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  1. #1

    Default Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    Which my fellow Basenoers will have to come up with*, *as I can only think of a paltry 3 offhand. :-?

    ( *None of which I tried when they first came out *in their 'pure' form )

    1. *Guerlian Vetiver---Was the old juiice really THAT much better?
    2. *L'Occitane Vetiver---I hope to God the old juice was better!
    3. *Santos by Cartier----I've tried both the new regular and concentree versions and liked them, *but I've been informed that the original juice could practically make you leap tall buildings at a single bound. *

    So:

    What other old vs new are there?---I imagine the list must exceed 100. * Please help further our mutual addiction.

    Do you truly think the classic was significantly *better?

    And, if so, *the most important question of all:

    WHERE ON EARTH CAN WE GET OUR HANDS ON THE ORIGINAL? * *Any out of the way retailers in Rangoon that you have an inside connection with? *Any decants offered here?? * *


    Fighting the international SA marketing cospiracy,

    Mario.
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    Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    [blue]

    Mario,

    Excellent post and excellent questions.

    In short, the answer to all three questions is a decided YES!

    As to where to get your hands on some, I have vintage Guerlain Vetiver EDC and EDT, vintage Santos de Cartier, and vintage L'Occitane Vetyer on my decants list which will be back up sometime in mid May.

    Stayed tuned over the next month or two when I will be completing comparative reviews of all three fragrances and the differences between their vintage and new renditions.

    Best regards,

    scentemental[/blue]

    [red]P.S. I will also try to procure some vintage Caron Third Man and undertake a comparative review of the changes between it and the current version. From my scent memory from way back in the eighties, the difference is huge.[/red]


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    The original formulations are almost always better. I'm given to understand through reading on the subject that what generally happens is this: some of the key ingredients in the old versions become too expensive or hard-to-find and are subbed out with cheaper or man-made materials.

    BTW, the former Rangoon in the old Burma is the current Yangon in the new Myanmar.

    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental

    [red]P.S. I will also try to procure some vintage Caron Third Man and undertake a comparative review of the changes between it and the current version. From my scent memory from way back in the eighties, the difference is huge.[/red]
    Scentemental,

    That's curious. *I had never heard that Third Man was changed.
    Briefly, what do you remember being different? *Was it just stronger?
    Is there some note muted or altogether missing now?
    It's pretty good now. *Was it even better before?

    Thanks,
    trumpet_guy

  5. #5

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    Monsieur Rochas, the original version of which, ( discontinued), remains light years away from the extant Pomegranate coloured offering of TOTALLY different composition but same name.

    sigh.......

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    I just thought, there's an easy way to check. In Michael Edwards' Fragrances of the World 2005, there are introduction dates next to each fragrance listed. Where there are two dates (the second one in poarentheses), the second is the date of reintroduction or reformulation. My guess is that most of these are not reintroductions of discontinued fragrances, but reformulations.

    BTW, the 2006 version of Edwards is out and reputedly has added almost 500 new entries.
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

    My Wardrobe
    My Reviews

    Fiat justitia ruat clum.

    Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus

    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
    Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.

    Seneca

  7. #7

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    The new Guerlain Vetiver EDT is slightly greener than the original (but you have to do side by side comparison to detect it), and lasts a whole lot longer than the original. The original was only really good for 5 hours, the new one goes for a full working day. I've got both versions, and a bottle of old EDC I picked up cheap as well.
    Renato

  8. #8

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    The new version of Guerlain Vetiver smells better to me, lighter and better lasting, not as soapy as the original.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    In my opinion, Guerlain Vetiver`s are suprisingly close to each others. The old juice is a bit more dry, earthy, spicy. The new one is more crispy with deeper citrus flow.

    No doubt, I like old one better, but like I said they are quite close. And, I`ve noticed that for some reason both versions have a quality to turn very bitter on me, during the drydown. Apart from that, it`s a great scent.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    could the difference, in any case, be the result of age?
    "He was some kind of a man... What does it matter what you say about people?"

  11. #11

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by [ch257
    [ch273]r[ch331]]could the difference, in any case, be the result of age?
    Of course. It`s hard to tell. I`m quite sure that if you ask it from Guerlain, they`ll say that they didn`t touch the formula at all, only bottle.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    In some ways, if they really did get worse, I feel better having never smelled them because now I won't know what I was missing. (Vetiver is fine now, so I hope I never smell the original if it is indeed better)

  13. #13

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    I'm old enough to attest that Fendi Uomo and Egoiste are different animals from their more modern counterparts. Concentration is one culprit, and the other is definitely reformulation. There's something about it that makes me think that a few notes have been substituted for more economical, generic, synthetic materials which lack a fuller personality in either.

    Wish I held on to my old bottle of Fendi, but it had really gone bad, but I still own my old Egoiste Cologne Concentree, and it's even more fuller and richer and longer lasting than the Egoiste EdT that I bought recently.

    Consider this...I'm sure synthetics are terribly cheaper than the original raw materials, and by substituting it in these newer formulations and at the same time cutting the concentration makes it for a more cheaper scent to produce hence a bigger profit margin to the House. We're REALLY getting fcuk'd over! For some reason, this is true for Men's scents, but pay $15 more like women do, and you get something heady, longlasting and truer to the pricetag.
    *********************



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  14. #14

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    It seems to be commonly accepted on this board that CK Obsession nowadays is a weaker variant to the powerhouse of old.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante
    It seems to be commonly accepted on this board that CK Obsession nowadays is a weaker variant to the powerhouse of old.
    ditto Lanvin Vetyver, though it does have its supporters...

  16. #16

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    I forgot I started this thread and read no further than Scentemental's post--he was going to review these and also said that the 3rd man ( which I regret to say I've never tried but have wanted to for some time) *ALSO had a different, original *and better juice than today's

    Now, I hate to interrupt anyone's burning debate as to whether M7 freh is a better summer choice than GIT, *but


    GOOD LORD!

    Yes, *I knew-- as most of you did-- that Guerlian's Vetiver is not the same, *and the concensus seemed to be that it wasn't that big of a deal; * I had *also read before from scentemental that L'Occitane had changed --which consoled me, *since I couldn't get what was so great about the new one. * Most of all I wondered where to get my hands on some old juice Santos

    BUT, in addition to The third Man, which was enough of a shock, I now read that:

    1. Monsieur Rochas is ' totaly different"
    2, Fendi Uomo is a different animal
    3. ditto Ck Obsession and Lanvin vetiver

    And THE most stunning revelation of all:

    4. There was a pre 1990 Egoiste from Chanel that rocked!?? * And it came in cocentree as well?


    I know these are claims made by various Basenoters whom, *I hasten to add, I respect-- not just Scentemental, * *but could we please have a wee bit more discussion on these *MEGA classics from anyone in the know? *A 'preview of coming attractions list' *from Scentemental? * Any others?

    I was happy enough with the thought that I might be able to score a bottle of the classic Santos. *

    But a classic Egoiste to boot? * Whoa!

    Gentlemen: my addiction/quest for the Holy Grail is soaring.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mario


    My Wardrobe

    Reviews: http://www.basenotes.net/reviews/30

    Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder.

    My Antaeus can beat up your Armani.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Old juice formula vs new, a definitive guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by iMaverick
    I'm old enough to attest that Fendi Uomo and Egoiste are different animals from their more modern counterparts. Concentration is one culprit, and the other is definitely reformulation. There's something about it that makes me think that a few notes have been substituted for more economical, generic, synthetic materials which lack a fuller personality in either.

    Wish I held on to my old bottle of Fendi, but it had really gone bad, but I still own my old Egoiste Cologne Concentree, and it's even more fuller and richer and longer lasting than the Egoiste EdT that I bought recently.

    Consider this...I'm sure synthetics are terribly cheaper than the original raw materials, and by substituting it in these newer formulations and at the same time cutting the concentration makes it for a more cheaper scent to produce hence a bigger profit margin to the House. We're REALLY getting fcuk'd over! For some reason, this is true for Men's scents, but pay $15 more like women do, and you get something heady, longlasting and truer to the pricetag.
    I share your scepticism, and allow me me to add: except in the case of musk, we usually are not made aware if and how certain (synthetic) fragrance elements can be hazardous. Once they are identified as seriously endangering our health they must be replaced. Potentially dangerous elements are sometimes replaced as a measure of precaution. The industry does this as secretly as possible for image reasons. The frags usually suffer.
    Sometimes, frags simply disappear from the shelves without an obvious reason, and the loyal buyer is left guessing. If some customers get skin allergy from a cologne like Tommy Girl, does this make headlines? Is the cologne withdrawn? No, unless it occurred often enough to make headlines!
    'Il mondo dei profumi un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

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