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  1. #271
    DWFII's Avatar
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    Default Re: gender sensibilities

    Quote Originally Posted by mtgprox05 View Post
    I think the problem I have with your stance, is the fact that you continue to go back to this scientific nonsense. I'm all for science, but in this instance we've already established the existence of cultural pressures, what proof do you have that these cultural pressures are based in scientific fact? There are many things which need not be explained to the masses, the origin of societal norms is one of them. They just are. And I except that, and abide by the overwhelming majority of them, in fact I tend to fall into the camp that doesn't like to wear feminines. But I have no qualms whatsoever with defending others completely natural right to do so. Again, I'll present this question to you. If all fragrances existed in a world without marketing, and all came in simply labeled laboratory-esque bottles. Would you, or anyone else be able to identify if the clear liquid inside was for men or women? I highly doubt it.
    First off, I'm not attacking anyone for wearing whatever they want. That's an assumption that you...and perhaps a few others with private agendas...are imposing on this conversation. So defend "others completely natural right to do so" all you want, I'll not object.

    I have suggested that because men are women are different...on so many levels...that we would naturally tend to prefer different notes.

    As for your question...I know I what I like. And because I don't live in a insulated, cotton-candy world I have a pretty good guess...and educated guess..what most men would prefer, in a general way. I suspect that in a world without marketing, things would pretty much fall out just the same as they are now. If you don't understand markets...and the consequent drive to maximize profit...you won't understand that marketing is just a tool to that end. That means that for the most part, markets and marketing have to respond to demand.Their ability to create demand is far more limited that they would like to believe. And history has proven that over and over again.

    Here's a hypothetical for you...If a man wanted to put on a dress and make-up, for whatever reason...a lark or gender ambiguity...would you be surprise to see him choose a typically feminine fragrance to complete the masquerade? Would you be surprised if he chose Yatagan? Take your time, there's no quiz...answer honestly. And I suspect the same scenario applies if we replace the man with a woman.
    Tight Stitches
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  2. #272

    Default Re: gender sensibilities

    Quote Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
    Here's a hypothetical for you...If a man wanted to put on a dress and make-up, for whatever reason...a lark or gender ambiguity...would you be surprise to see him choose a typically feminine fragrance to complete the masquerade? Would you be surprised if he chose Yatagan? Take your time, there's no quiz...answer honestly. And I suspect the same scenario applies if we replace the man with a woman.
    Perfume notes are still worn according to the perception of the wearer--just as with clothing.

    As much as many will assert (from their cultural viewpoint) that the kilt is manly, other cultures will assert the kilt is a women's skirt. Why do you think the Highland troops were called "ladies from Hell" by their adversaries? Not everyone shares the same gender perceptions.

    It's the same as scent. (Many a young boy has tried his mother's perfume because it's "pretty." Adolescent boys then buy scent according to the marketing, i.e. "machismo," of his scent.) Marketing is a social construct, and has no basis in nature.



    (P.S. I will say again that I *like* the kilt...)
    "No elegance is possible without it...perfume is a part of you." Gabrielle "Coco" Chanel
    Currently wearing: Poison by Christian Dior

  3. #273
    DWFII's Avatar
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    Default Re: gender sensibilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    I attended a professional awards ceremony where recipients--both male and female--were presented with plaques AND bouquets of flowers. The men were delighted with their awards and *surprised* and delighted with their bouquets. Not one man refused his bouquet. Flowers are not just for women; just ask any burly man from Hawaii about wearing the lei.

    It's all perception. There are no genetic/gender absolutes. If memory serves, the OP is a proud wearer of the kilt--in Celtic history, a very manly (and even war-like) article of clothing. The swing of the kilt on a Highland soldier is a virile swagger.

    Other people will offer to differ, as each is entitled to his/her own opinion, that it is nothing more than a man in a skirt swinging his hips. I happen to enjoy seeing a man wear the kilt; the full-dress of a man in an officer's uniform of the 42nd Highland Infantry of the 1840s, is the ultimate in girl-catching, peacock male form: tall feather bonnet, rosettes, garter flashes, dirk (long knife) and sgian dubh (hose knife) and diced hose--worn over muscular legs!

    Again, some people will say, "Ha--still a man in a skirt!" And it's traditional for a Scots-MAN to put a flower in his bonnet--a sprig of heather.

    You see? It is all perception (or even cultural)--and not obsolutes.

    What smells feminine to one person smells masculine to the next.
    There are several mis-perceptions, particularly about kilt, here...

    First, no one that I know wearing the kilt swings his hips. It is a function of gait pure and simple. This is akin to people who have never danced Latin thinking that the hip movement in a cha-cha or rumba is the key. To a Latin man hip movement is considered affected--like a heifer ambling down a bumpy road. No deliberate hip movement is involved. It has to do with the way the foot is placed on the ground and weight shifted to it.

    Second, flowers on a bonnet are not the rule. It is the clan plant that is placed on the bonnet. Mine (MacSuibhne) is boxwood....no flowers

    Third, the kilt evolved from a larger garment that was essentially a long and wide and undifferentiated piece of cloth. Looking like and functioning as a blanket and raincoat. As a garment it is older than trousers. It is more nearly concurrent with the leine (sp?) than any other men's wear. And the leine was imply a long tunic.

    Fourth, it was a utilitarian garment for men who did not ride horeseback and had to travel light and warm in adverse conditions. It had nothing whatsoever to do with being a peacock or arousing women's affections. Or for war. And in fact in any instances, Scots went into battle bare-arsed naked.

    It has been said that the kilt made casual fornication easy and diarrhea bearable.
    Last edited by DWFII; 6th April 2010 at 06:47 PM.
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  4. #274

    Default Re: gender sensibilities

    Quote Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
    There are several mis-perceptions, particularly about kilt, here...

    First, no one that I know wearing the kilt swings his hips. It is a function of gait pure and simple. This is akin to people who have never danced Latin thinking that the hip movement in a cha-cha or rumba is the key. To a Latin man hip movement is considered affected--like a heifer ambling down a bumpy road. No deliberate hip movement is involved. It has to do with the way the foot is placed on the ground and weight shifted to it.

    Second, flowers on a bonnet are not the rule. It is the clan plant that is placed on the bonnet. Mine (MacSuibhne) is boxwood....no flowers

    Third, the kilt evolved from a larger garment that was essentially a long and wide and undifferentiated piece of cloth. Looking like and functioning as a blanket and raincoat. As a garment it is older than trousers. It is more nearly concurrent with the leine (sp?) than any other men's wear. And the leine was imply a long tunic.

    Fourth, it was a utilitarian garment for men who did not ride horeseback and had to travel light and warm in adverse conditions. It had nothing whatsoever to do with being a peacock or arousing women's affections. Or for war. And in fact in any instances, Scots went into battle bare-arsed naked.

    It has been said that the kilt made casual fornication easy and diarrhea bearable.
    Yes, it *is* nice to go "regimental," isn't it? LOL! I know enough about the kilt, and, yes, kilts *do* swing when you walk, like it or not. It's those knife pleats, so carefully made to face the wearer's right. (You can always wear those plaid panties called "trews," which is also a term for trousers, esp. to dance the sword dance, or ghille calum, or the Argyll broadswords--those dances will *really* swing the kilt.)

    BTW, there is a song called, "The Swing of the Kilt." Google "swing of the kilt." Scottish country dancers know this one:

    http://my.strathspey.org/dd/crib-comment/1411/

    Finally, even if *your* clan does not wear flowers in the bonnet, some do. Heather and juniper are some options. You are generalising--again.

    Yes, I know all about the origin of the kilt. The "small" modern kilt (with stitched pleats) v. the large kilt worn last in the 18th century. The large, unbelted was an all-purpose garment and a dead soldier could even use his as a burial shroud.

    BTW, the Scots also wore "moggens," footless hose, and fought barefoot.

    However *you* (or I) choose to look at the kilt, there will be some who say, "It's a skirt." All perception...

    P.S. The expression "ladies from Hell" actually went from an insult to a badge of honour! The Germans certainly thought the kilt was a women's skirt. Some people see "genders" in perfume this way, too.

    Go to post #7 in this Scots forum, it talks about the swing of the kilt:

    http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...eaforth-48989/

    BTW, there *are* things made for women expressly--such as some clans having dress plaids (just as some have hunting plaids). These tartans are on a white background and worn only by women--but I have seen American men wearing "dress" plaids in their kilts. I guess no one told them...

    As in plaids and perfumes: wear what *you* like and enjoy it.
    Last edited by Primrose; 6th April 2010 at 07:21 PM.
    "No elegance is possible without it...perfume is a part of you." Gabrielle "Coco" Chanel
    Currently wearing: Poison by Christian Dior

  5. #275

    Default Re: gender sensibilities

    Quote Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
    Several of your posts seem to be imputing motives for people that are too personal for you to have any basis for making other than wishful thinking or speculation.

    If people refuse to accept the scientific research that has been done...by some fairly credible women scientists...without hard evidence to refute it, one is left suspecting that no amount of facts will convince them to abandon the fantasy world that they have constructed for themselves.

    One can't concede, on one hand, that men and women are different--have different brain organizations, different bio-chemical pathways, etc.,--and then throw out all the implications that threaten one's world view. It's not a rational response.
    How so? I'm talking about my own perception of the world, which is all I have to refer to. If I disagree with a scientist (whether male or female makes no difference to me) so what? Scientific studies have varying levels of accuracy... whether they are experiential or empirical, etc. etc. etc. and scientific studies of the same subject OFTEN come up with quite different results. Particularly where behavior and psychology are concerned.

    I am responding rationally based upon my understanding of my world, which is apparently quite different from your understanding of yours.

    If you wanna call that a "fantasy" so be it. I believe your world view may also be referred to as such. There's more to human nature than any number of scientific studies can qualify or quantify... just wait a year or two until the next series of studies come out and see.

    Cheers...
    Actias luna's fragrance reviews | Now blogging with AromiErotici, Carrie Meredith, Mimi Gardenia, Sugandaraja, Asha, bluesoul, shamu1, Redneck Perfumisto and Daly Beauty at Il Mondo di Odore
    Art: Actias luna's other hobby
    - along with some impromptu "performance writing" here on Basenotes!

  6. #276

    Default Re: gender sensibilities

    This thread no longer has anything to do with fragrance and everyone is clearly pretty firmly set in their ways - I'm closing it now to avoid going further down this road. Thanks all!
    I'm a colognosaurus. Rawr!

  7. #277

    Default What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    The original Opium by YSL comes to mind. I think Chanel No.5 is pretty unisex. Ombre Rose. I'll think of some others...

  8. #278
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Anything by Guerlain - Shalimar,Mitsouko ,Sous Le Vent...
    In fact I think a man can pull off anything he wants - never mind what the label says !
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...o-Profumo-Onda
    For sale. Carnal Flower and Vero Profumo Onda.

  9. #279
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Although discussed a hundred times, this topic is still fun.

    From my wardrobe:

    Guerlain Insolence edt(yes I am crazy, but love it an it gets lot of compliments!!!)
    Guerlain Shalimar edc
    Guerlain Mitsouko edt
    Agent Povocateur edp
    Creed Irisia
    Floris Edwardian Bouquet
    Floris China Rose
    Les Parfums de Rosine Une zest de Rose
    Lalique Perles

    The following are unisex but quite feminine:
    Dipqtyque Oponé
    Bond No.9 West Side
    Bond No.9 West Broadway
    Etat Libre d´Orange Charogne

    Cheers

    Pablo

  10. #280
    Sur la Plage

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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    His pee pee will fall off if he wears a woman's fragrance!
    Please feel free to check out my Swap Thread - Patou pour Homme, L'Instant de Guerlain PH Extreme, Dior Homme Intense, Pure Malt, Pure Coffee and many more! Click Here For My Swap Thread

  11. #281

    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Quote Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post
    His pee pee will fall off if he wears a woman's fragrance!
    Now, now, JC... LOL!

    This is truly a tired, worn-out old topic, but a man can wear any scent he chooses to wear, even nicking his wife's Fifi Chachnil...and a woman can a happily borrow her husband's Habit Rouge or Bel Ami...or even have her own bottles of Derby or Equipage.

    For starters, I'd try Guerlain, as Mimi said, with Jicky, Mitsouko and Sous Le Vent for starters.

    In all, forget the gender label and just enjoy the scent.
    Last edited by Primrose; 15th July 2010 at 11:08 PM.
    "No elegance is possible without it...perfume is a part of you." Gabrielle "Coco" Chanel
    Currently wearing: Poison by Christian Dior

  12. #282

    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    Now, now, JC... LOL!

    This is truly a tired, worn-out old topic, but a man can wear any scent he chooses to wear, even nicking his wife's Fifi Chachnil...and a woman can a happily borrow her husband's Habit Rouge or Bel Ami...or even have her own bottles of Derby or Equipage.

    For starters, I'd try Guerlain, as Mimi said, with Jicky, Mitsouko and Sous Le Vent for starters.

    In all, forget the gender label and just enjoy the scent.
    I DO have my own bottle of Derby, thank you very much, as well as PdN New York. When I first started exploring masculines I "gave" them to my male friends so I could enjoy them - now I skip the subterfuge and just get them for myself.

  13. #283

    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfume_Addict View Post
    I DO have my own bottle of Derby, thank you very much, as well as PdN New York. When I first started exploring masculines I "gave" them to my male friends so I could enjoy them - now I skip the subterfuge and just get them for myself.
    Here, here, Perfume_Addict! I wear my very own Derby, Habit Rouge, Pour Un Homme, Le 3eme Homme, Equipage, Terre d'Hermes, Mouchoir de Monsieur and Parfum d'Habit, plus many more "for men." I enjoy them all! The heck with the label.
    "No elegance is possible without it...perfume is a part of you." Gabrielle "Coco" Chanel
    Currently wearing: Poison by Christian Dior

  14. #284

    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Quote Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post
    His pee pee will fall off if he wears a woman's fragrance!
    So what happens when a woman wears a man's fragrance? Ooooh! Don't even wanna go there!

  15. #285

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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    I'm sorry I didn't realize fragrance was gender based. I always wear what I like period.

  16. #286
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    In my case...

    These ones I wear with confidence:

    Guerlain's Mitsouko EdT
    Guerlain's Shalimar EdT
    Dana's Tabu
    Worth's Je Reviens
    Chanel Nº 19
    Plus two made by a local company, L'Estress and Relax (funny, there is another cheapy targetted to men that smells the same as L'Estress).

    And this one I regard as more femenine than the previous ones, but I enjoy it nonetheless:

    Magie Noire by Lancôme

    These ones are very femenine IMO, soI don't wear them but I enjoy trying them:

    Paco Rabanne's Calandre
    Chanel Nº 5 - as a matter of fact, I find clear analogies between the top notes in this one, Dunhill 1934 and a dirty cheap local fragrance that Halo would laugh at me if I were to tell him the brandname.
    YSL's Opium - sooner or later I will be buying this one.

  17. #287
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Come on Pollux, tell me....and be sure that, indeed, i will lmao.

    I forgot that I usually wear Daisy by Marc Jacobs, it is uber-feminine to some, but on me it is a fresh, kinda woody cilantro-peppery-green accord.

  18. #288
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    a short quote from the book Deluxe- How luxury lost it's luster.
    Labs are known to recycle a scent they really believe in. They adapt their discourse to make it fit the brief and include marketing studies in the pitch that show it has strong approval ratings. Perfume companies will also buy juices that they think are marketable and keep them in reserve until they find the right brand for them. L'Oréal sat on one such essai for three years until Viktor & Rofl chose it for Flowerbomb.

    I was wondering about what if Viktor & Rofl didn't pick Flowerbomb, instead another mens fashion designer chose it and name the fragrance something masculine...Drop-the-F-bomb maybe

    Would it still making the person feel girly when wearing it? i dunno...

  19. #289
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    In my wardrobe, I have Mitsouko and Shalimar. I wouldn't mind getting more frags that are marketed for women. My choices are:

    Angel by Thierry Mugler
    Agent Provocateur
    Lovely by Sarah Jessica Parker
    Tea Rose by Perfumer's Workshop
    Arpege for women by Lanvin
    Diorella by Christian Dior
    Cuir by Lancome
    Habanita by Molinard
    Bal a Versailles by Jean Desprez
    L'heure bleue by Guerlain
    Apres L'ondee by Guerlain

    Who am I kidding? So silly. I'm pretty sure all of these will be part of my wardrobe someday. The only question is, when? hahaha
    Last edited by volley2; 16th July 2010 at 07:42 AM.

  20. #290

    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    I'm currently wearing
    - Angel Peony - Thierry Mugler (on me this one smells mossy, not floral)
    - L de Lolita Lempicka
    - American Girl - Hopes & Dream by Bath & Body works
    - Incanto Charms (when mixed with CK Euphoria for Men)
    - Alien by Thierry Mugler (aside from the fact that this is a floral fragrance, I find it smells more masculine than other "for men" floral fragrances a.k.a Kenzo Power and Fleur du Male)
    - Flower Bomb (from time to time, this one gives me the "old woman floral" mix with gourmand vibe, so I just wear this one when I want to smell half sexy half old lady lol)
    Last edited by jasonx; 16th July 2010 at 03:24 AM.

  21. #291

    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    of the lady smells i have checked out i think angel for women is pretty easily transferable, d and g light blue for women is talked about a lot,i cannot think of too many offhand the perfumes i have smelled are usually very feminine in my opinion.

  22. #292
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    Redneck Perfumisto's Avatar
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Quote Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post
    His pee pee will fall off if he wears a woman's fragrance!
    LMAO

    And it can only be reattached with Kouros!
    * * * *

  23. #293

    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    I wear Parure Guerlain today, it`s quite great chypre to wear for men.

    Reminds both Mitsouko and 1000 Patou
    Vetiver The Great!!!

  24. #294

    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    LMAO

    And it can only be reattached with Kouros!
    thank god i have a bottle lol

  25. #295
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    A quick list:

    Rose Poivree
    Mitsouko
    Sous le Vent
    Diorella
    Bvlgari Black
    1000
    Givenchy lll
    Magie Noire
    Eau de Rochas
    Bel Respiro

    -- Many more.

    _
    Last edited by pluran; 30th July 2010 at 06:08 PM.

  26. #296

    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Love Bal a Versaille...I feel like an 18th century dandy when I wear it. Hmmmm, Shalimar. I don't know about that one. It seems so ultra femme to me. Really turned on recently to Metal by Paco Rabanne.
    Last edited by colormechris; 16th July 2010 at 07:01 AM.

  27. #297
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    I believe the very first "Female-Marketed" scent I fell in love with was Hermes Hiris. Every since Hiris, I've been very opened to "Female fragrances", and have gone on the acquire quite a handful. Of course, I'd only buy and wear what I feel is wearable on myself.

  28. #298
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    I had some Shalimar edt on the back of my hand the other night and my girlfriend thought it was Bois du Portugal.
    Last edited by pluran; 30th July 2010 at 07:03 PM.

  29. #299
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Sod pigeonholing - wear whatever your nose appreciates regardless of the gender it is marketed towards.
    Last edited by JON RODGERS; 16th July 2010 at 07:30 AM.

  30. #300
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    Default Re: What female fragrances do you think a man can wear? (and vice versa).

    Magie Noire is more "masculine" than some masculine leather frags i have.

    I just smelt the rare Must de Cartier Eau Fine at my favourite hole-in-the-wall. Its going to be mine on Monday! Its marketed as "feminine" but it is a beautiful frag that doesnt feel/smell gender-constrained.

    My wife wears lots of my frags.
    ointments and perfume delight the heart....

    #BBOG!
    Currently wearing: Royal Water by Creed

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