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  1. #1

    Default "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    At least in the thread several did, taunting me with answers like "in heaven" "ask his maids" (got that reply 2x), "just pony up and spend 230" etc . . .

    But, no harm in asking right? in fact, "Ask and ye shall receive", don't they say???

    For you see, a private message from a dear darling basenoter came turning me on to a bottle of Musc Ravageur on concession at a scent store for 121$ delivered!

    Take that Frederick Malle (who wouldn't send me samples after leading me on with the questionairre and responding (as they seem to to so many) "perhaps you could love bigardee concentree or angeliques sous la pluie" (which I suspect are merely the scents that don't do so well in the men's market)!!!

    Also, I found a MUCH nicer salesperson at Barney's than the one who LIED about there being no Malle samples. Maybe with the money I saved I'll pick up a bottle of Avignon from him, since it never seems to go for less than only pennies below retail on ebay....
    Last edited by supermarky; 8th September 2006 at 03:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Thrax
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    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Thats a good price for a Malle. But cheap, I think not.

  3. #3

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    You'll have to PM me to let me know who the SA is so I can seek him out!

    TNMA
    "Why not seize the pleasure at once?"
    -- Jane Austen (Sun, and Mercury in Sagittarius)

  4. #4

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Malle has been VERY generous with many members on this board. They sent me three 5ml samples last year. That's 15ml. Considering 50ml costs on average 85euros... That is very, very, very generous.
    Last edited by myaccolades; 8th September 2006 at 05:45 AM.

  5. #5
    Thrax
    Guest

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by myaccolades
    Malle has been VERY generous with many members on this board. They sent me three 5ml samples last year. That's 15ml. Considering 50ml costs on average 85euros... That is very, very, very generous.
    It would only be generous of them if 50ml actually COST 85 euros to MAKE. Truth is, I'm sure it takes just as much to make a Liz Claiborne scent as it does to make a Malle scent. The name on the bottle is what marks the price up. You gotta remember when you have a bottle of cologne all you have is glass, oil, alcohol, and water. Nothing expensive about that.

  6. #6

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrax
    It would only be generous of them if 50ml actually COST 85 euros to MAKE. Truth is, I'm sure it takes just as much to make a Liz Claiborne scent as it does to make a Malle scent. The name on the bottle is what marks the price up. You gotta remember when you have a bottle of cologne all you have is glass, oil, alcohol, and water. Nothing expensive about that.
    I disagree.

    When Claiborne wants a scent to smell of roses, they'll go with a mixture of citronellol, geraniol, nerol, linalool, phenyl ethyl alcohol, farnesol, stearoptene, α-pinene, -pinene, α-terpinene, limonene, p-cymene, camphene, -caryophyllene, neral, citronellyl acetate, geranyl acetate, neryl acetate, eugenol, methyl eugenol, rose oxide, α-damascenone, -damascenone, benzaldehyde, benzyl alcohol, rhodinyl acetate, phenyl ethyl formate... etc. It probably smells pretty damn close to roses (if they even bother to use all of those chemicals... you can get a pretty decent rose representation with just a few of those). When Malle wants roses, I'm sure he'll use a premium rose otto or rose absolute, which is much, much, much more expensive. Sure, he'll make a handy profit off of his stuff, but saying that Malle and Claiborne cost the same amount to make is highly unlikely.

  7. #7
    Thrax
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    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffman
    I disagree.

    When Claiborne wants a scent to smell of roses, they'll go with a mixture of citronellol, geraniol, nerol, linalool, phenyl ethyl alcohol, farnesol, stearoptene, α-pinene, -pinene, α-terpinene, limonene, p-cymene, camphene, -caryophyllene, neral, citronellyl acetate, geranyl acetate, neryl acetate, eugenol, methyl eugenol, rose oxide, α-damascenone, -damascenone, benzaldehyde, benzyl alcohol, rhodinyl acetate, phenyl ethyl formate... etc. It probably smells pretty damn close to roses (if they even bother to use all of those chemicals... you can get a pretty decent rose representation with just a few of those). When Malle wants roses, I'm sure he'll use a premium rose otto or rose absolute, which is much, much, much more expensive. Sure, he'll make a handy profit off of his stuff, but saying that Malle and Claiborne cost the same amount to make is highly unlikely.
    But you still cant say that it takes $230 to make a bottle of Malle. Even if they do use the good stuff. Creed is "supposed" to use all natural ingrediants and thier prices are half of that.

  8. #8

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    That wasn't my point. Of course Malle makes a killing off of those bottles, but he still has much more overhead than Claiborne. The ingredients cost more, the bottles probably cost *much* more (it's cheap to make millions of bottles, but expensive to make low batches of custom bottles, as plain-looking as they may be). Even though $230 is astronomic for a fragrance, I'd bet that he sells with a significantly lower percent markup than Claiborne.

  9. #9

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    generosity schmenerosity

  10. #10

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Of course Malle makes a proft, a good one Im sure.
    But to compare the quality of his stuff with mass market brands is ridiclous. I dont even like the majority of their catalog, but every single one Ive tried has smellt more "natural" and definitely more original compared to most of the stuff out there. In any case, more exclusive raw materials or not - although this too is a fact just by smelling most of them, theres just so much more effort put into the creation process - in it self warranting a higher price tag.


    MMM

  11. #11

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    And whats this 230$ example? Is it carnal flower?
    The 50 ml bottles usually retail for around 100$ dont they?

    M

  12. #12
    Thrax
    Guest

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffman
    That wasn't my point. Of course Malle makes a killing off of those bottles, but he still has much more overhead than Claiborne. The ingredients cost more, the bottles probably cost *much* more (it's cheap to make millions of bottles, but expensive to make low batches of custom bottles, as plain-looking as they may be). Even though $230 is astronomic for a fragrance, I'd bet that he sells with a significantly lower percent markup than Claiborne.
    I see we have both made our points though. We teamed up and attacked it from both sides.

  13. #13
    marcos_xs's Avatar
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    Cool Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrax
    But you still cant say that it takes $230 to make a bottle of Malle. Even if they do use the good stuff. Creed is "supposed" to use all natural ingrediants and thier prices are half of that.
    Well you put it right when u said supposed,I've got on a box of Himalaya some of their natural ingredients written on a label,let me write them down for you if I can..))
    )after alcohol,aqua(water) parfum is

    benzyl salicylate

    iso eugenol/

    cinnamal coumarin/

    linalool,citronellol

    limonene

    alpha isomethyl ionone

    butylphenyl methylpropional

    methyl 2-octynotate

    hydrosiisohexyl 3-cyclohexene carboxaldehyde

  14. #14

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Its a long time since "a level" chemistry. Are any of those ingredients actual fragrance ingredients or are they presevatives, skin demulcents etc?
    "Dont try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  15. #15

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    I would feel very confident saying that the ingredients used to make a Malle or any other frag. can be had for less than $5. Get over it.

  16. #16
    marcos_xs's Avatar
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    Cool Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder
    Its a long time since "a level" chemistry. Are any of those ingredients actual fragrance ingredients or are they presevatives, skin demulcents etc?
    The potential of benzyl salicylate, an important fragrance and flavour ingredient
    benzyl salicylate
    (organic chemistry) C14H12O3 A thick liquid with a slight, pleasant odor; used as a fixer in perfumery and in sunburn preparations.

    benzyl alcohol ether with isoeugenol benzyl isoeugenyl ether. Odor Description :, sweet fruity spicy carnation.

    Eugenol and isoeugenol, characteristic aromatic constituents of spices, are biosynthesized via reduction of a coniferyl alcohol ester

    Cinnamal Fragrance with restrictions on use/concentration fragrance with restrictions on use/concentration set by International Fragrance Association

    Linalool A colorless liquid with a woody, floral scent reminiscent of lavender and lily of the valley, linalool intoxicates the olfactory senses in a wide range of perfumery applications and fine cosmetics. It's even found in Fido's bedding, giving him the soothing odor he deserves.Linalool
    Fragrance (Parfum) from natural essential oils. Linalool is a naturally occurring component of essential oils, such as Lavender Oil, Bergamot Oil, Geranium Oil and Ylang-Ylang Oil.

    Citronellol, or dihydrogeraniol, is a natural acyclic monoterpenoid. Both enantiomers occur in nature. (+)-Citronellol, which is found citronella oils, is the more common isomer. (−)-Citronellol is found in the oils of rose and geranium. Citronellol is used in perfumes.
    Citronellol is a fragrant chemical that occurs naturally in many plant oils, and in certain fruits and beverages. As a pesticide active ingredient, citronellol is used on food crops and ornamentals to attract mites, a significant agricultural pest. Because citronellol is used in tiny amounts compared to background exposures and shows minimal to no toxicity in laboratory studies, no harm is expected to humans or the environment when users follow label instructions.

    Limonene is a hydrocarbon, classed as a terpene. It is a clear, colourless liquid at room temperatures with an extremely strong smell of oranges. It takes its name from the lemon, as the rind of the lemon, like other citrus fruits, contains considerable amounts of this chemical compound, which is responsible for much of their smell. Limonene is a chiral molecule, and as is common with such forms, biological sources produce one specific enantiomer: the principal industrial source, citrus fruit, contains d-limonene ((+)-limonene), which is the (R)-enantiomer (CAS number 5989-27-5, EINECS number 227-813-5). Racemic limonene is known as dipentene.[1]
    As the main odor constituent of citrus (plant family Rutaceae), d-limonene is used in food manufacturing as a flavoring, and added to cleaning products such as hand cleansers to give a lemon-orange fragrance. See: orange oil.

    Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone-Reminiscent of orris & violet chemical found in many frags

    butylphenyl methylpropional-chemical found in many frags


    methyl 2-octynotate, chemical found in many frags

    hydrosisohexyl 3-cyclohexene carboxaldehyde i presume another chemical..

    Also two very good websites when it comes to cancerigen ingredients and their risk http://www.ewg.org/reports/skindeep2/?key=nosign
    this one lists all the frags that contain a certain ingredient in which you're interested in

    And this one is very nice with photos explanations, A small guide to Nature's fragrances - aspects of the chemistry of the essential oils (and other materials of perfumery or culinary interest)
    http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOil...entialOils.htm

    I guess not too many natural ingredients found in Creeds..)))))))))

  17. #17

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by marcos_xs
    The potential of benzyl salicylate, an important fragrance and flavour ingredient
    benzyl salicylate
    (organic chemistry) C14H12O3 A thick liquid with a slight, pleasant odor; used as a fixer in perfumery and in sunburn preparations.

    benzyl alcohol ether with isoeugenol benzyl isoeugenyl ether. Odor Description :, sweet fruity spicy carnation.

    Eugenol and isoeugenol, characteristic aromatic constituents of spices, are biosynthesized via reduction of a coniferyl alcohol ester

    Cinnamal Fragrance with restrictions on use/concentration fragrance with restrictions on use/concentration set by International Fragrance Association

    Linalool A colorless liquid with a woody, floral scent reminiscent of lavender and lily of the valley, linalool intoxicates the olfactory senses in a wide range of perfumery applications and fine cosmetics. It's even found in Fido's bedding, giving him the soothing odor he deserves.Linalool
    Fragrance (Parfum) from natural essential oils. Linalool is a naturally occurring component of essential oils, such as Lavender Oil, Bergamot Oil, Geranium Oil and Ylang-Ylang Oil.

    Citronellol, or dihydrogeraniol, is a natural acyclic monoterpenoid. Both enantiomers occur in nature. (+)-Citronellol, which is found citronella oils, is the more common isomer. (−)-Citronellol is found in the oils of rose and geranium. Citronellol is used in perfumes.
    Citronellol is a fragrant chemical that occurs naturally in many plant oils, and in certain fruits and beverages. As a pesticide active ingredient, citronellol is used on food crops and ornamentals to attract mites, a significant agricultural pest. Because citronellol is used in tiny amounts compared to background exposures and shows minimal to no toxicity in laboratory studies, no harm is expected to humans or the environment when users follow label instructions.

    Limonene is a hydrocarbon, classed as a terpene. It is a clear, colourless liquid at room temperatures with an extremely strong smell of oranges. It takes its name from the lemon, as the rind of the lemon, like other citrus fruits, contains considerable amounts of this chemical compound, which is responsible for much of their smell. Limonene is a chiral molecule, and as is common with such forms, biological sources produce one specific enantiomer: the principal industrial source, citrus fruit, contains d-limonene ((+)-limonene), which is the (R)-enantiomer (CAS number 5989-27-5, EINECS number 227-813-5). Racemic limonene is known as dipentene.[1]
    As the main odor constituent of citrus (plant family Rutaceae), d-limonene is used in food manufacturing as a flavoring, and added to cleaning products such as hand cleansers to give a lemon-orange fragrance. See: orange oil.

    Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone-Reminiscent of orris & violet chemical found in many frags

    butylphenyl methylpropional-chemical found in many frags


    methyl 2-octynotate, chemical found in many frags

    hydrosisohexyl 3-cyclohexene carboxaldehyde i presume another chemical..

    Also two very good websites when it comes to cancerigen ingredients and their risk http://www.ewg.org/reports/skindeep2/?key=nosign
    this one lists all the frags that contain a certain ingredient in which you're interested in

    And this one is very nice with photos explanations, A small guide to Nature's fragrances - aspects of the chemistry of the essential oils (and other materials of perfumery or culinary interest)
    http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOil...entialOils.htm

    I guess not too many natural ingredients found in Creeds..)))))))))
    Wow - thanks for that. Not only is it a long time ago but *I SHOULD HAVE BEEN LISTENING* now why didn't anyone tell me that at the time??????.......wait a minute.....they did....argghhhhhh.......(enter self pitying mid-life-crisis mode)
    "Dont try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  18. #18
    marcos_xs's Avatar
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    Cool Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder
    Wow - thanks for that. Not only is it a long time ago but *I SHOULD HAVE BEEN LISTENING* now why didn't anyone tell me that at the time??????.......wait a minute.....they did....argghhhhhh.......(enter self pitying mid-life-crisis mode)
    Well I guess they tried to..)))))

  19. #19

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Scentinell, are you serious?
    On what is your statement based?
    M

  20. #20

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    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    In many monasterys and hermitages here the monks are making the mir (it's a hallowed and perfumed oil) with different aromas. I took once two little containers, one with jasmine and one with lilac aromas. One day I put some on my hand and asked my grandma to smell it (BTW she used all her life Guerlains and Diors) and she found it exquisite; she thought it was a very expensive perfume. And in a way she was right as I am yet to find a perfume in which the jasmine smells like the one in that oil. The only problem was that it didn't had sillage as there was no alcohol in it; and the best part is that it was very, very cheap.

    Maybe there are more expensive oils out there from plants that are not too common, but the majority are not and I think that the perfume brands should stop justifying their high prices by saying that they use natural oils...
    Last edited by Luca; 8th September 2006 at 11:05 AM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Well, no one makes anyone buy anything.
    If you dont think its worth the price, then just dont purchase. =)

    MMM

  22. #22

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    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    I don't think it's a problem with the high prices; the problem is that they try to justify these prices by saying that they use natural oils. A good perfume is more then the sum of its parts and I don't mind the high prices, but the companys shouldn't think that their clients are morons who don't have a clue...

  23. #23
    Joel_Cairo's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by scentinell
    I would feel very confident saying that the ingredients used to make a Malle or any other frag. can be had for less than $5. Get over it.
    bah?

  24. #24

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyManMatt
    Scentinell, are you serious?
    On what is your statement based?
    M

    Absolutely serious. Any chemist can look at the ingredients on any perfume and tell you the same. Even a 20% EDP consists of 80% alcohol and water, which costs a few cents at most for say 4oz when bought in bulk. The rest of the oils and chemicals -- less than one ounce conmbined in a 4oz bottle -- probably cost no more than a few bucks (at the very most) when bought in bulk. With the $5 est. I was being generous assuming that some niche house might use something truly rare (albeit in minute amounts). I'm not saying thee's anything wrong in all of this, your paying for the genius who thought up your special frag., no different then paying $25 for a pill that cost .25 cents to make.

  25. #25

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel_Cairo
    bah?
    ... humbug...?

    I'll get me coat...

  26. #26
    Joel_Cairo's Avatar
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    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by lessthanthree
    ... humbug...?

    I'll get me coat...
    no "bah?" as in "what in god's name do you think you are talking about?!"

  27. #27
    Thrax
    Guest

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    God I swear I am sorry for starting this whole debate. Please god, let us not tear eachothers throat's out. Deliver us good pizza, and we will be happy. Also I hear this Thrax fellow is wanting a bottle of Mure et Musc Extreme by L'Artisan. Please god help him out. He is so broke, he cant even pay attention. Amen. (and no I'm not praying to Thierry Mugler)

  28. #28

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by scentinell
    Absolutely serious. Any chemist can look at the ingredients on any perfume and tell you the same. Even a 20% EDP consists of 80% alcohol and water, which costs a few cents at most for say 4oz when bought in bulk. The rest of the oils and chemicals -- less than one ounce conmbined in a 4oz bottle -- probably cost no more than a few bucks (at the very most) when bought in bulk. With the $5 est. I was being generous assuming that some niche house might use something truly rare (albeit in minute amounts). I'm not saying thee's anything wrong in all of this, your paying for the genius who thought up your special frag., no different then paying $25 for a pill that cost .25 cents to make.
    The only problem with your analysis sentinell is that it's far too generalized. It might apply to many fragrances but it doesn't apply to all as you seem to believe. A small amount of high-grade absolute or even a high-grade synthetics, such as those used in Malle fragrances, for example, will significantly raise the price well above the random $5.00 mark you quote, it seems from the top of your head.

    I am never heard from "Any chemist" that the bottom line for the cost of any bottle is $5.00, but I have heard from industry insiders that it can and many times frequently does go well over this though never to the levels suggested by the full retail price of a bottle.

    Unless you have harder evidence and an actually cost analysis sheet, most of us will take your insistence that the juice in ALL bottles, no matter what the house, has a bottom line cost of $5.00, with a grain of salt. It sounds like a nice way to characterize the big bad niche companies who are trying to rip us off, but it has little basis in the reality of high cost, high end perfumery ingredients. Again, the basis of my claim, actually conversations in my travels with perfumers, perfumery material manufacturers, and actual chemists working for the big boys of perfume making.

    Even more important than the magic $5.00 mark, I don't think telling seasoned, established, and respected Basenoters to "get over it", is going to make your claim any truer or any more believable. Such stridency is not a good idea. Eventually most of us are going to stop engaging you in conversation if you keep it up.

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 8th September 2006 at 01:39 PM.

  29. #29
    Thrax
    Guest

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    The only problem with your analysis sentinell is that it's far too generalized. It might apply to many fragrances but it doesn't apply to all as you seem to believe. A small amount of high-grade absolute or even a high-grade synthetics, such as those used in Malle fragrances, for example, will significantly raise the price well above the random $5.00 mark you quote, it seems from the top of your head.

    I am never heard from "Any chemist" that the bottom line for the cost of any bottle is $5.00, but I have heard from industry insiders that it can and many times frequently does go well over this though never to the levels suggested by the full retail price of a bottle.

    Unless you have harder evidence and an actually cost analysis sheet, most of us will take your insistence that the juice in ALL bottles, no matter what the house, has a bottom line cost of $5.00, with a grain of salt. It sounds like a nice way to characterize the big bad niche companies who are trying to rip us off, but it has little basis in the reality of high cost, high end perfumery ingredients. Again, the basis of my claim, actually conversations in my travels with perfumers, perfumery material manufacturers, and actual chemists working for the big boys of perfume making.

    Even more importantly that the magic $5.00 mark, I don't think telling seasoned, established, and respected Basenoters to "get over it", is going to make your claim any truer or any more believable. Such stridency is not a good idea. Eventually most of us are going to stop engaging you in conversation if you keep it up.

    scentemental
    JESUS! I felt the chill off that cold shoulder all the way over here. The very warmth of my blood seems stolen away. Scentemental always has some damn good posts! HOO RAH!

  30. #30

    Default Re: "They laughed when I asked where to get Malle on the cheap!"

    Excellent post scentemental.
    The fragrances containing real rose oil for instance should be a big exception.
    Many of us saw the tiny bottle of rose absolute that Azsmells pasted from e-bay the other week. The tiniest amount was well over a 1000$ .

    I would guess that Claiborne and such companies actually make proportionally more per bottle than the likes of MPG and Malle.


    MMM

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