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  1. #31
    Scentronic's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    I don't thiink Visit is particularly MANLY to begin with anyway. I wasn't saying that they wouldn't like it because they were gay (that was kingmist ). I don't think gay or straight would suggest any particular fragrance type preference either.

    These guys were a couple of toolboxes and it showed.
    Lately I've been wearing:
    Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah

  2. #32
    DustB's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectfeet
    By describing them, I was just trying to paint a picture for you.
    PF, I know you've written at length about the "truth" of stereotypes and about how society talks about them and reality you ascribe to the function of the stereotype, but when you try to paint a picture for us, as you've put it, you're inviting us into seeing a stereotype and suggesting it's familiar to us, as if we should say, Oh yeah, I know these guys. And then you're dismissive of their behavior, as if the stereotype explains all of them and their scent taste, right down to their not appreciating a scent you find "manly" and appreciate yourself for its "manliness." It looks to me like they're two people who disagree with your nose wishes.

    Tuner makes a great post, I think, and CJ and others have as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuner_Watson
    You shouldn't think you can justify stereotypes--even those you perceive as perpetuated by gays and non-gays alike--by listing all the ways someone seems to you to fit the elements of the stereotype. And, as noted, why is it relevant at all to your post that you concluded they were gay? If they had been black, would you have mentioned that? Would you have mentioned it and then added how they fulfilled "the whole nine yards" of some stereotype? Doubtful.
    Many posts on this thread have tried to show you the stereotype doesn't hold, no matter where you've seen it, and that the picture you want to paint for us displays awfully badly and inaccurately. Sure, there's homosexuality as an issue in the world and discussions of it. That means people are full characters--full people, more than flat representations of stereotypes rendered into cartoons.

    As a moderator I have to worry about this thread getting out of hand and becoming a flame war. There's good discussion of plenty of things here, and I think members post to it, because they want to be understood. However, there's a risk of things getting out of hand. Name calling and dismissive comments, general attacks, and discussion of issues far and away beyond fragrance in our lives will get the thread locked.

    Everyone, if your point has been made here already, please consider that as you weigh whether to post.

    I thank everyone for their thoughful postings.
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  3. #33

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    I am sorry if I offended some with my post. But in my opnion, I think more gays would want to be wearing something like burberry brit rather than Visit. There are people out there, even gays, out there who could love visit for what it is, but we all buy colognes to fit our personality, style, and appearance. To me, a scent like visit would not suit on most gay person's personality, style, or appearance. This is my opnion, take it or leave it, but I felt like I needed to clear the air.

  4. #34

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    In response to the original post...why do you even care what these guys thought? As someone who used to sell fragrance I can't tell you how many times I would hear some of my faves trashed. But so what-Not everyone is going to like what you do, and they're entitled to their opinion just as much as you're entitled to yours. No reason to feel a need to "retaliate", you shouldn't be taking that personally.
    Current faves: CdG White, Amouage Dia, Millesime Imperial, Miller Harris Terre de Bois

  5. #35

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    I love VISIT, one of my favourites.

    Hey, try Thai food sometimes, along with Sushi.
    Current Top 5

    1. Creed Aventus
    2. A*Men Pure Malt
    3. L'instant Extreme
    4. Nasomatto Duro
    5. CDG - Kyoto

  6. #36

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Quote Originally Posted by KingMist
    I am sorry if I offended some with my post. But in my opnion, I think more gays would want to be wearing something like burberry brit rather than Visit. There are people out there, even gays, out there who could love visit for what it is, but we all buy colognes to fit our personality, style, and appearance. To me, a scent like visit would not suit on most gay person's personality, style, or appearance. This is my opnion, take it or leave it, but I felt like I needed to clear the air.
    How would you know what gay people would prefer to wear, and why would someone's sexuality lead them to choose something like Brit over Visit? This just doesn't make sense.
    Current faves: CdG White, Amouage Dia, Millesime Imperial, Miller Harris Terre de Bois

  7. #37

    CologneJunkie's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectfeet
    By describing them, I was just trying to paint a picture for you. I would have done the same if they were black, straight, indian, children, whatever. If they were from India and wearing turbans, I would have told you. If they were white trash from down the street, I would have described their wife-beaters and flip flops.

    These guys had bad taste in general - and it was obvious. From their over-emphasized femininity to their brief and ignorant taste in fragrance.
    If I tried to "paint a picture" every time I heard one of my favorites get dissed, people would get awful tired of me, lol.

    And to state that they have "bad taste" because of their "over-emphisized femininity" and a different taste in frags than yourself... I guess you could say that *I* have "over-emphasized MASCULINITY", just because I for the most part wear men's clothes & men's frags, and I have rather "butch" mannerisms. Does that mean I have bad taste, too?
    "Wait...is David Bowie really God?" - Penelope Garcia

  8. #38

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    I don't buy into the gay stereotype.
    I'm a straight married latino male. I've seen gay bikers during bike week in Daytona beach who i would not even wanna mess with. Some of those guys make ME look gay.
    Are you not entertained??? Is this not why you are here??

  9. #39

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Omg
    Last edited by TheCure; 13th September 2006 at 04:20 PM.

  10. #40

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCure
    Omg
    ????
    Current faves: CdG White, Amouage Dia, Millesime Imperial, Miller Harris Terre de Bois

  11. #41
    Scentronic's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Everybody wants to be a god damn victim.

    lock the thread already, we obviously can't have a logical discussion without people taking offense to every little nuance of the conversation.

    And yeah, you know what? When I see a guy in a pink polo shirt with the collar popped, with a pink bandana around his neck, speaking in a deep lisp, I'm going to assume he's gay. Not because I'm ignorant, not because I'm prejudice, not because I stereotype people - because he looks like he's trying to emit a gay vibe, on his own behalf. That, and the fact that usually, when someone looks like this - they ARE gay. I had nothing to do with it, I'm simply making an observation and taking into consideration the things I've seen in the past. Now before you say "well not all gay people look like that!" . . . Uh, no sh*t. But it stands as a pretty good HINT that they probably are. Do they have bad taste BECAUSE they're gay - NO! Do very masculine men have bad taste - NO! These guys seemed like a couple of silly jackasses and I was making fun of them for that and that only.
    Last edited by Scentronic; 13th September 2006 at 05:36 PM.
    Lately I've been wearing:
    Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah

  12. #42

    CologneJunkie's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectfeet
    Everybody wants to be a god damn victim.
    If you are referring to what I wrote, I'm *not* trying to act a victim. I was simply asking why you think one automatically has "bad taste" if they portray themselves as "gay" or even different from the norm, and they have a different taste in fragrances than you? I'm just asking you a question, that's it.
    Last edited by CologneJunkie; 13th September 2006 at 06:07 PM.
    "Wait...is David Bowie really God?" - Penelope Garcia

  13. #43

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectfeet
    By describing them, I was just trying to paint a picture for you. I would have done the same if they were black, straight, indian, children, whatever. If they were from India and wearing turbans, I would have told you. If they were white trash from down the street, I would have described their wife-beaters and flip flops.
    Feet, I see what you mean, and I took what you said in that spirit. You didn't sound mean-spirited to me, for what it's worth.

    It is true that whenever you're saying something with an audience, you never know whom you'll offend, and any mention of sexuality has a strong chance of setting people off.

    It brings up some interesting issues, which probably can't be dealt with here. For instance, what would people say to their friends, but would deny vigorously in public.

    I remember I worked in a large company where women comprised most of the management, which was totally cool to me. One strange small by-product of that was that it was "OK" to make jokes about how stupid men are, even with men around. I generally let it slide off, although I did express my opinion privately to a particularly vociferous colleague, and she did ease off, at least with me. I can imagine the merde-storm that would have ensued if a male had made jokes about how stupid women are.

    It mainly depends on who's in control, which is, in fact, generally white straight males here in our wonderous US.

    On a more positive note, if I see someone dissing a scent that I like, it often shows that I'm doing something right! I do like Visit very much, BTW.

  14. #44
    Basenotes Plus
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    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    I don't believe any mean-spiritedness was intended. I just don't understand how mentioning whether a person's gay or straight, or fat or thin, or black, or Asian, or preppy or a biker has anything to do with an opinion regarding a fragrance.
    "I felt something so intense, I could only express it in a perfume." - Jacques Guerlain
    Currently wearing: SummerbyKenzo by Kenzo

  15. #45

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    I'm not really offended but don't find the story funny. You had to either be there or a better writer had to retell it, I think. I can see how this post would bother some poeple though. and I question whether PF would have ever written something like "they were sooo black! dark complexion with do rags and gold chains and oversize fubu and the whole nine yards!"

    As far as "everybody has to be a goddamn victim" bear in mind, most gay people and certainly all obviously gay people have in fact most likely been victims of discrimination, harrassment and often violence just for being who they are. Even a lot of gay guys despise "queeny" men. In fact it's getting to be more like that all the time. The younger post "gay lib" generation of gays is really quite homophobic compared to the last generation. Check out their "men for men" ads on craigslist sometime. You'll find half of them are "bi" with "girlfriend out of town" it's really disconcerting.

    Anyway, I had a similar experience yesterday I visited the scent bar and there was an icelandic woman there and she was tryign some things and I was trying things like the andy tauer frags and saying "I like this" about air morrocain and lonestar memories and a few other things and she'd take the scent strips from me and to try and then sputter "oh god!" in disgust "jesus christ!" *cough cough* and I felt like saying to her "hey, don't bother to spare my feelings, I'm cool". Actually I just though it was really funny but did feel she was being a bit. .. almost impolite. I mean it really was a bit embarrassing to say "I like this" then have a person practically puke over it.

  16. #46

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    ^ Yeah, that's a bit rude, but you have to expect it with people who aren't used to smelling scents with stronger characters. I have to admit that the first time I smelled Visit, I was a little repelled by it. I still think the ginger is too heavy (and for that reason I enjoy Rush a lot more) but I've grown to like it in winter. Many of my friends still don't like it much.

    It was probably the same situation with the two guys PF was talking about. It has nothing to do with gayness, the scent is just pungent and off-putting to the inexperienced, especially right out of the bottle.

    But yeah, that lady was rude. She could have expressed her disagreement is a more tasteful way than feigning a gag reflex...unless you really DID pick something that made her gag. In that case, way to go!!
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  17. #47

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    My personal policy, which I think is a good one, is that I never mention someone's race, sexual orientation, etc. unless it is specifically relevant to the conversation. This includes when talking about my friends, the person I am dating, etc. I don't take a very restrictive view of what is relevant, and I rarely have any trouble deciding whether to describe someone as "black," "gay," etc.

  18. #48
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    As was recently discussed, it all comes down to this - dont be offended if someone doesnt like your (one of) your favorite fragrance. Its a personal choice.

    And be glad they dont like it - its one less person wearing your favorite cologne !
    -

  19. #49
    Scentronic's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    I thank those of you who understand for understanding! It's not like I'm out trying to gay bash here or something! It's OK to acknowledge a trend or two from the things some gay people do, isn't it?!

    The last thing I wanted was to bring up a controversial conversation about gay people. If my wording suggested some form of prejudice, please know that text alone cannot transmit context and something you find offensive might be something to be taken differently than you had perceived.
    Lately I've been wearing:
    Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah

  20. #50
    Scentronic's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    You know, Mark makes a great point.

    Let me back waaaayyyy up. I stand corrected!

    Straight guys are STEALING the look!

    I guess by many people's standards, I'd be considered a metrosexual anyway. And I have indeed been called that as well! I'll stop far short of a pink bandana, but I do think that most of the gay people I see are very style concious and attractive. They also seem to attract girls! Maybe some of us straight guys should start taking some notes.
    Lately I've been wearing:
    Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah

  21. #51

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    "most of the gay people I see are very style concious and attractive."

    Most of the Catholics I see tend to wear black clothes and little white collars.

    Both statements show the same logical fallacy, I think.

  22. #52

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Quote Originally Posted by KingMist
    I am sorry if I offended some with my post. But in my opnion, I think more gays would want to be wearing something like burberry brit rather than Visit. There are people out there, even gays, out there who could love visit for what it is, but we all buy colognes to fit our personality, style, and appearance. To me, a scent like visit would not suit on most gay person's personality, style, or appearance. This is my opnion, take it or leave it, but I felt like I needed to clear the air.
    </Sarcasm>KingMist, I will be sure that we all bring this up at our next meeting. I hope you can understand, however, that with the wide diversity of gay people in the world it will be really hard to get consensus on such matters. Just yesterday I was telling my left handed brother why I thought that his BMW didn't suit him, him being left handed and all. Surely 'lefties' would appreciate a US domestic car so much better, don't you think? He just looked at me like I was crazy, naive, and hopelessly ignorant of the world and its diverse peoples.</sarcasm>

  23. #53

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    This happens at fragrance counters often. People who know nothing about fragrance sniff and give commentary on all the scents...Of course I have to be good because I work for Armani and RL fragrances...and I can't say what I would like to say....The conversation that really kills me is people spray Gio and say that's too strong...I feel like saying..if this is too strong...then you surely won't like anything here...Oh well.
    I thought that Visit was a good fragrance...and still is a good scent...Yes it is very hard to be nice as someone disses one of your faves...but that's life...there will always be that one person who can't stand what you Love.
    Gary

  24. #54

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Im sorry to have to continue this thread in this section, but I'd like to be able to just quickly drop my $0.02 about the issue here.
    I dont believe that gay people can be stereotyped, as they can fit any image of a human being that they want. Sexual orientation is an internal thing, and although it may manifest itself through external expression, it is impossible to label someone as gay or not gay simply from the way they choose to project themselves.
    That being said, I believe also that the gay community DOES have an image. This image, however much it can change and evolve due to its members, still chooses to present itself as a unified image/type to others. This does not mean that it is a narrow presentation, rather that it does have the ability to be broad and diverse while still being defined. while the rainbow flag itself is a neutral icon, I think it just points out that the gay community is unified as a community. For example, there is a very vibrant gay community here in Vancouver. Each year there is a "Pride Parade" down Davie street, in which many organizations and affiliated clubs participate. Regardless of how each of them choose to participate, they all contribute to the view (stereotypical or close to real) of the gay community not only to people viewing from outside, but also for those in the community to feel a part of.
    I think the original poster here was touching on that with his points, but his choice to use them in reference to cologne critique was misplaced.
    I dont mean to poke a very controversial and even sensitive subject, but at the same time I believe that we shouldnt be afraid to talk or debate on these issues.
    I DO agree though that this is not the area to do it (and I apologize now for adding to this) and perhaps in off-topic this thread could continue, or be locked.
    Also, people sure do have a lot to say about VISIT, I think now that I MUST try it!
    Last edited by LushLife; 14th September 2006 at 12:23 AM.

  25. #55

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Quote Originally Posted by KingMist
    I think more gays would want to be wearing something like burberry brit rather than Visit
    ::BITES TONGUE::
    Current faves: CdG White, Amouage Dia, Millesime Imperial, Miller Harris Terre de Bois

  26. #56

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    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    I wonder what would wear an eunuch or a hermaphrodite or a bisexual or a zoophil ....

    This thread seems so silly to me. I mean, the seriousness with which you guys treat the subject of sexual orientation, how sensitve people are to this subject and how easily they get offended...

    I don't think that perfectfeet's intention was to offend the gay people; to me, he outlined the fact that those two guys were gay only to show that even gay people have bad taste (if someone doesn't like a particular frag that doesn't necessarily mean he has bad taste, but in this case if they reacted so bad to this scent it's probably because they enjoyed bland AdG type frags) contrary to the stereotype by which gay people necessarily have good taste.

    It doesn't matter with who (or what ) you're fucking; good or bad taste does not depend on what the person with which you fuck (or make love, if we shall use a more euphemistic expression) has between her legs...

    And being gay doesn't necessarily mean being more effeminate, as there are gays who are much more butch in their behavior and clothing style then straight humans.

  27. #57

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    Ah you guys are ridiculous. First of all, it doesn't matter hwat you are. Black, gay, white, straight, etc etc. Everyone has certain tastes. Your personality determines that, not what you are. Just because someone is a certain thin does not mean they are similar to all the other people that is black, gay, white, etc etc.

    That's like saying black people aren't allowed to like anything but rap. This is a huge stereotype. It's like saying white people shouldn't like rap. Again this is a huge stereotype. It's like saying gay people should always have a great sense of style etc etc.

    What you are doesn't make up who you are.

  28. #58

    Default Re: 2 guys seriously dissing Visit @ TJ Maxx

    “There is no such thing as a homosexual or a heterosexual person. There are only homo- or heterosexual acts. Most people are a mixture of impulses if not practices.”

    Gore Vidal

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