and who exactly is fredric malle?
"My friends don't want to smell like their maids"- said frederic malle as reported by
(see front page)
What a stuck up, elitist, unpleasant man. Not an attitude I want to buy in to.
and who exactly is fredric malle?
Well, do you ?
Scentimental didn't write that. That's the article title........
Having previously had a cleaning woman come in once a week, I can safely I also didn't want to smell like her either
I don't want to smell like a maid either.
Confusing 'Seeing' with 'Being' has always been the root problem of The Aloof who never appreciate the paradox, whereby, by their attitude, they betray a deep identification with the object of their disdain.
Last edited by Guidion; 26th July 2006 at 11:05 PM.
I'm confused. You want your friends to smell like Frederic Malle's maid? Or someone else's maid?
Or wait...you want Frederic Malle's friends to smell like YOUR maid?
Frederic Malle's maid should want her friends to smell like Geir Ness's chauffeur. And her gardener to smell like Henry Cabot Lodge's publicist.
(Note: Neither Henry Cabot Lodge nor his publicist (or either of their maids) were available for comment at the time of this printing.)
Now....what is it you're offended by?
[QUOTE=DrBubba]I'm confused. You want your friends to smell like Frederic Malle's maid? Or someone else's maid?
Or wait...you want Frederic Malle's friends to smell like YOUR maid?
damnit, I always do that! When I try to tamper with the quote to only quote people on certian parts of their post, it doesn't appear as a quote. What am I doing wrong? Sorry if it seems like I'm hijacking the post, not my intention. I agree that that is an elitist thing to say and it makes me glad I don't feel the need to spend $150 on one of his fragrances.
If Malle said this, I think it has more to do with the tone. I also wouldn't want to smell like a maid (and how do we know that there aren't basenotes members who are maids and that all the maids don't smell good?)
If he said it in a funny way I think there's no problem with that; but if you could notice from his tone the despise towards the maids, like they should be ashamed because they are maids and weren't lucky to be born in a wealthy family like he probably was and because they can't afford the scents made under his brand, like his friends (customers ) can, then it's not so nice...
It also depends on if he means his maid when she shows up for work...or when she's done with work.
I don't think anyone can pass judgement until/unless we smell his maid. She may have serious issues and he just hasn't figured out how to tell her.
[quote=Paul G]Scentimental didn't write that. That's the article title........
sorry. my mistake. corrected now.
I'd be fine with my girlfriend smelling like a maid! I just prefer not to smell pretty myself.
I gave my maid a bottle of McQueen's Kingdom and I wear it as well. Who cares? I just want all the people of the world to smell wonderful! Actually, I am trying to get everyone addicted to the fragrance bug.
i think if you re-read the article, it's not malle who said this, or if it is he means that his friends said that to him.
there was a thread a while back about someone meeting malle and how nice and down to earth he was. I have read this on other occaisions as well and personally i think malle has built a fine company, their customer service is excellent, they corresponded with me through several emails to find out which samples would be best suited to me, and then they sent three huge 5ml spray samples.
"...fragrance is a silent language that does not use words. One can express with fragrance things that cannot be expressed in any other way." - Jacques Polge
"There might be bugs on some of your mugs,Originally Posted by paintrman
But there ain't no bugs on me".
Sorry, just could not resist!
Disagree with FM. And they did not send my anything, not even a response to my e-mail.
Again (as I've said this before in another post), I don't believe that wearing perfume counts as conspicuous consumption. Even if that perfume costs $100-$200+ dollars, it is not something that any sane person would do just to show off. Here is why.
-Try asking random people who F. Malle is. The look on their face will undoubtedly be the same face I get when weighing the various virtues of Pratt & Whitney or General Electric jet engines. People don't know, and they don't care that they don't know. Perfume (especially male perfume) has to be one of the absolute smallest online communities out there. Mentioning your new bottle of Yatagan will be just as prestigious as mentioning your bottle of Carnal Flower, because virtually no one knows what either of them are. In the field of public consumption of perfume, price does not equate to image.
-Perfume is not really something that you talk about with people who would otherwise see your expensive suit, car, pool, cellphone, haircut, etc. Those people who do find out what you're wearing either secretly don't care, already want to get you in bed no matter what, or do know and understand what you're wearing. The last category cannot honestly happen to people more than a few times in a lifetime.
-Perfume is perceived as a rather personal thing. Sure, expensive lingerie MIGHT constitute conspicuous consumption, but why on earth would you do that in front of your closest friends/SO?
I'm tired, and I apologize for beating this like a dead horse. I apologize for the grammatic ambiguity of that last sentence.
No offense to anyone, but even if Malle is a raving, elitist, chauvenist pig: big deal. It's perfume. Read about Hugo Boss's past before passing spurious judgment on this guy. I think that other posts have already made it clear that Malle is a decent guy, anyways.
Nihil Obstat Ben
I agree with what greyhue says. Most of my male friends are more than happy with generic Aqua di Gio/CK bottles, and dont understand why I would spend $100+ on a Malle or Creed PERFUME/COLOGNE.
I can't see why you think him unpleasant for his comment.
If his friends don't want to smell like their maids, well, they'd probably be more inclined to want to smell like their butlers. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
Really, I agree with Renato! What do you find objectionable about his comment? Maybe some men would like to smell like a maid, and that's fine. But most men don't want to smell very girly.
Looking around at the chaos in my house right now, I'd be thankful just to have a maid: regardless of how she smells!
Woah ho! Can anyone on basenotes really be offended by a comment about not wanting to smell like their maids???? I believe I detect a bit of irony, and washery, too.
I'm sure there are maids amoung us, and I'm equally sure they don't want to smell like the other maids, either. I have no problem assuming the average maid, or waitress, or kindergarden teacher doesn't blow a hundred bucks on a niche scent. The average maid would be wearing a reasonably priced, easily available fragrance. Like one of my personal favs-- Paris.
But anyway! If *I* spend a whopping sum for a tiny bottle, I want it to smell amazing and special--I don't want to go krogering and have the cashier say 'Oh, that smells just like my Lipstick Rose I've worn today!'
I *beg* your pardon!!? This is the classic Paris by Yves St. Laurent, I'll have you know. *sniff* I don't wear knock-offs. You should be able to tell that by the genuine Froot-Loops in my cart.
But I digress. And I confess. I am a fragrance SNOB. I am unreasonably and equally proud of my cream Pur desir de Gardenia in the collectable tiny tins (I have a dozen @ $1.50 each on the half price sale) as I am of my bell bottle of Un Lys by Serge Lutens (full price, shipped from Paris.) They are the best. And *I* know it, because I'm so smart.
I like Ralph Lauren Blue. But I don't wear it much--I don't want strangers to nod and say "Oh, that's Blue!" Even if they are smiling, and say how much they like it. (Happened to me a couple of times...) I feel like they should as well be saying "Oh, that Nice-N-Easy's #18! It's such a warm golden brown--my sister uses that shade, but I go for Clairol in Honey Blonde. And I see you favor L'Eggs pantyhose--aren't they great!"
I mean, where's the magic in that?
Do you see what I'm getting at?
If so, please PM me with an explanation.......
Last edited by Shycat; 27th July 2006 at 02:32 AM.
Please, spritz responsibly.
I don't find the comment offensive at all. I can see how some would construe it, but I don't this is how it is meant.
I think he's saying that people want to wear unique scents that have kind of an exclusivity about them, something the masses wouldn't know of... Like wearing a bespoke suit. Have you ever been to an event and saw someone wearing the SAME shirt that you are wearing? It's embarassing and funny. Kind of the same thing. You want to smell good and mysterious. It kills it when a layperson can immediately say "He's wearing LeMale." It takes an experience and reduces it to shorthand.
It's the same reason that WE don't wear Aqua di Gio. It has nothing to do with the price one way or another-- It's about finding a fragrance that the average "Joe" isn't likely to smell of. Take your own personal favorite scent for an example. How would you feel if tomorrow, every Tom, Dick, and Harry you met on the street started wearing it? You'd hate it.
Also, I wanted to add that as a waiter, I'm at about the same rung on the professional ladder as a maid...
And I get obviously a perverse thrill in wearing Creeds, L'Artisans, Comme des Garçons...and yes, Malle's Vetiver Extraordinaire to work. I know I mentioned it once--the first time I wore a Creed to work... it was Original Vetiver. And as I was reaching over a table to move a water glass, the man at the table started looking me up and down. I started to walk away but he called me back. He looked at me intensely for a moment, as if something was not quite right... then he just said it "Pardon me for asking you this...but do you come from MONEY?"
I was taken aback by it. It was the kind of comment that a lot of people would take offense to, but I enjoyed the directness. So I asked him to elaborate.
He said something like, "well I have a hunch that your family has money and you're just kind of 'slumming it' by waiting tables. There's something about you that just tells me that you come from old money."
I couldn't even gauge WHY he'd say all this to me out of the blue--then after five minutes I thought it was possibly and probably the cologne I was wearing. A Creed. It was just ODD that a random guy would smell the OV and mistake me for some sort of "blue-blood". For all the hype and criticisms of Creed, this is about as much of a blind test as you'll find and yes, Creeds CAN get you mistaken for the upper crust. So there ya have it!
Oh yea, I have received similar reaction at work with Original Vetiver. Theres something about this scent. Its VERY appropriate for work/office wear and is amazingly constructed, mugler cologne or no mugler cologne.
I really don't know how to reply to this without getting too political, which I don't want to do, but I suppose that cultural history may have something to do with differences in interpretation.
To me it's a "pulling of rank" and a putting down of those born in less fortunate circumstance with no regard for their potential.
(I'm restraining myself heavilly here)
moderaters please feel free to delete if this is likely to cause trouble.
Well I also think that taken on it's own, it was a bit of a snobbish comment, speaking myself as a working class person.
On the other hand, it doesn't necessarily make him "bad" or anything. We all say "the wrong thing", off-guard, now and then and we can't all be perfectly politically correct all the time, it would be too exhausting.
The context should be considered. For someone like Malle (who according to the article, has "the countenance of a seventeenth century king"), having a "maid" is probably no big deal and the remark was just a slight faux-pas. I also read the thread recently where someone met him in a shop and he was very civil and kind apparently. Also his company are generous with samples, something I have to admire.
If I was a maid myself reading it, I might be momentarily vexed. Mind you, some maids may well be wearing classy perfumes themselves; we've seen in the post above that there are waiters wearing Creed and L'Artisan to work, so the issue is not a simple one.
Interesting thread anyway. And some very amusing posts!
hmmm, even though you may not run into people who "know and understand" fragrances and fragrance connoisseurship where you live "more than a few times in a lifetime"...
i can honestly say that has not my been experience living and working in a large city. but since you probably do not have a Barneys, Bergdorf Goodman and Bloomingdales all within a 2 block radius of your office... i can totally understand how you might have this view.
then again, maybe they all just want to get me into bed "no matter what".
Originally Posted by greyhueofdoubt
frederic malle lives in a world completely different from the one most of us live in... I don't blame him for what he said at all... its completley natural to think and talk like that when you live in 10 million dollar palaces and use a learjet like a car... and if you happen to be a maid and you read this and get mad... well... hey! thats just the way it works. I'm sure you talk down about somebody / some group all the time too. the malle line isn't exactly positioned to be marketed to maids anyways... and no I don't think im anybody special either... im just telling it how i see it
I still don't see the problem with what he said, but I'm not going to belabor the point.
what you say reminds me of a passage in Plautus' play Mostellaria:Originally Posted by czesc
Tranio (city slave): "You smell of garlic. You thing of filth, you hick, goat, pig-sty, you mud-and-manure, you!"
Grumio (country slave): "Well, what do you want? Everybody can't smell of perfumes just because you do, or sit at the head of the table, or live on the fine food you do. You can have your grouse and fancy fish and fowl. But let me go my way on a meal of garlic. You're rich and I'm poor, and that's that."
not exactly the same thing, but you get the picture.
Reading FM's comment in its context, I think that he simply wanted to emphasize the distinctiveness of his own fragrance line. Of course the statement itself reeks of a deeply rooted disdain towards working class people (which is a rather common phenomenon among "old money" people in Europe), but I'm sure that most maids in France won't be losing any sleep on it.
Woh, do you honestly think that Malle lives in a $10 million dollar palace? I REALLY doubt that. I read somewhere that his company rakes in about 1 mil a year. So yea, the guy is comfortable, but I don't think he's filthy rich either. Please correct me if I'm wrong and he is in fact filthy rich.
I don't think what he said is so horrible, but to all you guys saying things like "I can't imagine what is possibly wrong with what he said", c'mon, you should be able to figure out what is pissing off the people who are upset even if you disagree. Imagine Malle saying that in a totally sneering voice, and THEN it becomes offensive. I'm not mad because I don't think that he meant any harm, but y'all should try to see from the different perspectives here.
Just about anything that anyone would say in a totally sneering voice would be offensive.Imagine Malle saying that in a totally sneering voice, and THEN it becomes offensive.
Given the tone of the article and the lack of contextual support from the author (Then with a sneer and a uppity little snort, Malle said, " Maids stink!"), I just simply can't see the point in assuming he meant anything offensive by it, nor can I even get offended by it as it stands.
I don't want to smell like a mechanic, a garbage man, a fry cook, or a bartender. Not any SPECIFIC person who happens to BE of that profession, since we all know Indie Guy is a bartender and probably smells great. However, I was also a bartender and I know that most bartenders generally tend to smell like beer past a certain point in their shift (depending on which bar and/or what TYPE of bar they work at...I worked at a college dive bar...I stunk...you did not want to smell like me...end of story). I imagine that at some point in the day, garbagemen smell fabulous, or at least some of them do, however, for a good portion of their day, I'm sure they smell like something I don't want to smell like.
He's not talking about anyone specific. He's using a generalization and a similie to get a point across. Maids, at some point, will smell like cleaning supplies, dust, and floor wax, furniture polish, and probably sweat. Malle wants his friends to not smell like that. (If he did, he'd have created Demeter Fragrance Library instead of his company, no?)
What's wrong with that? Peronsally, i think its a little strange for people on a fragrance forum to read so much into a scent-maker or fragrance company owner's comments that they think he's making some kind of social commentary and attacking the working class when all he's doing is presenting a justification for why he got into what he does. For god's sake, he simply saying he wanted his friends to smell nice. He didn't say he wanted his friends not to smell like Mary, that shiftless cretin that cleans his troilet and is barely fit to lick his shoes. He didn't say he didn't want his friends to smell like a member of any particular race or country. If he had, then I'd definitely see the point. "Oh wow! Frederic Malle said he didn't want his friends to smell like Albanians! The outrage!" (Note: no offense meant if there are any Albanians on the forums...I picked your country at random...I imagine there's no "National Smell" for Albania, hence my point...that would actually be worthy of being offended by if he'd said something like that...if you ARE here and ARE Albanian, you smell great, I'm sure...which is the whole point).
I think the people who are freaking out over what he said are simply reading WAY too much into it and looking for something to freak out about.
It would be the same thing if somehow, someone were to become outraged at Marlen's last article about Jasina and tried to claim that he was making some sort of social commentary about Singaporeans, simply because they had lots of cheap and discontinued fragrances at that store.
Last edited by DrBubba; 28th July 2006 at 03:02 PM.
He comes from a very wealthy family, and his father was one of the greatest filmmakers in history, so his personal fortune is not too dependant on the perfume biz.Originally Posted by The_Giraffe
I think now would be a good time to bury this thread before it gets too heated. Whaddya reckon?
I don't want to get into the "what were they thinking" cause i just don't care about this in particular...we'll never know what happened or who said what or if it was all true or if it was misinterpreted-or not.
anyways, 2 of our maids wore perfumes: one wore nina ricci's eau de fleurs and the other anaïs anaïs so it wasn't bad at all. They were nice to me and i miss them!.
Very interesting his reaction. But I doubt you'd have gotten that reaction from say Artisan.Originally Posted by Indie_Guy
Right now I would like a sexy Albanian maid who looks great naked by drinking rare Okinawan tea to spray me with some Vetiver Extraoirdinaire.
But, as Renato has mercifully brought us back from the moral liniguistic debate to our true obsession, what I'd REALLY like to know is: Would Indie Guy have gotten the same reaction if he had worn Creed's 1948 instead of the 'Original' Version ? Which one do you guys think is bettter? I've never smelled either but the '48 always sounded more intriguing.
Curious minds want to know.
I would like to clarify M. Malle's statement to me. His implication upon further questioning when I interviewed him was to differentiate the differences between mass lower-priced fragrances worn by the masses and exclusivity with higher-priced prestige fragrances amongst affluent fragrance consumers who want something unique. His comments came from friends and inspired the concept for his company.
Mr. Malle was very generous with his thoughts and time and his concept is truly unique.
I hope this satisfies all your queries!
Lets not forget that Maids in general help themselves on nice things on dressing tables - here we go and it is free !!!!
I am sure Catherine Deneuve's maid smell good and expensive - it is all proportional isnt it !!!
If it is Mrs Smith that wears Avon scent her little weekly helper might smell Avon too.......................
No golden rules I think
Madonna's maid has got the choice !!!!!!!!
*LOL*Originally Posted by DrBubba
Originally Posted by Sillage6
And there we have it.
He didn't want his friends to wear Canoe!
When my maid comes in I often ask her to pick what she wants to spray for the day, if she's not wearing anything yet. So I smell like my maid. Or does she smell like me? Anyway, hope she's not secretly offended...
Confucius: "The first order of business is the rectification of names."
I want to smell like a fragrance.
Last edited by JaimeB; 19th January 2008 at 05:08 AM.
Yr good bud,
"Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"
Fiat justitia ruat cælum.
Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.
— Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus
Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.
Male irato ferrum committitur.
It is an evil thing to arm an angry man.
What kind of maid are we talking here?
A slutty Britney Spears Fantasy-wearing maid?
A dirty unwashed Kingdom-wearing maid?
A Shalimar-wearing old maid?
Or a classy J'Adore wearing maid?
When I get a maid, I will make sure she smells amazing. And every woman who comes into my house will say, "Oh, I want to smell as good as your maid!"
So yeah, I definitely don't want to hang out with Frederic Malle's friends' smelly maids. I only associate with good smelling maids, thank you very much!
I'm not offended by the comment, but I would be deeply embarrassed if I had ever let myself say that.
How elitist indeed!
Is that what wearing upper-crust fragrance is all about? Smelling bourgeois?
Forget smell; I would rather be a maid than an aristocrat-- even if it means never being able to buy a Guerlain again. What a pig this man is!
Mind you, someone who is really crazy for perfume can easily save enough money for something expensive. The priciest fragrances-- excluding special editions and the like-- are usually below $300. It's a hell of a lot of money, but it's not so much that someone who truly wants it (even a maid) can't afford it after a while of careful saving.
The second time i tried Musc RAvageur I thought to myself...
"this smells like sweaty mexican construction worker".
Oh that is sooo racist and elitist... nah, not realy. I am cool with it
AS TIME GOES BY.....so many posters who are not here any more !
on topic:Tough luck when you sell the same to him and her!
I would expect Nicolas Sarkozy and wife to belong to his friends also. French lovers normally don't talk about certain things, though...
Last edited by narcus; 24th September 2008 at 06:43 AM.
'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.
Last edited by mrclmind; 24th September 2008 at 06:43 AM.
A good discussion about male fragrance.
Sale/sample thread. http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=218207
I am my own chauffeur and I am my own maid and doggone if I don't smell exactly like them--and that smell is pretty nice since I found Basenotes.
Not wanting to smell like someone who you consider to be beneath your station in life is carrying the illusion of entitlement a bit too seriously I think.
These things cannot be long hidden: the Sun, the Moon, the Truth--Buddha
What a heated debate FM's comment has sparked! Just to put my two scents in...We had a maid growing up in the Philippines. She was the one who helped my mom take care of me when I was little. I remember after taking a bath, we would splash on this "baby cologne", she called it. So we both smelled like the same thing. This "baby cologne" is a comfort scent to me...I'm still searching for it to this day!!! So I actually wouldn't mind smelling like my maid, b/c I have before.
As for Monsiour Malle's comment...wouldn't his friends own some of his fragrances? And if maids sometimes borrow their employers' fragrances from time to time, wouldn't their maids smell like FM frags at one point or another? Possibilities, possibilities...:-P
You go, kbe! Love your response.
---> just wishes she had a maid. Scent is optional.
I remember a line from a book, in which the character (snottily) remarked that all the shop girls were wearing Chanel #5. If it was supposed to make #5 appear common or overworn, I suppose it might.
Our society is a little more open, and (at least in the US) class lines are somewhat blurred.
Besides, I imagine ladies who actually have maids (envious sigh) probably give them colognes that they are bored with, and thus a maid might very well end up wearing something that one of Mr. Malle's friends also possess.
It seems rather petty and insecure to stop wearing a fragrance just because you discover that someone you percieve as being beneath your "station" is wearing it.
I think I'll spritz on some Chanel #5 and finish cleaning the kitchen.