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  1. #1

    Default Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    Unfortunately, I won't be able to post the whole thing as I planned.

    Dr.Turin deemed right to refuse consent.
    He sent me this note.
    Although I don't understand why, since he welcomed isolated articles attempted, I will have to respect his wishes.

    This is the mail :

    Dear Helg
    I would prefer it if you removed your translation of my guide from your website. You are free, of course, to distribute it privately. As I said before, isolated articles are OK, but you clearly have embarked on a complete translation and I don't want that to be public. The copyright for all languages, by the way, is mine because the publisher failed to reprint and no longer exists.

    thank you, and all the best

    Luca



    A pity...

  2. #2

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    A pity indeed. But you can still distribute it under-the-radar within Basenotes, right?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    Yes, but since it is obvious I could do that all along anyway (surely he could guess that possible), why would I ask his permission in the first place?


    *scratches head*

  4. #4

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    Quote Originally Posted by helg
    Yes, but since it is obvious I could do that all along anyway (surely he could guess that possible), why would I ask his permission in the first place?


    *scratches head*
    To show that you are a good-faith collaborator, rather than some kind of multilingual pirate trying to run off versions of his work for profit, I suppose. Theres so much of that in the internet age, you can get inferior bootlegs of just about everything, so Im sure your request came to him as both flattering and respectful. My sneaking suspicion is that he probably plans to put out an english translation himself...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    >.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    My sneaking suspicion is that he probably plans to put out an english translation himself...
    [/quote]

    Correct, and a new book
    "...The history of perfumery before this subdivision of niche was manufactured, both literally and imaginatively, is a long one, with thousands upon thousands of fragrances. The true fragrance lover takes each fragrance one at a time, and examines it preferably outside of the imaginatively manufactured categories and, in doing so, builds up a steady, informed basis for seasoned comparative judgments based on the sampling and information gathered from such sampling. This is why any one on the board who ever has anything particular interesting to say about fragrances as fragrances rather than as categorical constructs always has an abiding interest and passion for all kinds of fragrances and not just a narrow niche of fragrances. Conversely, the "niche whores," the more and more narrow their interests become, the more and more they mimic the ad copy of the very companies they worship. I know whose posts I like to read..."

    “Perfume is decidedly not about two things: it isn’t about memory and it isn’t about sex. Perfume is about beauty and intellect,” .......... “A perfume is a message in a bottle—not a smell—and the message is written by the perfumer and read by the person who smells it.”

    Book recommendations:

    Perfumes: The A-Z Guide
    The Emperor of Scent
    The Perfect Scent
    Scent and Chemistry

    Feeding the Monster: IFRA and the EU Parliament
    www.firstnerve.com/2013/06/feeding-monster-ifra-and-eu-parliament.html

    -http://www.firstnerve.com/2013/06/feeding-monster-ifra-and-eu-parliament.html



  7. #7

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    Thank you for your encouragement.

    Unfortunately, if you read the comments on the blog, it's really embarassing.
    I sure hope he didn't do it intentionally...(benefit of a doubt and all )

  8. #8

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied



    It's within his rights to refuse of course. It's probably a combination of commercial rights and quality control. I think he would be best to translate it himself, assuming he had the time.


    AZTEC

  9. #9

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    Quote Originally Posted by helg
    Thank you for your encouragement.

    Unfortunately, if you read the comments on the blog, it's really embarassing.
    I sure hope he didn't do it intentionally...(benefit of a doubt and all )
    which comments? I am just getting into this, and might be very interested to learn more. Maybe you are not aware that he makes some (future) german texts available in english here:
    http://www-x.nzz.ch/folio/curr/artic...rfum_engl.html

    (I posted more details yesterday)


    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus

    which comments? I am just getting into this, and might be very interested to learn more. Maybe you are not aware that he makes some (future) german texts available in english here:
    http://www-x.nzz.ch/folio/curr/artic...rfum_engl.html

    (I posted more details yesterday) *

    *
    I am afraid this is already old news: It's not his generosity but the generosity of the Folio editor that accounts for the english text of the german articles(he wrote*articles before that got translated into german for a looooooong time ). The english text has been on the net for 2-3 months already and has nothing to do with MY issue.

    I was talking about this kind of treatment *

    http://lucaturin.typepad.com/perfume....html#comments

    which seems like he is talking *out of both sides of his mouth: first he invites people to translate his work, then he takes the time to show those laborers of love how defficient they are. Even the winner ( a woman I respect myself ) had to be corrected !!
    The comment that is posted last by mr.Turner really sheds a new light on the issue, doesn't it? ( and I don't even know who mr.Turner is, but hey he's got a point!)

    Of course LT has the right to refuse. I accept that. I removed the content immediately. I would never violate someone's rights. *8-)
    I would just prefer if he told me straight out he wants to publish this himself or that my attempt is mediocre. After all I am native to neither language, it's understandable.
    It's common courtecy NOT to underestimate someone's intelligence, especially when that someone has just asked to offer you free publicity out of one's own good heart.

    But hey, no good deed goes unpunished.


    The background of the issue at hand can be seen here :http://perfumeoflife.org/index.php?showtopic=5683


    Also witness a similar kind of treatment :http://perfumeoflife.org/index.php?s...=2030&st=0


  11. #11

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    Quote Originally Posted by helg
    [quote author=narcus link=1145128293/0#8 date=1145264660]

    ...I am afraid this is already old news: It's not his generosity but the generosity of the Folio editor that accounts for the english text of the german articles(he wrote articles before that got translated into german for a looooooong time ). The english text has been on the net for 2-3 months already and has nothing to do with MY issue.....
    ...Also witness a similar kind of treatment :http://perfumeoflife.org/index.php?s...=2030&st=0
    Thank you very much for giving more insight on the guide translation matter!
    As concernes Perfume Notes: I still seem to be unable to find any translations of his articles published in Jan, Feb and March 2006 in Zurich. I suppose you can quote the corresponding website ? I would love to see them!
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus
    Thank you very much for giving more insight on the guide translation matter!

    I had to, although I never dreamed it would be necessary,because I was put in a difficult position. Hope it is now plainer to see how the matter stands.


    Quote Originally Posted by narcus
    As concernes Perfume Notes: I still seem to be unable to find any translations of his articles published in Jan, Feb and March 2006 in Zurich. *I suppose you can quote the corresponding website ? * I would love to see them!
    Unfortunaely, those articles are no longer online I guess.
    I remember the previous one was about Sublime and some others (Opium among them and we had a lenthy discussion on POL
    http://perfumeoflife.org/index.php?s...=4971&st=0 ).

  13. #13

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    Helg, what a great site you did! Really nice!
    A lot of useful information, thank you very much for sharing it with us!
    Could you send me a copy of the translation you did from Luca Turin Le guide? (He said you could do it privately)

  14. #14

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    The problem I see here is that Mr. Turin has a very high level of English, and more so not being this his native language. When I have read his blog, I have appreciated his elaborate prose, in fact he uses words I haven't seen anywere else (and I read A LOT of texts in English). So I can understand his concern about amateur translations of his guide, he could do much better if he wanted to. Anyway, I have found quite nasty the way of pointing out the errors made by people who only tried to do their best (and in your case Helg, expecting no reward). Well, as I am not so picky as Mr. Turin, I'll be glad to have a copy of your text
    "It is the mark of a brave man to admit defeat, cut his loss and move on." - David Ogilvy

  15. #15

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    As 'The Guide' is not my own creation, I can easily afford not to be hurt by any shortcomings a tranlation inevitably must have, and also
    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    ..I'll be glad to have a copy of your text ..
    How should I go about this?
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    Anyway, I have found quite nasty the way of pointing out the errors made by people who only tried to do their best
    Whenever people get upset over some nasty review by Turin it reminds me of a parable. I don't remember some of the details of the parable but it has a scorpion and some other animal who want to cross a river and the scorpion asks to ride on the other animals back. The other animal says to the scorpion - "but if I let you on my back you will sting me"; to which the scorpion replies "I won't sting you because then we would both drown". So the other animal lets the scorpion get on his back and begins swimming across the river. Half way across the river the scorpion stings the other animal. When the other animal says "why did you sting me, now we will both drown"; the scorpion replies: "because I am a scorpion and that is what I do".
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen
    Anyway, I have found quite nasty the way of pointing out the errors made by people who only tried to do their best
    Whenever people get upset over some nasty review by Turin it reminds me of a parable. I don't remember some of the details of the parable but it has a scorpion and some other animal who want to cross a river and the scorpion asks to ride on the other animals back. The other animal says to the scorpion - "but if I let you on my back you will sting me"; to which the scorpion replies "I won't sting you because then we would both drown". So the other animal lets the scorpion get on his back and begins swimming across the river. Half way across the river the scorpion stings the other animal. When the other animal says "why did you sting me, now we will both drown"; the scorpion replies: "because I am a scorpion and that is what I do".
    LOL oh that snipey Luca!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Luca Turin Le Guide translation rights denied

    That parable reminds me of another. I can't remember if I saw it in a movie or read it.

    So one day this woman finds a rattlesnake on the side of the road with something wrong with it. She gingerly picks it up and takes it home, where she feeds it and nurses it back to health. The woman and the rattlesnake got along well, and they would talk long into the night about all sorts of things. Then one day without warning, the rattlesnake bit the woman's leg. The woman asked, "why would you do that, after all I've done for you?" The rattlesnake replied, "What did you expect, b***h, I'm a rattlesnake."

    I guess that was redundant next to the scorpion story, but for some reason I've kept it in my head all these years. I guess now that I think about it, this whole post was unnecessary. Ah well.

    -ben
    Nihil Obstat Ben


    [url=http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/1883]My Wardrobe[/url]

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