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  1. #1

    Question Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Hi All

    Can anyone shed some light on this? All over eBay its saying "we canot ship testers to Germany due to a change in the law"

    Have they been banned?

    Hmmm

  2. #2

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Theoretically it´s not allowed to sell testers in Germany and as far as I know nowhere else. Testers are not ment for commercial use. On my Heritage tester it´s mentioned clearly: Tester not for sale. But it seems that nobody cares. Testers are frequently sold via ebay Germany...

    Christian
    Last edited by costello; 13th October 2006 at 09:54 PM.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Perfume houses have occasionally sought legal redress against tester sales, buying up quantites off ebay and then sending the sellers letters of warning (a legal instrument including a high fine)
    But courts have struck down the argument that testers remain property of the supplier and thus cannot be passed on, because that by definition is the purpose of their content. I am not aware of new legal developments, Germans still seem to be selling testers on ebay. I do see sellers frequently that offer "perfume i do not like, nearly full, lost cap..."
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Isnt it the companies themselves who flood the market with testers ?
    -

  5. #5

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Ebay search 'tester / beauty and cosmetics, now: 265 items offered! At the same time Ebay have an 'advisory note' in their German language text pages, where they warn people not to offer or buy testers, as such contracts would be 'obviously illegal'. And yes, a statement whereby testers were 'not merchandize is also included. This is utter nonse, as is the commonly used clause to exclude warrantee! Weapons, drugs and certain art objects are typical exceptions to the free trading principle. There is not much else under restrictive laws. Germany and Britain are members of the EU. It would be highly unlikely for German authorities to even have an interest in restricting perfume sales any further. And if they wanted to, this would be conflicting with the free trade principles in the EU and with international law.

    Restrictions may originate from the industry, though. Model character have the rules and regulations of the automobile industry, and the music and book markets, whery drastic price cuts almost never happen. From all I can see, the prices for Cosmetics, perfumes, and pharmaceutical products are more or less fixed prices per country! They do not vary much from store to store. Consider the sale of testers an expansion into the the lower market sector. Producers generally determine if and to what percentage they allow testers on a market. If they can control specific markets, producers may export testers to one country, but not to another, like they may allow half size bottles to be sold in France and Germany, but not in Switzerland (a sad practice for Creed, and Montale fragrances). From all I know, regular French designer frags are often sold at lower prices in the US than in Europe (including France!) By all market rules you would expect it to be the other way around.
    Last edited by narcus; 14th October 2006 at 01:01 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Quote Originally Posted by costello
    Theoretically it´s not allowed to sell testers in Germany and as far as I know nowhere else. Testers are not ment for commercial use.

    Christian
    Manufacturers cannot arbitrarily write something on a bottle, and suddenly it is the law of the land.

    What they can do is write a contract between themselves and whoever they sell it to.
    If the second party breaks the contract and sells to a third party, they can take the second party to court.

    However, the third party has broken no law.

    The situation in most countries is that an importer imports and sells tester bottles. There is zero illegality in this.
    Renato

  7. #7

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus
    From all I can see, the prices for Cosmetics, perfumes, and pharmaceutical products are more or less fixed prices per country! They do not vary much from store to store.
    Hi Narcus,
    If a manufacturer said what you just said - that he fixed prices - in my country, he would be in court very quickly facing millions of dollars in fines.

    In Australia every item has an RRP , a Recommended Retail Price, to make it perfectly clear to consumers that there is no fixed price. Effectively, the same thing happens in most parts of the world with decent Trade Practices legislation.

    The manufacturer can only set general price levels by what he or she supplies into the country.
    Renato

  8. #8

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    I think the eBay seller lisalaw ran into trouble with this recently. Thought I read that somewhere or other.

    Also, not that it has anything to do with the question, but I have seen people leave negative feedback based on the "not for sale" sticker on tester bottles. Obviously this indicates they should have received the item for free.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato
    Hi Narcus,
    If a manufacturer said what you just said - that he fixed prices - in my country, he would be in court very quickly facing millions of dollars in fines.

    In Australia every item has an RRP , a Recommended Retail Price, to make it perfectly clear to consumers that there is no fixed price. Effectively, the same thing happens in most parts of the world with decent Trade Practices legislation.

    The manufacturer can only set general price levels by what he or she supplies into the country.
    Renato
    So do you have significant variation in perfume prices?
    Millions of dollars in fines is what apparently happened in France:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...5/ixworld.html

    As for the testers: There are being Testers sold IN Germany, selling/shipping TO Germany may be a different story, but I don't really have any experience with that.
    Last edited by fakepurseninja; 14th October 2006 at 11:58 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paisley
    I think the eBay seller lisalaw ran into trouble with this recently. Thought I read that somewhere or other.
    Also, not that it has anything to do with the question, but I have seen people leave negative feedback based on the "not for sale" sticker on tester bottles. Obviously this indicates they should have received the item for free.
    No, it does not mean that at all. A printed note 'not for sale' has no legal consequences as such. It is often seen on testers, and cologne samples as well. The legal owner of such items is in principle free to do with them as he desires. Professional perfume dealers, however, may have signed an agreement with their suppliers not to sell these side by side with packaged bottles from the shelf! In such cases dealers may violate contractual agreements. That is, however, not an illegal act, and not something Ebay should be concerned about! Why Ebay felt obliged to publish a warning is beyond me, and recently they had more than 200 testers in one day (on the German language pages).

    International commerce and trade is becoming more liberal, and universal based on Common market law outruling local legislation (free trade with little or zero customs and universal sales tax agreements, a vastly unified currency system). The EU again has cross Atlantic trade & customs agreements with North America and practically all major industrial nations.
    Within their own territory nations still can (and in certain economic areas areas still do) limit competition. Price fixing is perhaps illegal in Australia, but may be allowed in Germany, or Poland. Cigarettes: how could one explain why Marlboro and Kent cost exactly the same in any kiosque from Hamburg to Munich, or in a little village in France? Same story with Gasoline. Private law allows Mercedes to make unified contracts with any German dealer of Mercedes cars. All 'licensed' dealers thus have to charge the same amount for the car, spare parts and services! Also Volkswagen, etc. dictate that. The Lobby was so strong that until recently it was illegal (!) for Germans to reimport a Mercedes from Belgium (and save a lot of money) as the same cars sold at a much lower price there! Mercedes dicates that ' choice to dictate the car price (in Germany) payable by the customer (a third party in such contract!) The same also holds true for books. It does not matter where you buy your Goethe in Germany: the Editor determines the customer price. The Car dealers margin is kept a secret. The book dealer's margin also is subject to negotiation between him and and the editors. This practice also still applies to major brand cosmetics and colognes. Manufacturers of established brands have unbelievable power, simply by 'fining' traders with boycots and margin cuts. Brand and high mark-up, fairly stable over the years, that is economic reality in quickly growing areas of the world.

    If I am a small importer, or owner of a little boutique, Louis Vuitton (with all the brands they control) can crush me if I do not meet their requirements. I may win a court case, but may be ruined on y way. A new shop specializing in English colognes offered, as a novelty, the half size Creed bottles in the beginning. But alas - he ran out of supply. As creed didn't believe in small sales, they cancelled this dealer from their supply list. Creed sells better here than Trumpers, Penhaligons, etc. The dealer had to give up and sold his shop. You would think that Creed's action should be illegal, but it was not.
    Last edited by narcus; 15th October 2006 at 09:29 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Quote Originally Posted by costello
    Theoretically it´s not allowed to sell testers in Germany and as far as I know nowhere else. Testers are not ment for commercial use. On my Heritage tester it´s mentioned clearly: Tester not for sale. But it seems that nobody cares. Testers are frequently sold via ebay Germany...

    Christian


    Costelle! That means only, in the shop where the tester ist diplayed - exaclty this bottel is not for sale! Because its a tester.

    The frag industry is producing this bottles - and this test bottles are not free of cost's for the handling shop!

    So its up to the shop owner to handle the tester's on the own behavior!

    .
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    I asked an eBay seller who informs me its an eBay rule that fragrances must be in retail packing when sold or shipped to Germany. Hmmm

  13. #13

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    A note about price fixing ... How does on explain that if you go out and buy a bottle of Acqua di Gio here in Toronto and go to The Bay or Sears (moderately priced department stores), Sephora, Holt Renfrew (high end department store) or Shoppers Drug Mart that you'll pay $95 for a 100 mL no matter what retailer you shop at? Is it considered price fixing if all retailers sell at the same price and except the product from any promotion or discounts? I think it's just a smart vendor.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    There is at least one seller who does not sell/ship AT ALL scents in Germany,so mayby the excemption has not to do only with testers...
    It's never too late to mend.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Wow, first the dismantling of 4711 and now this...whats going on in Germany?
    -

  16. #16

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    Wow, first the dismantling of 4711 and now this...whats going on in Germany?
    Good question - together with Hugo Boss, Laura Biagiotti, Dolce & Gabanna, Gucci, Rochas and many, many others '4711' is in the hands of Procter & Gamble, US.

    and 'now this': todays search on Ebay/offers Germany/'tester': had almost 0 results! And in product decription for regulars you next to always now find "no tester" added.Looks like sellers and buyers will soon have to move to any other country in the EU. Greece has the most tester sellers, and Rumania will be entering the EU on Jan 1. Long live the web, a bit of competition will always be welcome, also amongst auction houses!

    Originally posted by FragranceBoy: A note about price fixing ... Is it considered price fixing if all retailers sell at the same price and except the product from any promotion or discounts? I think it's just a smart vendor.
    I think it's killer instinct resulting in market control, replacing diversity and competition with 'brand quality', and standard mediocracy at an overprice! (Samuelson, Economics: the death of the American bakery...) The disease is spreading world wide, and it's not limited to food markets.
    Last edited by narcus; 15th October 2006 at 02:00 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Quote Originally Posted by discovolante
    There is at least one seller who does not sell/ship AT ALL scents in Germany,so mayby the excemption has not to do only with testers...
    You made me curious to learn more. As a collector of precious glass and china, I feel to have been cheated by German commercial and private sellers once too often.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    Quote Originally Posted by fakepurseninja
    So do you have significant variation in perfume prices?
    Millions of dollars in fines is what apparently happened in France:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...5/ixworld.html

    As for the testers: There are being Testers sold IN Germany, selling/shipping TO Germany may be a different story, but I don't really have any experience with that.
    Thanks, that was an interesting article.
    There is some variation in pricing down here. High end retailers tend to charge the Recomended Retail Price, and if it doesn't sell, then they clear it off in big sales.

    There are smaller chains that sell at somewhat below the RRP, and there are local internet dealers seller a lot below the RRP.

    Unfortunately, competition can never be as good as in the US, however, as it is fairly common practice for foreign manufacturers to make one person the sole agent for Australia. They in turn tend to restrict supply, and it means that other importers have to go someone other than the manufacturer to source the item.
    Renato

  19. #19

    Default Re: Has Germany banned the sale of testers?

    After browsing in ebay one can see that many wholesalers do not ship anymore testers in Germany.
    This is something I copied and pasted from one of them:

    Attention Buyers from Germany: According to German law, new, original cosmetic products may only be sold in their original packaging. The offering of new perfumes or cosmetic products without the original packaging or caps (including so-called testers, showcase, or demonstration products) on the German eBay Platform, or with availability to Germany, is not permitted.
    German Bidders: please do not purchase any unboxed items or testers. We will not be able to ship to your country.
    It's never too late to mend.

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