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  1. #91
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    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    thank u evoke,

    your English is much better then mine... there for u have explained my point very well.
    niche was not niche , niche was the norm... same in food market.
    we now know the small producers as niche because of the huge companies who put their name on any thing en SELL it because every one knows the name.
    CHANEL is not a perfumer or sunglasses designers , they pay people who deliver them the perfume concept and the design
    for a sunglasses. Of course this does not mean that they can not deliver good quality. they do deliver good and bad quality.

    Same with niche.... niche is copying designers to make more money and this way some essential part of the art dies.
    this is what is happening to amouage IMHO. It started from artistic point of view and for the love of perfumery and oriental traditions. the bigger and more famouse tey became the more the company started to adapt to the public taste.
    They changed the old bottle because after 9/11 people in the west did not wanted to buy bottle that looked like a mosque.
    so they changed and the old beautiful bottles are dead now.... all for the money and the general taste of the consumer.

    IMHO... niche , in the meaning of artist who make an art work.. food or anything with love
    loses the essence when they start to think more commercial then feeling real love for what they do and what they make. and same happened to many designers perfumes that are totally damaged now just to reach bigger part of the consuming customers .

    Love is the only way to keep art alive.
    money being involved... is the end of the true art.
    Last edited by moreda; 29th October 2010 at 07:51 PM.

  2. #92

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekove View Post
    This is an interesting topic that pops up frequently on this board. I do not want to claim that my opinion has more merit that that of others, but I do feel there are many points people who post these threads keep missing:

    What is wrong with generalizing?

    Stereotypes and generalizing are hardly criticized in todays society, and that is due to a lack of understanding, or rather ignorance of how the human brain works. This not only applies to fragrances, but any topic you can think of from politics, religion, racism (or rather what is racist), hobbies, or pretty much anything.

    The human brain likes to categories information, that is why we generalize. Nothing is ever absolute and if you do think so, you are ignorant, however you're just as ignorant if you're going to argue against generalizing by saying it should not be used because it is not always correct. Generalization reflects how we categorical judge information. In this case, niche being considered generally better than designers, and that is true as I will explain later. Sure, maybe some people here think 95% of niche is better than designer, but I'm sure most people realize it's more like 70% vs 30% or so.

    So why is niche better?

    Let me define what I think Niche is; it simply means (to me) that the fragrance are more exclusive than designer and this is determined by these 3 main factors:

    1. Niche has limited distribution/supply; sadly not many examples of that that I can think of today, except for frederic malle perhaps.

    2. Niche is more unique and more risky, thus less people show interest in them. Only certain noses can appreciate them or are willing to take a risk in wearing them. Again, today this is more of a 50-50 thing, you've got creeds and bonds which are quite safe. And Serge Lutens/Amouage which do take some confidence and knowledge to appreciate.

    3. Niche is more expensive. Really the only criteria some niche brands have to meet to achieve exclusivity, or the illusion of it.

    So what are the expectations of Niche? they're more unique, more personal or risky, done better, well blended and of higher quality among other things. Do all Niche brands meet these criteria? of course not. And they don't really have to meet all of them either. Tom Ford is an example of a Niche brand I would consider not to be of high quality or complexity, but they make up for that by being very personal (due to simplicity) and very well blended. On the other hand, if you look at Amouage Gold and Chanel no5, you'll see the smell almost identical so no uniqueness there. Amouage makes up for that by the superb, very noticeable quality.

    What are the expectations, or the objectives of a designer brand on the other hand;

    1. Low price: Achieved by lower quality ingredients, perfume concentration and so on. Moreover, fragrance are more often reformulated than they are in niche, and without a good excuse since they use more synthetic materials than hard to find natural ingredients. And by no means I'm saying natural always smells better, or designer lacks natural/niche is always natural. Just speaking generally

    2. Maximize profit: Making safe fragrance that are done many times before. Adding very little new and not bumping up quality to make up for that. There are exceptions as well, Chanel No.5 is high quality for example, YSL is a house that takes risk, and so on. Also, making countless flankers of best sellers that are completely forgettable. Sorry but flankers do on your resume and you know they're not expected to be that good or else they would not be limited. Of course there are important exceptions like pure malt, NR Musc EdP and so on.

    My conclusion:

    Niche is generally better than designer for reasons stated above. I don't know what the distinction between designer and niche came into existence. As a term, niche is just a word that means exclusivity and practically has little to do with how the fragrance smells. It's just there are expectations with that word that are usually met, at least are more met by considered niche fragrances than they are by designer fragrance. While Niche are becoming less exclusive and less risky lately, designers are still at a much worse state. Serge Lutens, Frederic Malle and Amouage continue to release master pieces, while Bond no.9 and creed hold niche stats for price alone. But compare that to the great designer houses: Chanel just released a completely boring, safe, done so many times before, but all around pleasant fragrance. YSL is not taking many risks with their new L' Homme line. And Guerlain, as much as it's brought over and over and over again in these discussions, have not released a classic for decades, get over the past please.

    Also, while I do not understand your Ropion analogy. He created a few good/great designer fragrances, many forgettable ones, and a Niche masterpiece? how does that give any credit to designer fragrances? The nose behind them could be a master, but his skills are not shown due to the criteria he has to meet.

    Anyway, I'll wrap this up by saying, yes people can be biased towards one opinion or another, one brand or another. Sometimes just for the price of the feeling of exclusivity the brand gives them in the case of Niche, people do not like being in the majority, they like to be anti-conformists. And every now and then, some anti-anti-conformists, who feel anti conformists are now the majority, will pop up and say look at guerlains master pieces, look at all the lies and synthetic boring crap creeds releases. Niche brands use bullcrap marketing just like designers do, with all the exclusivity, uniqueness, high quality claims that they do not necessarily meet. That still does not disprove the solid generalization that niche is better than designer fragrance in most cases. I'm of course saying this of 1. The present 2. in totality - Bleu de Chanel is not a bad fragrance, I'd give it a solid B- on it's own, but it has been done dozens of times before in the designer world, and thus it's certainly worse than say Ambre Sultan, which is a niche fragrance I'd give a B-
    And I could come up with just as lengthy a post with 3 reasons why designer is better.

    Its all just objectives and opinions.

    I own a good amount of both. I just judge on smell. Period.

    I’ve gotten over the “nice must be better” mentality. There’s plenty of niche scents I just simply despise, like MKK.

    There is no better. Just take each individual fragrance on its own.

  3. #93

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by md1grwl View Post
    And I could come up with just as lengthy a post with 3 reasons why designer is better.

    Its all just objectives and opinions.

    I own a good amount of both. I just judge on smell. Period.

    I’ve gotten over the “nice must be better” mentality. There’s plenty of niche scents I just simply despise, like MKK.

    There is no better. Just take each individual fragrance on its own.
    I'm trying to make a point here, that there is a reason niche is generally better. Are you claiming it's 50-50? go ahead, I'd like to see your 3 reasons designer is actually GENERALLY btter.

    From your post, you just seem to have no interest in this discussion to begin with, if you're going to go straight up to the conclusion and say judge each fragrance individually. This thread is about patterns and categorizing.

  4. #94

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekove View Post
    I'm trying to make a point here, that there is a reason niche is generally better. Are you claiming it's 50-50? go ahead, I'd like to see your 3 reasons designer is actually GENERALLY btter.

    From your post, you just seem to have no interest in this discussion to begin with, if you're going to go straight up to the conclusion and say judge each fragrance individually. This thread is about patterns and categorizing.
    I don't have 3 reasons designer is better. Thats because I don't believe it to be a true statement. Just like I don’t believe niche is better being a true statement..
    There’s few of each, designer & niche, that I fall head over heals in love with. They both have a 10/90 % shot at pleasing or displeasing to me. 10% yes, 90% no.

    Most designers smell to bland and ‘nice’. While most niche go too far and make themselves unwearable. Out of the hundres I've sampled, I select few I actually buy and wear. Thats goes for both sides of the coin.

    And whats so wrong with me going right to the conclusion, right to the heart of the matter by stating the obvious? That there is no ‘better’.
    I’m only allowed to make philosophical thoughts and not come to a conclusion? You did. You stated “niche is better”. You came to your conclusion. So did I. Mine is - there is no ‘better’.

    Out of the two of us, guess who’s right and who's wrong?

  5. #95

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by md1grwl View Post
    I don't have 3 reasons designer is better. Thats because I don't believe it to be a true statement. Just like I don’t believe niche is better being a true statement..
    There’s few of each, designer & niche, that I fall head over heals in love with. They both have a 10/90 % shot at pleasing or displeasing to me. 10% yes, 90% no.

    Most designers smell to bland and ‘nice’. While most niche go too far and make themselves unwearable. Out of the hundres I've sampled, I select few I actually buy and wear. Thats goes for both sides of the coin.

    And whats so wrong with me going right to the conclusion, right to the heart of the matter by stating the obvious? That there is no ‘better’.
    I’m only allowed to make philosophical thoughts and not come to a conclusion? You did. You stated “niche is better”. You came to your conclusion. So did I. Mine is - there is no ‘better’.

    Out of the two of us, guess who’s right and who's wrong?
    Alright, the point you're making is far from philosophical, more likely politically correct. Fine, you might really find designers and niche to EQUALLY have the same consistency of pleasing you. But would you argue that they have equally the same odds of creating something better from a quality, uniqueness, presentation, complexity point of view?

    Alright, I admit I might be rushing to conclude you're just trying to be politically correct, and skip making an argument, which is absolutely alright, and you have a right to your opinion, but I don't see what's the purpose of you joining this discussion in that case. Also, I have a big doubt one could truly find niche and designers to have a 50%/50% chance of being better than the other. But hey, whatever, maybe that's truly the conclusion you've reached after a lot of sampling. For me, I'd say the numbers are more like 70%/30% when it comes to which being better, niche of course having the advantage.

    And I don't think either of us right or wrong, I just don't understand what you're trying to "add" to this discussion with your absolutely neutral opinion.

  6. #96

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Ekove-
    The Human brain does not "like to generalise" but human learning can be linked with an ability to catagorise. The effort we put into making detailed catagories in our understanding (i.e. noting differences rather than generalities) is a measure of the depth of our understanding. It is easy to see connections between things from a distance but these often end up being mistaken when a closer scale of anaysis is used.

    Niche is definitely not better than designer. There are many designer fragrances made from better materials and better composed than niche ones.
    However, I do agree that for new releases now it is much more likely that good ones will be in the niche area than the designer area as the regulations and economics of the industry make it almost impossible to use really good ingredients in designer frags (other than the cheap ones, like vetiver..). Conversely, niche frags are often not composed by noses with as much skill and experience as designer ones...
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

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  7. #97

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    As always, I do my best to judge each scent on its own merits regardless of which "camp" the fragrance company falls into. Most of my favorites are designer scents, but there are quite a few niche beauties out there too... two of my favorite houses are niche: Maitre Parfumeur et Gantier and Parfums de Nicolai; my overall wardrobe however tends toward the designer houses. Even Creed has a couple I like, but none of my absolute favorite fragrances tend to come from that house. But what do I know? After all, I'm the guy who likes Guerlain Homme and Chanel Bleu.
    Last edited by mrclmind; 30th October 2010 at 12:14 AM.

  8. #98
    KMF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    I am also in the camp that niche doesn't mean better. I have both and enjoy both in my wardrobe. The only difference to me is that in the designer world there is a lot more dreck to sift through just because of the sheer volume of designer releases every year. So if I find 1 of every 100 niche scents to be bottle worthy, in the designer world it would be something like 10 out of every 1000. The percentages are the same, just that there is a lot more digging to do...

    I would also argue that rare, vintage designers are the real niche anyway...

  9. #99
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    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    While I do agree with the long post in the beginning of this thread, i strongly disagree with the author in some points.
    At first, I agree that niche doesn't mean more natural fragrances, or always fragrances that will be better than designer ones. Niche for me means, or should mean, especific ideas of notes that weren't executed by the designer market because of the risk that they may not become huge sellers. I have an impression that lots of classics, like Poison, Angel, Fahrenheit, Mitsouko, Jicky, Opium, would have been launched today as niche fragrances, because they were unique creations, that added something different, something new to the market, something that you would feel like you identified with the fragrance. They cannot be considered great, or even be considered outdated or inadequate by some people, but they were strong and different ideas that remain unique until today. Niche should offer compositions that would fit some wishes of specific groups, being an extension of what is offered no the markets. Because when you go for something niche, you're looking for something that you cannot find made the way you want in a more affordable price, so you're paying more for a different thing. From this perspective, niche may be or may not be better than a massmarket fragrance, it'll depend of what you use in the comparison. They can both coexist, you don't have to crucify one in the place of other.
    Hoewever, i do feel that it's harder today to find launches that can be compared with great older designer fragrances and actual niche fragrances. It seems that the industry is saturated and stuck on the motto "Copy your past fragrances, copy your concurrence, and give to your consumer a marketing idea, a bottle, but a mediocre fragrance". I don't know how you can create something new using the same materials combined the same way and on similar proportions. Chanel Bleue is a great example of this, a fragrance that is a juxtaposition of several masculine cliches that takes advantage of a strong commercial and the Chanel logo to influence unconsciously the consume of the quality and interersting level of the composition.
    But with the popularization of niche, part of it's unique side that served as a complement to the massmarket got lost. When you can have access to obscure niche fragrances on the net and with affordable shipping charges, what all you need is money to buy them. And because this market grew considerably, you start to notice fragrances that have a clear commercial aura, charged like exclusive and artistic fragrances. You have respectful houses, like Amouage, launching boring compositions like Reflection Man or Opus II, or houses like Le Labo, selling chemical bases in strict number of bottles and huge prices. Or even houses like byredo, where almost all inspirations seem taken from massmarket compositions. They seem like products made only to generate profits, which is a shame in this kind of segment.
    What i strongly disagree with the author is the notion that a fragrance to be technically good it have to last long and to have a considerable volume. In this analysis Lapidus Pour Homme would be a masterpiece, which is not. The author seems also very
    tendentious on Giacobetti creations, and he may not have tried her exotic ones like Idole de Lubin, Tea For Two, Costes, Dzing!, where she shows how inventive her work is and that she has quality at her compositions. I praise her for being able to not compromise her artistical view with unnecessary creations, like some that monsieur Ropion has in his catalog. And to tell that she doesn't have techinal skills you would have to know the courses that she took and her knowledge, which may be transformed in her artistical view in fragrances that you may not like, but that aren't less interesting. To me, techinical knowledge applied in low budget is waist of materials and talent.
    And you may also need to try and understand the work of artists like Lynn Harris and James Heeley and Histories de Parfums for example, to see that you don't need necessary to have a race card on massmarket industry to produce something interesting.

  10. #100

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    Ekove-
    The Human brain does not "like to generalise" but human learning can be linked with an ability to catagorise. The effort we put into making detailed catagories in our understanding (i.e. noting differences rather than generalities) is a measure of the depth of our understanding. It is easy to see connections between things from a distance but these often end up being mistaken when a closer scale of anaysis is used.

    Niche is definitely not better than designer. There are many designer fragrances made from better materials and better composed than niche ones.
    However, I do agree that for new releases now it is much more likely that good ones will be in the niche area than the designer area as the regulations and economics of the industry make it almost impossible to use really good ingredients in designer frags (other than the cheap ones, like vetiver..). Conversely, niche frags are often not composed by noses with as much skill and experience as designer ones...
    I know Categorizing =/= generalizing. And the human brain likes to categorize, but not necessarily generalize. But they're two interacting activities. If your brain categorizes Red as a confident, energetic, sexy color, and someone offers you a red sweater, or dress or whatever, you'll most likely think it is too risky to wear because it's too confident and vibrant, even before you've seen it. But of course, categorizing does not always lead to generalizing, it could even lead to the exact opposite.

    Anyway I do agree with the rest of your post.

  11. #101

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Someone put it really succinctly in another thread: Designer fragrances are like Thomas Kinkade paintings.

    For people who are not familiar with Thomas Kinkade, here's his website: http://www.thomaskinkade.com/

    For comparison, here's an example of a young artist I like a lot: Justin Augspurg

  12. #102

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    How many times have we seen posts like "wow <insert designer fragrance> is really good. It is niche quality." I think the concept is erroneous. Niche fragrances often obviously work off of concepts that don't riff on "hit notes" like so many designer fragrances do so they can therefore be unique; but uniqueness and quality aren't necessarily synonymous.

  13. #103

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    How many times have we seen posts like "wow <insert designer fragrance> is really good. It is niche quality." I think the concept is erroneous. Niche fragrances often obviously work off of concepts that don't riff on "hit notes" like so many designer fragrances do so they can therefore be unique; but uniqueness and quality aren't necessarily synonymous.
    Unless uniqueness is considered part of the assessment for quality.

  14. #104

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by supperman View Post
    Unless uniqueness is considered part of the assessment for quality.
    Unique can be really bad too!!

  15. #105

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Unique can be really bad too!!
    No doubt. I think most people agree that Secretions Magnifique is unique, but probably should not be considered a 'fragrance' at all. In a less extreme example, Musc Kublai Khan can be hailed as a masterpiece by some, but is considered disgusting by others. Because everybody have different tastes, by pandering to one group of people's taste, this will probably end up isolating others.

    Still, if I would consider perfumery an art, being novel is actually an important part of my appreciation of it. But again, it's not the only criterion of it.

  16. #106

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by supperman View Post
    Still, if I would consider perfumery an art, being novel is actually an important part of my appreciation of it. But again, it's not the only criterion of it.
    Understood; however my point was that niche doesn't necessarily equal quality; and designer doesn't necessarily equal a lack thereof.

  17. #107
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    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Understood; however my point was that niche doesn't necessarily equal quality; and designer doesn't necessarily equal a lack thereof.
    The opposite is true too...

  18. #108

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by rickbr View Post
    The opposite is true too...
    My point was that neither type of house guarantees a quality perfume, so I obviously agree with you.

  19. #109
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    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    My point was that neither type of house guarantees a quality perfume, so I obviously agree with you.
    I think the best way is to enjoy what both parts have to offer at best, don`t?

  20. #110

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by rickbr View Post
    I think the best way is to enjoy what both parts have to offer at best, don`t?
    That's what I've always done.

  21. #111

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Understood; however my point was that niche doesn't necessarily equal quality; and designer doesn't necessarily equal a lack thereof.
    Unfortunately, while I agree with you, I'd have to say that in general one can find more quality fragrances in niche houses compared to designer houses, especially modern releases. For this reason, I'm generally more excited about new releases from niche houses than designer ones. For example, I'm absolutely dying to try Bas de Soie, but I have little interest in something like Bottled Night. I'll try it if I pass it by at Sephora, but I won't purposefully seek it out, unless it gets highly recommended by others.

    Now, even for modern designer fragrances that are considered good, one could possibly find better similar fragrances in niche houses. For example, I got to try Bang! when I was in Harrods, and I thought it was a nice peppery vetiver fragrance. But then I passed by the Ormonde Jayne counter and I got to try Zizan, which is another peppery spicy fragrance and it runs circles around Bang.

  22. #112

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by supperman View Post
    Unfortunately, while I agree with you, I'd have to say that in general one can find more quality fragrances in niche houses compared to designer houses, especially modern releases. For this reason, I'm generally more excited about new releases from niche houses than designer ones. For example, I'm absolutely dying to try Bas de Soie, but I have little interest in something like Bottled Night. I'll try it if I pass it by at Sephora, but I won't purposefully seek it out.

    I'm not talking about personal taste, I'm talking about the quality of composition and materials used. I think that there is a misconception that niche houses always use better materials and have better noses. That's simply not the case. I think that niche houses have more freedom to experiment
    Now, even for modern designer fragrances that are considered good, one could possibly find better similar fragrances in niche houses. For example, I got to try Bang! when I was in Harrods, and I thought it was a nice peppery vetiver fragrance. But then I passed by the Ormonde Jayne counter and I got to try Zizan, which is another peppery spicy fragrance and it runs circles around Bang.
    Quality as a matter of taste is different from what I'm discussing. I'm talking about the inherent qualities of composition and fragrance materials. Many people prefer niche fragrances over designer and vice verse. That is a matter of taste. When we are talking about inherent quality of composition and materials, it is erroneous to say that niche is better than designer. When we are talking about personal taste, then of course such a statement is quite valid. Unless someone is able to have access to the data of the sourcing of materials from each house, than the idea of "quality ingredients" is purely subjective. As far as who employs the better noses, that is a matter of training. So many of the good selling niche scents are composed by noses recruited from the designer world. Don't get me wrong. I love a lot of niche fragrances. But I also love a lot of designer ones as well.

  23. #113
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    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Quality as a matter of taste is different from what I'm discussing. I'm talking about the inherent qualities of composition and fragrance materials. Many people prefer niche fragrances over designer and vice verse. That is a matter of taste. When we are talking about inherent quality of composition and materials, it is erroneous to say that niche is better than designer. When we are talking about personal taste, then of course such a statement is quite valid. Unless someone is able to have access to the data of the sourcing of materials from each house, than the idea of "quality ingredients" is purely subjective. As far as who employs the better noses, that is a matter of training. So many of the good selling niche scents are composed by noses recruited from the designer world. Don't get me wrong. I love a lot of niche fragrances. But I also love a lot of designer ones as well.
    What really frustrates me is to see the best designer fragrances, that we could find for affordable prices, getting discontinued or destroyed by awful reformulations.

  24. #114

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by rickbr View Post
    What really frustrates me is to see the best designer fragrances, that we could find for affordable prices, getting discontinued or destroyed by awful reformulations.
    Yes, that is one of the ugly facts of life, isn't it? Even the niche brands have been known to do some evil reformulations with no notice...

  25. #115
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    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Yes, that is one of the ugly facts of life, isn't it? Even the niche brands have been known to do some evil reformulations with no notice...
    This is one of the things that made me see the niche world with other eyes. I expected that this would never happened in niche world. You always see launches in the niche world that copies other niche fragrances and some designers too - i remember that i felt revolted when i tried sushi imperiale from bois 1920 to find that it was very close to opium pour homme.

  26. #116

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Rickbr: "You have respectful houses, like Amouage, launching boring compositions like Reflection Man or Opus II, or houses like Le Labo, selling chemical bases in strict number of bottles and huge prices."

    I'm sorry, but BOOOOOOOOOO on your comment. It's funny how people worship the really average niche fragrances, like GIT, but the really good ones like Reflection Man get comments like yours or no mentions at all. I have sampled many niche fragrances, and Reflection is by far amongst the top 3 that I have tried. And I tell you what: there is nothing boring about it! And talk about longevity! I applied it about 12 hours ago, and can still smell it , and it's not that faint either. Great composition, great smell, and great fragrance!

  27. #117

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

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  28. #118

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Quality as a matter of taste is different from what I'm discussing. I'm talking about the inherent qualities of composition and fragrance materials. Many people prefer niche fragrances over designer and vice verse. That is a matter of taste. When we are talking about inherent quality of composition and materials, it is erroneous to say that niche is better than designer. When we are talking about personal taste, then of course such a statement is quite valid. Unless someone is able to have access to the data of the sourcing of materials from each house, than the idea of "quality ingredients" is purely subjective. As far as who employs the better noses, that is a matter of training. So many of the good selling niche scents are composed by noses recruited from the designer world. Don't get me wrong. I love a lot of niche fragrances. But I also love a lot of designer ones as well.
    Good point. Personally, I find it hard to identify if a fragrance has synthetic or natural ingredients, so I tend to put more weight on the uniqueness of the fragrance as a gauge of quality. This is why I like Antidote by Viktor & Rolf. I find it a little synthetic, but at the same time, it's so different from other fresh and green scents I'd tried.

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    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larwiz View Post
    Rickbr: "You have respectful houses, like Amouage, launching boring compositions like Reflection Man or Opus II, or houses like Le Labo, selling chemical bases in strict number of bottles and huge prices."

    I'm sorry, but BOOOOOOOOOO on your comment. It's funny how people worship the really average niche fragrances, like GIT, but the really good ones like Reflection Man get comments like yours or no mentions at all. I have sampled many niche fragrances, and Reflection is by far amongst the top 3 that I have tried. And I tell you what: there is nothing boring about it! And talk about longevity! I applied it about 12 hours ago, and can still smell it , and it's not that faint either. Great composition, great smell, and great fragrance!
    I don't think that there's much difference between a GIT and Reflection man in terms of being average niche fragrances. Didn't got all that longevity, compared with the other amouage fragrances, and i also found, considering the great standards of the others fragrances from this house, weak and uninspired. This seem like an average idea made a little bit better, and it's not what i'm searching when i want something niche, i don't a better version of something comercial, i wan't something new, and to me is what Reflection isn't. It's just a proof that you can put material qualitys and make it last, but if what will last is not worth to last it will remain boring. One of the worst Amouages for me.

  30. #120

    Default Re: Designer or Niche: A Reevaluation (very long post)

    I think this excellent post by Scentemental deserved to be revived.

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