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  1. #1

    Default Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    I found a full 100ml bottle of Kouros on ebay from Canada for $20. Having heard such intense things about it here, I went for it blind. Actually I like to get most things blind if they're at a good price.

    Well, on the one hand, I really don't see what's so "ditry" and sweaty, spermy, etc about it. It's very nice. I'd call it clean and fresh even. But that's only if you use half a spray.

    If you use a full spray, you suddenly realize why it's called "eau de toilette". It really smells like pee. It's a sugary pee, as if you ate a box of cap'n'crunch, let some flow on yourself and didn't wash it off for a couple of days until fermentation just begins.

    What on earth is that note?
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    It is just Kouros...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR
    I found a full 100ml bottle of Kouros on ebay from Canada for $20. Having heard such intense things about it here, I went for it blind. Actually I like to get most things blind if they're at a good price.

    Well, on the one hand, I really don't see what's so "ditry" and sweaty, spermy, etc about it. It's very nice. I'd call it clean and fresh even. But that's only if you use half a spray.

    If you use a full spray, you suddenly realize why it's called "eau de toilette". It really smells like pee. It's a sugary pee, as if you ate a box of cap'n'crunch, let some flow on yourself and didn't wash it off for a couple of days until fermentation just begins.

    What on earth is that note?
    i think it's the honey

  4. #4
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    there are at least eight thousand threads on this topic. they can be found using the basenotes search engine. type in "kouros pee" "kouros piss" "kouros urine" etc
    "...The history of perfumery before this subdivision of niche was manufactured, both literally and imaginatively, is a long one, with thousands upon thousands of fragrances. The true fragrance lover takes each fragrance one at a time, and examines it preferably outside of the imaginatively manufactured categories and, in doing so, builds up a steady, informed basis for seasoned comparative judgments based on the sampling and information gathered from such sampling. This is why any one on the board who ever has anything particular interesting to say about fragrances as fragrances rather than as categorical constructs always has an abiding interest and passion for all kinds of fragrances and not just a narrow niche of fragrances. Conversely, the "niche whores," the more and more narrow their interests become, the more and more they mimic the ad copy of the very companies they worship. I know whose posts I like to read..."

    “Perfume is decidedly not about two things: it isn’t about memory and it isn’t about sex. Perfume is about beauty and intellect,” .......... “A perfume is a message in a bottle—not a smell—and the message is written by the perfumer and read by the person who smells it.”

  5. #5

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Ah - thanks, I shall have to do my research!
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR
    Actually I like to get most things blind if they're at a good price.
    :toppie: That's the way to go! I go for the roller coaster ride too.

    I can't say what the "piss" note is, it only smells off on me if I wear a lot of it. The only frag which tends to go bad on me is Givenchy Gentlemen, so I'll guess it could be patchouli in Kouros which could be the infamous note.

    On the other hand, Aura of Patchouli does not. I have only worn Aura of Patchouli when I'm clean though. In fact I use the Aura of Patchouli talc & soap too. My amigo scentemental has stated that patchouli seems to be a note which does not react well to unclean skin, so there might be a difference between wearing something patchouli based like Kouros at the beginning of the day/after a shower and spritzing at the end of the day. I haven't made an experiment out of it but I'll defer to his wisdom on this one.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    I bet its the civet note.

    Civet = gonad scrapings of the civet cat.
    -

  8. #8

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?


    Almost everytime there's a post on *Kouros*, the fabled "piss note" or "urinal cake note" is mentioned--too often with a prurient glee, and even more often, unfortunately, with a persistent denial that any fragrance can have a “pee note” in it. A denial that usually borders on the absurd and even the pathological as certain posters go to inordinate lengths and argumentative contortions to keep the fabled piss note out of their beloved *Kouros*.

    No perfumer worth his or her salt would deny the use of what are called “urinous” and “fecal” notes to augment the power, substantivity, diffusivity, not to mention the longevity of a fragrance. Some of the most important fixatives in perfumery--civet, castoreum, labdanum, musks, and even white floral absolutes like that those of jasmine and neroli all contain in varying degrees urinous and fecal notes that have proven indispensible to the perfumer’s art and have formed the bedrock of great women’s perfumes and, to a lesser extent, men’s fragrances. The best sandalwood oils are prized for adding a urinous animalic tonality to the basenotes of fragrances. These are not just my terms; these are the terms of perfumers and those involved in the production and refinement of aroma chemicals.

    I am, therefore, weighing in, once again, on the conversation with how I understand the nature of this fable “piss” note in Kouros. I have already posted this response in another thread, but I can’t seem to link to it, so I beg the reader’s indulgence in posting it again.

    Suprisingly, what is not mentioned often at all is the strong and persistent animalic note that is woven into the entire drydown of *Kouros*. It is present from the first spray and persists to the end of *Kouros's* dying breath.

    The "piss note" comes from this animalic component. Any one of three notes, jasmine, amber, or musk might be responsible for such a note. More than likely, it is the musk. Jasmine and amber tend to have a high indole component and project the fecal notes in many fragrances. Certain musks--and civet also--have a fecal component but also have what can be termed a urinous component to them, or, less delicately, a "piss note".

    My experience from observing various reactions from Basenoters to various civet and musk containing fragrances is that some people have a hightened sensitivity to "piss notes" and some a complete "blind spot" (a.k.a. selective anosmia). Sorry, I'm mixing my metaphors.

    Animalic components in fragrances are high-powered ways of extending the diffusivity and longevity of fragrances and, it's undeniable, their attraction. When blended well, as they're are in *Kouros*--unless you happen to be one of those people who is hypersensitive to fecal or urea notes--they intensify and clarify certain notes and also carry many of them, giving them an extension into the drydown they would not otherwise have had. They also add extra body and palpability to the fragrance, a certain undeniable textured aromatic substantivity. Finally, it should be noted, they appeal, at a very deep level, to the primal recognition of bodily odors by which--in our not so distant past--we used as the main means of identifying our fellow creatures, much like dogs do, and which were very closely tied to sexual attraction.

    Much of this explains, on one level, why there are such strong, diametrically opposed responses to *Kouros* and perhaps, also, why so many women tend to find it a very attractive fragrance on a man. Furthermore, since women's fragrances have, traditionally, tended to be about seduction, it should not surprise us that fecal and urea notes have featured prominently in such fragrances, predominantly through the urea component of civet and the indole component of jasmine and other white florals. On a very deep level, I suspect women get *Kouros* more than men do because of this experience with such ingredients. It's interesting to consider that of all the comments on the dreaded "piss notes" in *Kouros*, almost all of them have come from men. I recall that when the women on this board have weighed in on *Kouros* the "piss note" has not been an issue with them. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this point.) I used to wear *Kouros* a lot in the 1980s. As far as I can recall, *Kouros* always received nothing but praise from women. Men's reactions were ususally divided.

    scentemental

    Last edited by scentemental; 17th October 2006 at 01:47 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Exactly.

    Kouros in little amounts is amazing. You apply too much and you stink!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Lol I know what you're talking about, it's one of the few colognes which I don't just find boring, or unappealing to me, I find it downright disgusting.

    I'll probably be flamed but in my somewhat short experience with fragrance, I am totally boggled by how such a huge number of people on here find YSL fragrances to be so amazing.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Thanks scentimental - I'm a little confused though. How does jasmine smell urinous? Is it a property of the oil, or is this something added to project the jasmine? I don't know what indole is.

    And can you give examples of a fragrance with a heavy "fecal" note. I don't think I've ever smelled anything in a cologne bottle that evokes feces.

    And yess I feel a strong sense of Beavis and Buttheadesque glee whenever I get to say "pee pee". Huh, huh huh ,huh huh.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Phenomenal post scentemental. The kind that's so good it could generate tears.


  13. #13

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR
    And yess I feel a strong sense of Beavis and Buttheadesque glee whenever I get to say "pee pee". Huh, huh huh ,huh huh.
    lol caesar, how old are you man ?
    -

  14. #14

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    lol caesar, how old are you man ?

    Thirty-one! Prime age for pipi poo poo jokes.

    I'm really not a big fan of most TV, but I must say that Beavis and Butthead really strikes a deep chord in me in a way that "clever" shows like the Simpsons or South Park don't. Those shows are full of brilliant jokes, witty satire, clever dialogue etc - but Beavis and Butthead are REAL.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR
    Thanks scentimental - I'm a little confused though. How does jasmine smell urinous? Is it a property of the oil, or is this something added to project the jasmine? I don't know what indole is.

    And can you give examples of a fragrance with a heavy "fecal" note. I don't think I've ever smelled anything in a cologne bottle that evokes feces.

    And yess I feel a strong sense of Beavis and Buttheadesque glee whenever I get to say "pee pee". Huh, huh huh ,huh huh.
    I didn't say Jasmine smelled urinous. I said Jasmine projects the fecal note in a fragrance. In certain diluted concentrations, as found in white flowers, like Jasmine for example, indole actually has a floral bouquet note to it. It's actually part of the floral bouquet note in white flowers, and that's why it's used in white-floral predominant perfumes; it gives an added dimension, body, and extension to the floral notes. It literally fixes the floral notes and keeps them projecting stronger and for longer.

    Any great women's scents heavy in real jasmine projects a fecal note. Chanel No. 5 is a classic example. Pure Jasmine absolute has a very strong indole component to it as does neroli absolute. Many Jasmine aromachemical substitutes--very few perfumes use true Jasmine or large amounts of Jasmine these days--have the indole component removed. Keiko Mecheri's Jasmin is a good example. Jicky is another fragrance, especially, the Parfum de Extrait version, that projects a noticeable indole/fecal component that adds to the aromatic complexity and synergy of the other elements. In Jicky's case it is civet which provides the fecal note.

    You missed the point if you think of it as feces. While feces contain indole, they also contain many other noisome aromatic components. Indole, fecal note, and feces are not the same thing.

    scentemental

  16. #16

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR
    Thirty-one! Prime age for pipi poo poo jokes.

    I'm really not a big fan of most TV, but I must say that Beavis and Butthead really strikes a deep chord in me in a way that "clever" shows like the Simpsons or South Park don't. Those shows are full of brilliant jokes, witty satire, clever dialogue etc - but Beavis and Butthead are REAL.
    Uh no.... South Park is where its at !
    -

  17. #17

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    You missed the point if you think of it as feces. While feces contain indole, they also contain many other noisome aromatic components. Indole, fecal note, and feces are not the same thing.

    So you mean that indole is in feces as well as in various flowers, and as such when you have those flowers in your fragrance it evokes a "fecal" note?
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    Uh no.... South Park is where its at !
    Nah - the kids on south park are waaay too clever. Beavis and Butthead are real genuine north american kids brought up in an environment of TV and junkfood. Did you ever see the one where they are walking down the streat and this big dog attacks beavis and is basically eating him, and Butthead is just standing there giggling as if it were a television show?

    Or when they go to their friend's house and systematically open and shut every single cupboard door in the kitchen in rapid succession searching for the junk section?

    This is real life!
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR
    So you mean that indole is in feces as well as in various flowers, and as such when you have those flowers in your fragrance it evokes a "fecal" note?
    Exactly. Indole is the aromatic component found in both white flowers and feces.

    scentemental

  20. #20

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran
    Phenomenal post scentemental. The kind that's so good it could generate tears.

    Thanks pluran. I appreciate your comment and the sentiment behind it.

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 16th October 2006 at 03:37 AM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    I used to wear *Kouros* a lot in the 1980s. As far as I can recall, *Kouros* always received nothing but praise from women. Men's reactions were ususally divided
    When I wear Kouros, my guy pals rarely have complimentary things to say about it.

    But I dont even come close when I wear any other frag when it comes to female compliments.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    A friend of mine says that Serge Lutens Miel de Bois smells like urinal cake. It must be the tuberose there, another white flower.

    BTW, this same friend puts tuberoses in his bathroom to "cover up" bathroom smells...

    Go figure!
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Isn't this topic getting a little old? Anyways, I tried this out a little while ago, and while I don't smell the "pee" note at all, I'll be damned if it didn't smell exactly like urinal cake. After about an hour I smelled it again- it smelled fantastic. So, it's on my wish list. Anybody who doesn't like theirs wanna trade for some M7?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    Uh no.... South Park is where its at !
    Nah man it's all about Family Guy

  25. #25

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR
    .....I don't think I've ever smelled anything in a cologne bottle that evokes feces....
    Jicky!

    (rhymes with 'icky' strangely enough....)

    Nice if you like a blast of civet cat's arse right in your face.
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  26. #26

    Talking Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Meanwhile.....Kouros is mostly urinal cake. But there is some pee in there too for sure.
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  27. #27

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    So what happens when you layer Kingdom (McQueen) with Kouros? Anybody want to take a stab at this one?
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  28. #28

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy
    So what happens when you layer Kingdom (McQueen) with Kouros? Anybody want to take a stab at this one?
    You get Toilet Water.
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  29. #29

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by GenuineImitationLife
    Jicky!

    (rhymes with 'icky' strangely enough....)

    Nice if you like a blast of civet cat's arse right in your face.

    Aren't there ethical issues in terms of harvesting civet glands or something?
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  30. #30

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by GenuineImitationLife
    Meanwhile.....Kouros is mostly urinal cake. But there is some pee in there too for sure.
    Well what's the point of urinal cake without the urine? It's like breakfast cereal without milk.
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  31. #31

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    I just received a sample of Civet parfum from Michael Storer. Comparing it to Kouros (drydown), I can say with more confidence that its the civet thats causing all the commotion. Its not as raw smelling as the civet sample because of other notes like amber, honey, moss, vanilla, clove toning down its "sexual" potency, but it definitely is there.

    Its probably the most clear-smelling civet I have experienced in a perfume.
    -

  32. #32

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    ^ and is this Storer Civet parfum meant to wear alone or for layering? Are there any other notes in it at all?...I can see how civet is used to augment fragrances, but i just can't imagine wearing pure piss gland juice, not matter how valuable and high quality it is.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  33. #33

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR
    Aren't there ethical issues in terms of harvesting civet glands or something?
    perhaps, but there is no issue with harvesting urinal cakes from public restrooms. (sorry couldnt resist)

  34. #34

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcuccio88
    perhaps, but there is no issue with harvesting urinal cakes from public restrooms. (sorry couldnt resist)
    See - even if this is a much revisited topic, it doesn't mean that we don't keep coming up with improtant new insights!
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  35. #35

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveJazz
    ^ and is this Storer Civet parfum meant to wear alone or for layering? Are there any other notes in it at all?...I can see how civet is used to augment fragrances, but i just can't imagine wearing pure piss gland juice, not matter how valuable and high quality it is.
    Probably for layering. I cant see anyone wearing this by itself.

    I will probably experiment by layering it with GIT, Envy, Live Jazz, etc...all sorts of crazy combinations
    -

  36. #36

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    If I remember correctly, most civet today is synthetic. Most musk certainly is.

    Even when it's not, I don't think it's inhumane to harvest certain glandular secretions while an animal is alive. I mean, dogs have anal glands which have to be expressed, and I think that certain deers have their civet harvested in a similar way. But I could be wrong.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Someone said the civet glads were scraped - which assumed dissection. Even if they're alive, I'd guess that they keep them trapped in cages all their lives as gland factories. Can't imagine Yves running around the jungle looking for civets every time he wants to produce a new bottle!

    In this case I hope it's synthetic!

    Quote Originally Posted by tvlampboy
    If I remember correctly, most civet today is synthetic. Most musk certainly is.

    Even when it's not, I don't think it's inhumane to harvest certain glandular secretions while an animal is alive. I mean, dogs have anal glands which have to be expressed, and I think that certain deers have their civet harvested in a similar way. But I could be wrong.
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  38. #38

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by tvlampboy
    If I remember correctly, most civet today is synthetic. Most musk certainly is.

    Even when it's not, I don't think it's inhumane to harvest certain glandular secretions while an animal is alive. I mean, dogs have anal glands which have to be expressed, and I think that certain deers have their civet harvested in a similar way. But I could be wrong.
    tvlampboy,

    You're correct that most civet used today is synthetic as are most musks. However, you are confusing the civet cat with the musk deer. Certain musk deer are harvested for their musk sacs, which can be removed with little pain to the animal.

    The process of attaining real civet is very painful and traumatic to the animal, a cat-like arboreal creature. In order to produce high levels of civet for harvesting, the Civet Cat (Viverra Civeta) is kept for years in a small cramped cage, feed copious amounts of raw meat and little else, and is regularly tormented to increase stress levels which aid in the production of more glandular secretions from the perineal glands, which are then periodically scrapped to remove the yellow waxy secretions we call civet. This process can go on for up to a numbers of years for any one cat at the rate of anywhere from two to four scappings per week. It's very cruel and very painful to the animal.

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 17th October 2006 at 05:15 PM.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    This is the best title for a thread I've ever seen!

    But I'm afraid, I've never got pee out of Kouros, just cloves and honey...

  40. #40

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by lunarpanic
    But I'm afraid, I've never got pee out of Kouros, just cloves and honey...
    You're not squeezing hard enough.

  41. #41

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by lunarpanic
    But I'm afraid, I've never got pee out of Kouros, just cloves and honey...
    That's exactly what I smell! (adding Mirrh..)

  42. #42
    Serpent
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    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by RTbar
    i think it's the honey
    RTbar is correct. The phenylacetic acid that provides Kouros' honey note is what produces the urine smell. The same honey ingredient gives Lutens' Miel de Bois, another notorious "urine" scent, the same sweet pee smell. Civet smells like feces, not urine. Any one-year-old can tell you pee and poo smell different.

  43. #43

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpent
    RTbar is correct. The phenylacetic acid that provides Kouros' honey note is what produces the urine smell. The same honey ingredient gives Lutens' Miel de Bois, another notorious "urine" scent, the same sweet pee smell. Civet smells like feces, not urine. Any one-year-old can tell you pee and poo smell different.

    Damn.............

    Still one of the sharpest cats I ever met!


    For the record (And I sound like a broken record, I know....) :

    All I've ever gotten outta Kouros is some dry woods (which is kinda cool), some cloves, and that damn honey note which, thankfully, subsides after some time.


    It doesn't really smell all that nasty to me.........

    YMMV.


  44. #44

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpent
    Any one-year-old can tell you pee and poo smell different.
    Huh huh huh, huh huh, huh - he said pee and poo!

    And for the record, I don't think Kouros is nasty, I just think it kind of smells like sugary pee, at least when you use a full spray and don't smear it around to thin out the concentration of it in one spot.
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  45. #45

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR
    Huh huh huh, huh huh, huh - he said pee and poo!

    And for the record, I don't think Kouros is nasty, I just think it kind of smells like sugary pee, at least when you use a full spray and don't smear it around to thin out the concentration of it in one spot.
    So sugary pee is not nasty?

    Other things that are not nasty:
    • Spicy phlegm
    • Creamy stomach acid
    • Sparkling (carbonated) perspiration
    • Athelete's foot a la mode
    Sorry, couldn't resist.
    There is no Nose....

  46. #46

    Smile Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    Y'all just nasty.

    Peggy: "Right now, we have to get to the mental institution. Something terrible has happened."
    Latrelle: "What?"
    Peggy: "Brother Boy has tried to kill himself. He jumped out of his bedroom window."
    Latrelle: "Isn't he only on the second floor?"
    Peggy: "Yes, but he hit his head on a lawn gnome."
    Fr. Sordid Lives: The Series
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    "Live, live, live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death."
    Auntie Mame
    [/B]

  47. #47

    Default Re: Why does Kouros smell like pee pee?

    I dont' get the urine smell if that's what you're referring to. I used to wear this fragrance when it first came out and have enjoyed it. They may have altered the formula? I haven't smelled it recently so I don't know.
    "A great perfume is a work of art, it can lift our days, haunt our nights and create the milestones of our memories. Fragrance is liquid emotion. And that never goes out of fashion. " MICHAEL EDWARDS

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