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  1. #1
    DustB's Avatar
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    Default Overrating scents

    (Will someone help me with punctuation? Am I right to hyphenate over-rating or is it one word?)

    Members of this board have scents they love. Those members are happy to tell other members about those scents, and about their love of them--we wouldn't have a board if this weren't true! Many members share the same love of the same scents, so they agree. Members also have loves of different scents from other members, obviously.

    I think members posting threads, posts, and commentary in general should think over the use of the term "overrated." Maybe they can explain more about what they mean when they use it, as in X fragrance enjoys a lot of popularity here recently, but not with me!

    I know I don't overrate the scents I love, because I love them.

    Disclaimer: (I hate writing what I'm NOT saying, since I like to write what I AM saying and have people evaluate what I AM rather than what I'm NOT saying. However I'm not saying don't use the term on the board, hell, I say express yourself. Be disrespectful if that's what you're about. But when you use the term overrate, you're in the same boat as someone else on the board--you've got scents you rate highly that others don't. What I AM saying is think it over.

    Thank you everyone for reading and thinking over this post.
    --Chris

    EDIT: Grammatical corrections made--"overrate," no hyphen.
    Last edited by DustB; 28th August 2006 at 06:09 AM.
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  2. #2
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    I agree that it would be better if the usage of the term "over-rated" is backed up by some comments. I think the term "over-rated" applies when a fragrance is rated positively by many, talked about a lot, or sells a lot (or all three).

    For example, I like GIT, and it is a big niche seller, but some people think its over-rated for one reason or the other. However, a fragrance like Chevrefeuille Original cannot be classified as over-rated since its not that talked about, or a big seller, or that positively rated.

    Thats my understanding of it.
    -

  3. #3

    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    I don't know ... I think we think about these things too much sometimes. I can't even count the amount of times frags I love have been called "overrated". Deep down, I'll feel a little let down but I can't really say I get very insulted. If that were the case, I would've left this board a long time ago.

    However, I'll watch the use of "overrated" ... but I think this is being blown out of porportion.

  4. #4
    Serpent
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    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    There is no hyphen in "overrated."

  5. #5
    DustB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpent
    There is no hyphen in "overrated."
    Thank you very much, Serpent.
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Hm, instead of using the word overrated, perhaps using the phrase, "I just do not like this scent personally" or something along those lines. When you say a fragrance is overrated, you are making a generalization that the scent isn't really that good as some people believe. In doing this you are doing so in a way that implies to other members that the scent is just not a good one and there must be something wrong with them if they do like said scent.

    Is it a big deal? Of course not. However it could make everything smoother in the long run and there would be less arguements on the board, and I think that's what we all want.

    -Ben

  7. #7

    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    I think the term "over-rated" applies when a fragrance is rated positively by many, talked about a lot, or sells a lot (or all three).
    Just because many people rate a fragrance positively it becomes "overrated"? I call that "popular". "Overrated" is when i impose my tastes and preferences over those of others as being the right one.

  8. #8
    Serpent
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    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Seriously, it's one step from this to, "Well, posters should really watch it with negative comments about fragrances. After all, you might not like a certain fragrance, but someone else does, and so you could hurt someone's feelings by writing something bad about a scent. Like your mother always told you: If you can't say something nice about a fragrance, don't say anything at all!"

    And just for the record: Green Irish Tweed is totally overrated.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpent
    Seriously, it's one step from this to, "Well, posters should really watch it with negative comments about fragrances. After all, you might not like a certain fragrance, but someone else does, and so you could hurt someone's feelings by writing something bad about a scent. Like your mother always told you: If you can't say something nice about a fragrance, don't say anything at all!"

    And just for the record: Green Irish Tweed is totally overrated.

    If thats the case I don't think we would see much of you Serpent!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpent
    Seriously, it's one step from this to, "Well, posters should really watch it with negative comments about fragrances. After all, you might not like a certain fragrance, but someone else does, and so you could hurt someone's feelings by writing something bad about a scent. Like your mother always told you: If you can't say something nice about a fragrance, don't say anything at all!"

    And just for the record: Green Irish Tweed is totally overrated.
    No way Serpent!
    I love reading your rants and the reason i like it so much is because it is entertaining to me and doesn't make me feel like you've just put my own tastes/preferences down. You can keep on writing as many negative reviews you like, i'll keep reading them, even when they're about Laguna!
    You've not written about Laguna yet i think and when you do, we can have a nice discussion about it.

  11. #11
    Serpent
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    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritussancti
    If thats the case I don't think we would see much of you Serpent!
    Ain't that the damn truth. I definitely won't have a seat at this pretty little tea party...

  12. #12

    CologneJunkie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    I totally see what you're saying, & I agree. It's one thing to not like a particular fragrance, but it's another say it's "overrated" (or something similar). It makes it sound like an insult to anyone who likes the scent. I try to be considerate.
    "Wait...is David Bowie really God?" - Penelope Garcia

  13. #13
    Serpent
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    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by milamber
    You've not written about Laguna yet i think and when you do, we can have a nice discussion about it.
    Well, I've not gotten my hands on Laguna Homme. It's not an easy one to get one's hands on to sample.

    And not all of my reviews are negative. I seem to have a reputation as he who loves to rip up a scent, but I love nothing more than finding a quality, original fragrance. Unfortunately, there just don't seem to be many of those around these days...
    Last edited by Serpent; 28th August 2006 at 05:21 AM.

  14. #14
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpent
    Seriously, it's one step from this to, "Well, posters should really watch it with negative comments about fragrances. After all, you might not like a certain fragrance, but someone else does, and so you could hurt someone's feelings by writing something bad about a scent. Like your mother always told you: If you can't say something nice about a fragrance, don't say anything at all!"

    And just for the record: Green Irish Tweed is totally overrated.

    LOL, and HEY! @ the GIT comment

    Look guys, I used the term overrated (and unwearable) to describe Tea For Two. Someone took it to mean that I was implying that I know better, and that the people who like and wear it are morons. Far from it. The interesting thing is that when Kouros (a personal favorite of mine and a true classic) was being dissed as a urinal cake by many of the members, didnt that indicate that those members were implying that the millions of people around the world who wear and enjoy Kouros don't know better? Infact, that allusion to "urinal-cakes" is far more insulting than calling the current darling Tea for Two as "overrated".

    For sure, people will agree/disagree on fragrances, and we cant expect each and every member to put down their thoughts on this forum so as to be sure not to "offend" each and every member (5000 and counting...right?). Ofcourse, some comments can be clearly regarded as offensive (cuss words, personal attacks, etc) - but there are also some subtle boundaries, and things arent clear. Also, there are some members here whose first language isnt english.

    As I said, the only true way to judge a fragrances quality is to have a recognised third party which is held in high regard by the people who "love" and "dont love" the fragrances. A recognized nose, or a FiFi foundation award. Even then, your personal opinion will trump their recognition or comments.

    So lets enjoy the discussion and the fragrances...and avoid using the word "overrated"!
    Last edited by zztopp; 28th August 2006 at 05:21 AM.
    -

  15. #15
    Serpent
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    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    There are certain scents that get caught up in a wave of hype here. We all know it. Scents like Green Irish Tweed, Millésime Impériale, Piper Nigrum, Stardust for Men, Terre d'Hermčs, even some lower-priced ones like Rive Gauche pour Homme and Bulgari Black - the notorious Golden Calves. They're those scents that just consume the board for weeks and weeks. The fragrances are omnipresent. Everyone's posting and posting and posting on them. Everyone's buying a bottle, no matter the ridiculous price. Lately, M7 Fresh has been the latest most likely Golden Calf candidate. A whiff of exclusivity, a group of positive reviews coming in, and suddenly a snowball of hype builds.

    "Overrated" does not, in my usage, mean that a scent is not necessarily good. It means that it has a rush of hype behind it that the scent does not live up to. Is this a valid assessment to make? Yes. I feel it is. It's not a term I use lightly, but, when I use it, there is weight and purpose behind it.

  16. #16

    tigrushka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by milamber
    Just because many people rate a fragrance positively it becomes "overrated"? I call that "popular". "Overrated" is when i impose my tastes and preferences over those of others as being the right one.
    That's the difference exactly and also the reason why I find it hard to take seriously the posts/threads overdosing the term "overrated". It's basically just another way of saying "I think _ _ (insert the name of any scent here) is crap and anyone who doesn't share my view is an idiot and/or lacks taste".
    "Wovon man nicht lesen kann, darüber muss man schreiben."

  17. #17

    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpent
    "Overrated" does not, in my usage, mean that a scent is not necessarily good. It means that it has a rush of hype behind it that the scent does not live up to. Is this a valid assessment to make? Yes. I feel it is. It's not a term I use lightly, but, when I use it, there is weight and purpose behind it.
    All those scents that are "hyped" have good valid reasons to be "hyped" in that many people genuinely belief them to be great scents, so in my opinion, they are not "overrated" because many basenoters truly like them. And when another basenoter says they don't like it and goes against the grain, i expect that as a matter of course. People are not all similar. But if that person calls it "overrated" then he/she is making a statement against the justification for the fragrance's popularity which in this case would be the taste/perceptions of all those basenoters who support the fragrance to begin with, people who do rate the fragrance.

  18. #18
    Serpent
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    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by milamber
    All those scents that are "hyped" have good valid reasons to be "hyped" in that many people genuinely belief them to be great scents, so in my opinion, they are not "overrated" because many basenoters truly like them.
    Is this always so? I would disagree. Most of the scents that get a big momentum of hype here are more than - or other than - good-smelling fragrances. They are fragrances that are also relatively hard-to-find, expensive, and have a some sort of famous perfumer attached. No one ever seems to be attaching the "overrated" label to anything one can find at Macy's, for example. The fact that things are hard-to-get and pricey is a tremendous enticement for many people.

    But this is something that is often overlooked here. Basenoters as a group love to dote on the expensive and rare scents, and many times these scents' only main virtues are that they are expensive and rare. (That would make them, well, "overrated.") And the one thing they hate is having this pointed out to them. That ol' emperor just hates to find out he's nekkid...

  19. #19

    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Thanks Chris for attempting to clear the air here.

    Quote Originally Posted by milamber
    All those scents that are "hyped" have good valid reasons to be "hyped" in that many people genuinely belief them to be great scents, so in my opinion, they are not "overrated" because many basenoters truly like them. And when another basenoter says they don't like it and goes against the grain, i expect that as a matter of course. People are not all similar. But if that person calls it "overrated" then he/she is making a statement against the justification for the fragrance's popularity which in this case would be the taste/perceptions of all those basenoters who support the fragrance to begin with, people who do rate the fragrance.
    I think we're starting to split hairs. I don't see the difference between saying something like, "despite popular opinion, I don't like X" and saying "X is overrated." They are both saying essentially the same thing: I know this is popular, well-thought-of, highly rated, and so forth, but I think it's not as great as everyone is saying (I may even think it's crap). I see both as subjective statements. Of course, I rarely take anyone seriously who tries to speak "objectively."

    As far as popular opinion being a valid reason for hype, isn't that kind of circular, as in: a lot of people say they like it, therefore that means a lot of people like it. For me hype is about more than people just liking something. Hype is about something being liked because of popular opinion, aka group-think, which is a pretty well documented sociological phenomenon. I think when someone uses the term overrated, they are implying that some form of group-think or mass frenzy is occurring. That's a valid criticism, and probably does occur with many frags. There's always a darling of the moment that later no one cares about anymore. It falls upon those who like the frag to defend why they like it (or to just let it go). The important thing is the tone of the comments. A sarcastic or dismissive tone (both of which I frequently see on these boards) stifles the conversation and insults the participants. But such a tone just shows the juvenile nature of the one who posted it.

    In the end, I think the real solution is for folks to not get personally offended when someone says that something is overrated, or in fact, when someone says that they just don't like a scent. It happens in both cases. I've seen folks freak just because someone criticized a scent, as a scent, without resorting to ad hominem attacks of any kind (even implied ones). Maybe a little thicker skin is needed around here. And even when someone does post something that is dismissive or sarcastic or flat-out rude, those on the other end should be the bigger people and respond with facts and opinion, rather than become defensive and escalate the ad hominem attacks. (I'm not speaking as a guru here - I'm sure I've been guilty of becoming defensive myself.)

    BTW, I like T42 quite a bit, it's one of my favorite L'Artisans...but I took no offense at ZZ's statement, even though I noted a bit of sarcasm and bite to it. I took no offense, because I like T42 and will continue to like it regardless of what ZZ says about it. I also don't expect him to like it just because I do, or because some large number of people do. Though I think his post would have been more effective in engendering genuine conversation had it not come across as sarcastic.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpent
    Most of the scents that get a big momentum of hype here are more than - or other than - good-smelling fragrances. They are fragrances that are also relatively hard-to-find, expensive, and have a some sort of famous perfumer attached.
    Basenoters as a group love to dote on the expensive and rare scents, and many times these scents' only main virtues are that they are expensive and rare.
    Exactly! The word "overrated" reveals so much about what the user thinks of the people who love the frag doesn't it? They're gullible or have no mind of their own and thus led by a famous perfumer, or snobs or pretentious or have poor taste. There is no way of really, precisely knowing all that especially in a faceless community like the internet forums. So i prefer to assume that people have tried the frag and actually like it for what it is. At least i can be sure both you and i analyse the juice itself and not other factors.

  21. #21

    narcus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overrating scents

    As a lover of the famous/infamous Kouros I have gone through various phases with the daily discussions about it. I felt like a Basenotes victim, a marter at times. But the moment had to come when I recognized basic elements of group hysteria in the phenomenon, and now I have grown immune, I think. In my experience the term over- and underrated are about the most neutral words we can find. They mostly describe my disagreement with an anonymos, common verdict concerning any fragrance. The problem seems to be that some people read them to also include snobistic criticism of other peoples' taste etc., and thus feel offended. This implied meaning is news to me.

    'Overrated' is a term that I have never considered as hurtful. I do not remember having used the word myself much, but I certainly would, did I feel an urge writing about some (Mugler, Dior, whatever ...) fragrance which has no place in my world, but seems to be as popular as the proverbial Creeds here. I usually think, I do not understand certain scents when the whole world seems to love them, and I can't. Now 'underrated' is just the opposite term - using that does not seem to hurt anybody, does it?

    Rating is desirable I think. Rating and voting on fragrances are highly subjective matters. I must have appropriate words to express whether I like the result of a single rating or the bulk of them.

    What would be better words to replace 'over-' or 'underrated'?

    Last edited by narcus; 28th August 2006 at 07:53 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  22. #22
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overrating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus
    Now 'underrated' is just the opposite term - using that does not seem to hurt anybody, does it?
    A very good point. I feel MPG fragrances are "underrated"
    -

  23. #23

    Default Re: Over-rating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by robyogi
    I think we're starting to split hairs. I don't see the difference between saying something like, "despite popular opinion, I don't like X" and saying "X is overrated." They are both saying essentially the same thing...
    I think you've answered that with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by robyogi
    ... i noted a bit of sarcasm and bite to it.
    I would not feel any bite or sarcasm to "I don't like ______." or "despite popular opinion, i don't like X". In fact, the second statement sounds so much more respectful and i like it. Very gentlemanly in fact... Cool.

  24. #24
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overrating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus
    As a lover of the famous/infamous Kouros I have gone through various phases with the daily discussions about it. I felt like a Basenotes victim, a marter at times. But the moment had to come when I recognized basic elements of group hysteria in the phenomenon, and now I have grown immune, I think.
    Nicely written, and you soldiered on, my friend - and now you are stronger and better for it !
    -

  25. #25
    Renato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overrating scents

    I only ever give two reasons for a scent being overrated, based on the premise that this is a site for Male Fragrance, and that such a fragrance should perform better than some household air freshener.

    Thus my reasons are,
    a. Does not last long enough, and
    b. Is low or devoid of any of the typical masculine ingredients, or doesn't smell particularly masculine.

    I usually then get some argument that the scent in question lasts forever on them (fair enough comment, worthy of note) or that short lived scents are fine (not fair enough, in my opinion, on a bottle that clearly states EDT on it).

    Then I get the other response that there is no such a thing as masculine or feminine scents - a nugatory argument as far as I'm concerned - as 95 to 99% of the scent buying public do see it my way, as evidenced by the dollars they spend.
    Renato

  26. #26
    Serpent
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    Default Re: Overrating scents

    Let me just say this: Everyone should be able to separate a criticism of a fragrance from a personal criticism. When someone writes, "I don't like this scent" or "I think this is overrated" (Gasp!), no one should be taking it to mean, "I don't like people who wear or like this scent." Unfortunately, some people identify their fragrances quite closely with their identities, and they take fragrance reviews very personally. Perhaps saying a scent is overrated isn't the best way to critique a scent, but there are times it may be a valid criticism. More importantly, proposing such self-censorship is the first step down a dangerous path.

    My favorite fragrance is Kingdom, a scent that has had some of the meanest, nastiest things written about it, including by myself. Do those things faze me? Not in the least. When people are afraid to express their true opinions for fear of hurting other's feelings, that's going to lead to a really bland, uninteresting reading experience. "Come to Basenotes, the board where every fragrance is just peachy keen great!"

    Instead of worrying about hurting people's feelings with our fragrance opinions, maybe we should all just be adults. Our fragrances shouldn't make us who we are, and other people's opinions of them even less so.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Overrating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus
    As a lover of the famous/infamous Kouros I have gone through various phases with the daily discussions about it. I felt like a Basenotes victim, a marter at times.

    And for that i'm sorry because i don't detect the urinal cake/piss note in it at all and did nothing. I wanted to write something about that infamous note, but always i just put it off. Why is it the onus of the victim to always tolerate things? Why should the victim be the ones "getting stronger" due to their tolerance? While we continue to tolerate, things won't improve. Sorry it took this long.


    What would be better words to replace 'over-' or 'underrated'?

    Underrated - Hey guys, i've just discovered this new scent called X. It's great. Doesn't get much review so i'll give try my best to review it.........

    Overrated - You guys really love this stuff! I haven't wamed up to it yet but then again, i'm not partial to a sandalwood note above a vanillic accord.

  28. #28

    narcus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overrating scents

    There are enough self congratulatory fragrance sites already. I would regret if Basenotes got streamlined all too much. But nobody should abuse any thread to be aggressive and hurtful, of course not!

    Test: a) "Acqua di Gio is vastly overrated in general, I conclude that from sales statistics." "Armani Colognes are generally underrated within Basenotes. I take that from looking back at topics." - Would those be fair statements reflecting observations I made? Would that also say anything about the millions of buyers, and some hundred Basenoters ?

    All I mean to say is : 'I love AdG less than a majority of people', and ' Basenoters (seem to) appreciate Armani scents less than I do.' It does say more about myself than about others. I could not possibly state anything beyond known facts and myself, the only psyche I know well!

    If subject terms are commonly understood as hurtful, then I must do without them. But for concise comments we need a replacement, and hopefully that is another word, not a full sentence for reassurance of friendly intentions. That could be quite suffocating too.
    Last edited by narcus; 28th August 2006 at 01:04 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Overrating scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpent
    Unfortunately, some people identify their fragrances quite closely with their identities, and they take fragrance reviews very personally.
    Possibly, but that is another assumption too.
    Perhaps saying a scent is overrated isn't the best way to critique a scent, but there are times it may be a valid criticism.
    Agreed, when it is in reference to how media can skew the results of a survey for example. I have no problem with the way you use it as you qualify your words clearly.

    More importantly, proposing such self-censorship is the first step down a dangerous path.
    It's never been about censorship. If anything, it's been about writing more and being clear in expression whether it is negative or positive comments so that we don't "accidentally" hurt others with what we say. That's being an adult. Kids just say the first thing that come to their mind. They don't know any better. Adults do and they respect others. That's all.
    I've said my peace on this matter.
    Last edited by milamber; 28th August 2006 at 09:35 AM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Overrating scents

    I can take a beating for Mark Birley!

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