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  1. #1

    Default Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at Saks.

    From WWD.com

    Diddy Delivers New Scent to Saks.
    By Julie Naughton and Pete Born

    NEW YORK — No one will ever accuse Sean "Diddy" Combs of being understated.

    The dapper rapper made a very important delivery to Saks Fifth Avenue's Manhattan flagship Thursday morning, driving a Brinks truck packed with the first shipment of Unforgivable, his new men's fragrance for the Estée Lauder Cos.

    Combs is doing two versions of Unforgivable. His first fragrance is a $300 "couture" version which will be carried by Saks Fifth Avenue's Manhattan, Beverly Hills, Atlanta, Bal Harbour and Dadeland stores and Combs' own stores in the U.S., while a less pricy version will bow at about 1,800 department and specialty store doors, including Macy's and Sephora, in mid-February.

    Surveying the screaming crowd of teenage girls crammed behind NYPD barricades, loudly professing their love for Combs, Saks Fifth Avenue's vice chairman, Ron Frasch, observed dryly: "I think Sean is ready for the Tom Ford challenge." Ford's first products for Lauder debuted at Saks in November and shattered the store's personal appearance record, drawing in about 1,000 people and $30,000 in sales.

    As for tackling records, Combs observed, "Tom makes them, I break them." And he has reason to be confident: more than 500 fans stood behind barricades in 38-degree weather just to catch a glimpse of Combs — who was simply making a delivery of the product, not doing a traditional personal appearance where fans are greeted and bottles are signed.

    Before the bottles had even arrived, Saks had pre-sold 11 of the 2.5-oz. eau de parfum units. By the time he left at noon, 30 of the superpricy bottles had been sold, five while he was standing at the counter.

    The bottles are of smoked gray glass in a clear acrylic holder, topped with a gunmetal sculptured cap and packaged in a black keepsake box. The packaging was inspired by Combs' favorite things, including Ferraris, yachts and planes, and his homes around the world. "It's architectural, a mix of classic and contemporary," he told WWD earlier this year. "I saw maybe 20 different bottles, and when I saw this one, I thought it was different and unique and something that I felt would be remembered."

    Frasch and his team agree. "I think that Unforgivable will bring in a new customer base and service the ones we already have," he said. "That's what is so exciting about it."

    Combs, who was scheduled to return to Saks Fifth Avenue Thursday evening to kick off sales for his Sean John women's apparel line, gave consumers a peek at the collection at the fragrance event. Combs was accompanied by two female models clad in his designs — cream dresses topped with cream winter coats with fur collars. Combs himself chose an elegant ensemble from his men's line — a gray cashmere turtleneck, gray pants and a gray jacket, accessorized with diamond stud earrings.

    Combs said that he has already begun work on his women's fragrance, which is expected to be launched in fall 2006. While he was quick to emphasize that there isn't yet a finished juice, he has definite ideas of what mood he wants it to convey: "Right now, I'd have to say that we're looking for something refreshing, yet sensual," he said. Will it be as sexy as his men's scent? "Oh, it will be much sexier," he said with a roguish grin.

    One thing's for sure, however: Combs will stay intimately involved with all of the projects which bear his name, especially the fragrance. "Lots of people, when they do a fragrance license, think of it as just another ancillary," he said. "This is a big deal to me, and it is my brand. I want to be involved in every aspect, from making the fragrance to meeting the sales specialists."

    Combs is also putting the finishing touches on his next album, due in April, and planning to film two movies next year. He's also working on a TV commercial for Unforgivable, which is expected to air this spring.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Well, it sure is unforgivable that EVERYONE does fragrances these days.. :-X
    "Perfume is the dream that carries me."

    There is always the sky to look at

  3. #3

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Likening Coombs to Ford is illogical: YDAN carries forth a longstanding hallmark fragrance for a solidly grounded company (Lauder), in order to update their image in a trendy--and younger--fashion, and to capture a newer market by sensualizing an older (though established) scent.

    I don't see what there is to crow about by stating that the pre-sale figure was 11 bottles. Despite the high ticket, that figure is embarrassing, and certainly indicates lesser interest than people had with the YDAN. Whee. So they pre-sold $3,300. worth of scent? The "screaming teenage girls" weren't customers. They were fans, and they buy his music. They'll have a sniff of the cheaper, Sephora release, which will probably perform fairly decently alongside Nicole Richie Thin is In and Paris Extensions Removed.

    Of course the implication here is that had Coombs been doing a meet-and-greet (and sign and sigh), he'd have outsold Ford, but I'd imagine his customer base is actually smaller than Ford's (via Lauder) and that this is a one-off that isn't likely to break any records over the long haul.


    Heh to "gunmetal" sculptured cap.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Well, I can't see Puff as a cosmetics' customer magnet....
    Personally, I don't like his music and I don't think I'll like his fragrance. :-X

  5. #5

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    I think it's still too early to make judgement of his fragrance.

    However, at a price tag of 300$, I certainly won't be buying it.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    I wouldn't care if it smelled like heaven itself, I won't buy anything with his name on it.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by Noseorgy
    I wouldn't care if it smelled like heaven itself, I won't buy anything with his name on it.
    That seems harsh:

    If its topnotes improved on the scent of seraphs, I'd consider buying Unforgivable. Even so, I'd worry about smelling like my little cousin and several dozen of his friends.

    (Did anyone notice Armani's viciously pungent new line at Saks, which comes in Incense, Amber and two other scents, and features actual stones as bottle caps? I thought Incense more appropriate for one's living room than one's body.)

  8. #8

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by gingerpress
    [quote author=Noseorgy link=1133508189/0#5 date=1133539142]I wouldn't care if it smelled like heaven itself, I won't buy anything with his name on it.
    That seems harsh.[/quote]

    It is harsh and I am fine with that.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by Fresno

    I don't see what there is to crow about by stating that the pre-sale figure was 11 bottles. Despite the high ticket, that figure is embarrassing, and certainly indicates lesser interest than people had with the YDAN. Whee. So they pre-sold $3,300. worth of scent? The "screaming teenage girls" weren't customers. They were fans, and they buy his music. They'll have a sniff of the cheaper, Sephora release, which will probably perform fairly decently alongside Nicole Richie Thin is In and Paris Extensions Removed.

    Actually, they sold 30 bottles @ $300, which would be $9000. That's pretty good, if you ask me.
    The pursuit of philosophy is the hope that there is more to life than we realize. By philosophy, however, we come to realize that in fact there is less to life than previously imagined.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    He's a good businessman. But it really becomes unforgivable when stars try to produce crap (Britney Spears, JLo....Cummings lol)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    The dapper rapper made a very important delivery...
    the dapper rapper... that part made me chuckle. Ever heard of Shahkar Binesh-Pajouh?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4096141.stm
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    [font=verdana][url=http://www.nstperfume.com/perfume-books/][b]my book reviews on NST[/b][/url][/font]
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by Noseorgy
    I wouldn't care if it smelled like heaven itself, I won't buy anything with his name on it.
    Ditto!

    He's just a pompous and arrogant
    thug(ASS)!!
    "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

    "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical...It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson

  13. #13

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    I'd sooner buy a bottle of Eau D'OJ Simpson, because at least there's a chance some of the money will go towards his victims' court settlement. As a general rule, I don't like subsidizing criminals and thugs.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    I'm gonna laugh my @$$ off when puff's fragrance ends up suffering the same fate as trump's .



    Are you not entertained??? Is this not why you are here??

  15. #15

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by Banzaiburger
    I'd sooner buy a bottle of Eau D'OJ Simpson, because at least there's a chance some of the money will go towards his victims' court settlement. As a general rule, I don't like subsidizing criminals and thugs.
    He isn't a "thug"; that's a stereotype. A better reason to dislike him is because he began as a plagiarist and became yet another corrupt A&R person before using his position to market himself as an artist. He was like a publisher who cuts loose popular authors after getting them to improve and hype his own first novel. Some believe Smalls died to make Diddy what he is. Since I'm not in a position to know, I'll stick to verifiable reasons for disliking him: he's a wealthy man who pretends to be creative.

    Even so, I wouldn't mention O.J. in the same breath as P. Diddy, since the one thing they have in common makes the person who lumps them together look as bad as the individuals s/he's condemning. Let's avoid sounding hateful -- especially in ways that don't pertain to mere celebrity.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Of all the stupid names you could ever give a fragrance...

  17. #17

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    I agree completely -- would you want to wear a scent called Inexcusable, Offensive, Blunder or Misdemeanor? I can see the advert now:

    Woman's voice: "Your unpleasant whisper.
    A tasteless profanity.
    That touch of flatulence.
    It's you, really you.
    I love you; there's nothing else."


    Man's voice: "Calvin Combs's Appalling for Men -- now available in stores."

  18. #18

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by Banzaiburger
    I'd sooner buy a bottle of Eau D'OJ Simpson, because at least there's a chance some of the money will go towards his victims' court settlement. As a general rule, I don't like subsidizing criminals and thugs.
    how disgusting of you to say

  19. #19

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    I happen to like Unforgiveable, I don't know if the one at Saks is the same as I bought for $60, but if it is, it's pretty nice. My initial complaint was longevity, but that appears limited to the test bottle, as the last time I wore it, I was very pleased with the lasting power.

    As for Sean Jean, Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, or whatever you want to call him, who cares. I don't know Armani's, Laurens, or any of the other designers politics or personal life, so why would I choose or not choose a fragrance based on that. I'm sure if you looked into all of their lives you would find something you don't like about each designer. Just my 2 cents.


  20. #20

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by jpara
    I happen to like Unforgiveable, I don't know if the one at Saks is the same as I bought for $60, but if it is, it's pretty nice. My initial complaint was longevity, but that appears limited to the test bottle, as the last time I wore it, I was very pleased with the lasting power.

    As for Sean Jean, Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, or whatever you want to call him, who cares. I don't know Armani's, Laurens, or any of the other designers politics or personal life, so why would I choose or not choose a fragrance based on that. I'm sure if you looked into all of their lives you would find something you don't like about each designer. Just my 2 cents.
    you know what, thanks jpara, i totally appreciate your post, but im gonna take this a bit further, frankly - i've seen some disturbing comments come up in a few posts regarding puffy daddy and I'm really getting sick of the obvious racism or semi-tolerance of racism towards blacks on this board. At most what you'll see in response to these viscious posts are this kinda "i know we're all white here but come on lets be nice" type of attitude stuff. Banzai, how could you justify posting that Sean Combs is a criminal and thug other than the fact that you obviously think this of all black people (either that or you pretend to so you can look "cool" and "opinionated" here on basenotes) ? I don't remember him being convicted of anything? from what I know of puff daddy he has some kind of post secondary eduction done, started producing artists in the early 90's an eventually worked up to a succesfull clothing label, record label and now a fragrance. thats some 15 years of hard work coming from very modest beginnings. The guy even ran the boston marathon (or some marathon?) and starred on broadway - I'd say he earned whatever he has. so you can cut the crap about subsidizing gangsters and criminals. and I wouldn't bring up his song lyrics in your defense cuz I can pull some nasty stuff out of almost any genre of music anyways. whats next? are you gonna stop buying mat;male because "they got pearl harbour" or stop buying JLO frags because her celebrity inspires more illegal mexicans to try cross the border into the US and " take our jobs". grow up! make fun of the frag itself all you want but lets keep it clean here. "anything less, would be uncivilized"

    PS. I've seen people get reprimanded on here by mods for much less.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by jpara
    As for Sean Jean, Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, or whatever you want to call him, who cares. I don't know Armani's, Laurens, or any of the other designers politics or personal life, so why would I choose or not choose a fragrance based on that. I'm sure if you looked into all of their lives you would find something you don't like about each designer. Just my 2 cents.
    I'd been meaning to post words to this effect earlier, before things got even more ugly.

    While it's perfectly legitimate to complain about the plagiarism of any artist, I don't think said artist's behavior has much to do with the value of their work. More to the point, the legitimacy of Combs's fragrance line has nothing to do with his music career; it's the work of the perfumer, like every other celebrity fragrance. In that sense, every celebrity perfume is the result of an underling's unacknowledged work. Previous posters who deviated from the fragrance to discuss Combs himself were simply off-base -- gingerpress included.

    Quote Originally Posted by czesc
    i've seen some disturbing comments come up in a few posts regarding puffy daddy and I'm really getting sick of the obvious racism or semi-tolerance of racism towards blacks on this board. At most what you'll see in response to these viscious posts are this kinda "i know we're all white here but come on lets be nice" type of attitude stuff.
    One reason that subjects like this are forbidden on many boards is because the conversation so often degenerates into hyperbole and personal attack.

    It is rash and groundless to characterize previous attempts to curtail the conversation as having included the unstated and unexpressed idea that "we're all white here"; what's more, it is far from accurate. Notice that the previous poster edited her or his responses; I read at least one of the original versions and it condemned the previous poster sharply. The edited version seems an attempt to be more civil on a public board; to be censorious with some degree of decorum and consideration. Few posters on public boards tolerate being told they're wrong rudely; flame wars often ensue.

    For you to conclude that any reasonably worded post is a heads-up to fellow imaginary Klansmen says more about your own preconceptions than those of the previous poster. We have no way of knowing that poster's ethnicity, do we? Since they mentioned their younger relatives wore the scent, and that their hesitation to wear it comes from not wanting to seem too young, we know they're conversant with hiphop culture and don’t condemn it.

    Moreover, if you look at the poster's grievance against Sean Combs, it has nothing to do with his being a so-called thug or criminal. It has to do with his treatment of other black hiphop artists -- specifically, Big E. Smalls, a fellow rapper for whom the poster shows respect. No, the comment wasn't relevant to the perfume. But neither was your rant.

    It’s bad enough that we’ve descended into character attacks of a celebrity on a thread about a fragrance; bad enough, too, that certain comments expressed disturbing forms of intolerance. But it is also bad for you to characterize politely worded attempts to maintain civility as cracker behavior. If others feel it isn't their place to initiate loud and impolite discussions, at least they've asked the offending posters to stop.

    It isn't fair to project imaginary motives and sentiments onto posters who were trying to steer the subject away from intolerant invective. Your methods might be different, but theirs are still legitimate and honorable.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by reliquaryole
    [quote author=jpara link=1133508189/15#18 date=1145935174]As for Sean Jean, Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, or whatever you want to call him, who cares. I don't know Armani's, Laurens, or any of the other designers politics or personal life, so why would I choose or not choose a fragrance based on that. I'm sure if you looked into all of their lives you would find something you don't like about each designer. Just my 2 cents.
    I'd been meaning to post words to this effect earlier, before things got even more ugly.

    While it's perfectly legitimate to complain about the plagiarism of any artist, I don't think said artist's behavior has much to do with the value of their work. More to the point, the legitimacy of Combs's fragrance line has nothing to do with his music career; it's the work of the perfumer, like every other celebrity fragrance. In that sense, every celebrity perfume is the result of an underling's unacknowledged work. Previous posters who deviated from the fragrance to discuss Combs himself were simply off-base -- gingerpress included.

    Quote Originally Posted by czesc
    i've seen some disturbing comments come up in a few posts regarding puffy daddy and I'm really getting sick of the obvious racism or semi-tolerance of racism towards blacks on this board. At most what you'll see in response to these viscious posts are this kinda "i know we're all white here but come on lets be nice" type of attitude stuff.
    One reason that subjects like this are forbidden on many boards is because the conversation so often degenerates into hyperbole and personal attack.

    It is rash and groundless to characterize previous attempts to curtail the conversation as having included the unstated and unexpressed idea that "we're all white here"; what's more, it is far from accurate. Notice that the previous poster edited her or his responses; I read at least one of the original versions and it condemned the previous poster sharply. The edited version seems an attempt to be more civil on a public board; to be censorious with some degree of decorum and consideration. Few posters on public boards tolerate being told they're wrong rudely; flame wars often ensue.

    For you to conclude that any reasonably worded post is a heads-up to fellow imaginary Klansmen says more about your own preconceptions than those of the previous poster. We have no way of knowing that poster's ethnicity, do we? Since they mentioned their younger relatives wore the scent, and that their hesitation to wear it comes from not wanting to seem too young, we know they're conversant with hiphop culture and don’t condemn it.

    Moreover, if you look at the poster's grievance against Sean Combs, it has nothing to do with his being a so-called thug or criminal. It has to do with his treatment of other black hiphop artists -- specifically, Big E. Smalls, a fellow rapper for whom the poster shows respect. No, the comment wasn't relevant to the perfume. But neither was your rant.

    It’s bad enough that we’ve descended into character attacks of a celebrity on a thread about a fragrance; bad enough, too, that certain comments expressed disturbing forms of intolerance. But it is also bad for you to characterize politely worded attempts to maintain civility as cracker behavior. If others feel it isn't their place to initiate loud and impolite discussions, at least they've asked the offending posters to stop.

    It isn't fair to project imaginary motives and sentiments onto posters who were trying to steer the subject away from intolerant invective. Your methods might be different, but theirs are still legitimate and honorable.[/quote]

    I think a hip hop quotable is most acceptable right now "Check yourself before you wreck yourself"

    my post was clearly aimed at banzaiburger who's quote was that he would not subsidize criminals and thugs, I even wrote the name Banzai in my post while addressing him. gingerpress was the one talking about biggie smalls, none of my post is directed at her. you really should read the whole thread before trying to look smart.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    I agree, there is no need for personal attacks. I prefer we keep things focused on the fragrances, and not the people whose name are associated with them.

    As a point of interest, I didn't see alot of guys trashing the Paris Hilton fragrances due to her portrayal in the public eye as someone lacking intelligence who is very materialistic, and demonstrates questionable judgement and possibly morals.

    As a final point, in the hip hop world, unlike some of the other music genres, being portrayed as someone from the streets or a thug is crucial to success. Their fans expect these guys to have street credability, and live the life they do. If you have ever seen Diddy in an interview, or on TV you would see a guy that dresses better than most, and probably more intelligent and articulate as well.

    So let's just judge the fragrance.....not the man

  24. #24

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    I don't agree with banzai's comment, It's a really bad comment... but I think you also overreacted here, Czesc.
    Who told you I'm white? How can you make such assumptions?
    I also don't like "Puff whatever", his fake hip hop behaviour, his sampled songs etc. And I don't like Paris Hilton too: her stupid behaviour, the stupid things she talks etc.
    After reading this, Are you going to conclude I'm a black and blondie's hater?
    Well, let's keep focusing the fragrance, not the man (or woman).

  25. #25

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by RCavs
    I don't agree with banzai's comment, It's a really bad comment... but I think you also overreacted here, Czesc.
    Who told you I'm white? How can you make such assumptions?
    I also don't like "Puff whatever", his fake hip hop behaviour, his sampled songs etc. And I don't like Paris Hilton too: her stupid behaviour, the stupid things she talks etc.
    After reading this, Are you going to conclude I'm a black and blondie's hater?
    Well, let's keep focusing the fragrance, not the man (or woman).
    no but ill conclude you know nothing what your talking about. I seriously doubt you could tell the difference between "fake" and "real" hip hop behaviour, not to mention sampling songs has the essence of hip hop since the late 70's. As far as the Paris Hilton comment goes, you don't like her because of things that are true, she does have stupid behaviour and she does say stupid things. puff daddy is NOT a criminal or a thug, see the difference? but i digress... go on with your life.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    While this forum should focus on fragrances themselves, I wouldn't think it strange to see a thread on the procedures of perfumers, the legacy of the Creed family, or the personal stories behind certain frags. I draw the line at negative attacks, but simply discussing a person doesn't seem so bad.

    Sean Combs has been indicted on several charges in the last few years, but as far as I know they were all acquitted. He is alleged to be friends with members of the Gambino mafia, probably because he went to academy with one of them. That's all fine with me. I've been friends with people who had police records the size of the wall street journal.
    Sean has also been criticised over his apparel factories in the Honduras, which apparently ignore Honduran labor laws.
    On the positive side, Sean ran the New York marathon to raise $2,000,000 for the NYC education system (how much of that is PR we'll never know). Sean played an importan role in the "Vote or Die" campaign a few years back, which I think is a wonderful thing.
    He may rip off other artist's music, but he has won 3 Grammy awards- a remarkable achievement.

    And as for the question about why we never said negative things about Paris Hilton when her frags came out.... Well, some people did. Quite a bit, actually. There was an entire thread about how some people liked her fragrance but were afraid to wear it because of the name.

    Oh, and he was a boy scout.


    -ben

    edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Combs
    Nihil Obstat Ben


    [url=http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/1883]My Wardrobe[/url]

  27. #27

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhueofdoubt
    While this forum should focus on fragrances themselves, I wouldn't think it strange to see a thread on the procedures of perfumers, the legacy of the Creed family, or the personal stories behind certain frags. I draw the line at negative attacks, but simply discussing a person doesn't seem so bad.

    Sean Combs has been indicted on several charges in the last few years, but as far as I know they were all acquitted. He is alleged to be friends with members of the Gambino mafia, probably because he went to academy with one of them. That's all fine with me. I've been friends with people who had police records the size of the wall street journal.
    Sean has also been criticised over his apparel factories in the Honduras, which apparently ignore Honduran labor laws.
    On the positive side, Sean ran the New York marathon to raise $2,000,000 for the NYC education system (how much of that is PR we'll never know). Sean played an importan role in the "Vote or Die" campaign a few years back, which I think is a wonderful thing.
    He may rip off other artist's music, but he has won 3 Grammy awards- a remarkable achievement.

    And as for the question about why we never said negative things about Paris Hilton when her frags came out.... Well, some people did. Quite a bit, actually. There was an entire thread about how some people liked her fragrance but were afraid to wear it because of the name.

    Oh, and he was a boy scout.


    -ben

    edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Combs
    I don't have an issue with discussing the people behind the fragrances, as long as your opinion of the fragrance and person can be separated.

    To say you don't like Sean Combs for various reasons and therefore think his cologne is horrible is not constructive to what I see established here at basenotes. But if we discuss Sean Combs as a person good or bad, and then you explain to me why his fragrance fails to impress you due to it's ingredients or longevity then I see no problems with it.

    Being afraid to wear Paris Hilton due to possible embarrassment of having to admit it to a friend, and stating the reason you won't buy Unbelieveable is because Sean Combs is a no talent thug and criminal is very different in my mind. The first represents an insecurity of some kind by the person posting, while the latter borders on slander and defamation of character.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by jpara
    [quote author=greyhueofdoubt link=1133508189/15#25 date=1146070178]While this forum should focus on fragrances themselves, I wouldn't think it strange to see a thread on the procedures of perfumers, the legacy of the Creed family, or the personal stories behind certain frags. I draw the line at negative attacks, but simply discussing a person doesn't seem so bad.

    Sean Combs has been indicted on several charges in the last few years, but as far as I know they were all acquitted. He is alleged to be friends with members of the Gambino mafia, probably because he went to academy with one of them. That's all fine with me. I've been friends with people who had police records the size of the wall street journal.
    Sean has also been criticised over his apparel factories in the Honduras, which apparently ignore Honduran labor laws.
    On the positive side, Sean ran the New York marathon to raise $2,000,000 for the NYC education system (how much of that is PR we'll never know). Sean played an importan role in the "Vote or Die" campaign a few years back, which I think is a wonderful thing.
    He may rip off other artist's music, but he has won 3 Grammy awards- a remarkable achievement.

    And as for the question about why we never said negative things about Paris Hilton when her frags came out.... Well, some people did. Quite a bit, actually. There was an entire thread about how some people liked her fragrance but were afraid to wear it because of the name.

    Oh, and he was a boy scout.


    -ben

    edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Combs
    I don't have an issue with discussing the people behind the fragrances, as long as your opinion of the fragrance and person can be separated. *

    To say you don't like Sean Combs for various reasons and therefore think his cologne is horrible is not constructive to what I see established here at basenotes. *But if we discuss Sean Combs as a person good or bad, and then you explain to me why his fragrance fails to impress you due to it's ingredients or longevity then I see no problems with it.

    Being afraid to wear Paris Hilton due to possible embarrassment of having to admit it to a friend, and stating the reason you won't buy Unbelieveable is because Sean Combs is a no talent thug and criminal is very different in my mind. *The first represents an insecurity of some kind by the person posting, while the latter borders on slander and defamation of character. *[/quote]

    Indeed. Anybody familiar with who Hugo Boss was, or exactly how his company became lucrative? check that on Wikpedia. Yet his fragrances suck for a wholey different reason.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Though he was wrong to get personal about getting too personal, reliquaryole was right about czesc's responses: his heart's in the sweet spot, but he's being defensive and confrontational. No disrespect, czesc, but that check-yourself line works both ways.

    Trouble is, we're all derailing ourselves by talking about what we're talking about. I don't know if it's possible to have a sane conversation about hip-hop on a non-hip-hop board -- especially when we're supposed to be discussing cologne.

    All this reminiscing is making me want to check the Scrypt Forum to see whether it's a haven for spoken nerds like me who listen to MF Doom and Anti-Pop Consortium (but also 90s artists like Blackalicious and A Tribe Called Quest). If you know of a better web joint, PM me with suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhueofdoubt
    While this forum should focus on fragrances themselves, I wouldn't think it strange to see a thread on the procedures of perfumers, the legacy of the Creed family, or the personal stories behind certain frags. I draw the line at negative attacks, but simply discussing a person doesn't seem so bad.
    I nearly said the same thing. Thanks for that.

    He may rip off other artist's music, but he has won 3 Grammy awards- a remarkable achievement.
    The problem is this: To talk about rap in public is to argue/preach about racism, which can turn chromatic subjects like plagiarism into B&W absolutes. But my issues with Combs have nothing to do with that. The first rap artist to start his own fashion label was Dana Dane (of IV Plai Boutique), and that was fifteen years ago. It's a bit late to be worried about the couture neighborhood.

    The problem -- label-paid A&R people who want to displace their own artists for selfish reasons -- is not limited to any genre or ethnicity. Business-to-artist plagiarism worries me because we've entered an extremely corporate era, and because people who devote their lives to perfecting an art get few enough chances already. It also upsets me to have spent most of my life as a studio musician watching other musicians be stolen from. Publishing, royalties and recognition: all get gaffled by higher-ups unless the original creator proves strong and savvy. During breaks from some of my first sessions, I recall watching Tashan walk into Studio B of Intergalactic, record himself singing, rapping and playing every single instrument on his album, Chasin' A Dream, only to find out months later that Russell Simmons and Rick Rubin took full credit for his work. That happens all the time in dance music and hip-hop. Just ask the godfather of "appropriation," Arthur Baker. (Then again, many would argue that rap is among other things a form of revenge against the culture that, um, appropriated rock and jazz.)

    Three Grammys, you say? An achievement, definitely. But not any more remarkable than that of other celebrities who pay for their hits. And I don't mean to single Combs out: Much of the authorship and style that wins public music awards is either boosted or bought from those who are not in a position to argue. That such a serious subject came up in the context of people calling Combs cliché names is sad, really, and my fault, of course -- which is why I'll stop breaking my own rules. I should probably exit the train at this stop, sniff-fiend Empresses and Gs, since I can't even remember what Unforgivable smells like.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by czesc
    no but ill conclude you know nothing what your talking about. I seriously doubt you could tell the difference between "fake" and "real" hip hop behaviour, not to mention sampling songs has the essence of hip hop since the late 70's. As far as the Paris Hilton comment goes, you don't like her because of things that are true, she does have stupid behaviour and she does say stupid things. puff daddy is NOT a criminal or a thug, see the difference? but i digress... go on with your life.
    Czesc,
    I don't think "puff whatever" is a criminal or a thug. I never said that. I JUST DON'T LIKE HIM. But if unforgivable smells good, I'll buy it.
    Well, talking about your conclusion, I'd say you might be right. I don't give a F#*K about what is fake or real hip hop. I think your idol should start learning how to play some real instruments and write better lyrics instead of "copying and pasting" somebodyelse's work.
    Go on with your life too, clever guy.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by RCavs
    [quote author=czesc link=1133508189/15#24 date=1146069615]no but ill conclude you know nothing what your talking about. I seriously doubt you could tell the difference between "fake" and "real" hip hop behaviour, not to mention sampling songs has the essence of hip hop since the late 70's. As far as the Paris Hilton comment goes, you don't like her because of things that are true, she does have stupid behaviour and she does say stupid things. puff daddy is NOT a criminal or a thug, see the difference? but i digress... go on with your life.
    Czesc,
    I don't think "puff whatever" is a criminal or a thug. I never said that. I JUST DON'T LIKE HIM. But if unforgivable smells good, I'll buy it.
    Well, talking about your conclusion, I'd say you might be right. I don't give a F#*K about what is fake or real hip hop. I think your idol should start learning how to play some real instruments and write better lyrics instead of "copying and pasting" somebodyelse's work.
    Go on with your life too, clever guy.[/quote]

    thanks for not actually debating the only real point of contest I made in my post. anyone with any knowledge of reasoning or debate can easily pick up on at least 2 of the classical fallacies at play here. dont know what im talking about? look it up! you lose

  32. #32

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by gingerpress
    Though he was wrong to get personal about getting too personal, reliquaryole was right about czesc's responses: his heart's in the sweet spot, but he's being defensive and confrontational. No disrespect, czesc, but that check-yourself line works both ways.

    Trouble is, we're all derailing ourselves by talking about what we're talking about. I don't know if it's possible to have a sane conversation about hip-hop on a non-hip-hop board -- especially when we're supposed to be discussing cologne.

    All this reminiscing is making me want to check the Scrypt Forum to see whether it's a haven for spoken nerds like me who listen to MF Doom and Anti-Pop Consortium (but also 90s artists like Blackalicious and A Tribe Called Quest). If you know of a better web joint, PM me with suggestions.

    [quote author=greyhueofdoubt link=1133508189/15#25 date=1146070178]While this forum should focus on fragrances themselves, I wouldn't think it strange to see a thread on the procedures of perfumers, the legacy of the Creed family, or the personal stories behind certain frags. I draw the line at negative attacks, but simply discussing a person doesn't seem so bad.
    I nearly said the same thing. Thanks for that.

    He may rip off other artist's music, but he has won 3 Grammy awards- a remarkable achievement.
    The problem is this: To talk about rap in public is to argue/preach about racism, which can turn chromatic subjects like plagiarism into B&W absolutes. But my issues with Combs have nothing to do with that. The first rap artist to start his own fashion label was Dana Dane (of IV Plai Boutique), and that was fifteen years ago. It's a bit late to be worried about the couture neighborhood.

    The problem -- label-paid A&R people who want to displace their own artists for selfish reasons -- is not limited to any genre or ethnicity. Business-to-artist plagiarism worries me because we've entered an extremely corporate era, and because people who devote their lives to perfecting an art get few enough chances already. It also upsets me to have spent most of my life as a studio musician watching other musicians be stolen from. Publishing, royalties and recognition: all get gaffled by higher-ups unless the original creator proves strong and savvy. During breaks from some of my first sessions, I recall watching Tashan walk into Studio B of Intergalactic, record himself singing, rapping and playing every single instrument on his album, Chasin' A Dream, only to find out months later that Russell Simmons and Rick Rubin took full credit for his work. That happens all the time in dance music and hip-hop. Just ask the godfather of "appropriation," Arthur Baker. (Then again, many would argue that rap is among other things a form of revenge against the culture that, um, appropriated rock and jazz.)

    Three Grammys, you say? An achievement, definitely. But not any more remarkable than that of other celebrities who pay for their hits. And I don't mean to single Combs out: Much of the authorship and style that wins public music awards is either boosted or bought from those who are not in a position to argue. That such a serious subject came up in the context of people calling Combs cliché names is sad, really, and my fault, of course -- which is why I'll stop breaking my own rules. I should probably exit the train at this stop, sniff-fiend Empresses and Gs, since I can't even remember what Unforgivable smells like.[/quote]


    dude are you crazy? your clearly trying to get me to just ignore what happened with statements like these

    "Trouble is, we're all derailing ourselves by talking about what we're talking about. I don't know if it's possible to have a sane conversation about hip-hop on a non-hip-hop board -- especially when we're supposed to be discussing cologne. "

    Thats the exact kind of reponse I was talking about earlier. let it be let it be, be nice, lets move on, yadda yadda. If you look at my history of posts on this board im not someone that just sits back and goes with the flow, I'll say what I'll say if I think its right. I'm sure you can tell im also no blumbering idiot that just speaks his mind. I read between the lines and I'll call people out on whatever theyre saying. I hate the way discussion in america has degenerated to this kinda word for word lawyer like analysis nowadays. Reasons for that I wont get into! Its not my goal to make enemies here either, in fact, I don't even feel that from my perspective I should be enemies with banzaiburger or anyone else I've gotten into a heated discussion with here. I'd be a fool to think that a large segment of the american population doesn't secretly think african americans should still be hanging in trees (I can already see the long lists of posts contesting me on this one, get real people). Basicly my message has been from the beginning: Racism exists! and that I acknowledge, but do it on your own time at your kitchen table or whatever, not here at basenotes!

  33. #33

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    czesc-
    I'm sorry, man... I've been reading your inflammatory posts for a long while, and while I think it's admirable to stand your ground in a debate, Basenotes simply isn't the appropriate venue. I won't accuse you of trolling, because I can't read your mind, but your actions amount to just that. You make specious arguments seemingly for the sake of argument. I think you find it hard to believe that anyone might hold a different opinion than you yet still be an intelligent, reasonable adult. While you might be in a jovial mood as you write your posts, they tend to be read as antagonistic and vicious. I don't even feel like writing this, because everyone who crosses you winds up in a long semantic debate about practically nothing. Look, I'm not judging you as a person or disagreeing with you or trying to start an argument. I just want you to know that your posts are getting more inappropriate as time goes on. And since you like to argue so much (and apropos your last post about fallacies), I present to you a list of fallacies that I have found in your posts. I just want you to put things in perspective. And I will not argue with you, and that's the end of it.

    Ad Hominem
    Straw man
    Ad ignorantiam
    Equivocation
    Amphiboly
    Division
    Petitio Principii
    False Dilemma


    Good day
    ben
    Nihil Obstat Ben


    [url=http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/1883]My Wardrobe[/url]

  34. #34

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhueofdoubt
    czesc-
    I'm sorry, man... I've been reading your inflammatory posts for a long while, and while I think it's admirable to stand your ground in a debate, Basenotes simply isn't the appropriate venue. I won't accuse you of trolling, because I can't read your mind, but your actions amount to just that. You make specious arguments seemingly for the sake of argument. I think you find it hard to believe that anyone might hold a different opinion than you yet still be an intelligent, reasonable adult. While you might be in a jovial mood as you write your posts, they tend to be read as antagonistic and vicious. I don't even feel like writing this, because everyone who crosses you winds up in a long semantic debate about practically nothing. Look, I'm not judging you as a person or disagreeing with you or trying to start an argument. I just want you to know that your posts are getting more inappropriate as time goes on. And since you like to argue so much (and apropos your last post about fallacies), I present to you a list of fallacies that I have found in your posts. I just want you to put things in perspective. And I will not argue with you, and that's the end of it.

    Ad Hominem
    Straw man
    Ad ignorantiam
    Equivocation
    Amphiboly
    Division
    Petitio Principii
    False Dilemma


    Good day
    ben
    please ben, where in this entire thread have I done any of that. and dont bring any examples from other threads that ive clearly created just to "start crap" (those make up like 5% of my posts anyways so be easy and its fairly obvious which ones those were). I'm sure I have countered absolutley every arguement put forth to me here in this particular thread while its painfully clear most of you aren't doing that to mine.

    you know what, to hell with it. lets do a play by play.

    my claim: p diddy has been unfairly singled out on this board because he is black

    your claim: And as for the question about why we never said negative things about Paris Hilton when her frags came out.... Well, some people did. Quite a bit, actually. There was an entire thread about how some people liked her fragrance but were afraid to wear it because of the name.

    final say: Being afraid to wear Paris Hilton due to possible embarrassment of having to admit it to a friend, and stating the reason you won't buy Unbelieveable is because Sean Combs is a no talent thug and criminal is very different in my mind. The first represents an insecurity of some kind by the person posting, while the latter borders on slander and defamation of character.

    -----------

    NEXT

    ---------

    my claim: puff daddy has never been convicted of anything

    your claim: Sean Combs has been indicted on several charges in the last few years, but as far as I know they were all acquitted.

    final answer: quite obvious

    --------

    next

    --------

    Who told you I'm white? How can you make such assumptions?

    - No one, I didnt. who are you anyways? where did you come from? ah i see... just here to get a piece of the action

    I also don't like "Puff whatever", his fake hip hop behaviour, his sampled songs etc. And I don't like Paris Hilton too: her stupid behaviour, the stupid things she talks etc.

    - She really does do all these things though, which is a totally different story than bonzai claiming puff daddy is a thug and a criminal when he isn't

    After reading this, Are you going to conclude I'm a black and blondie's hater?

    - No, thats rediculous.

    -------

    NEXT

    ---------

    an example of the blindfold mentality going on here:

    "Trouble is, we're all derailing ourselves by talking about what we're talking about. I don't know if it's possible to have a sane conversation about hip-hop on a non-hip-hop board -- especially when we're supposed to be discussing cologne. "

    no disrespect to the poster (not everyone has to be a revolutionary) but I'm just trying to prove a point.

    ---------

    NEXT

    --------

    another gem by RCavs

    My point: As far as the Paris Hilton comment goes, you don't like her because of things that are true, she does have stupid behaviour and she does say stupid things. puff daddy is NOT a criminal or a thug, see the difference?

    his answer: I think your idol should start learning how to play some real instruments and write better lyrics instead of "copying and pasting" somebodyelse's work.

    ok ben, your right... i gotta stop committing all those fallacies

    -------

    thanks for putting everything in perspective for me.

    -------


  35. #35

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by czesc
    Who told you I'm white? How can you make such assumptions?

    - No one, I didnt. who are you anyways? where did you come from? ah i see... just here to get a piece of the action

    I also don't like "Puff whatever", his fake hip hop behaviour, his sampled songs etc. And I don't like Paris Hilton too: her stupid behaviour, the stupid things she talks etc.

    - She really does do all these things though, which is a totally different story than bonzai claiming puff daddy is a thug and a criminal when he isn't
    Ok, Czesc, I'll play your game: did anyone notice the prejudice against my origin? what do you see? That I'm from the third world?
    Ok, Ok, Ok... I'm just kidding! Man, You're paranoid!
    You should watch more "Spike Lee's joints"...
    Are you Puff's lawyer? Ok, He isn't a criminal, but he acts like one.

  36. #36

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    I don't think Puff Daddy acts like much of a thug at all. He has at points in his career though tried to act harder than at other times. For a while people kept talking about how he shot someone in a club, but I'm not sure if that's true or not. And to be completely honest, I even like a few of his songs. Not because I think he's a skilled musician, but some of his pieces have a tremendous amount of work and production put into them from lots of powerful people. I would never buy one of his albums though, because I don't see him as talented and because his worthwhile songs tend to be few and far between and I don't want to buy an album just for a couple good songs. Just my take on the guy. Also, czesc, I don't think that anyone hear really meant to be racist. There were some things that were said that could be interpreted as racist, but I strongly believe that no racism was intended. I think it is good to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they weren't talking about racism, and with that frame of mind then approach them and you will probably get better and more truthful results. It is rare that blaims help anything.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    I should have my head checked for posting in this thread, but here goes.

    Combs has been on my shitlist for a long time, at least since he got so much attention for that worthless ripoff of "Every Breath You Take". I doubt I'm singling him out because I'm a racist or a hip-hop hater since I have a very special place in my heart for Public Enemy, Dead Prez, the Coup, and other socially conscious black rap artists.

    I don't know about others on the board, but as far as I can tell I resent this guy's success because I just don't like what he produces and how he presents it. (Incidentally I think a sizable contingent of the hip-hop community feels similarly.) Apparently a whole lot of people do like Combs's stuff, though, and I'm sure it's not easy to do what he's done. Evidently he works hard, and I can respect that. But I don't find winning awards or making a lot of money endearing in itself. I try to base opinions on the value of people's work, output, contributions; of course these judgments are largely subjective, but so be it.

    So I admit a bias against him (but not against his skin color) when I say I agree his fragrance, like a lot of his music, smells like a ripoff. And I admit I might well boycott his fragrance even if I thought it smelled great and original simply because I don't want to give him my money. I'm not as familiar with Paris Hilton, but from what little I know I feel pretty much the same way about her. I've passed up numerous opportunities even to smell her men's fragrance, despite being told it's better than one would expect, simply because the association with her puts me off.

    Anyway, believe what you want about why Combs attracts so much attention. I don't see how anyone's going to prove anything about this in the end.
    Do you smell what I smell? Vive le Crystal Flaçon!

  38. #38

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Wow, this thread turned pretty sour... Here's my take. I respect Puffy/Diddy/whatever as a human being, and he's done lots of good for a lot of people. That said, as a musician and a business man, I have very little respect. Most of his music is unoriginal or mediocre at best, and most of his business stuff (clothing, fragrances) are unoriginal and uninspiring as well. The simple fact of the matter is that Unforgivable, at least in the EdT at the department stores, is a blatant Millesime Imperial / Wall Street ripoff (and Wall Street borrows very strongly from MI). Maybe the EdP is different, but I doubt it. It's a shame that now I'm going to be wearing my MI and someone's going to say "hey, is that the new Puffy fragrance?" and I'm going to get mad. It's a shame, really, especially since Diddy was known to be an MI wearer himself. What's his excuse?

  39. #39

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffman
    Wow, this thread turned pretty sour... Here's my take. I respect Puffy/Diddy/whatever as a human being, and he's done lots of good for a lot of people. That said, as a musician and a business man, I have very little respect. Most of his music is unoriginal or mediocre at best, and most of his business stuff (clothing, fragrances) are unoriginal and uninspiring as well. The simple fact of the matter is that Unforgivable, at least in the EdT at the department stores, is a blatant Millesime Imperial / Wall Street ripoff (and Wall Street borrows very strongly from MI). Maybe the EdP is different, but I doubt it. It's a shame that now I'm going to be wearing my MI and someone's going to say "hey, is that the new Puffy fragrance?" and I'm going to get mad. It's a shame, really, especially since Diddy was known to be an MI wearer himself. What's his excuse?
    his excuse is probably the extra 100 mil in his pocket from unforgivable's sales :P

  40. #40

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Yeah but see czesc, the "cologne newcomer" dosnt know that Unforgivable is very similar to Millesime Imperial and they are going to buy it. How many people who listen to Combs wear MI?

    MikeD on Chaz by Revlon: "I knew a lady who took one sniff and said "bug spray." I never told the guy what she said, but the termites disappeared, oddly enough."

  41. #41

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    You don't seem to appreciate the man all that much yourself czesc, yet you accuse other people of not liking him because he is black. Only you can dislike him for proper reasons, is that your point?

    Where is your actual proof that he is disliked because of his color? The fact that one person called him a thug without proper reason? How did you actually came to the conclusion that he got called thug because he is black? Also, you claim that he got bashed here on basenotes because 'racism exists'. Ofcourse it does. But that's hardly a watertight proof that his fragrance get's bashed because of this. Would you accept the logic that Paris Hilton got bashed here because she is a woman and chauvinism exists?

    In my mind there are many reasons to dislike Combs. I think he is egocentric opportunist who makes money with ripoffs. He has an excellent business instinct, that's the best thing I can say about the man. Should I pretend I like him to be not labeled as a racist?

    Also, remember that Bond No. 9 got some hard criticism here for copying various Creeds, yet criticism towards Combs for the same act is because of his skin color?




  42. #42

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    I'd sooner buy a bottle of Eau D'OJ Simpson, because at least there's a chance some of the money will go towards his victims' court settlement. As a general rule, I don't like subsidizing criminals and thugs.

    That was the statement most people took exception with, including me. The post had nothing to do with Unforgiveable being a rip off of Millesime Imperial and Wall Street nor did it provide any feedback on the fragrance. One could only conclude from it that the poster considered Sean Combs a criminal and thug, and as a result he would never purchase Unbelieveable or any other fragrance he put out.

    The bias is interesting even in the choice of words Stuffmans used in his post;
    "(Unforgiveable)...is a blatant Millesime Imperial / Wall Street ripoff (and Wall Street borrows very strongly from MI)". Combs is accused of "blatantly ripping off" MI and Wall Street, but Wallstreet only "borrows" from MI. Obviously Combs isn't the first, nor will he be the last to rip off a fragrance.

    I agree that there was no racial attack other than the poster choose to single out two individuals that happened to be black. On this particular board, one's opinion of Combs as a person isn't relevant. There are alot of other boards out there that will allow you to state your opinion on Combs the person, or the quality of his music. On this board, I thought the point was to discuss fragrances.



  43. #43

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by czesc
    [quote author=greyhueofdoubt link=1133508189/30#32 date=1146086480]czesc-
    I'm sorry, man... I've been reading your inflammatory posts for a long while, and while I think it's admirable to stand your ground in a debate, Basenotes simply isn't the appropriate venue. I won't accuse you of trolling, because I can't read your mind, but your actions amount to just that. You make specious arguments seemingly for the sake of argument. I think you find it hard to believe that anyone might hold a different opinion than you yet still be an intelligent, reasonable adult. While you might be in a jovial mood as you write your posts, they tend to be read as antagonistic and vicious. I don't even feel like writing this, because everyone who crosses you winds up in a long semantic debate about practically nothing. Look, I'm not judging you as a person or disagreeing with you or trying to start an argument. I just want you to know that your posts are getting more inappropriate as time goes on. And since you like to argue so much (and apropos your last post about fallacies), I present to you a list of fallacies that I have found in your posts. I just want you to put things in perspective. And I will not argue with you, and that's the end of it.

    Ad Hominem
    Straw man
    Ad ignorantiam
    Equivocation
    Amphiboly
    Division
    Petitio Principii
    False Dilemma


    Good day
    ben
    please ben, where in this entire thread have I done any of that. and dont bring any examples from other threads that ive clearly created just to "start crap" (those make up like 5% of my posts anyways so be easy and its fairly obvious which ones those were). I'm sure I have countered absolutley every arguement put forth to me here in this particular thread while its painfully clear most of you aren't doing that to mine.



    [/quote]

    Well I have to agree with Ben here. This ain't a place to "start crap" and if you aren't happy with that then you are more than welcome to cancel your supporting membership and start crap elsewhere.



  44. #44

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoth 007
    Yeah but see czesc, the "cologne newcomer" dosnt know that Unforgivable is very similar to Millesime Imperial and they are going to buy it. How many people who listen to Combs wear MI?

    cologne newcomer? dude I happen to own MI... I suggest you take a look at my wardrobe sometime.

  45. #45

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by czesc
    [quote author=Smoth 007 link=1133508189/30#39 date=1146148506]Yeah but see czesc, the "cologne newcomer" dosnt know that Unforgivable is very similar to Millesime Imperial and they are going to buy it. How many people who listen to Combs wear MI?

    cologne newcomer? dude I happen to own MI... I suggest you take a look at my wardrobe sometime.[/quote]

    He wasn't calling you a cologne newcomer.

    For cripes sake :P

  46. #46

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by Octothorpe
    [quote author=czesc link=1133508189/30#43 date=1146159420][quote author=Smoth 007 link=1133508189/30#39 date=1146148506]Yeah but see czesc, the "cologne newcomer" dosnt know that Unforgivable is very similar to Millesime Imperial and they are going to buy it. How many people who listen to Combs wear MI?

    cologne newcomer? dude I happen to own MI... I suggest you take a look at my wardrobe sometime.[/quote]

    He wasn't calling you a cologne newcomer.

    For cripes sake :P
    [/quote]


    oh good god how embarassing, sorry bro!

  47. #47

    Default Re: Sean "Diddy" Combs launch of Unforgivable at S

    Quote Originally Posted by jpara

    The bias is interesting even in the choice of words Stuffmans used in his post;
    "(Unforgiveable)...is a blatant Millesime Imperial / Wall Street ripoff (and Wall Street borrows very strongly from MI)". Combs is accused of "blatantly ripping off" MI and Wall Street, but Wallstreet only "borrows" from MI. Obviously Combs isn't the first, nor will he be the last to rip off a fragrance.

    You are reading into things way to much here. Don't accuse me of being biased against anyone, especially from that statement. I already stated I do not like Puffy as a business man, and it has absolutely nothing to do with his background, ethnicity, or upbringing. If I truly were biased, I would have never chose to date people of other races and ethnicities.

    If you are familiar with MI, Wall Street, and Unforgivable, you would know that Wall Street certainly got its influence from MI, but it's different enough that any casual person could easily distinguish the two. Unforgivable, on the other hand, is an MI clone, right down to its "Mediterranean Air Accord." It attempts to mimic the formula almost exactly, and is totally unforgiving in its doing so. I don't care if it's Sean John or Yves Saint Laurent- it's a blatant rip-off.

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