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  1. #1

    Default Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    This in response to zztopp's question in the "Ambergris lovers" thread, "Montale versus Orsicent, oud win?" zz, you may have only been making a good pun, but I'm gonna venture an answer anyway. And I've started a new thread 'cause my answer didn't seem to belong in the ambergris thread or in either of the current oud threads, either the one on ouds and "oriental" frags or the specific thread about Montale Oud Cuir d'Arabie.

    I suspect Montale is probably going to win hands down on these boards -- the ouds of theirs I've smelled are incredibly seductive and appealing to anybody who likes the "oud effect." I'm new to frags, and, in my first few months of feverish sampling, Montale Black Aoud is the most mind- and nose-opening experience I've had. Before I tried it, I didn't know a scent could be that BIG, even as I'd sneezed over my first deep draughts of JOY by Patou. The other Montale ouds I've smelled since seem like they're likely to be well received by BNers familiar with and fond of other luxuriously wellmade niche fragrances -- as long as you like oud at all.

    But I do want to put in a good word for the Oriscent ouds, even tho' they're probably going to strike a lot of people coming to them for the first time as too strange for words (or wearing) -- Much as I'm enjoying practicing opening my nose / mind to them, Oriscent Green Papua or Borneo 3000 seem powerfully weird in ways that some may find offputting. A lesbian friend who's already made Lonestar Memories her signature office frag -- someone's who's clearly unafraid of pungency and funk -- called the Oriscents all kinds of bad things, "mercurochrome" being the least bad, and I won't say what she said the "mercurochrome" was on!

    Also, the Oriscents are incredibly pricy, even by niche standards. Still, IMHO they're one great place to start expanding one's smell-horizons.

    Thanks to the couple of BNers who've recently mentioned the oud in M7 -- I wondered why I liked wearing that so much, even tho' my partner told me I smelled like detergent!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Dear Minty,

    I've been dealing with Oud oil for years now, and it seems to me that there's a slight oversight in your comparing between what Oriscent and what Montale is selling.

    "Oud" is a term that is used in the Arab world to refer to a natural essential oil that comes from the Aquilaria tree. The different species of Aquilaria grow in different regions in the Far East - although they are all seriously endangered. The essential oil that comes from the fungus-infected trunks of this tree is the costliest aromatic substance on the face of the earth.

    It is precisely this oil that you will find on Oriscent's website - 100% pure, unadulterated Agarwood Oil - and some of them are of the grades that are used by the Royal Families of the Gulf and Middle Eastern countries (esp the Oud Royale and Borneo 3000).

    What Montale offers, on the other hand, is a synthetic imitation of agarwood oil. And many French perfumeries (like Montale) produce synthetics that are meant to "capture" the fragrance of a precious substance. You seem to have picked up on this, since you say the Montale line will appeal to anybody that likes the "Oud effect". That is exactly what it is, in reality, an "Oud effect" that does not posses even a single drop of pure Agarwood Oil in it.

    I am sorry if you already knew all of this. To me, it just seemed a little out of place to compare the real thing to synthetic imitations - and to say the imitation is going to win "hands down" when compared to the real thing.

    I have been wearing the Oriscent Ouds for years now, and there is nothing so spellbinding, so spiritually uplifting as their 100% pure Oud oils.
    Last edited by Oud Man; 27th January 2007 at 07:48 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Comparing Montale's ouds to Oriscent's ouds is the equivalent of comparing cube steak to tenderloin!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Quote Originally Posted by Oud Man
    Dear Minty,

    I've been dealing with Oud oil for years now, and it seems to me that there's a slight oversight in your comparing between what Oriscent and what Montale is selling.

    What Montale offers, on the other hand, is a synthetic IMITATION of agarwood oil. And many French perfumeries (like Montale) produce synthetics that are meant to "capture" the fragrance of a precious substance.
    Welcome to the forum Oud Man .

    I will agree with you on the first paragraph. we should not be comparing apples to oranges. Strongly disgaree with the second paragraph about Montale using synthetics. We have gone through a lengthy discussion on this, a while back.

    When you put statements like that out, please try to back it up with some proof, unless you are just giving your opinion on this. If you are just stating an opinion that is fine, if not please try to back it up.
    Last edited by maisonstinky; 27th January 2007 at 04:13 PM.
    Vijay"Maisonstinky"

  5. #5

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    You tell 'em Vijay. I love it when people spout supposed facts...excuse me but Montale doesn't use artificial oud! If they did, then their products wouldn't have to be temporarily pulled due to unavailability of a certain oud oil. This happens to them all of the time.

    I have tried Orriscent oils and I find they stay pretty close to the skin while Montale fragrances have killer sillage. Overall, I find Montale a superior (and far cheaper per ounce) product.

  6. #6

    Thumbs up Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Quote Originally Posted by maisonstinky
    I will agree with you on the first paragraph. We should not be comparing apples to oranges. Strongly disgaree with the second paragraph about Montale using synthetics. We have gone through a lengthy discussion on this, a while back.

    When you put statements like that out, please try to back it up with some proof, unless you are just giving your opinion on this. If you are just stating an opinion that is fine, if not please try to back it up.
    Will do, Vijay...

    And how to back it up? Look at the mere cost of what Montale is selling their so-called "Oud" for, and look at the cost of pure Agarwood Oil in the world market.... I can't express myself as eloquently on the matter as the Experts themselves can... So here's an email that was sent out very recently by Oriscent:


    Dear Sidi Abd al Ghani,

    May this find you in the best of afiya and iman. I haven’t heard from you in a long time, and was wondering how things are going? I heard from Sidi Muhammad that you caught the chicken pox, and never got any news after that. Please drop me a line, let me know how you’re doing. Also, how’s the Oud adventure going?

    Anyway, I thought to give you a heads-up regarding your favorite Oud oil... The Royale is going fast, and I will have to increase the price on it once we reach the very last of our supply.

    If we were to do the math regarding the true market value of this oil, it would go something like this:

    Out of one kilogram of raw agarwood, the distiller can get about 6 grams of agarwood oil – if he is lucky. That amounts to two bottles of the size we sell on Oriscent. Now, one kilogram of the sort of wood that’s been used to distill the Oud Royale goes for about $7,000 in the current market. Suppose you get 6 grams. With the cost of the wood alone, we’re looking at $3,500 a bottle – not taking into account the distillation expenses, the distiller’s profit, our travel expenses, etc. By the time we add our little margin to the oil, you’re looking, at the very least, at about $5,000 per bottle. Now if you go and age this oil about 20 years after it’s distilled, what does that bring the value to? $10,000 a bottle?

    The Oud Royale is currently selling for $390 a bottle. It will start going up soon, and will slowly reach a price of $1,500 a bottle. The way we see it, better have the Royale in stock and still available to the true lover of Oud oil, than for it to be history, a legend of the past, which was once available on Oriscent for a fraction of its worth, and then disappeared off the face of the market, never to be seen again.

    I strongly advise you, Sidi, if you bear any love in your heart for this splendid oil, to consider whether you should not acquire a lifetime supply of it. Depending on how much Oud you use daily, this can be as few as five bottles. In reality, all you need to apply is a single drop each time you wear the oil, or even less.

    Here is one of those once-in-a-lifetime opportunities to acquire something priceless, and enjoy the Oud of Royalty - literally.

    Salaam

    ORISCENT
    the oud experts
    Last edited by Oud Man; 27th January 2007 at 07:39 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    So this 'letter' from Oriscent is to set us all straight?

    And your merchant friend is losing more than $3000/bottle every sale?

    Just how stupid do you think we are?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    No offense, but since that letter is from the purveyor of the oil you are purchasing, it doesn't really prove anything. It sounds like he's just trying to get you to purchase more, to me. But I'm no "Expert."
    Another belief of mine; that everyone else my age is an adult, whereas I am merely in disguise.

    Margaret Atwood

  9. #9

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    C'mon, guys! That letter from oriscent is proof enough.
    What more do you want?
    Are you not entertained??? Is this not why you are here??

  10. #10

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Quote Originally Posted by radix023
    So this 'letter' from Oriscent is to set us all straight?

    And your merchant friend is losing more than $3000/bottle every sale?

    Just how stupid do you think we are?
    edited by moderator (paul g)
    #9: Avoid hot topics
    • Posts/signatures that involve religion are expressly forbidden on this board.
    • We have the right to lock or delete topics which have the potential to get out of hand. We have been running this discussion board for over five years, some topics come up regularly that cause problems. These will be locked.
    Would you pay $3,500 for a bottle of Oud - even if the Sultan himself were to hand it to you from his private collection?

    I assume you wouldn't. And neither would I.

    If you read the write-up of the oil we're talking about, you'll see that the only way to receive any of it is to be gifted it by the royal figure who had it distilled.

    In any case, I thought I was doing everyone a favor by telling them about something truly valuable.

    The skepticism I encountered was unexpected, and moreover offensive. So I shall give up my endeavors to talk about Oud and Musk, and let you all go back to your Montale collections.
    Last edited by Paul G; 27th January 2007 at 10:37 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    removed by moderator (paul g)
    #9: Avoid hot topics
    • Posts/signatures that involve religion are expressly forbidden on this board.
    • We have the right to lock or delete topics which have the potential to get out of hand. We have been running this discussion board for over five years, some topics come up regularly that cause problems. These will be locked.
    Last edited by Paul G; 27th January 2007 at 10:38 PM.

  12. #12

    Wink Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    First of all welcome Oud Man ( killer name ),
    Secondly, as maisonstinky has said, the authenticity of Montale's agarwood / oud has been debated in length. It has even included a member visiting Montale and seeing and sampling the very oil used. I am a agarwood lover and fanatic and own several strains from different countries, I even burn it on occasion. So , I am familiar with what the general scent profile of oud. You are right in saying that coparing the two are like apples and oranges, since one is an essential oil and the other is an ingredient in a parfum. The letter you posted only confirms, what most know after looking into it, that it is indeed rare and getting more scarce by the day. While its scarcity does have something to do with the price, I feel that excessive mark ups by all the hands it passes through may also play a part. For what you pay for a 1/4 tola from one person you can get a full tola from someone closer to the source. All I'm trying to say is that just because something is more expensive and something is cheaper doesn't make it real or fake and always consider the source. Anyway I'm glad another oud lover is on board.

    Cheers,
    J

  13. #13
    moondeva's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    I actually find this quite unnecessary.

    edited by moderator (paul g)
    #9: Avoid hot topics

    • Posts/signatures that involve religion are expressly forbidden on this board.
    • We have the right to lock or delete topics which have the potential to get out of hand. We have been running this discussion board for over five years, some topics come up regularly that cause problems. These will be locked.

    This is first and foremost a forum for the discussion of perfume and fragrance with a rule of tolerance and respect for differing points of view. Why then the descent into general personal attack / insult? Completely unnecessary and unhelpful.

    As to the topic of the thread, Oud Man has suggested an alternative to the Montales. I would be interested to hear from those who have actually sampled both and will probably reserve my own judgement until I have actually had a chance to sample a variety of both for myself.

    I do hope that this will not descend into another free-for-all slanging match and that we can all get back to what truly matters here - the jus!

    JMHO
    Last edited by Paul G; 27th January 2007 at 10:39 PM.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Quote Originally Posted by robyogi
    +1. And I reported the post as a religious flame. I do hope that we can now hear more about the fragrances themselves, and no more of this religious spam.

    Does anyone else have experience with both of these brands?
    I agree. This needs to stick to the topic at hand. If anything else comes up regarding generalizations about culture or religion the thread will be removed.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Some interesting facts and information regarding ouds in this thread (except for all the religious intolerance crap which needs to be removed from all facets of life, and ofcourse has no place on this site).

    From what I know, we have had statements from Montale regarding the authencity of their ouds - this is not too dissimilar to the Oriscent statements, or the claims that Creed uses all natural ingredients, or that Frederic Malle's Vetiver Extraordinaire and Carnal Flower use the highest percentages of Vetiver and Tuberose in the industry respectively.

    These are all claims by the respective houses, and its upto the consumer to experience the products and decide whether the claims are warranted. The only other way to know is to reverse engineer/chemically analyse the products and verify the claims - is anyone willing to do that ? I think not. So lets decide ourselves whether it smells like the real thing. From my point of reference, Montale ouds are high quality, and definitely a step up from something like YSL M7. Ofcourse I havent tried the Oriscent products so cant verify their claims.
    -

  16. #16

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Sometimes I feel completely invisible on Basenotes. Yes, I have tried both (as I posted earlier). I thought the oriscent attar and oud oils stayed pretty close to the skin but the Montales have killer sillage. The difference here would be that Montales have the three tiered notes where the Oriscent oil is usually either a single accord or even a one ingredient oil and usually the subject is a basenote so it makes sense that it would stay close to the skin. However, I prefer complex fragrances containing top, middle, and base notes. I don't want to hear one note of music played over and over and over, I like lots of notes and I like my fragrances the same way.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    I also agree with zztopp, that Montales are a huge step up from M7 (my sotd!). I wore Royal Oud last night and find it absolutely breathtaking!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    I haven't tried Royal Oud but M7 is an extremely well-blended fragrance that is miles ahead of Aoud Pur Oriental and all of the other Montales I've sampled. Aoud Pur Oriental smells remarkably similar to M7 (but not nearly as good) and lacks most all of the critical features of a finely crafted fragrance. I appreciate the Montale ouds but they're certainly not paragons of blending. Either way, I like Black Aoud a lot. It's one of my favorite frags.

    Regarding the quality of their oud....no one knows the answer to that other than the people who make the fragrances. In general, it is pure speculation to make claims that one fragrance contains a higher quality ingredient than another. The big fragrance firms have all sorts of ways of acquiring various raw materials. One never knows the genesis of most ingredients. It is likely though that houses such as Guerlain (even with new ownership) still use only the absolute best ingredients money can buy.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran
    I haven't tried Royal Oud but M7 is an extremely well-blended fragrance that is miles ahead of Aoud Pur Oriental and all of the other Montales I've sampled. Aoud Pur Oriental smells remarkably similar to M7 (but not nearly as good) and lacks most all of the critical features of a finely crafted fragrance. I appreciate the Montale ouds but they're certainly not paragons of blending. Either way, I like Black Aoud a lot. It's one of my favorite frags.
    I agree that M7 is very well blended, but what I meant was that the oud in the Montales smells more natural to my nose than the one in M7. Some Montales can come off as loud and uneven, but Black Aoud and Aoud Damascus are great interms of blending as well as quality of ingredients.
    -

  20. #20

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Don't get me wrong, I love M7, it's just not as Oud-y as I would prefer.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Quote Originally Posted by paintrman
    I also agree with zztopp, that Montales are a huge step up from M7 (my sotd!). I wore Royal Oud last night and find it absolutely breathtaking!
    Glad there is another fan out there. Its my favourite of the montales I have tried. I feel this one gets overlooked somewhat.
    "Donít try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. Ē - Henri Matisse.

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  22. #22

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Oud Man thanks for posting that letter. Being in sales I can tell you, that is a prime example of someone trying to urge you to buy more from them. That does not say anywhere that Montale is using synthetics or imitation Ouds which you strongly suggested in the first post. That is why I asked you to back your statement up. I hope you don't take that as a personal attack.

    I have no doubt that Oriscent's product is good, but then I had also mentioned (and some other members have also done the same) you are comparing apples to oranges.

    Moondeva and Robyogi some BN members (AJMC, Mstrcovie and Paintrman) have written in this thread about using both products, I hope you had a chance to read that to know their viewpoint.

    Radix my friend you got a little emotional over this, I know you as a very cool headed guy

    I am glad cooler heads have prevailed, and the thread is back to discussing things.

    And one last thing Oud Man I commend you for your taste in fragrances and on being a lover of Ouds, the only religion that we understand at this forum is the religion of FRAGRANCE my friend. That has brought people from different faiths together here to share a common love and understand each other as brothers and sisters. And That MY Brother IS A Beautiful Thang.
    Welcome to the forum

    Peace
    Vijay"Maisonstinky"

  23. #23

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    To add balance and fairness where it's due, Montale does sell pure Aoud oils at his boutique in Paris. I had a chance to visit the Place Vendome boutique and they were there in blue velvet boxes. Montale also visits with discuss business and creates fragrances for the the Royal Family in Saudi Arabia.
    "A great perfume is a work of art, it can lift our days, haunt our nights and create the milestones of our memories. Fragrance is liquid emotion. And that never goes out of fashion. " MICHAEL EDWARDS

  24. #24

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    Quote Originally Posted by aubrgene
    To add balance and fairness where it's due, Montale does sell pure Aoud oils at his boutique in Paris. I had a chance to visit the Place Vendome boutique and they were there in blue velvet boxes. Montale also visits with discuss business and creates fragrances for the the Royal Family in Saudi Arabia.
    Thank You for backing me and other BN members once again. I was hoping you would post to this thread also.

    I hope we lay this matter to rest once and for all about Montale using Synthetics and or imitations and just enjoy the scents for what they are .
    Vijay"Maisonstinky"

  25. #25

    Default Re: Montale ouds versus Oriscent ouds

    It was asked to stop this nonsense and it didn't. Sorry this thread is finished. My apologies to those of you who kept it on topic.

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