That's supposed to prove something? You still have not indicated that you disagree with my hypothesis--am I to assume that you are playing games with me now?

    Please explain how, in plain English, without the pseudostatistical mumbo-jumbo, how your study would disprove my hypothesis.

    My hypothesis is explicit: There are fragrances marketed to women that smell great on men; and that men or women, if not cued beforehand, would not be able to tell which sex would be "most appropriate" to wear them. That's it.


  5. #65

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    While this subject does make for some spirited discussion, it is my opinion, that all it really comes down to is a matter of preference. I happen to have and wear many scents marketed at women. And I know people who wouldn't be caught dead wearing one. To each their own, I say.

    Regards,
    Steve

  6. #66

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellsLike
    I consider the "Male Fragrance" discussion board to encompass both fragrances labelled "male" AND fragrances worn by males, regardless of marketing label. I've discovered some great fragrances that I might not have known about or considered trying because of the people on this board who are willing to ignore marketing labels. If those labels are meaningful to you, fine. However, to many of us they just don't mean much or anything.

    --Steve
    At the moment, the top of the board says, "This board is for the discussion of men's fragrance".
    It does not say "This is a board for the discussion of men's fragrance and for the discussion of men wearing feminine fragrances".

    Within this context, I have no problem with people saying that fragrance X has been mis-categorised, and could just as easily have been labelled a man's scent and is, therefore, a unisex scent which men could consider wearing.

    But when the discussion is unambiguously about wearing feminine fragrances well, there is another discussion site which states "This board is for the discussion of feminine fragrances ".

    What exactly is the problem with discussing feminine fragrances in the Female Fragrance discussion board, which is there just for that purpose?

    There will necessarily be far more great fragrances that you might not have known about or considered trying, raised at that site in any single day, than you'd find here in a month.

    Anyhow, they're my thoughts. But at the end of the day, this is Grant's board. If he suggests I pull my head in - then that'll be fine by me.
    Renato



  7. #67

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by docluv45
    Let me get this straight. *We select 62 random people. *All of them try their best to determine which of ten scents are officially designated as masculine or feminine. *If one, even only one(!), can actually accurately determine which are which--this you say, proves that masculine and feminine fragrances are so clearly and obviously different? *Even if 61 could not tell the difference??? *Is there even one other basenoter who would stand by this logic? *Maybe someone with a math or science background? *If you make your sample size big enough the chances that coin-flips could accurately identify the gender of the fragrances becomes a possibility. * *That's supposed to prove something? *You still have not indicated that you disagree with my hypothesis--am I to assume that you are playing games with me now? *

    Please explain how, in plain English, without the pseudostatistical mumbo-jumbo, how your study would disprove my hypothesis.

    My hypothesis is explicit: *There are fragrances marketed to women that smell great on men; and that men or women, if not cued beforehand, would not be able to tell which sex would be "most appropriate" to wear them. *That's it.
    Noooooo!

    Let's try this again. If you thought there was a difference between men and women's perception in relation to your hypothesis, then you'd do two samples each of 31. But if you didn't want to differentiate, one sample of 31 would suffice (Remembering, however, that if you want more certainty in the result you'd want a bigger sample - they use a sample of 1200 in your elections to get good results for your country, but in Australia with a population less than a tenth the size of the US, they have to use samples of 2000 to get good results).

    Your hypothesis is,
    "There are fragrances marketed to women that smell great on men; and that men or women, if not cued beforehand, would not be able to tell which sex would be "most appropriate" to wear them. "

    As it stands it is measurable - the implication is that 100% of men and women would not be able to tell. If one is indeed able to tell the difference, then your hypothesis is undeniably wrong. End of story.

    That is why I suggested the lesser figure of 90% - I wasn't hedging anything as you later suggested.

    You could have suggested an even lesser figure of say 50%, arguing that that figure is still a significant proportion of the market - and you could do the sampling to test that hypothesis.

    You could have gone for a figure of 10% of the people being unable to tell the difference - and sampled to test that hypothesis, but I'd have argued as to what the relevance of that test would have been, as the percentage is starting to get pretty small.

    Quite frankly, I'd be really impressed if your hypothesis was proved at the 80% level.
    Renato

  8. #68

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Excuse me...but didn't you (Renato) start this thread about wearing fragrances marketed to women? I say quit complaining about it when you started it! And what's up with this semantics argument? If I OWN a bottle of perfume and since I am a guy, doesn't that make it a man's fragrance (I will answer my own question...Yes, It does!). Or, should we change the name of the discussion to "Marketed To Male Fragrance Discussion"? I think the title of this discussion board means men discussing fragrances anyway...and not discussing fragrances marketed to men. I guess it could be read either way but why argue about it? Is it going to change the world?


  9. #69

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by paintrman
    Excuse me...but didn't you (Renato) start this thread about wearing fragrances marketed to women? I say quit complaining about it when you started it! And what's up with this semantics argument? If I OWN a bottle of perfume and since I am a guy, doesn't that make it a man's fragrance (I will answer my own question...Yes, It does!). Or, should we change the name of the discussion to "Marketed To Male Fragrance Discussion"? I think the title of this discussion board means men discussing fragrances anyway...and not discussing fragrances marketed to men. I guess it could be read either way but why argue about it? Is it going to change the world?

    [blue]I have to say, I am in total agreement with paintrman here.


    In my first post to this thread, I noted the following:[blue]

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    Believing in hard and fast categories and holding to them is one way of looking at the world and, if you're not really interested in forcing that belief on others, a perfectly valid way.
    [blue]and unfortunately this has what the thread has turned out to be all about according to how I see it:[/blue]

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    Regardless, as I said in my earlier response it is my understanding that this is a Male Fragrance Discussion board, not a Fragance Discussion board for Males. To my mind, the discussion of female scents is generally something that would be more appropriately done in the Female Fragrance Discussion board - which is not a Fragrance Discussion board solely for females, but a place where both males and females are free to discuss female scents.
    Renato

    [blue]And as I suggested in my first post to this thread, this is a very disingenuous thread really pretending to want to know why many of us wear fragrances labeled as feminine, but ultimately a thread that is designed to divide and conquer. What would the world according to Renato look like. Would we all have to be sniffed at the door in order to enter? “You smell like a ‘girl’, off to the women’s board with you.” All I can say is I am glad it’s Grant at the door, and I am glad to be in the company of people like SmellsLike, paintrman, bonni, absynthium. ^myself^, robyogi, GraySwan, smellitnow, pluran, perfectscent, docluv, foetidus, stevolution, sjas1962. I don’t think we’re all deviants, as clearly suggested by your cross dresser comparison Renato, and I don’t think we should all be shipped off to the women’s board.

    I think this thread has deteriorated into posturing as I predicted it would despite the best intentions of those who tried to make their motivations understood about why they wear fragrances marketed at women. Renato, you can reply to my post if you want, but I won’t be reading your reply. I don’t think, in this case, you’re really interested in genuine dialogue.

    Respectfully,

    scentemental[/blue]



  10. #70

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    As it stands it is measurable - the implication is that 100% of men and women would not be able to tell. If one is indeed able to tell the difference, then your hypothesis is undeniably wrong. End of story.
    I think we're diverting from an interesting topic to something that, with all respect, holds no ground. If the solution to the gender issue was that simple, fragrance manufacturers would have eagerly made it their own decades ago.

    I've talked to perfumers about the gender divide issue. Just like Renato, I wanted to understand why there is a male and a female section in perfume shops (or on Basenotes, for that matter); if classifications really are as rigid as often suggested; if there is an intrinsic difference by which one can accurately determine wether a fragrance is masculine or feminine.

    In my first phone call with perfumer René Morgenthaler, many years ago, I got a reply that other industry professionals would later systematically confirm, on and on. The general consensus among pros is that there are no INTRINSIC gender qualities to perfume. To the exception of Edmond Roudnitska and Sophia Grosjman, I haven't read of any perfumer who believes in fixed recipes. What they differ on, is what they believe to be the cause of the gender divide in the first place. Most of them will tell you to check with the marketing department. Marketing people, in their turn, will tell you about the wonderful visions they have.

    Thing is, gender differentiation is as REAL as people want it to be. That makes it a social fact. Offering separate Male and Female Fragrance Boards makes sense, because it's a reflection of the way people USE perfume. It has nothing to do with ingredients, mixing ratios, volatility rates, or any other properties of the juice. When I smell Chanel No.5 I think "woman"; not because my hormones told me so, but because I've smelled it on women many, many times. By contrast, if I smell Voleur de Roses, I simply don't know. It doesn't trigger gender-specific associations in my mind; first of all because I don't recall having smelled it "live" on someone else, second because I find it quite different from the stuff I'm familiar with.

    I'm thinking of making Jicky my next purchase, and honestly: the only thing I smell there is a delicious fragrance. I think Sean Connery as well as the lady behind the perfume counter; in both cases the fragrance makes absolute sense to me.
    [font=verdana][url=http://del.icio.us/scentedpages][b]my bookmarks on del.icio.us[/b][/url][/font]
    [font=verdana][url=http://www.nstperfume.com/perfume-books/][b]my book reviews on NST[/b][/url][/font]
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  11. #71

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by paintrman
    Excuse me...but didn't you (Renato) start this thread about wearing fragrances marketed to women? *I say quit complaining about it when you started it! *And what's up with this semantics argument? *If I OWN a bottle of perfume and since I am a guy, doesn't that make it a man's fragrance (I will answer my own question...Yes, It does!). *Or, should we change the name of the discussion to "Marketed To Male Fragrance Discussion"? *I think the title of this discussion board means men discussing fragrances anyway...and not discussing fragrances marketed to men. *I guess it could be read either way but why argue about it? *Is it going to change the world?
    I am pretty sure that when Grant set up the board he had no intention of setting up a completely sexist board which was limited to "men discussing fragrances" as you have put it. Membership has always been open to both sexes ever since I can remember, and there have always been women here who contributed to the discussion of male fragrances.

    To my mind, it can only be read either way if one chooses to be oblivious to the main Basenotes site.

    I own and have owned hundreds of women's scents. The fact that I purchased them and owned them for a while did not make them male scents, in my opinion.
    Renato

  12. #72

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental

    And as I suggested in my first post to this thread, this is a very disingenuous thread really pretending to want to know why many of us wear fragrances labeled as feminine, but ultimately a thread that is designed to divide and conquer. What would the world according to Renato look like. Would we all have to be sniffed at the door in order to enter? “You smell like a ‘girl’, off to the women’s board with you.” All I can say is I am glad it’s Grant at the door, and I am glad to be in the company of people like SmellsLike, paintrman, bonni, absynthium. ^myself^, robyogi, GraySwan, smellitnow, pluran, perfectscent, docluv, foetidus, stevolution, sjas1962. I don’t think we’re all deviants, as clearly suggested by your cross dresser comparison Renato, and I don’t think we should all be shipped off to the women’s board.

    I think this thread has deteriorated into posturing as I predicted it would despite the best intentions of those who tried to make their motivations understood about why they wear fragrances marketed at women. Renato, you can reply to my post if you want, but I won’t be reading your reply. I don’t think, in this case, you’re really interested in genuine dialogue.

    Respectfully,

    scentemental
    Hi Again Scentemental,
    If you check my first post, I wasn't asking for genuine understanding, I asked if anyone had had negative experiences from wearing female scents. And that seems to have been answered with a resounding "No". Fair enough, my question was answered.

    Later I asked if people routinely wore female scents in situations where there was importance or possible negative consequences e.g. job interviews/ first dates. The answer (or lack of answers) would indicate a "No" to that question as well - which struck me as being in stark contrast to the cavalier 'wear whatever female scent you want whenever you want' attitude. It strikes me that while I'm being accused of censorship (which is plainly incorrect, as I've only suggested the discussion is more appropriate on another board), far more people appear guilty of extreme self censorship in normal everyday life.

    From my perspective, I observe many people rigidly and adamantly refusing to even consider the possibility or appropriateness of discussing female fragances on the Female Fragrance discussion site, and then accusing me of being rigid.

    As for the crossdresser comparison, well, I've got nothing against crossdressers - they've never bothered me. I am sure they would argue black and blue that clothes are only bits of material - cloth, wool, cotton, leather, synthetics, dye - and that men have worn skirts, sarongs and lace over the centuries, and still do in numerous countries in the world, and the notion that pink is feminine is purely a marketing ploy/ cultural conditioning. All of which is pretty hard to argue against. It doesn't bother me, I'm not sure why it should bother others.
    Renato

  13. #73

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Oh, how could I NOT weigh in...

    When fragrance bottles start sprouting genitalia, then I will start grouping them into two separate cabinets: blue for the boy scents and pink for the girl scents. (and I will only allow supervised visits between the two. Heaven knows what bastard love child scents one could end up raising and supporting...)

    Until then, for me, for this nose, I don't care who a scent is marketed to. If it smells good, it IS good and I will wear it and enjoy it. I'm 52, big, hairy, burly, bearish and I like my smells and I don't care who thinks I'm girly or femmy or unmasculine, it is absolutely none of my business what others think of me. My own private bliss is not predicated on the opinions or approval of others.

    So there.

    Of course this is just for me. Renato, I would defend to the death your right to not wear a scent you don't like, for whatever reason including a fear that you might be considered less of a man for wearing a women's scent which is of course, silly because to us, you are and will always be, ALL man and no scent can diminish that reality.

    Griff

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  14. #74

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcello
    [quote author=Renato link=1144672219/60#66 date=1144761752]As it stands it is measurable - the implication is that 100% of men and women would not be able to tell. If one is indeed able to tell the difference, then your hypothesis is undeniably wrong. End of story.
    I think we're diverting from an interesting topic to something that, with all respect, holds no ground. If the solution to the gender issue was that simple, fragrance manufacturers would have eagerly made it their own decades ago.

    I've talked to perfumers about the gender divide issue. Just like Renato, I wanted to understand why there is a male and a female section in perfume shops (or on Basenotes, for that matter); if classifications really are as rigid as often suggested; if there is an intrinsic difference by which one can accurately determine wether a fragrance is masculine or feminine.

    In my first phone call with perfumer René Morgenthaler, many years ago, I got a reply that other industry professionals would later systematically confirm, on and on. The general consensus among pros is that there are no INTRINSIC gender qualities to perfume. To the exception of Edmond Roudnitska and Sophia Grosjman, I haven't read of any perfumer who believes in fixed recipes. What they differ on, is what they believe to be the cause of the gender divide in the first place. Most of them will tell you to check with the marketing department. Marketing people, in their turn, will tell you about the wonderful visions they have.

    Thing is, gender differentiation is as REAL as people want it to be. That makes it a social fact. Offering separate Male and Female Fragrance Boards makes sense, because it's a reflection of the way people USE perfume. It has nothing to do with ingredients, mixing ratios, volatility rates, or any other properties of the juice. When I smell Chanel No.5 I think "woman"; not because my hormones told me so, but because I've smelled it on women many, many times. By contrast, if I smell Voleur de Roses, I simply don't know. It doesn't trigger gender-specific associations in my mind; first of all because I don't recall having smelled it "live" on someone else, second because I find it quite different from the stuff I'm familiar with.

    I'm thinking of making Jicky my next purchase, and honestly: the only thing I smell there is a delicious fragrance. I think Sean Connery as well as the lady behind the perfume counter; in both cases the fragrance makes absolute sense to me.[/quote]
    Hi Marcello,
    I don't agree that Perfumer's are the experts to be consulting with on gender divide issues. They haven't researched and studied it. The experts are those researchers who have studied the differences between male and female brains, and the psychologists who have studied male and female psychology. For two decades the world was drawn into the feminist mantra that there was no difference between males and females - a philosophy which is still disastrously popular among administrators - but which rapidly evolving technology and subsequent science has shown to be incorrect.
    Perfumers may espouse their egalitarian ideals all they want, but they don't make much money trying to market wood and leather scents to women, and purely floral scents to men.
    When I smell Chanel 5 and other women's floral scents, I think they're womens scents because I dislike them as much now as I did when I first remember coming across them when I was three.
    I will agree with you that I can't fathom Voleur de Roses - I like it for 15 minutes, then start detesting strongly. I then thought it was too feminine. So I was surprised when one woman stated she would never wear it as it was too masculine.
    Renato

  15. #75

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Griff
    Oh, how could I NOT weigh in...

    When fragrance bottles start sprouting genitalia, then I will start grouping them into two separate cabinets: blue for the boy scents and pink for the girl scents. (and I will only allow supervised visits between the two. Heaven knows what bastard love child scents one could end up raising and supporting...)

    Until then, for me, for this nose, I don't care who a scent is marketed to. If it smells good, it IS good and I will wear it and enjoy it. I'm 52, big, hairy, burly, bearish and I like my smells *and I don't care who thinks I'm girly or femmy or unmasculine, it is absolutely none of my business what others think of me. My own private bliss is not predicated on the opinions or approval of others.

    So there.

    Of course this is just for me. Renato, I would defend to the death your right to not wear a scent you don't like, for whatever reason including a fear that you might be considered less of a man for wearing a women's scent which is of course, silly because to us, you are and will always be, ALL man and no scent can diminish that reality.

    Griff
    Hi Griff,
    But I do have separate draws - the unisex and iffy ones on her side of my bed, and all the good ones on my side!
    Renato
    P.S. I love your attitude.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.

    Albert Einstein

  17. #77

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    Hi Griff,
    But I do have separate draws - the unisex and iffy ones on her side of my bed, and all the good ones on my side!
    Renato
    P.S. I love your attitude.
    Thanks Renato. It gets me through the day. All that really matters is the BIG questions:

    Which side of the bed is Kouros on?
    Which ones on your side are babe magnets?

    ;-)

    Griff
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  18. #78

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    First of all, I don't want to offend anyone, I can be wrong and It's JUST my humble opinion:
    It really annoys me to see threads about fragrances marketed as feminine in the male board. And That's because I won't participate due to the fact I don't like to wear fragrances marketed as feminine (but I have no problem with people that like to do so. I think you must wear everything you want, at the time you want).
    I really do think "feminine" fragrances must be commented at the female discussion board by males and females. But I insist: It's just my personal opinion and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

  19. #79
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    Default Take my money

    I don't mind discussing masculine fragrances here and feminine fragrances there at all. It's just that I feel I am a better judge of what is masculine or feminine to me than any marketing people. That's been my point all along.

    By the way, still no takers to my challenge. I can't find a single person who believes he can reliably tell the marketers' gender of 10 unlabelled fragrances. If no one here can consistently tell--and we're arguably the most interested parties around!--then who really can?

  20. #80

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Per-Fume.....Per Fume...Through 'smoke'...Through 'smoke'---THROUGH

    Modalities are neutral

    To make a target out of the arrow is to miss the point.

  21. #81

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Griff
    Thanks Renato. It gets me through the day. All that really matters is the BIG questions:

    Which side of the bed is Kouros on?
    Which ones on your side are babe magnets?

    ;-)

    Griff
    Hi Griff,
    * * The Kouros is on my side, the Kouros Sport on her side (because I ran out of room on my side).
    After nearly 3 years of going out with her, I think I've found my perfect woman (good cook, likes ironing my shirts) so I have a whole bunch of redundant babe magnets hanging around.
    Renato

  22. #82

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by docluv45
    I got no problem with people who want to limit themselves doing so. I have no argument with those who feel safer wearing only fragrances marketed to their proper gender. If people are scared of having their fragrance recognized as a feminine fragrance or think that they will be branded as sissies or girlymen for their choices, by all means run if you see a fragrance from the women's counter on the shelf.
    ;D

    I've been wearing "men's" fragrances since I was a teenager. If I like the smell of the thing on me, I wear it, I don't worry about the marketing. And, amazingly, I've never, never, ever been confused for a man, nor thought of as masculine. I'm one of the most womanly women anyone is likely to meet (although I'm not especially "girly&quot.

    Honestly, if you can't get past the marketing and the label, don't wear it, it's as simple as that. But if you like it and it smells good on you, DO wear it, and don't worry so much about what the marketing department tells you you should or shouldn't do. It's your nose and your skin, use what you want.

    bonni
    "Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a boy puts on shaving cologne and they go out and smell each other."
    -Karl, age 5

  23. #83

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by bonni
    I've been wearing "men's" fragrances since I was a teenager. If I like the smell of the thing on me, I wear it, I don't worry about the marketing. And, amazingly, I've never, never, ever been confused for a man, nor thought of as masculine. I'm one of the most womanly women anyone is likely to meet (although I'm not especially "girly&quot.

    Honestly, if you can't get past the marketing and the label, don't wear it, it's as simple as that. But if you like it and it smells good on you, DO wear it, and don't worry so much about what the marketing department tells you you should or shouldn't do. It's your nose and your skin, use what you want.

    bonni
    And I for one, would certainly value your input and expertise to any discussion of those male fragrances here on this board. And any posting where you described your favourites.

    Actually, you would be in the interesting position of being able to start a "Which male scent turns guys on" thread - but let's not go there. *
    Alternatively, a "Which male scent on a woman gets the most compliments" would certainly be interesting.
    Renato

  24. #84

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    And any posting where you described your favourites.
    Lately I've been wearing Miracle Homme, actually. Bought it for my husband and I like it so much I started wearing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    Actually, you would be in the interesting position of being able to start a "Which male scent turns guys on" thread
    LOL! I don't know. I sort of think it's not the scent that does it...

    bonni
    "Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a boy puts on shaving cologne and they go out and smell each other."
    -Karl, age 5

  25. #85

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by bonni
    LOL! I don't know. I sort of think it's not the scent that does it...

    bonni
    Believe me - some times it really is the scent. I am pretty sure I would never have gotten together with my previous girlfriend if it hadn't been for Angel.

    I must test out Miracle Homme - I've never really given it a chance.
    Renato

  26. #86

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato

    ...Actually, you would be in the interesting position of being able to start a "Which male scent turns guys on" thread - but let's not go there.

    Renato
    [red]Yes, let's go there ! [/red]
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  27. #87

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus
    [quote author=Renato link=1144672219/75#82 date=1144824897]

    ...Actually, you would be in the interesting position of being able to start a "Which male scent turns guys on" thread - but let's not go there. *

    Renato
    [red]Yes, let's go there ! [/red][/quote]
    Things might get a bit sqeamish - I have a funny feeling that if there were a lot of responses - it may be one of those cases of too much information - and every time I pick up one of the scents mentioned, I'll remember that it turned man x or y on. Eeech.
    Renato

  28. #88

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    Believe me - some times it really is the scent. I am pretty sure I would never have gotten together with my previous girlfriend if it hadn't been for Angel.
    Actually, in another thread (in the girly forum, hehe) we were talking about natural body fragrance, and I sort of realized after mulling it over a long time that my ex had a really fantastic personal body scent. I've always kind of wondered what attracted me to him, as he's kind of a doofus, but now I'm wondering if I really am so able to be influenced by scent that his personal fragrance was that much of a draw.... I still remember how fantastic he smelled (and what a moron he turned out to be, but that's another story that I shan't tell here, much to everyone's relief, I'm sure).

    Actually, when I was a teenager, I used to wear this really cheap men's cologne called "Hawk" or something along those lines (just checked, it's in the directory!). It had a sort of sweet/spicy thing going on and it wasn't uncommon for someone (usually male) to compliment me on my fragrance. I always just smiled and said, "Thank you, I like it, too!"



    bonni
    "Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a boy puts on shaving cologne and they go out and smell each other."
    -Karl, age 5

  29. #89

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by bonni
    [quote author=Renato link=1144672219/75#84 date=1144825903]
    Believe me - some times it really is the scent. I am pretty sure I would never have gotten together with my previous girlfriend if it hadn't been for Angel.
    Actually, in another thread (in the girly forum, hehe) we were talking about natural body fragrance, and I sort of realized after mulling it over a long time that my ex had a really fantastic personal body scent. I've always kind of wondered what attracted me to him, as he's kind of a doofus, but now I'm wondering if I really am so able to be influenced by scent that his personal fragrance was that much of a draw.... I still remember how fantastic he smelled (and what a moron he turned out to be, but that's another story that I shan't tell here, much to everyone's relief, I'm sure).

    Actually, when I was a teenager, I used to wear this really cheap men's cologne called "Hawk" or something along those lines (just checked, it's in the directory!). It had a sort of sweet/spicy thing going on and it wasn't uncommon for someone (usually male) to compliment me on my fragrance. *I always just smiled and said, "Thank you, I like it, too!"



    bonni[/quote]
    Love is that strong feeling you get from someone who has, is or may satisfy your deepest desires and needs. I suspect that scent may indeed be part of your deepest desires - well, at least on some level.

    I haven't come across something called "Hawk" or hawk like.
    Renato

  30. #90

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Hawk



    Griff
    Griff
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  31. #91

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Understanding everyone is an individual and agreeing with the perception that Regato may have "worded" the post a little differently, i think it heightens discussion and thought, in which everyone wins.

    My personal take is that scents in the form of cologne/parfum etc. are roughly 25% smell (if that). The other 75% come from inner feelings and other aestethic factors. For instance, i will wear a cologne to exude a response.. whether from myself or others that dignifies a personality, sexuality, gender trait, historical values, etc. Being a "traditional" male and being raised in a relatively conservative upbringing, my "package" pulls me toward more masculine scents.. for instance Gendarme V (conservative and traditional) or Guerlain Vetiver (once again.. a traditional, gentlemanly scent). Whereas a Creed Spring Flowers or Mugler Angel blasts me with a breath of sugar and female seduction and leaves me craving for it on a woman... thats not to say that maybe a man grew up with affectionate parents with liberal views (just an example.. literally thousands of ways this shakes out) that the paradoxical nature of a man/woman attraction to a stereotypical woman/man fragrance. This is a possibility that leaves the attraction from either sex to said opposite sex unnending and totally undefinable, and ultimately acceptable.

    With that said.. people should enjoy the scents they enjoy.. because it initiates a positive sensual response.

    two cents
    n8

  32. #92

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Griff
    Hawk



    Griff
    Hi Griff,
    Is this Hawk still available? I'd been using Mennen stuff for a very long time, but never came across this one.
    And would there have been an aftershave splash version available (I ask because Mennen makes the absolute best aftershave splash on the planet - SkinBracer)
    Renato

  33. #93

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    What do you guys think of the fact that Dzing! and Voleur de Roses for instance were originally "made" for women, and that Michael Edwards doesn`t consider Dzing! to be unisex scent even today...

    Well, I received my La Nuit today, and I`m about to try it quite soon. I`m very excited. [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

  34. #94

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    I will be getting my bottle of La Nuit in just a few hours. I can't wait either. Will report back as soon as I try it.


  35. #95

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon Murderer
    What do you guys think of the fact that (1) Dzing! and Voleur de Roses for instance were originally "made" for women, and that Michael (2) Edwards doesn`t consider Dzing! to be unisex scent even today...
    1 - hmmm, they smell a bit like that, don't they?
    2 - what shelf does Edwards put Dzing?
    :-/ unisex/shared/non-gender scents: aren't they neither fish nor bird, olfactory no-man's-land?
    10 and 16 months ago, in two separate 'tests' EdParf F. Malle decided that Musc Ravageur would be just right for me. According to what i picked up from the female frag discussion board, the very same perfume seems to be constantly recommended also to girls of any age. I think I have had few olfactory inhibitions before. But now I am afraid to develop some kind of olfactory gender phobia! I better never had listened in here, but it was such a fascinating discussion, and on a level far beyond average...
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  36. #96

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon Murderer
    What do you guys think of the fact that Dzing! and Voleur de Roses for instance were originally "made" for women, and that Michael Edwards doesn`t consider Dzing! to be unisex scent even today...

    Well, I received my La Nuit today, and I`m about to try it quite soon. I`m very excited. *[smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]
    Voleur De Roses I've stated here consistently for the last three years seems way too feminine to me to be a unisex scent (which is something I've said about a quite a number of niche scents - the only one I've changed my mind on being Eau de Hadrien).

    Dzing starts of very interesting, then turns to something reminiscent of Bvlgari Black - it never seemed particularly feminine or masculine to me.
    Renato

  37. #97

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    I think, and have always thought, that Michael Edwards is a loony.

  38. #98

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel_Cairo
    I think, and have always thought, that Michael Edwards is a loony.
    Why? He is excellent at classifying scents.
    Renato

  39. #99

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    [quote author=Joel_Cairo link=1144672219/90#96 date=1144949801]I think, and have always thought, that Michael Edwards is a loony.
    Why? He is excellent at classifying scents.
    Renato[/quote]

    classifying yes
    comparing, not as much.

    At that site where you input one frag and he recommends two others I keep getting these totally gonzo recs that I can't even imagine. Seems no matter what i input, the man steadfastly believes Hummer was MADE FOR ME. I just don't get it!

  40. #100

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus
    [quote author=Pigeon Murderer link=1144672219/90#92 date=1144942902]What do you guys think of the fact that (1) Dzing! and Voleur de Roses for instance were originally "made" for women, and that Michael (2) Edwards doesn`t consider Dzing! to be unisex scent even today...
    2 - what shelf does Edwards put Dzing?
    [/quote]

    Dzing! is listed only on femine side, when VdR have appearance on both sides. This Dzing! thing is interesting, since the man considers even A La Nuit (SL) to be suitable on both sexes.

  41. #101

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    Hi Griff,
    Is this Hawk still available? I'd been using Mennen stuff for a very long time, but never came across this one.
    And would there have been an aftershave splash version available (I ask because Mennen makes the absolute best aftershave splash on the planet - SkinBracer)
    Renato
    Sadly, no, it is no longer in production. I don't think there was an AS version of Hawk. But I could be wrong,.

    Griff
    Griff
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    Follow me on FaceBook and Twitter
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  42. #102
    Strange Accord's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Some thoughts:

    The basenotes on a lot of "feminine" fragrances keep them from being overtly feminine.

    Some fragrances are may be too girlish for every day use by a man. I would say the classic soft florals might feel uncomfortable to a man. Vintage 'Je Reviens' by Worth is just flat out a wonderful thing to smell. If you love it, wear it on weekends with someone who is smart enough to love it for the thrilling beauty it is. Don't wear it when with narrow minded people.

    If I met a man wearing a "femine" fragrance I would be impressed. I love independent men.

    My husband is self-confident in a very natural way. He is an impressive guy who doesn't give any thought to what impression he makes. It is obvious to me people have a lot of respect for him. If a man really is happy with how he is living his life he is going to be as impressively confident as a man can be. Then he can wear most any fragrance he finds enjoyable.

    Don't deny youself the pleasure of fragrance masterpieces. In reality the pleasure of excellent fragrances should be freely enjoyed by both genders. Thankfully we don't "genderfy" the senses of taste, touch or sound. As much as we can get away with, we should avoid "genderfying" smell (& sight).

  43. #103

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    RE: Mennen Hawk

    Quote Originally Posted by Griff
    Sadly, no, it is no longer in production.
    It might not have been available in Australia, I don't know. I know that there ARE fragrances that don't get international distribution, or which only have limited distribution on account of being unpopular in some places. Australian tastes and American ones are different in a lot of ways, so maybe it just didn't go over well here (just like Cherry Coke ).

    bonni
    "Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a boy puts on shaving cologne and they go out and smell each other."
    -Karl, age 5

  44. #104

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange_Accord
    Some fragrances are may be too girlish for every day use by a man. I would say the classic soft florals might feel uncomfortable to a man.
    I would agree with that. I can't imagine any man who could get away with wearing Diorissimo, for example. Dioressence, well, maybe, depending on the bloke, but Diorissimo is an old fashioned floral. Unless a man really wants to smell like a bouquet of muguet, roses, and lilac, I think it'd be overwhelming.

    I also wouldn't recomment J'adore on a bloke, but I've been considering spritzing my husband with Dolce Vita and seeing how that goes on him (he won't mind; he's not worried about stuff like people thinking he's girly, because he's very obviously NOT ).

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange_Accord
    If a man really is happy with how he is living his life he is going to be as impressively confident as a man can be. Then he can wear most any fragrance he finds enjoyable.
    I agree 100%. I got my husband to try SJP Lovely (just a test) because I'd heard it'd work as a masculine fragrance and it was pretty nice on him. I asked him if he'd be bothered wearing it and he said, "Well, does it smell nice?" and I nodded and he said, "So what's the problem?" (I haven't got any around, though; I didn't like it all that much.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange_Accord
    Don't deny youself the pleasure of fragrance masterpieces. In reality the pleasure of excellent fragrances should be freely enjoyed by both genders. Thankfully we don't "genderfy" the senses of taste, touch or sound. As much as we can get away with, we should avoid "genderfying" smell (& sight).
    Again, I agree 100%.

    And as it happens, today I'm wearing Miracle Homme and enjoying it very much.

    bonni
    "Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a boy puts on shaving cologne and they go out and smell each other."
    -Karl, age 5

  45. #105

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange_Accord

    Some fragrances are may be too girlish for every day use by a man. *I would say the classic soft florals might feel uncomfortable to a man. *Vintage 'Je Reviens' by Worth is just flat out a wonderful thing to smell. *If you love it, wear it on weekends with someone who is smart enough to love it for the thrilling beauty it is. *Don't wear it when with narrow minded people.

    If I met a man wearing a "femine" fragrance I would be impressed. *I love independent men.

    My husband is self-confident in a very natural way. *He is an impressive guy who doesn't give any thought to what impression he makes. *It is obvious to me people have a lot of respect for him. *If a man really is happy with how he is living his life he is going to be as impressively confident as a man can be. *Then he can wear most any fragrance he finds enjoyable.

    .
    So if on your first date your man came along wearing a nice feminine soft floral - it would have done it for you?

    Have you not been a tad remiss in not letting we poor males know about it in all the ubiquitous "What do women dig threads?" :
    Renato

  46. #106

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Double post removed. How'd that happen?

  47. #107

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by bonni

    It might not have been available in Australia, I don't know. I know that there ARE fragrances that don't get international distribution, or which only have limited distribution on account of being unpopular in some places. Australian tastes and American ones are different in a lot of ways, so maybe it just didn't go over well here (just like Cherry Coke ).

    bonni
    How true.
    I never shed a tear over the demise of the bad Cherry Coke, and the hideous Hershey Bars (though all the other Hershey stuff was very good) - but I really, really regret the demise of Dr.Pepper's from our stores.
    What's wrong with Australians?
    Renato

  48. #108

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    Double post removed. How'd that happen?
    SORRY!

    We seemed to have overlapped!

    I deleted your double post, turned out to be the wrong one!

    Sorry

  49. #109

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoL²
    [quote author=Renato link=1144672219/105#105 date=1145086990]Double post removed. How'd that happen?
    SORRY!

    We seemed to have overlapped!

    I deleted your double post, turned out to be the wrong one!

    Sorry[/quote]
    Hi Col,
    I'm still puzzling as to how I double posted. Anyhow, how about deleting this one, your one, and my "Double Post. How did this happen" one, and everything will go back to how it was intended?
    Thanks,
    Renato

  50. #110
    Strange Accord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Well, fragrance isn't the only factor in choosing a man. If a man was wearing Arpege, which I consider the ultimate tender floral, and he had my husbands other fine qualities I would think that it was quite intriguing that he was wearing it. It would be amazing, amusing and adorable.

  51. #111

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange_Accord
    Well, fragrance isn't the only factor in choosing a man. *If a man was wearing Arpege, which I consider the ultimate tender floral, and he had my husbands other fine qualities I would think that it was quite intriguing that he was wearing it. *It would be amazing, amusing and adorable.
    Don't forget, my question related to a first date situation, where you didn't know that the man possesses your husband's other fine qualities. He knocks at your door, presumably trying to make a good impression - and he's wearing a woman's soft, tender floral.

    I know how I'd feel if the situation were reversed and I knocked on her door - saw her waiting for me all dressed up - and smelling of Quorum, Grey Flannel or Aramis.
    Renato

  52. #112
    Overcome By Fumes
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    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    I know how I'd feel too: * Adventurous fragrance choice, this is my lucky night!


  53. #113

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Well, folks. It finally happened. I never thought it would, but here it is:

    I agree with Renato.

    I still don't quite believe it, but I do.
    Veni, Vidi, Visa.

  54. #114

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by docluv45
    I know how I'd feel too: * Adventurous fragrance choice, this is my lucky night!
    LOL, DocLuv!! I like the way you think....and, I couldn't agree with you more. HA! I laugh in the face of convention! BTW, I'm not ashamed to admit to having dabbed a bit of Quorum behind my ears a time or two before heading out for a night of clubbing....ohhh circa 1985-ish. Ahhh sweet youth. And no, I've never worn a mullet or even considered owning a flannel shirt. I'm a lipstick wearing feminine woman. And while my Quorum days have long since passed...my bottle of Pour Monsieur is always close at hand.

    GraySwan :-*

  55. #115

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    On a lighter note: I remember once asking why the separate boards since womens fragrances are discussed on the male boards and - to a lesser extent - mens fragrances discussed on the female boards and received a reply that may explain stuff to Renato:

    Girls have cooties. ;D
    Veni, Vidi, Visa.

  56. #116

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by FroFro
    Girls have cooties.
    And boys are dumb.

    ;D

    bonni
    "Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a boy puts on shaving cologne and they go out and smell each other."
    -Karl, age 5

  57. #117

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by FroFro
    Well, folks. *It finally happened. *I never thought it would, but here it is:

    I agree with Renato.

    I still don't quite believe it, but I do. *
    What happened?
    How did that happen?
    Renato

  58. #118

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by FroFro
    On a lighter note: *I remember once asking why the separate boards since womens fragrances are discussed on the male boards and - to a lesser extent - mens fragrances discussed on the female boards and received a reply that may explain stuff *to Renato:

    Girls have cooties. * ;D
    I remember one discussion about cooties vividly - as I did not have a clue what they were, nor what anyone was talking about - so I asked for clarification.
    Renato

  59. #119

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by docluv45
    I know how I'd feel too: * Adventurous fragrance choice, this is my lucky night!
    I'd think,

    Adventurous fragrance choice, this might be my lucky night ............mmmm but maybe a Bi girl?, this could be fun .. or weird ..............mmmmm but maybe a Trannie? ........ this might be my unluckiest of nights........... I just remembered an urgent appointment with my dentist. Bye.

  60. #120

    Default Re: Males Wearing Female Fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    I remember one discussion about cooties vividly - as I did not have a clue what they were, nor what anyone was talking about - so I asked for clarification.
    My Aussie husband had no idea what I meant when I said "Eeeuuww! Cooties!" I explained the concept to him and he said, "Ah. Girl germs. Gotcha."



    bonni
    "Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a boy puts on shaving cologne and they go out and smell each other."
    -Karl, age 5

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