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  1. #1
    Scentronic's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    And wasn't impressed at all! I'm not the type of person that will go trash-talk a scent because it doesn't suit my personal tastes, but I guess I just had high hopes for both of these, seeing that they are hardcore favorites of many Basenotes members. I suppose this post is quite pointless, but I just don't understand the allure of these two fragrance powerhouses. They seemed well-put-together, but couldn't have appealed to me less. I'm 25; maybe they're just not my "era".

    And for the record.....I agree, Kouros has a urine-like sourness to it that I'd never want to smell of! No offense to the fans!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Rive Gauche is a powerhouse?

    I didn't think much of Kouros when I first tried it. I only warmed to it when I wore it one summer.

    Let's see. So far we have "smells like urine", "smells not like urine, but the disinfectant cakes they have in urinals", that the latter noses are olfactorily challenged as neither of the two opposite smells are present, and now your contribution of "urine-like sourness", which you will note does not actually accord with either the first two views.

    I think Kouros could probably be described as being more niche-like than most niche scents.
    Renato
    Last edited by Renato; 3rd August 2006 at 04:56 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    It took me one or two wearings to 'understand' Rive Gauche. It's a perfect casual scent.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato

    I didn't think much of Kouros when I first tried it.
    It was a different case with me : when I first smelled it, I thought instantly some wild animals and their ****. I remember second time still made me recoil (I thought the top note were totally horrendeus), but now that I have worn this many times, I absolutely love it. It`s amazing.

    Every single scent deserves at least a second chance.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    I don't mind the sillage that comes off of Kouros, but when I sniff the sprayed spot directly, it's very harsh and unwelcoming. Maybe if it were diffused over a larger area.....hmmm

  6. #6

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW
    I don't mind the sillage that comes off of Kouros, but when I sniff the sprayed spot directly, it's very harsh and unwelcoming. Maybe if it were diffused over a larger area.....hmmm
    Yes, much like Kouros, this really, really, really works well with a large diffusion zone.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectfeet
    And wasn't impressed at all! I'm not the type of person that will go trash-talk a scent because it doesn't suit my personal tastes, but I guess I just had high hopes for both of these, seeing that they are hardcore favorites of many Basenotes members. I suppose this post is quite pointless, but I just don't understand the allure of these two fragrance powerhouses. They seemed well-put-together, but couldn't have appealed to me less. I'm 25; maybe they're just not my "era".

    And for the record.....I agree, Kouros has a urine-like sourness to it that I'd never want to smell of! No offense to the fans!
    Duck for cover, mate! They'll tear you apart!
    The pursuit of philosophy is the hope that there is more to life than we realize. By philosophy, however, we come to realize that in fact there is less to life than previously imagined.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae
    Yes, much like Kouros, this really, really, really works well with a large diffusion zone.
    haha, the only problem is that the spray will go everywhere, and particles of juice will probably get sucked into my carpeted floor. My room has traces of many past SotDs

  9. #9

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    I think Kouros could probably be described as being more niche-like than most niche scents.
    Renato
    LOL! What do you mean?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectfeet
    And wasn't impressed at all! I'm not the type of person that will go trash-talk a scent because it doesn't suit my personal tastes, but I guess I just had high hopes for both of these, seeing that they are hardcore favorites of many Basenotes members. I suppose this post is quite pointless, but I just don't understand the allure of these two fragrance powerhouses. They seemed well-put-together, but couldn't have appealed to me less. I'm 25; maybe they're just not my "era".

    And for the record.....I agree, Kouros has a urine-like sourness to it that I'd never want to smell of! No offense to the fans!
    I have a decant of Rive Gauche, and have tested Kouros at the counter once. I like them both!

    I think RG is, as mentioned, an excellent casual scent with a slight "older, respectable gent/barbershop" hint to it, and I have yet to get any form of "urine" smell from Kouros. All I get is "Yikes! That's some powerful man smell! And I LIKE IT!"

    I think simply because so many BNers are so ardent about them both, they both should be given not just a second chance, but several.

    QE

  11. #11

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    I don't (yet?) think much of Rive Gauche, it's really barbershoppy with a hint of basil or some other herb. Doesn't move me in any way.

    Kouros is a completely different story, and yes, it should be given several runs. Worked for me, and in my (rather small) wardrobe it's my favourite one.

    And then there are the different lighter reincarnations of Kouros to try, for those that get overpowered by the original.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    When I finally got to test Kouros the other week I got the strong impression that I was going camping and had a mixture of bug spray and urine on me. Disgusting!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    I wonder what kind of urine you guys have.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by fakepurseninja
    I wonder what kind of urine you guys have.
    Obviously the aromatic woody kind, with a hint of incense and patchouli. LOL!

  15. #15

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by milamber
    LOL! What do you mean?
    We discuss plenty of weird and controversial scents here - Voleur de Roses, Dilmun, Dzing, Black Cashmere etc. Controversial they may be, but none are as controversial and weird to so many as Kouros obviously is.

    I can't think of any other designer scent that such would apply to.
    Renato

  16. #16

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    We discuss plenty of weird and controversial scents here - Voleur de Roses, Dilmun, Dzing, Black Cashmere etc. Controversial they may be, but none are as controversial and weird to so many as Kouros obviously is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Renato

    I can't think of any other designer scent that such would apply to.
    Renato


    I agree!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    I think most people are reminded of the toilete when they first smell Kouros because it smells like toilete cleaning chemicals.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    I think European when I smell Kouros.
    I've tried to give it 3 tries and can't get past that top note.
    It smells like your a peeing on the counter.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by incedal
    I think most people are reminded of the toilete when they first smell Kouros because it smells like toilete cleaning chemicals.
    Except that so many are adamant that they are clearly not referring to the chemicals at all - which is why the rest of us shake our heads and wonder what is wrong with their noses (while they presumably shake their heads and wonder what is wrong with our noses).
    Renato

  20. #20

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    In response to the perennial fascination with the fabled Kouros "piss note" and the perplexity and fascination it continually seems to engender, I am reposting an earlier post (lost with the recent move) in which I tried to put the whole thing into some kind of perspective:

    Almost everytime there's a post on *Kouros*, the fabled "piss note" or "urinal cake note" is mentioned. I thought I'd weigh in on the conversation with how I understand the nature of this note.

    Suprisingly, what is not mentioned often at all is the strong and persistent animalic note that is woven into the entire drydown. It is present from the first spray and persists to the end of *Kouros's* dying breath.

    The "piss note" or "urinal cake note" comes from this animalic component. Any one of three notes, jasmine, amber, or musk might be responsible for such a note. More than likely, it is the musk. Jasmine and amber tend to have a high indole component and project the fecal notes in many fragrances. Certain musks--and civet also--have a fecal component but also have what can be termed a urea component to them, or, less delicately, a "piss note".

    My experience from observing various reactions from Basenoters to various civet and musk containing fragrances is that some people have a hightened sensitivity to "piss notes" and some a complete "blind spot". Sorry I'm mixing my metaphors.

    Animalic components in fragrances are high-powered ways of extending the diffusivity and longevity of fragrances and, it's undeniable, their attraction. When blended well, as they're are in *Kouros*--unless you happen to be one of those people who is hypersensitive to fecal or urea notes--they intensify and clarify certain notes and also carry many of them, giving them an extension into the drydown they would not otherwise have had. They also add extra body and palpability to the fragrance, a certain undeniable textured aromatic substantivity. Finally, it should be noted, they appeal, at a very deep level, to the primal recognition of bodily odors which--in our not so distant past--we used as the main means of identifying our fellow creatures, much like dogs do, and which were very closely tied to sexual attraction.

    Much of this explains, on one level, why there are such strong, diametrically opposed responses to *Kouros* and perhaps, also, why so many women tend to find it a very attractive fragrance on a man. Furthermore, since women's fragrances have, traditionally, tended to be about seduction, it should not surprise us that fecal and urea notes have featured prominently in such fragrances, predominantly through the urea component of civet and the indole component of jasmine and other white florals. On a very deep level, I suspect women get *Kouros* more than men do because of this experience with such ingredients. It's interesting to consider that of all the comments on the dreaded "piss notes" in *Kouros*, almost all of them have come from men. I recall that when the women on this board have weighed in on *Kouros* the "piss note" has not been an issue with them. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this point.) I used to wear *Kouros* a lot in the 1980s. As far as I can recall, *Kouros* always received nothing but praise from women. Men's reactions were ususally divided.

    One final note, just to show how idiosyncratic responses to fragrances can be: I have a hypersensitivity to civet and indole and they are almost always instant deal breakers when it comes to a fragrance. I love Gendarme V, but yet always in the background I can sense the articificial civet note lurking and this makes the fragrance essentially unwearable for me. I definitely perceive the animalic/fecal note in Kouros. I don't particularly like it until it softens and integrates the accord and with the other elements of the basenotes accord, but I do not pick up the "piss note" despite my sensitivity to such a note. Go figure. There's no doubt for a variety of reasons that Kouros will always produce a wide spectrum of responses. However, it's important to remember and be tolerant of the fact that not every one experiences a particular fragrance in the same way. We should always allow a bit of mystery for the olfactory experience and that's the way it is, somewhat mysterious, and that's the way I am sure it will always remain.

    Perfectfeet, I think you should give Rive Gauche Pour Homme a couple more tries. I have to admit that I didn't get it at first, but it grew on me to the point where now it's one of my staples.

    scentemental


    Last edited by scentemental; 3rd August 2006 at 05:24 PM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    I definitely perceive the animalic/fecal note in Kouros. I don't particularly like it until it softens and integrates the accord and with the other elements of the basenotes accord, but I do not pick up the "piss note" despite my sensitivity to such a note. Go figure.

    scentemental

    Maybe because it's not actually there?

    While I found your analysis fascinating, I have a problem with it - the typical chemical urinal cake does not have an animalic, fecal or urea odor about it, rather a harsh, sharp, disinfectant smell (which come to think about it, is how some people perceive Kouros).
    Renato

  22. #22

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Well, once such a urinal cake actually get's to do what it's good for, there would be such a urea note.


    But to me it still doesn't make sense that people get that from Kouros. Ah well whatever.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    Rive Gauche is a powerhouse?

    I didn't think much of Kouros when I first tried it. I only warmed to it when I wore it one summer.

    Let's see. So far we have "smells like urine", "smells not like urine, but the disinfectant cakes they have in urinals", that the latter noses are olfactorily challenged as neither of the two opposite smells are present, and now your contribution of "urine-like sourness", which you will note does not actually accord with either the first two views.

    I think Kouros could probably be described as being more niche-like than most niche scents.
    Renato
    You forgot, "Smells like a soiled locker-room towel that's been sitting out for 7 days".

  24. #24

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    Maybe because it's not actually there?

    While I found your analysis fascinating, I have a problem with it - the typical chemical urinal cake does not have an animalic, fecal or urea odor about it, rather a harsh, sharp, disinfectant smell (which come to think about it, is how some people perceive Kouros).
    Renato
    Not necessarily Renato.

    It's interesting that people describe it as a "chemical urinal cake note". But ask yourself, how is that note experience/perceived in the first place? It comes about when one pees on those urinal cakes. What you have is a mixture of highly aromatic ingredients in the urinal cake activated by pee--my apologies to the squeamish.

    I think the urea element is there if only because some people perceive it and because I actually think it really is there in the musk note in Kouros. I think the urinal cake note is resolved as such when, by some people, at one level, the urea note is perceived in tandem with the highly aromatic non-animalic elements of Kouros. Let's recall that Kouros is classified as a "aromatic fougère" and is a highly complex aromatic concoction, even leaving aside the animalic notes.

    For some people, the urine element is what is most salient, for others it's the aromatic elements of the fragrance that remind them of urinal cakes. In either case, it's hard to see how either could be perceived if there weren't a pee note in there somewhere in some kind of manner. At least, that's the way I explain it to myself.

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 3rd August 2006 at 06:29 PM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectfeet
    And wasn't impressed at all! I'm not the type of person that will go trash-talk a scent because it doesn't suit my personal tastes, but I guess I just had high hopes for both of these, seeing that they are hardcore favorites of many Basenotes members. I suppose this post is quite pointless, but I just don't understand the allure of these two fragrance powerhouses. They seemed well-put-together, but couldn't have appealed to me less. I'm 25; maybe they're just not my "era".

    And for the record.....I agree, Kouros has a urine-like sourness to it that I'd never want to smell of! No offense to the fans!
    I just sample RG for the first time too last weekend. Not a bad scent. Didn't blow out of the water but am still intrigued by it.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy
    You forgot, "Smells like a soiled locker-room towel that's been sitting out for 7 days".
    manicboy,

    That's just part of the bodily component of Kouros's scent profile. It's a complex one and, as I noted before, some people's noses with particular fragrances resolve things in different ways. My good friend MisterK, as he will tell you himself, can't smell civet at all. He's never going to get a fecal/urine animalic note in fragrances or, rather I what I should say, is he's going to definitely resolves that note in a different way than I am. Again, its shouldn't surprise us that we have such differing responses to fragrances and especially to such a complex multifaceted formulations as Kouros. If people only resolved the notes in Kouros as disgusting ones, then Kouros would never have made it as , and remained, YSL's best selling men's fragrance.

    I hope that towel you speak of isn't yours.

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 3rd August 2006 at 06:18 PM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    Not necessarily Renato.

    It's interesting that people describe it as a "chemical urinal cake note". But ask yourself, how is that note experience/perceived in the first place? It comes about when one pees on those urinal cakes. What you have is a mixture of highly aromatic ingredients in the urinal cake activated by pee--my apologies to the squeamish.

    scentemental
    I don't agree. Those cakes are at their most acrid when the cleaner throws them in and flushes. That smell continues to come about after the continual flushing of fresh water over them. And it's only bored children that make a habit of aiming for them.

    Upon further reflection, I recollect going to WCs without the urinal cakes, on hot days by the beach. Now those were real pee smells - aahhg.
    Renato
    Last edited by Renato; 3rd August 2006 at 06:56 PM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy
    You forgot, "Smells like a soiled locker-room towel that's been sitting out for 7 days".
    I stand corrected. Nonetheless, it's good to see someone else who's not in the pee camp.
    Renato

  29. #29

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    That's a good theory Scentemental, but I subscribe to a simpler one. The problem with your theory is that urinal cakes don't smell like piss, by design they are intended to cover the smell of piss. I've only smelled the Kouros Sport version, but from what I understand, it has similarities to the original and I can pick up a urinal cake note in Kouros sport, not a piss note. Urinal cakes would probably smell good to most noses if people didn't have such a strong mental connotation to it. Obviously the smell is going to remind people of piss. So Kouros sparks a memory of piss. The smell of hotdogs might spark a memory of baseball, but a hotdog doesn't smell like an actual baseball, rather hotdog is one of the smells that fill the air at a ball park. If you go into one of those crowded arm-to-arm piss-in-a-trough bathrooms at the ball park, urinal cakes are one of the smells that fill the air.

    **Update**
    I posted the above without realizing that there was a third page. The whole piss mixed with urinal cakes thing, reminds me of puke mixed with Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels does not smell the same after you watched a friend puke it up.
    Last edited by xirdneh69; 3rd August 2006 at 06:53 PM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO, NOT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Mic.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    I don't agree. Those cakes are at their most acrid when the cleaner throws them in and flushes. That smell continues to come about after the continual flushing of fresh water over them. And it's only bored children that make a habit of aiming for them.
    Renato


    Renato,

    You seem intent on denying there's any urea/urinal note in Kouros because to you and to some others urinal cakes remind you of a purely aromatic chemical note, which reminds you of Kouros. That's fine, but you missed the point of all my postings. The fact that you or others can't resolve the piss note in Kouros, doesn't necessarily mean the note isn't there. I am not suggesting this is a deficit in anyone's ability to smell things. I am suggesting that when people explain to themselves in language what something smells like, they will reach for a verbal equivalents that most clearly represent a complex sensory experience. Sometimes, actually always, that response is inevitably limited, because senses don't equal words, but let me reiterate my main point, some of us smell pee and register it clearly, others smell it and don't register it at all, and yet others smell it along with other smells and reach for verbal equivalents in which the actual smell or smells are not differentiated. There are many responses. That's my point.

    If you want to say the piss note is not there because some people experience Kouros as a urinal cake note minus any urea component, then that's fine, but what about those who say it doesn't smell like that at all, that it smells like pee. As you note yourself, you're perplexed at the diversity of opinion. Well, saying that the urea/piss note is not there is one way of resolving that diversity of opinion, but it doesn't make the piss note go away. And saying that there's no piss note because one doesn't smell/resolve it also doesn't make it go away either. I am trying to understand why there's a diversity of opinions, you know, the thing you initially expressed perplexity over.

    scentemental


    Last edited by scentemental; 3rd August 2006 at 09:02 PM.

  32. #32

    Cool Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    I don't agree. Those cakes are at their most acrid when the cleaner throws them in and flushes. That smell continues to come about after the continual flushing of fresh water over them. And it's only bored children that make a habit of aiming for them.
    a. common urinal cakes do not readily dissolve in water nor urine, but rather sublimate when exposed to air.

    2. interestingly, though urinal cakes are composed of the same material as mothballs, I’ve never heard anyone compare the smell of Kouros to that of mothballs
    Last edited by Adrian; 3rd August 2006 at 07:49 PM.
    "He was some kind of a man... What does it matter what you say about people?"

  33. #33

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    I have never seen a crowd more obsessed with urinal cakes !! *gasp*
    -

  34. #34

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    I have never seen a crowd more obsessed with urinal cakes !!
    LOL! One has to wonder what Freud would have to say about this.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  35. #35

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental


    I am trying to understand why there's a diversity of opinions.
    Well, because there are different people with different stories
    I bought Kouros in a neighbouring country, just before departing for home. On the road I didn't want to use it -kind of hot autumn day-, at home I didn't want to bother my wife with it, so the very first application was on monday morning, when I went by train to a business trip. In the wagon I sniffed my wrist and was really satisfied. Then fell asleep. I woke up feeling that something is wrong. I sniffed again and I didn't like it that much. It went on, after an hour went to the toilette and tried to wash it off, didn't succeed. My stomach began lifting, and would beat my head into the window how I could buy such a disgusting sh*t. What I didn't realize then was that I had by then very high fever and a kind of serious infection. Somehow I got to my destination, was laid on a table, doctor, injection, so on.
    It was in 1990. Since then for 15 years I didn't even look at any Kouros-product in the countless shops I visited. I knew that my hate came from that 'accident', but I couldn't help - Kouros was equivalent for me with being ill.
    Then, from curiosity, reading the piss/crystal-water-of heaven quarrels, I made up my mind: gave it a try. And was really surprised: nothing stomach-turning, really good, kind of refreshing scent, no track of piss -would mean it whatsoever-. Of course I didn't dare to put it on my wrist, first time just a paperstrip. I was happy that the past is gone, put the strip in my pocket.
    At home, after 2 hours, I felt urge to sniff it again. It blow me away, simply couldn't believe: the thing I felt was the same what I felt when I went to visit one of my really beloved old relative, who couldn't appropriately take care of herself - any of you with similar experiences might know what I mean.
    And now I have again two faces of Kouros. Who knows which one is the real, the true?
    Is it perhaps like we ourselves, with different faces from day to day?

  36. #36
    dirk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    concerning that "urinal-scent", what do you guys think of gaultier2? to me it smells exactly like a certain urinal deodorant they used a couple of years ago, or still do in public men's toilet! is there anyone who would like to smell of that...???

  37. #37

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by dirk
    concerning that "urinal-scent", what do you guys think of gaultier2? to me it smells exactly like a certain urinal deodorant they used a couple of years ago, or still do in public men's toilet! is there anyone who would like to smell of that...???
    I'll let you know in a few hours. It's only been out three days now in the states and I'm being remarkably slow about going and testing it. I don't have high expectations for it though.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by dirk
    concerning that "urinal-scent", what do you guys think of gaultier2? to me it smells exactly like a certain urinal deodorant they used a couple of years ago, or still do in public men's toilet! is there anyone who would like to smell of that...???

    Jigga? Definately don't get that from Gaultier 2, but that's for another discussion, as I'm dangerously close to derailing this one further.


    Now here's a thought; maybe the urinal cake makers purposedly scented the cakes similar to Kouros because they liked it so much. Could be, could be.
    The pursuit of philosophy is the hope that there is more to life than we realize. By philosophy, however, we come to realize that in fact there is less to life than previously imagined.

  39. #39
    dirk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by Informer
    Jigga? Definately don't get that from Gaultier 2, but that's for another discussion, as I'm dangerously close to derailing this one further.


    Now here's a thought; maybe the urinal cake makers purposedly scented the cakes similar to Kouros because they liked it so much. Could be, could be.
    uuhh, i think the cake-makers were first *lol*
    si doux, tout musc...

  40. #40

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    I have never seen a crowd more obsessed with urinal cakes !! *gasp*
    I could add that my ladyfriend asked me never to wear Blenheim's Bouquet around her ever again. The reason - the pine note reminded her too much of a locally sold toilet cleaner called Pine-O-Clean.
    Renato

  41. #41
    dirk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    I could add that my ladyfriend asked me never to wear Blenheim's Bouquet around her ever again. The reason - the pine note reminded her too much of a locally sold toilet cleaner called Pine-O-Clean.
    Renato
    really? my beloved blenheim bouquet!!! i'll try to get a bottle! Great - my toilet smelling like blenheim!
    si doux, tout musc...

  42. #42
    Scentronic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Yeah that whole urinal cake thing got out of hand! I suppose that maybe it has something to do with associations - smelling pee every time you (also) smell a urinal cake. On a hot day, I don't think I could ignore whatever note that is.

    I tested Kouros a few months back and actually liked it a bit, but then (in sucession) tried kouros sport, then sport d'ete, and really liked that one - (no pee). It had a bit of the things from kouros that I liked, and was a lot more fresh and clean and citrusy. If anyone has this available for trade, let me know!

  43. #43

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectfeet
    I tested Kouros a few months back and actually liked it a bit, but then (in sucession) tried kouros sport, then sport d'ete, and really liked that one - (no pee). It had a bit of the things from kouros that I liked, and was a lot more fresh and clean and citrusy. If anyone has this available for trade, let me know!
    My problem with Kouros Sport and Ete is that whenever I wear them, I keep feeling I've short changed myself - that it's not the real thing - like drinking light beer or diet Coke instead of the real thing.
    Renato

  44. #44

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by dirk
    really? my beloved blenheim bouquet!!! i'll try to get a bottle! Great - my toilet smelling like blenheim!
    Why not? I use a lemon one that reminds me of D&G Masculine.

    And in my cupboards I have Hovex Clothing protectors that smell just like Drakkar Noir.
    Renato

  45. #45

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    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    I bought Kouros, a couple of months ago, at Target. It was an impulse buy and I thought it would be a good classic for the collection. I was a bit put off by it when I first tried it. I still have'nt given it a full wearing out in public. I do agree with Renato on the urinal cake thing. I don't actually smell pee, but rather the "johnny-block" note everyone ascociates with piss, shit, public places for extruding excrement (restrooms), etc. The times that I tested it (alot)....I began to pick out other notes, other than the antiseptic/urine notes, which seem to only appear upon application. After it dries a bit, it has the "soapy-ness" that Paco Rabanne has, but with a more animalic, musky, smokey note to it. I do love musk, but the musk in Kouros is somewhat...."different" and raw. It isn't terrible, it just seems that it would work more for cold weather, rather than the hot (really HOT!) weather we're having now. I don't think it will replace my Opium ph edp (my only other Yves scent....) but, I'm willing to give it a go when the weather cools off.
    Has far as it being a "chick magnet", that may be the reason why so many guys hate it, because it's aimed at reeling in the babes. It may not smell good to you, but it may smell like heaven to the chicks. That's what it's about, ain't it? I like to wear fragrances for "me"...I like to smell whatever fragrence I'm wearing. It's said that it you don't smell your cologne on your skin....then it's right for you. No....I like smell the the frag that I wear. I'm going to give Kouros a chance this fall. Who knows...it might become a favorite of mine.


    S

  46. #46

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Kouros contains a middle not of pure Oakmoss .. this is what smells like urinal cakes/urine/rotting earth to most people.

    Oakmoss was most recently used as a middle note in Creeds Feuille Verte...it has hints of "rotting earth" there too, but its cleverly subdued by the bulgarian rose and vanilla, while in the case of Kouros its not.
    -

  47. #47

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    I remember when I went testing fragrances with a friend of mine. After a while of having her tell me I was smelling 'girly' stuff(although it was mostly in the men's section) I told her "Here, smell this". She recoiled!

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    Kouros contains a middle not of pure Oakmoss .. this is what smells like urinal cakes/urine/rotting earth to most people.

    Oakmoss was most recently used as a middle note in Creeds Feuille Verte...it has hints of "rotting earth" there too, but its cleverly subdued by the bulgarian rose and vanilla, while in the case of Kouros its not.
    no, zztopp, i can not agree oakmoss absolutes and/or resins are clearly not responsible for that! it rather is the oakmoss-smelling material evernyl! e.g. this pee-tone also exists in elite by floris, here also due to the use of evernyl as the sole oakmoss ingredient. due to the restrictions, that nearly prohibit the use of oakmoss in frags applied to the skin. but there are compounds containing that material which do not have tha problem at all. e.g. dior homme with a very beautiful smelling oakmoss aspect in the drydown, that reminds me of taking a relaxing bath in summer using natural sponges. exactly that smell it for me!
    si doux, tout musc...

  49. #49

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by stevolution
    It isn't terrible, it just seems that it would work more for cold weather, rather than the hot (really HOT!) weather we're having now. I don't think it will replace my Opium ph edp (my only other Yves scent....) but, I'm willing to give it a go when the weather cools off.

    S
    That was my initial first impression - and I was wrong. I don't like Kouros in cold weather - it's too cold. I haven't actually tried it in the hot weather you are currently experiencing, but I thought it worked extremely well in warm weather.
    I know it's counter intuitive, but I strongly suggest you give it a go when the weather cools down to just warm.
    Renato

  50. #50

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    Kouros contains a middle not of pure Oakmoss .. this is what smells like urinal cakes/urine/rotting earth to most people.

    Oakmoss was most recently used as a middle note in Creeds Feuille Verte...it has hints of "rotting earth" there too, but its cleverly subdued by the bulgarian rose and vanilla, while in the case of Kouros its not.
    Wow, I never realized it was this simple. Thanks zztopp you've put this perplexing dilemma to rest and you've proven once again that Creed really is better than everything else out there because Creed's are better blended. It's good to know that Creed "carefully subdues" the errant, wayward notes found in your more inferior designer scents. Must be the fact that Olivier Creed is the world's greatest living nose ( irony alert, irony alert ). Bad, bad Kouros with its stupid as opposed to Creed's clever blending of oakmoss. The solution is easy folks, give up all other fragrances and fill your cabinets with Creed and all your piss note problems will be solved. zztopp, I find it hilarious that you constantly feel compelled to denigrate a fragrance just to build up a Creed. I thought we were talking about Kouros and Rive Gauche Pour Homme.

    First off, oakmoss can't be used as a middle note, because what determines whether something is a middle note or a basenote note is not where you see that note listed on some pyramid on some website. It's a little more complex than that. Designations and actualities with regards to top notes, middle notes, and basenotes have to do with substantivity, how long a note actually lasts, it' rate of evaporation before all of its aromatic properties disappear. Oakmoss rates as one of the most substantive of basenotes and is a prime fixative, by definition it's a basenote. It's definitely not a middle note by any definition or actuality.

    Secondly, oakmoss is found in almost every fragrance even if its not listed in the notes. Check any package of any fragrance that conforms with recent EC labeling regulations and most of them will have
    Evernia prunastri listed. The problem with your facile analysis is that if is were a simple of case of Oakmoss smelling like piss, we would be hearing this complaint all over the place, and besides you missed the main point, many people don't get a piss note in Kouros so the one-to-one correspondence theory of Oakmoss equals piss note is a pretty lame one, made even lamer by the implied comparison that you don't get a piss note in Feuilles Verte because the oakmoss is better blended in the middle notes.

    I have some oakmoss absolute (fascinating stuff), and I can tell you that it's earthy, animalic, woody (in wet bark kind of way). It has a somewhat salty note that smells distantly of the sea, but in my experience at least, there is no prominent piss note. Now having said that, oakmoss is notoriously unstable, and when it goes off it becomes extraordinarily powdery, sharp, acrid, and a does smell somewhat like stale dried piss, but one problem with your one-to-one correspondence theory is that many many people smell the piss note from fresh bottles. I also don't recall anyone describing the piss note in the terms I just outlined above for oakmoss gone bad.

    Look, the oakmoss could have something to do with it, after all, the animalic component to Kouros is a very complex one and oakmoss does form part of that complex profile, but I really don't think it has anything to do with the fact that the oakmoss is really better blended in your Feuilles Verte and poorly blended in Kouros by implication.

    Perfectfeet, and anyone else for that matter, I think that Rive Gauche Pour Homme is one of those fragrances that requires spraying under one's clothes. Try spraying some on your chest and the lower parts of your neck that come in contact with your shirt and let it sit and develop for a couple of hours. You will--I can guarantee it--garner many compliments, and I think, in many instances, begin to appreciate that its genius lies in its slow developing sillage, which I think reaches maximum effectiveness about three hours after spraying. I have compared Rive Gauche Pour Homme before to a
    black, open-neck shirt. Every man looks good in a black open-neck shirt. While the black shirt might not seem anything particularly special hanging up in your wardrobe, have a shower, put it one, along with some Rive Gauche Pour Homme in the manner I suggest, go out and let your body heat activate it many hours after you have initially applied it, and you will develop a new found appreciation of the genius of this fragrance, and like the black shirt you will feel confident that you are wearing something that is, by definition, a classic.

    scentemental


  51. #51

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    There was a discussion here recently about "is BDP "The King"?"

    I love BDP, but I change my mind. BDP is no longer the King. Neither is Rive Gauche. Or even Kouros.

    My vote goes to the towering genius of scentimental.

  52. #52

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    Perfectfeet, and anyone else for that matter, I think that Rive Gauche Pour Homme is one of those fragrances that requires spraying under one's clothes. Try spraying some on your chest and the lower parts of your neck that come in contact with your shirt and let it sit and develop for a couple of hours. You will--I can guarantee it--garner many compliments, and I think, in many instances, begin to appreciate that its genius lies in its slow developing sillage, which I think reaches maximum effectiveness about three hours after spraying...

    scentemental

    The only way to wear it! Straight onto my arm it can actually smell funky, a little sour. Under the shirt (2 sprays was plenty for all day wear) it has a chance to blend with the skin and transfer onto the shirt where it can develop without skin chemistry issues and also last longer. It gets stronger as the day goes on but never seems overpowering.

  53. #53
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    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    Wow, I never realized it was this simple. Thanks zztopp you've put this perplexing dilemma to rest and you've proven once again that Creed really is better than everything else out there because Creed's are better blended. It's good to know that Creed "carefully subdues" the errant, wayward notes found in your more inferior designer scents. Must be the fact that Olivier Creed is the world's greatest living nose ( irony alert, irony alert ). Bad, bad Kouros with its stupid as opposed to Creed's clever blending of oakmoss. The solution is easy folks, give up all other fragrances and fill your cabinets with Creed and all your piss note problems will be solved. zztopp, I find it hilarious that you constantly feel compelled to denigrate a fragrance just to build up a Creed. I thought we were talking about Kouros and Rive Gauche Pour Homme.

    First off, oakmoss can't be used as a middle note, because what determines whether something is a middle note or a basenote note is not where you see that note listed on some pyramid on some website. It's a little more complex than that. Designations and actualities with regards to top notes, middle notes, and basenotes have to do with substantivity, how long a note actually lasts, it' rate of evaporation before all of its aromatic properties disappear. Oakmoss rates as one of the most substantive of basenotes and is a prime fixative, by definition it's a basenote. It's definitely not a middle note by any definition or actuality.

    Secondly, oakmoss is found in almost every fragrance even if its not listed in the notes. Check any package of any fragrance that conforms with recent EC labeling regulations and most of them will have
    Evernia prunastri listed. The problem with your facile analysis is that if is were a simple of case of Oakmoss smelling like piss, we would be hearing this complaint all over the place, and besides you missed the main point, many people don't get a piss note in Kouros so the one-to-one correspondence theory of Oakmoss equals piss note is a pretty lame one, made even lamer by the implied comparison that you don't get a piss note in Feuilles Verte because the oakmoss is better blended in the middle notes.

    I have some oakmoss absolute (fascinating stuff), and I can tell you that it's earthy, animalic, woody (in wet bark kind of way). It has a somewhat salty note that smells distantly of the sea, but in my experience at least, there is no prominent piss note. Now having said that, oakmoss is notoriously unstable, and when it goes off it becomes extraordinarily powdery, sharp, acrid, and a does smell somewhat like stale dried piss, but one problem with your one-to-one correspondence theory is that many many people smell the piss note from fresh bottles. I also don't recall anyone describing the piss note in the terms I just outlined above for oakmoss gone bad.

    Look, the oakmoss could have something to do with it, after all, the animalic component to Kouros is a very complex one and oakmoss does form part of that complex profile, but I really don't think it has anything to do with the fact that the oakmoss is really better blended in your Feuilles Verte and poorly blended in Kouros by implication.

    Perfectfeet, and anyone else for that matter, I think that Rive Gauche Pour Homme is one of those fragrances that requires spraying under one's clothes. Try spraying some on your chest and the lower parts of your neck that come in contact with your shirt and let it sit and develop for a couple of hours. You will--I can guarantee it--garner many compliments, and I think, in many instances, begin to appreciate that its genius lies in its slow developing sillage, which I think reaches maximum effectiveness about three hours after spraying. I have compared Rive Gauche Pour Homme before to a
    black, open-neck shirt. Every man looks good in a black open-neck shirt. While the black shirt might not seem anything particularly special hanging up in your wardrobe, have a shower, put it one, along with some Rive Gauche Pour Homme in the manner I suggest, go out and let your body heat activate it many hours after you have initially applied it, and you will develop a new found appreciation of the genius of this fragrance, and like the black shirt you will feel confident that you are wearing something that is, by definition, a classic.

    scentemental

    who made, sold the absolute of oakmoss, you own? until now i've encountered perhaps 20-20 different natural oakmoss products. only lower or "cut" products had actually those stale piss, acrid sour aspect you're refering to. second: oakmoss absolute act inn de middle note as well as in de base note of a perfume!
    si doux, tout musc...

  54. #54

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Maybe the moss was peed on by a dog.

  55. #55

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Ok,I love Kouros and in where I live, we don't use pink urinal cakes in public bathrooms,most bathrooms at the mall use atomizers,so how would people who had never smelled pink urinal cake connect the smell of Kouros with piss and pink urinal cakes?
    Top faves: Aramis Devin,Balenciage PH,Zino Davidoff,Trussardi Uomo,BlackXS,Sybaris,Furyo,HoHangClub,Santos Sport,KriziaSpazio,CarverVetiverDry,GIT,AmberSulta n,TeaForTwo,Dzing.
    My drobe: www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/47

  56. #56
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    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by steveharrisonmc
    Maybe the moss was peed on by a dog.
    *lol* didn't thought about it
    si doux, tout musc...

  57. #57

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Well, to complicate things a bit further, I have to say that Kouros has never struck me as animalic - and plenty of scents do - so it's not an overall blindness to animalic smells (though it could be an olfactory blindness to whatever animalic ingredient is in Kouros).

    To make an apt Creed comparison, Creed's Orange Spice, which many have likened to Kouros (even though, since OS is 30 years older, the likening should go the other way), smells much more animalic to my nose. They share the much-maligned disinfectant-like note, but this chemical note seems to be less prominent in OS than it is in Kouros. In Kouros, it dominates the scent the whole time. OS also has a very deep, dark musk note that continually becomes more prominent until it smells almost fecal at the very end. I just don't get anything like that from Kouros. I still think there is some ingredient(s) in Kouros that reacts very differently with different chemistries - more so than is the norm. So, if there is something "compelling" about Kouros, but it just doesn't do it for you, check out OS.

    I will also note that in my informal polling of SAs and random women, not one has ever said Kouros was musky or stinky or funky or smelled of urine. To a person - every single one of them - they have all said it smells "fresh" or "clean" or "just showered" or "powdery"...some liked it, some didn't, some thought it was just okay but too ordinary. Those results actually kind of surprised me. These little polls were done both on paper and on me, and the results always the same, so skin chemistry doesn't come into play.

    It led me to think that maybe the males more commonly perceive something animalic in Kouros that the females do not. Is this seeming ability of men to more commonly smell the animal notes possibly a remnant of our hunter-gatherer past? Who knows. The sample sizes are too small, and this is just one frag, but it's an interesting thought. I'd like to see a real researcher in an academic setting take this on.

    Just some wild speculation from an informal researcher...

  58. #58

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    zztopp, I find it hilarious that you constantly feel compelled to denigrate a fragrance just to build up a Creed. I thought we were talking about Kouros and Rive Gauche Pour Homme.


    ...made even lamer by the implied comparison that you don't get a piss note in Feuilles Verte because the oakmoss is better blended in the middle notes.

    scentemental

    [/SIZE]
    Scentemental, two points to consider:

    1) Where exactly did I personally denigrate Kouros? My comment states that "some people" notice that piss-note. I never said I did.

    2) I never said I didnt get a "piss note" in F Verte. To me, both kouros and F verte have a certain earthy note, which is far more pronounced in kouros.

    So forgive me if I dont have a 500 book library on the art of perfume making like you, and try to draw some conclusions on my own based on my observations and testing experiences.
    Last edited by zztopp; 4th August 2006 at 04:45 PM.
    -

  59. #59

    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    Quote Originally Posted by abimanyu
    Ok,I love Kouros and in where I live, we don't use pink urinal cakes in public bathrooms,most bathrooms at the mall use atomizers,so how would people who had never smelled pink urinal cake connect the smell of Kouros with piss and pink urinal cakes?
    The thought just occurred to me: maybe YSL should make the bottle the shape of the atomizers found in public bathrooms. Makes sense.

  60. #60
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    Default Re: Tried Rive Gauche and Kouros today...

    but, franchement, couldn't a piss-note be sexy sometimes? e.g. wasnt it just that piss-note in chanel' no.5, original formula that made it a sexy frag???
    si doux, tout musc...

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