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  1. #1

    Default Do you try to pick their brains now?

    I guess this question is more for the members (like me) who weren't all that knowledgeable or educated about fragrances before Basenotes. *Before I came here, I was your typical oaf who went up to the men's fragrance counter and thought ... ""Ooooh, what a pwetty bottow ... I'm unna git me sum nuggie' tonite!"". * But after a year or so here, it amazes me how little most clerks at fragrance counters really know about their products. *It's almost fun now to listen to their squabble or theory about why some cost more or what category one falls in. *Now, I try to ask them questions just to "pick their brains" and maybe learn something. *Needless to say, I haven't learned a damn thing. *Some recent experiences ...

    I was at the local Sephora here in Jersey and was buying Hermes D'Orange Verte Concentree, but they also had the cologne. *So I asked the clerk "Which is stronger ... the EDT or the Cologne?". *The pretty female clerk responded " Oh, the Cologne is much stronger! *Ya know ... cologne is COLOGNE ... Eau de Toilette is just a light skin spray". *I didn't want to embarass her so I just said I wanted something light and purchased the EDT. *

    Next, I was off to Macy's. *I was looking around to sample Bvlgari Black since I forgot to spritz it at Sephora. *So I asked the man behind the counter, who was the fragrance manager, if they carried it. *He said "No, it's discontinued". *I said "Really? *By Macy's or Bvlgari?" *He said "Bvlgari discontinued it. *It wasn't selling well". *Again, I didn't have the heart to tell him to walk 30 feet to the Sephora next door and see it there. *So I just said thanks and walked away. *Not three seconds later, a female Macy's clerk walked up to me and spritzed Azzaro Chrome on a card and said to me ... " You must try this fragrance! *It's perfect for men in your age bracket" ( I'm 45 and look it). *My first reaction was to kick her in the bush ... but I didn't want to lose my sneaker. ( Yeah, she was big ) *I bought Chrome about 10 years ago and I remember tossing it back then. *So I asked her if it was new and she said " Yes, it's a new fragrance for mature men!". *Trying hard not to be rude, I just said I wasn't in the market for a "mature" fragrance.

    A few weeks earlier, I was at Nordstrom's and asked one of the clerks why they didn't carry high end lines like Creed or L'Artisan. *Her response was " Well, those are expensive fragrances, and they are very weak. *That's how they get you to buy more". *I stood there with my mouth open and said "Could you explain that?". *She then said ... " The more expensive the ingredients are in a fragrance, the shorter it lasts. *High quality ingredients dissipate more quickly, but usually smell better. *They want you to constantly re-apply them. *That's how they make their money." *Now, I really could have went to town on this clerk, but I just couldn't do it.

    Lastly, my Neiman Marcus experience was a bit better. *They seem to have the most knowledgeable staff ... though not perfect. *I was sniffing around when a female clerk started helping me ... bent on selling me her last bottle of Bel Ami for $105. *( Perfumebay has it for half that). *I told her that I wasn't interested in it so she asked me what fragrances I had and liked. *The first one that came to mind was M7. *Her response was "Yeah, I've heard of that". *Wow ... a clerk at NM who just "heard" of M7? *So she asked what else. *I said DK Men ... which was also called Fuel or Leaded. *She said she never heard of that. *So then her strategy changed ... she asked if I liked daytime/fresh or nighttime/formal. *I said fresh so she started spritzing Un Jardin sur le nil on a card. *I said " Isn't that a little feminine for a guy?". *She said " No, it will smell completely different on a guy than a woman" *Now, I really don't know if that's true or not but I wasn't about to challenge it. *I just said I wanted something more masculine. *Long story short, I wound up buying RL Purple Label. *But not before asking her why they didn't carry the likes of MPG, L'Artisan, or Serge Lutens ... she said " I never heard of those".


    All in all, I find it a lot of fun going to fragrance counters packed with the info I've learned here over the last year or so. *I just feel so confident that no one is really going to be able to con me into anything. *And if someone is really rude, I'll be able to put them in their place. *On this board here ... I still feel very small. *Especially up against some of you who have been involved in fragrance most of your teen and adult life ... and can name notes in a fragrance ... and have seemingly tried every fragrance ever created. *But out there ... I feel like a giant!

    So do you like to pick their brains?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    good story.

    i try to stay away from the sales staff. they usually just try to steer me towards whatever is the newest or whatever they've been told to push, or whatever sells best. very rarely, i'll ask for a personal opinion if i think they will give me an honest answer - basically just "which do you personally like better? this or this?"
    [SIZE=1][COLOR=RoyalBlue]
    Traveller, there is no path. You make the path as you walk. -- A. Machado[/COLOR][/SIZE]

  3. #3

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    All those reasons you list are exactly why I go directly to the sales staff. Instant entertainment!
    The pursuit of philosophy is the hope that there is more to life than we realize. By philosophy, however, we come to realize that in fact there is less to life than previously imagined.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    This is why I can't go into stores to buy fragrances anymore. My jaw drops when they try and make me buy something 'age appropriate' like Kenneth Cole Reaction or AdG.

    I just order online now.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    Same problem here in Russia.
    Nobody cares to TEACH SA... They know nothing except percentage of their profits from your buys...
    Seminars they take only about decorative cosmetics.
    Perfume seminars are so quick and plain - they should remember the notes of new perfume (and they have no idea what is incense or aloewood).
    Vetiver The Great!!!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    Really loved your post ziffy, especially the L'Artisan/Creed SA story! ;D I gotta admit, really entertaining, much like the ignorance of the SA's at the Dior boutique on the new Dior Homme scent, and trying to push Miss Dior Cherie on me just because I described it as a solid rectangular bottle! I'm still laughing at that one!

    Sadly, department store SA's are just there to sell a scent, that's all, you don't find many with a passion for fragrances and standing behind a frag counter. I was impressed by one SA at my nearby Perfumania store who actually studied a frag composition pulled appropriate scents when I said I wanted vanilla in my scents, even knew that the bottle of Guerlain Corolian they had there was different to the original, lighter and not as full...this was in comparison to another from the same store at a different shift who thought that A*Men smelled exactly the same as Lolita Lempicka au Masculin...still didn't understand why she wanted to push Lolita, when the A*Men was more expensive...oh well.

    I'm glad there are places like Sephora where you just go down the shelves, test 'em all and make your own decisions, compared to the counters at Macy's, Neimans, etc, where they pimp you the newest juice.

    So sad that Bvlgari Black is discontinued but how about a bottle of Polo Black??? Smells exactly like it! [smiley=grin.gif] ...I'm crackin' up here!
    *********************



    Close your eyes, so you can see what you're smelling.

    "Press trigger twice to release the strength of wood...the wantonness of vanilla...the sentiment of floral...the passion of spice!"


    ~My reviews~

    ~My Wardrobe~



    I WANT MORE CHYPRE!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    Quote Originally Posted by iMaverick

    Sadly, department store SA's are just there to sell a scent, that's all, you don't find many with a passion for fragrances and standing behind a frag counter. I was impressed by one SA at my nearby Perfumania store who actually studied a frag composition pulled appropriate scents when I said I wanted vanilla in my scents, even knew that the bottle of Guerlain Corolian they had there was different to the original, lighter and not as full...this was in comparison to another from the same store at a different shift who thought that A*Men smelled exactly the same as Lolita Lempicka au Masculin...still didn't understand why she wanted to push Lolita, when the A*Men was more expensive...oh well.
    As someone who's unfortunately cursed to work in the fragrance industry at a major retail chain, I can say it gets mighty lonely. No one knows anything about the scents, they just care about the money, and really, that's all we can care about most of the time. Telling someone about a great new scent won't make me another dime if they have to go somewhere else, or if it isn't a sale. Its frustrating to be passionate about my job, and research and make sure I can provide as much information as possible and then go into an enviroment that is all about, "who cares?" Hell, I'm sure I know more about fragrances than my boss!

    I'd love nothing more than to steer people to the better scents, or talk about different ones, but when all that sells most of the time is the scent du jour, it gets old. Especially when you're not making anymore than the SA right next to you who knows absolutely nothing.



    The pursuit of philosophy is the hope that there is more to life than we realize. By philosophy, however, we come to realize that in fact there is less to life than previously imagined.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    I also agree, and cant stand unknowlegdable SA's. Thats why i think us Basenoters should unite to open the ULTIMATE FRAGRANCE STORE. In which we sell just about every niche and designer fragrances along with having a ultimate Sales staff of true professionals of the fragrance industry, THE BASENOTERS

  9. #9

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    My last experience was completely the opposite. It was in a duty free in a layover in Japan. *The young lady first asked what scents I’m familiar with that I already like. * I told her the first one that came to mind—Chanel Pour Monsieur. *She led me to the Guerlain section (not the Boss or Calvin Kline--I was extremely impressed) and suggested L’Instant de Guerlain *(again I was impressed). *I told her I already have so she brought out Mitsouko saying it was one of her personal favorites and she viewed it as unisex. * I was totally taken aback by her judgment and taste and open-mindedness *(okay, okay--her beauty, too).

  10. #10

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    i like your icon, informer. heh heh.
    [SIZE=1][COLOR=RoyalBlue]
    Traveller, there is no path. You make the path as you walk. -- A. Machado[/COLOR][/SIZE]

  11. #11

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    A couple of days ago I talked to Mic about exactly this. At first I really didn't belive the stories here on basenotes. Then I started to notice that every time I enter a fragrance store there will almost certainly be standing an SA with a costumer somewhere. Somewhere is where Acqua di Gio is.

    I don't understand it because if I had to spend every day selling fragrances then I'd really like to know what I was selling so I wouldn't seem like a complete idiot if someone with just a little knowledge themselves asked for advice.

    I'm really glad I discovered this place BEFORE I started buying fragrances. Is Bvlgari Black being discontinued? NOO!! I just discovered it and it's my new favorite. I hope not...

  12. #12

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    This is a great topic! I have been offered more jobs at fragrance counters. I always seem to ask questions that totally stump the SA, so I think that's why they want me to come to work for them.

    What's in this? ( I usually get, "I am sure there is alcohol in it&quot
    Who is the designer? ("I think it was Mrs. Bulgari&quot
    What's new? ("They are all new, we send back the old ones&quot

    God! I just don't ask anymore. I really think it's tragic that somebody right off the street knows far more than the SA.

    Kelley

  13. #13

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    I would never condone applied, deliberate ignorance, especially as a sales strategy but I suspect that most large retail stores actually discourage their SA's from knowing too much about their particular retail category out of fear that an educated customer soon becomes an informed customer and a well-informed customer is someone who might abandon brick and mortar retail chains with their non competitive prices for the sheer variety and price found treasure hunting online.

    I cannot take credit for this theory. It was actually proffered by a disgruntled, extremely knowledgeable fragrance SA at a Saks I visited last year.

    Griff
    Griff
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    While browsing perfumania, the SA sprayed every perry ellis scent out on cards and then told me to pick one, without me even saying a word to her!

  15. #15

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    I think it's rather fun to walk into a Macy's and ask idiotic questions. My favorite is the legendary "What fragrance turns women on?" You'd be surprised at the responses you get, especially from the female SA's.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    While browsing perfumania, the SA sprayed every perry ellis scent out on cards and then told me to pick one, without me even saying a word to her!

    I was inside a Perfumania once, and that shall never change.............The twits I encountered make your average department store reps look like the mental giants of the fragrance world............


    ............She'd hear only the rustle of my shoes and the hiss of the door.................

  17. #17

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    How odd that someone at NM didn't know L'Artisan since they carry it. I laughed out loud at the Macy's lady who had been telling me for three weeks that the newest Givenchy was the best fragrance they had and would be perfect for me... until week four when she was told to sell something else.

    They are rare...but often times you will find a SA who really does know their stuff. At high end department stores the fragrance houses are starting to put their own employees in there. For instance, at the NM near me the Creed guy is actually employed by Creed. At Saks the Bond 9 girl is an employee of Bond 9. These houses want to make sure that their product is pushed by people knowledgable with it and they can't do it by handing out flyers and making sales sheets to give to sales assoc.

    My nicest SA experience is still going on. There was this new guy at Nordies at the fragrance counter a couple weeks ago. He was spouting the party line on a few things but quickly figured out that I knew exactly what I wanted to try and that I had my own knowledgable opinions on scents. He started asking ME about the fragrances on the counter and let me teach him a few things (all learned from the posts here). It was refreshing because you could tell he wanted to know more about the products he was trying to sell. Last time I was there I gave him some 'homework' by asking him to find scents in certain categories that he liked and could recommend. lol. anyway, he is rare...most SA's don't really care.

    The one thing I can't stand at the stores is when I approach the sample tray at the counter they will swarm all over you and stand there talking. I just want to be left alone without someone talking to me constantly telling me stuff. I usually just try to tell them I came in for something I know they don't have so they will just leave me alone.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    Quote Originally Posted by teflondog
    I think it's rather fun to walk into a Macy's and ask idiotic questions. My favorite is the legendary "What fragrance turns women on?" You'd be surprised at the responses you get, especially from the female SA's. *
    What were their responses?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    Quote Originally Posted by nsamadi
    [quote author=teflondog link=1131505747/0#14 date=1131576125]I think it's rather fun to walk into a Macy's and ask idiotic questions. My favorite is the legendary "What fragrance turns women on?" You'd be surprised at the responses you get, especially from the female SA's. *
    What were their responses?[/quote]

    When I asked a male SA this question, he told me that Azzaro Chrome was his chick magnet scent. He said, "I don't have good looks, money, or an education. But when I wear this, I can't get the women off of me." As if a scent alone could do all that, especially if you don't have good looks, money, or an education. :

    One time when I asked a female SA this question, she pointed me towards Very Irresistable. I thought this was a reasonable choice because women in general like gourmand scents. But then she aroused my suspicion by saying, "I love it. Any aquatic scent drives me wild. It reminds me of the beach." :-?


  20. #20

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    the funniest thing that ever happened to me:
    I was at dillards in the mall(can't get through
    there without being flagged down)I spied a
    stash of aramis stuff,they keep the classics
    off in a corner,caught her off guard.
    knowing it's off tester status,I asked what
    about the aramis 900( I love the dumbfounded
    look on their face)you have a tester?she actually
    said wait,grabbed a bottle of life tried to hide it,
    sprayed it on a card,and tried to pass it off as
    900,imagine the look on my face.
    it was a good price better than the net,they gave
    up on it(suckers)goin back to get some devin for
    38.00(suckers)sell everyone else the adg or life
    thanks to my fellow basenoters I know better
    peace
    R-

  21. #21

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Informer
    As someone who's unfortunately cursed to work in the fragrance industry at a major retail chain, I can say it gets mighty lonely. No one knows anything about the scents, they just care about the money, and really, that's all we can care about most of the time. Telling someone about a great new scent won't make me another dime if they have to go somewhere else, or if it isn't a sale. Its frustrating to be passionate about my job, and research and make sure I can provide as much information as possible and then go into an enviroment that is all about, "who cares?" Hell, I'm sure I know more about fragrances than my boss!
    Good to have somebody here from within the perfume world! I sympathize and would not want to be in your shoes, Informer! You could certainly write an entertaining book about stupid customer questions and answers. The agent catches me testing the same cologne for the fifth times that week - how do I explain with a smile? Or can I make friends by saying: "Just here for testing this cologne, 'cause they have it on Ebay right now" ?
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    You know, when I knew nothing about fragrances I considered fragrance reps behind the counter to be knowledgable and just assumed that they get trained for what they did. However, the more I knew about cologne, the more I realized that it simply wasn't the case.

    I don't expect fragrance reps to be kings of knowledge, but I expect them to know the basics of fragrances, to know how they work and how they're classified. And also that few fragrances are classified by age bracket. Seriously, I get offended when a rep sees me trying out a Chanel fragrance and tells me that "You know, you might want to look at Curve that we have here. It's more for your age..."

    There were two fragrance reps that I remember as being extremely knowledgable and very friendly. But 2 out of 20 isn't a good ratio. That's why Sephora is becoming my top choice; you don't get bothered by a fragrance rep trying to cram Onyx up your nose every time you enter the store. Plus you get more choices.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trasker
    My nicest SA experience is still going on. *There was this new guy at Nordies at the fragrance counter a couple weeks ago. * He was spouting the party line on a few things but quickly figured out that I knew exactly what I wanted to try and that I had my own knowledgable opinions on scents. * He started asking ME about the fragrances on the counter and let me teach him a few things *(all learned from the posts here). * It was refreshing because you could tell he wanted to know more about the products he was trying to sell. * Last time I was there I gave him some 'homework' by asking him to find scents in certain categories that he liked and could recommend. * lol. * anyway, he is rare...most SA's don't really care. *
    I'm new to all this perfumemania, so I guess I sympathize a bit with the SAs. Three months ago I didn't know a chypre from a floriental, and if it had grapefruit in it, I liked it. Last month I went to a department store (can't remember which one, maybe Marshall Fields) to sniff out some things I'd heard about here. The SA told me she had really wanted to be in clothing, but her boss had insisted she do perfumes. This was her first week. She was nervous because she didn't know anything about pefumes, but she wanted to learn. Sounds a bit like your SA.

    She directed me to the new stuff as well, which I dutifully sniffed (it's all new to me, anyway), then I asked if they had Mitsouko, which I'd heard of here. She was surprised but found it way out on the fringes of the department. Of course no testers were available. I must've looked pretty crestfallen, because she gingerly opened one of the bottles, which we sniffed together. Her response was "Ew," mine was "WOW!" which really surprised her. She managed to turn "Ew" into "Hey, possible sale here!" and let me try a little on. Good thing her boss didn't see this. I decided I'd buy it because she'd been so decent about it, and because I was pretty blown away by the fragrance, something that hadn't happened to me in a long time. Now it's my current favorite by a landslide.

    So there's one positive SA story, anyway. In the end, it wasn't her knowledge that sold me, it was her humanity. And, of course, Mitsouko itself.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    I've had to pick brains many, many times.

    First off, at a Marshall Field's (soon to be Macy's) near Chicago last year, I asked if they had anything similar to Angel Men. The SA said "Have you tried Vera Wang for Men?"

    Then, I've had bad experiences at L.S. Ayres (also soon to be Macy's). At one store in Merrillville, IN, they tried to push Acqua di Gio or Kenneth Cole Black no matter what. At another store at the ultra-busy Castleton Square mall near Indianapolis, one SA wouldn't let me touch anything but the Liz Claiborne stuff. Finally, at yet another store in Fort Wayne, they said that they just got Azzaro Onyx in last week when they had it on their shelves for over a month.

    Even Neiman Marcus isn't sacred...I've had two bad experiences at their Chicago/Michigan Avenue store, one regarding L'Instant's exclusivity to the chain (they said that it would be exclusive to NM forever when in fact other chains got it a month later) and another regarding a snobby weird pushy Creed SA. The Chicago/Northbrook store was even worse...virtually no sales help whatsoever and when I finally got a salesperson, they handed me samples of Acqua di Gio and Armani Mania and not Creeds or L'Artisans.

    The best SA experience I've had, though, was with the Saks Fifth Avenue in Indianapolis. I came in 15 minutes before closing to buy a bottle of perfume for my Mom. Despite the time limitations, the SA rung up the sale, gift-wrapped it, talked with me, and gave me a bunch of samples. I've also had very good SA experiences with the Von Maur in Fort Wayne and the Nordstrom in Indianapolis.
    Top 5 for Late Summer:
    1) Straight to Heaven - By Kilian
    2) Aventus - Creed
    3) Flower of Immortality - By Kilian
    4) L'Humaniste - Frapin
    5) Millesime Imperial - Creed

    My mission statement: "I am not afraid to keep on living - I am not afraid to walk this world alone."

  25. #25

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    I gave up trying to pick their brains long ago. I used to consider it a sport. Then it got to be a bore.... Once in a great awhile, I get a way with some witty rapport on my part. Not that many of them notice. They're too content to move on to the next victim. That said, if they try to insult my intelligence & eff with me, I'll give them back 150% and more.
    What still amazes me in my many years of fragrance purchases is how many SA's can't even tell you the top, heart & basenotes of a fragrance. Not only that, few care anything about the lines they represent beyond making the sale. To me, that's vulgar. I mean, why even THINK about hiring a person like that to represent not only the fragrance line, but the entire store? It's like hiring someone off the street for a Chanel SA position when that person has no knowledge of fashion beyond One Price Outlet.
    To be fair, one can not know all things about every fragrance, but those SAs I respect the most are the ones who will stop you & say, "You know, I'm not familiar with that line, but so&so is - let me get him for you."
    The way I see it, purchasing fragrance is a luxury. It's not something the average person on an average income does every day, therefore, that customer should be treated with respect so that he or she will want to return - and the sooner the better. There is no need for snobbism in dept store, and I think that's why I frequent them less these days. The whole fragrance-buying mood is killed by the wrong SA, and there goes your whole day.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    The best SA experience I've had, though, was with the Saks Fifth Avenue in Indianapolis. I came in 15 minutes before closing to buy a bottle of perfume for my Mom. Despite the time limitations, the SA rung up the sale, gift-wrapped it, talked with me, and gave me a bunch of samples. I've also had very good SA experiences with the Von Maur in Fort Wayne and the Nordstrom in Indianapolis.[/quote]

    have to agree with you on Saks Fifth Ave - even the one in Chicago has SA's that go above & beyond the call of merely making the sale. It takes real confidence to talk a person out of a fragrance that they are ill-suited for into something they will wear & love for life. Saks' SAs are courteous, helpful, respectful, friendly, & the most knowledgeable of all the stores I have frequented. Even when you're only there to sample a fragrance, if you have shopped there before, the SA will give you a vial or two to take & try at home. From the first bottle of Habanita that I purchased there in 1980 ( the SA priced 5 different bottles and sizes so that I could walk away with one on my then-secretary/working girl's budget) right down to a few older Carons in the past week, I have never had a bad experience in any of the Saks stores. And that's saying a lot for such a smaller franchise. I've often wondered how it is that 3 sales assistants can take care of 15 customers every half hour at Saks, and when you go to, say, Neiman Marcus, they have 7 people behind one counter and not one of them knows their #ss from a hole in the ground, aside from the dept manager.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Do you try to pick their brains now?

    I've never had a bad experience with any SAs! The only problem I have is the fact that my italian is average at best and if ask for something like Cuiron, they hand me a bottle of Curve, Guerlain or something else. Sometimes if I ask if I could try on a scent they pick it up, go to the counter and bag it!

    I was very flattered today, asking around for some scents in a couple of stores. One SA asked if I want to buy their line of products for my own store (I don't have one) and another was amazed that I could describe the notes in a scent.

    I can fully understand that some SAs, especiallt in larger department stores try to push you the latest City Glam crap or whatever is on display. If a new scent arrives it's only fair that they try to entroduce it to the public, no matter how bad it is!

    It must be very hard for the sales person to sell something to a basenoter that probably knows 10 times more about fragrances than they do. Maybe we should have a warning sign stuck to our chest, letting the shop know that an expert is about to enter the store.

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