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  1. #1

    Default Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    I read some comments on the "favorite niche house" thread and instead of commenting there I decided to start a new thread.

    <People slamming Creed for talking about its clients> - I see this mentioned a lot, but people dont realise that Creeds perfume origins were as a custom fragrance house and even today they are probably the biggest in the custom fragrance creation business even though other houses create fragrances for clients too. Any article discussing Creed will probably begin with their history quoting the famous clients they have created perfumes for.

    Penhaligons has a similar write up too: http://www.aedes.com/brand.php?brand_id=72&cat_id=1

    Chanel, with its No. 5, has exploited its association with Marilyn Monroe more than Creed ever has with its entire line. Before I got into fragrances, I always used to hear from my female friends as to how the most chic women of Hollywood favored Chanel.

    Bond no. 9 uses NYC as a draw. And boy do they talk about nyc and how they want to "perfume it up and at the same time pay homage to it" in all of their articles. Considering the global draw of NYC, thats a large market segment to promote to and capitalize on. Brooklyn's next (2007).

    I am sure that most of us here on Basenotes aren't easily swayed by advertising hooks like fancy past clientele lists (Creed), promises of bottom-less pits of sums of money and creative freedom for famous perfumers (Frederic Malle), moroccan/middle-eastern fairtytale stories wrapped in perfumes (Serge Lutens), or the essence of Arabia or NYC all bottled up for you (Montale/Bond No.9). But even niche houses like a bit of promotion and brand awareness, and theres nothing wrong with that.
    Last edited by zztopp; 5th November 2006 at 09:04 AM.
    -

  2. #2

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    It's just that I find Creed's aristocratic pretentions to exclusivity and taste and the monotonous litany of their non-existing advertising, i.e. P.R. placements which always contain exactly the same tired old braggadocio, particularly jarring. As, was it narcus?, said, Creed is no longer either niche or in any way exclusive (believe me, perfume you can buy in friggin' Kassel, Northern Hesse , and at a mega chain like "Douglas" is not exclusive). I could care less as long as they make great perfumes. But I do feel much more comfortable with the relative understatement of a Villoresi, not that they don't get their PR plugs. I grant you that the success of a perfume house, especially niches, is based no less on the quality of its line than on the "story" that goes with it, which is surly no less of an illusion than the olfactory imagery it creates. After all, most people are buying a fantasy image of and for themselves in the act of acquiring perfume. The marketing will often be far more impotant than the actual scent.

    btw: when are they going to update Olivier Creed's picture on the cards? Did they have 20,000,000 printed at discount in 1975 and have to use them all up now? Someone tell him he looks like Günther Netzer, for God's sake (it's not a good thing)
    http://www.boeckler.org/images/netzer.jpg - Netzer
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matičre/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénčtrent le verre.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life
    As, was it narcus?, said, Creed is no longer either niche or in any way exclusive (believe me, perfume you can buy in friggin' Kassel, Northern Hesse , and at a mega chain like "Douglas" is not exclusive). I could care less as long as they make great perfumes.

    btw: when are they going to update Olivier Creed's picture on the cards? Did they have 20,000,000 printed at discount in 1975 and have to use them all up now? Someone tell him he looks like Günther Netzer, for God's sake (it's not a good thing)
    http://www.boeckler.org/images/netzer.jpg - Netzer
    I dont know what the situation in Germany is, but as far as I know, no drugstore or supermarket in UK, France, Italy and Switzerland(?) is selling Creed.

    And thats the first time I have seen that pic of Olivier Creed - most of the my bottles contain the following pic of him:
    http://www.cale.it/creed/creed/olivier_creed_mini.jpg
    -

  4. #4

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Personally, I think Creed have made one or two exceptional fragrances (Angelique Encens is beyond words in its beauty) and a whole lot of over-priced schlock with an alien metallic accord. But then zz, you and I wouldn't agree on this - after all, I'll defend Serge Lutens even for his mistakes whereas you don't see eye to eye with his stuff. Horses for courses; noses for posies.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by leopoldo
    Personally, I think Creed have made one or two exceptional fragrances (Angelique Encens is beyond words in its beauty) and a whole lot of over-priced schlock with an alien metallic accord. But then zz, you and I wouldn't agree on this - after all, I'll defend Serge Lutens even for his mistakes whereas you don't see eye to eye with his stuff. Horses for courses; noses for posies.
    I so agree, Leo! Cheers!
    "Wovon man nicht lesen kann, darüber muss man schreiben."

  6. #6

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    And thats the first time I have seen that pic of Olivier Creed - most of the my bottles contain the following pic of him:
    http://www.cale.it/creed/creed/olivier_creed_mini.jpg

    The picture I linked to is G. Netzer
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matičre/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénčtrent le verre.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by leopoldo
    Personally, I think Creed have made one or two exceptional fragrances (Angelique Encens is beyond words in its beauty) and a whole lot of over-priced schlock with an alien metallic accord. But then zz, you and I wouldn't agree on this - after all, I'll defend Serge Lutens even for his mistakes whereas you don't see eye to eye with his stuff. Horses for courses; noses for posies.
    Thats not what this thread is about. Criticisms of fragrances are fine. No one expects every house or every fragrance released to please everyone.
    -

  8. #8

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    The other day I stopped in Bergdorf-Goodman's Men's Store, which has a lackluster fragrance department (unlike the women's store across the street), though fairly heavy on Creed, a house unrepresented in my collection. With time to kill I decided to test a few samples. I began eyeing the bottles spread on the counter when I was approached by one of the notoriously snarky and arrogant salesmen. (Another reason to prefer the women's store, where they're unfailingly pleasant. . .and where you can have "The JAR Experience.")

    Salesman: Can I help you?
    Me: No, thank you, I'm just having a look at what you have of the Creed line.
    Salesman: What are you looking for?
    Me: Nothing in particular, I'm really just looking; I don't know the Creeds particularly well and want to see the range.
    Salesman (with eyeroll): This will help you decide.

    At which point he produces a sheet of paper with a grid containing a list of the Creed line with the celebrity users for each scent. Now, though I'm relatively new to fragrances, I have seen enough individual references to the Creed-Cary Grant, David Bowie, etc. etc., connection, but never anything quite like this - the whole celeb gang on one convenient chart. By now I'm starting to feel as if I've wandered into either the pages of People mag or even worse, In Style ("You, Too, Can Have Britney's Eyelashes!").

    Me (a little perversely): How will this help me decide?
    Salesman (scowling): You can see what personalities are attracted to what scents!

    I try a few strips, carefully noting whether my preferences are more attuned to those of Victoria Beckham or Georges Braque. At one point I pick up one of the testers and notice that - gasp! - no celeb is identified as a user.

    Me: Didn't any celebrity like this scent?
    Salesman: What are you talking about?
    Me: Check the grid. No one seems to prefer this one.

    Salesman pulls the sheet away from me, sees I'm right, glares, and storms off, clearly deeming me unworthy.

    I certainly don't object to the principle of using celebrity endorsements - I work in a business (publishing) where it's standard operating procedure - but this sort of approach is really geared to anxious teenagers, not the clientele of a high-end store.
    Last edited by Morgan Creek; 5th November 2006 at 11:55 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Creek
    ....Salesman pulls the sheet away from me, sees I'm right, glares, and storms off, clearly deeming me unworthy.
    So good, I read it twice!
    This is lucky Sunday. Welcome, Morgan Creek!
    Last edited by narcus; 5th November 2006 at 02:27 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Let's face it -- only neophytes with no taste of their own are going to be swayed by what this famous person or that wore this scent or that.

    I mean, who freakin' CARES? I mean, it's marginally interesting to me that both Bogart and Churchill wore (vintage) Tabaróme, but I didn't know that either man had worn it until long after I had "discovered" Tabaróme for myself. If anything, knowing this fact prior to my wearing Tabaróme the first time would not have swayed me. (I mean, who wants to smell like a couple of grumpy, socialite alcoholics on either side of the Big Pond?)

    I still love my Bois de Portugal FOR WHAT IT IS, not because that terrible actor, Kevin Costner, ostensibly likes it, too.

    I read somewhere once that Goebbels wore Farina Eau de Cologne. Goebbel was a monster, yes, but that fact (and the scent connection) makes not one whit of difference in my decision to enjoy Farina EdC from time to time.

    If Creed wants to keep up this senseless line of advertising, well, the company has that right. I just think it's irrelevant and even tasteless, though. Pity, as I'm a huge fan of almost each and every Creed juice.
    Last edited by tvlampboy; 6th November 2006 at 02:10 PM.

    Peggy: "Right now, we have to get to the mental institution. Something terrible has happened."
    Latrelle: "What?"
    Peggy: "Brother Boy has tried to kill himself. He jumped out of his bedroom window."
    Latrelle: "Isn't he only on the second floor?"
    Peggy: "Yes, but he hit his head on a lawn gnome."
    Fr. Sordid Lives: The Series
    *****
    "Live, live, live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death."
    Auntie Mame
    [/B]

  11. #11

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    . . . I am sure that most of us here on Basenotes aren't easily swayed by advertising hooks like fancy past clientele lists (Creed), promises of bottom-less pits of sums of money and creative freedom for famous perfumers (Frederic Malle), moroccan/middle-eastern fairtytale stories wrapped in perfumes (Serge Lutens), or the essence of Arabia or NYC all bottled up for you (Montale/Bond No.9). But even niche houses like a bit of promotion and brand awareness, and theres nothing wrong with that.
    The big difference is that with the other designers/niche houses, it's the fragrances that get most of the attention. If you want proof of that, try to imagine someone starting a similar thread about Serge Lutens. In fact, if you do a search, I am pretty sure you'll find that hardly anyone really gives a damn about Serge Lutens's "Moroccan/middle-eastern fairtales", at least not to the extent that Creed heads seemed obssessed with Creed's supposed impressive associations with "stars" and royalty. When I hear about these associations brought up in any context, I have a sneaking suspicion that such people are also readers of The Star and The National Enquirer, just dying to find out the lastest installment on Jen and Vince or Angelina and Brad. In fact, I am sure they could tell us what Creed creation Jen and Vince and Angelina and Brad actually wear. It's all soooo "Access Hollywood".

    I've posted countless times on this before. As I see it, the problem with this obsession is not that Creed heads, for the most part, tend to get off on Creed's star and royalty cache--quite sad in and of itself--but that the fragrances themselves hardly ever get discussed. I mean really discussed. Again, do a Creed search search and out of all the countless threads on Creed, you'll rarely find a decent discussion of the fragrances in proportion to all the rest of the anxiety, hype, misinformation, idolatry, etc, blah, blah, blah, you'll find about Creed. This is a specific phenomenon to Creed itself. No other designer of niche house generates anything even remotely comparable.

    Finally, what I find most interesting about Creed as a house is how very little they actually say about their products and their associations in comparison to what others are willing to claim for them. Journalist are the worst. The might as well be reading a brief prepared by Creed. Wait a moment, in hindsight, they always are.

    It seems to me that the Creed family sits back and watches all this free publicity--some of which they could have never dreamed up themselves in their wildest dreams--working its magic with royalty and star wannabees with sheer glee, and dance with the same glee to the background "chechink" of the the cash registers open and closing one more time again.

    In many ways, I find this post and other similar posts about Creed's impressive heritage are like the sales assistant handing Morgan Creek a list of Creed celebrity users and saying this should be enough. Well, for me, at least, it's not enough.

    I've challenged Creed heads before to say something about Creed fragrances that doesn't sound like a plug for Creed or like one of their publicity blurbs. Mostly every time I open a thread on Creed, I'm disappointed. This thread is no exception. "So what?", indeed.

    scentemental

    P.S. Some Creed fragrances I'd really like to see discussed at length and in depth: Angelique Encens, Santal Impérial, and Vintage Tabarôme.

    Last edited by scentemental; 5th November 2006 at 04:22 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tvlampboy
    I still love my Bois de Portugal FOR WHAT IT IS, not because that terrible actor (Kevin Costner) happens to like it, too.
    I love your Bois de Portugal also, and Costner more than before - cheers!
    Please tell me, what does Heath Ledger wear? And Camilla?
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  13. #13

    Smile Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Heath Ledger wears Jake Gyllenhaal's sweat mixed with Chaps, I'm sure.

    Camilla, the inbred old mare, must be a die-hard fan of A*men blended with Alien mixed with Poison. (I say bring back the guillotine -- what's good enough for Marie Antoinette is good enough for all the "royals" -- Camilla chief among them. Let her wear perfume once more before she mounts the block.)

    Peggy: "Right now, we have to get to the mental institution. Something terrible has happened."
    Latrelle: "What?"
    Peggy: "Brother Boy has tried to kill himself. He jumped out of his bedroom window."
    Latrelle: "Isn't he only on the second floor?"
    Peggy: "Yes, but he hit his head on a lawn gnome."
    Fr. Sordid Lives: The Series
    *****
    "Live, live, live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death."
    Auntie Mame
    [/B]

  14. #14

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    The big difference is that with the other designers/niche houses, it's the fragrances that get most of the attention. If you want proof of that, try to imagine someone starting a similar thread about Serge Lutens. In fact, if you do a search, I am pretty sure you'll find that hardly anyone really gives a damn about Serge Lutens's "Moroccan/middle-eastern fairtales", at least not to the extent that Creed heads seemed obssessed with Creed's supposed impressive associations with "stars" and royalty. When I hear about these associations brought up in any context, I have a sneaking suspicion that such people are also readers of The Star and The National Enquirer, just dying to find out the lastest installment on Jen and Vince or Angelina and Brad. In fact, I am sure they could tell us what Creed creation Jen and Vince and Angelina and Brad actually wear. It's all soooo "Access Hollywood".

    I've posted countless times on this before. As I see it, the problem with this obsession is not that Creed heads, for the most part, tend to get off on Creed's star and royalty cache--quite sad in and of itself--but that the fragrances themselves hardly ever get discussed. I mean really discussed. Again, do a Creed search search and out of all the countless threads on Creed, you'll rarely find a decent discussion of the fragrances in proportion to all the rest of the anxiety, hype, misinformation, idolatry, etc, blah, blah, blah, you'll find about Creed. This is a specific phenomenon to Creed itself. No other designer of niche house generates anything even remotely comparable.

    Finally, what I find most interesting about Creed as a house is how very little they actually say about their products and their associations in comparison to what others are willing to claim for them. Journalist are the worst. The might as well be reading a brief prepared by Creed. Wait a moment, in hindsight, they always are.

    It seems to me that the Creed family sits back and watches all this free publicity--some of which they could have never dreamed up themselves in their wildest dreams--working its magic with royalty and star wannabees with sheer glee, and dance with the same glee to the background "chechink" of the the cash registers open and closing one more time again.

    In many ways, I find this post and other similar posts about Creed's impressive heritage are like the sales assistant handing Morgan Creek a list of Creed celebrity users and saying this should be enough. Well, for me, at least, it's not enough.

    I've challenged Creed heads before to say something about Creed fragrances that doesn't sound like a plug for Creed or like one of their publicity blurbs. Mostly every time I open a thread on Creed, I'm disappointed. This thread is no exception. "So what?", indeed.

    scentemental

    P.S. Some Creed fragrances I'd really like to see discussed at length and in depth: Angelique Encens, Santal Impérial, and Vintage Tabarôme.

    I am not sure this is entirely fair. I know you have been around here for much longer than I have but I see a fair amount of genuine discussion about creed frags. There is also some idiotic hero-worship, but this is pretty easy to ignore. Recently most creed threads have been about spotting fakes.

    The marketing of creeds in this country (the UK) is non-existent.
    I agree that the handing out of lists of celeb users to customers is stupid, but the S.A.s at almost every non-specialist shop I have used are frankly rubbish and this is just another example of that. It is poor sales technique more than anything. From creeds point of view, assuming the celebs in question have used the frags, I can see how they arrive at this strategy. Basically, it is inexpensive. I would add to this that I recently visited the Creed HQ main shop in paris and it is a surprisingly small operation away from the main shoping streets and half the shop is full of clothing! This company is not as big as you think.

    I would rather discuss the frags too. I resampled Santal Imperial recently and realised that the fist tester I tried was definitely a bit off. This frag is awesome. The santal note is very clear natural and sharp from about ten minutes after application and persisits for hours in a beautiful tonka and ambergris base. The development is minimal after the santal comes in, pretty linear. Be warned, it is easy to dismiss this frag as a nothing frag in the first ten minutes before the heavy sandalwood begins to evapourate (and this cannot have helped its sales). I bought a bottle, against the advice of a foolish sales rep who was trying to push original santal on me, even after I said I didn't like it.

    Vintage tabarome......
    ....... actually I think this thread is not to discuss fragrances but to give a big who-cares to the marketing; I think negative discussion of the marketing is buying in to the myth just as much as hero-worship.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  15. #15

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    I know what Creed threads are. Some I like, others may find rest in BN Archives. But can someone more enlightened tell me what Creed heads are? I read that twice now. Somehow that word doesn't sound very discerning, or friendly. I may be wrong.
    Last edited by narcus; 5th November 2006 at 06:46 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus
    I know what Creed threads are. Some I like, others may find rest in BN Archives. But can someone more enlightened tell me what Creed heads are? I read that twice now. Somehow that word doesn't sound very discerning, or friendly. I may be wrong.
    heads = slang for fans (fanatics).
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  17. #17

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life
    It's just that I find Creed's aristocratic pretentions to exclusivity and taste and the monotonous litany of their non-existing advertising, i.e. P.R. placements which always contain exactly the same tired old braggadocio, particularly jarring.
    This is it exactly. I just hate their official position of "not advertising", when clearly they do, just not in the most usual and identifiable ways.
    "Advertising? Heavens no! The hallowed house of Creed, preferred by kings and queens and Cary Grant, has no need for such base machinations and shameless self-promotion, when our exclusive all-natural ingedients and vaunted list of elite clients, such as kings and queens and Cary Grant, achieve all the notoriety necessary. Did I mention the kings and queens and Cary Grant?"

    As ZZtop notes, lots of houses build thier brand name through association (is there nay other way to market?), I just can't stand the yellow-bellied hypocrisy of Creed's stance that they are "too good" for "that kind of thing" while they do it more persistently than anyone.
    Last edited by Joel_Cairo; 6th November 2006 at 04:01 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental


    It's all soooo "Access Hollywood".

    I've posted countless times on this before. As I see it, the problem with this obsession is not that Creed heads, for the most part, tend to get off on Creed's star and royalty cache--quite sad in and of itself--but that the fragrances themselves hardly ever get discussed. I mean really discussed. Again, do a Creed search search and out of all the countless threads on Creed, you'll rarely find a decent discussion of the fragrances in proportion to all the rest of the anxiety, hype, misinformation, idolatry, etc, blah, blah, blah, you'll find about Creed. This is a specific phenomenon to Creed itself. No other designer of niche house generates anything even remotely comparable.

    Finally, what I find most interesting about Creed as a house is how very little they actually say about their products and their associations in comparison to what others are willing to claim for them. Journalist are the worst. The might as well be reading a brief prepared by Creed. Wait a moment, in hindsight, they always are.

    It seems to me that the Creed family sits back and watches all this free publicity--some of which they could have never dreamed up themselves in their wildest dreams--working its magic with royalty and star wannabees with sheer glee, and dance with the same glee to the background "chechink" of the the cash registers open and closing one more time again.

    In many ways, I find this post and other similar posts about Creed's impressive heritage are like the sales assistant handing Morgan Creek a list of Creed celebrity users and saying this should be enough. Well, for me, at least, it's not enough.

    I've challenged Creed heads before to say something about Creed fragrances that doesn't sound like a plug for Creed or like one of their publicity blurbs. Mostly every time I open a thread on Creed, I'm disappointed. This thread is no exception. "So what?", indeed.

    scentemental

    P.S. Some Creed fragrances I'd really like to see discussed at length and in depth: Angelique Encens, Santal Impérial, and Vintage Tabarôme.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but Basenotes is the only site where this is the case. No other blog or perfume site has this level of celeb discussion. Well from what I have seen, no other perfume blog/site discusses Creed as much too.

    Perhaps this has to do with the fact that when someone looks up most of the Creeds in the basenotes directory, they are met with a statement saying that "This is favored by so-and-so actor/actress". It can have an affect on a "newbie" and thus lead to questions and threads about the said perfume on the forums. Compare the descriptions of Millesime Imperial on basenotes with those at Neiman-Marcus for example. I agree that bringing out a celeb list is a bad way to promote a house - but I have never encountered that at the local Saks or the Neiman-Marcus stores that I have visited in Texas and Florida (they werent that knowledgeable too)

    Also, I find your statement stating that my original thread being about random Creed celeb worship quite unfair - its actually about moving on from the celeb promotion, while comparing it with promotions that other houses do, and finally getting over it once and for all. I agree that more constructive discussion about the fragrances themselves would be most welcome.

    And if I an not mistaken, over the past few months, the most annoying Creed threads havent been Celeb discussions - they have been about whether their "Greed Frisky Dweeb" is authentic or not, and where they can buy authentic or low-priced Creed.

    Also, horror of horrors, some people have even started threads discussing how they feel about Millesime Imperial and Green Irish Tweed after purschasing them...its not everyday you see that, do you ?
    -

  19. #19

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder
    I am not sure this is entirely fair. I know you have been around here for much longer than I have but I see a fair amount of genuine discussion about creed frags. There is also some idiotic hero-worship, but this is pretty easy to ignore. Recently most creed threads have been about spotting fakes.
    Yeah sure, but I am talking about quality discusion, proportion, and perspective, posts more like your account of what you find noteworthy about Santal Imperial.

    Choosing to ignore the "idiotic hero-worship" is one option, but I have to admit, the "idiotic hero-worship" has abated significantly since many of us have chosen not to ignore exercising the option to point it out. A search of many of the Creed threads, especially when you weren't around, should easily convince you of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder
    . . . This company is not as big as you think . . .
    Actually, I am under no illusion as to how big the company is, or in fact, how significant it is outside of Basenotes. I have also made the point frequently, in all my reading on fragrances and fragrance history, Creed hardly ever ranks a mention.

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder
    . . . actually I think this thread is not to discuss fragrances but to give a big
    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder
    who-cares to the marketing . . .

    I thought my whole post was about the fact that I particularly don't care for their marketing and the constant unproductive preoccupation with it and especially with celebrity worship, and I expressed my reasons as to why. I did lead up to and finish with ""So what?", indeed."

    scentemental

  20. #20

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    Correct me if I am wrong, but Basenotes is the only site where this is the case. No other blog or perfume site has this level of celeb discussion. Well from what I have seen, no other perfume blog/site discusses Creed as much too.
    Absolutely correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    Perhaps this has to do with the fact that when someone looks up most of the Creeds in the basenotes directory, they are met with a statement saying that "This is favored by so-and-so actor/actress". It can have an affect on a "newbie" and thus lead to questions and threads about the said perfume on the forums. Compare the descriptions of Millesime Imperial on basenotes with those at Neiman-Marcus for example. I agree that bringing out a celeb list is a bad way to promote a house - but I have never encountered that at the local Saks or the Neiman-Marcus stores that I have visited in Texas and Florida (they werent that knowledgeable too).
    Excellent observation zztopp. I think a lot of newbies take their cue from the general discussion and buzz about something, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the reviews along the lines you pointed out predisposed them toward thinking of Creeds in a certain way. I think most people eventually make up their own mind on things, but the persistance of the nature of the discussions on Creed suggests to me, at least, that you're definitely on to something here.

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    Also, I find your statement stating that my original thread being about random Creed celeb worship quite unfair - its actually about moving on from the celeb promotion, while comparing it with promotions that other houses do, and finally getting over it once and for all. I agree that more constructive discussion about the fragrances themselves would be most welcome.
    I don't really see how it's "unfair". I was really taking my cue from the last prompt in your initial post "But even niche houses like a bit of promotion and brand awareness, and theres nothing wrong with that." I would agree with you, but I was trying to make the point that it's not that simple with Creed. It's clear now that you do want move on to a "more constructive discussion", but I really wasn't sure that was the case with your initial post.

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    And if I am not mistaken, over the past few months, the most annoying Creed threads havent been Celeb discussions - they have been about whether their "Greed Frisky Dweeb" is authentic or not, and where they can buy authentic or low-priced Creed.
    No, unfortunately, you're not mistaken, but I think the fact that there haven't been "celeb discussions" is because the unabashed unself-conscious hero worship of Creed (and I am not talking about the respect for their individual fragrances, that's a different issue) is hopefully a thing of the past. I think the trauma of getting a fake Creed is proportionate to the expectation that authentic Creeds somehow have some kind of talismanic quality to them, an expectation that you rightly surmise might be due to the kind of general buzz that precedes Creeds even before someone has tried them. The other day I received a fake bottle of Chanel No. 19 EDP via ebay. I can't say I was at all traumatized; I've accepted that it's the way of the world. I simply contacted the seller informed of how and why the bottle, packaging, and juice were fake, and she was happy to return my money. Of course, I checked in the first place that she was a regular seller of Chanel, and, second, that she had excellent feedback with no issues of fakes. I would suggest if there's a general anxiety over buying Creeds that anxiety can be assuaged and even circumvented by judicious purchasing on ebay and by exclusively purchasing Creeds from trusted established e-retailers. I am happy to direct novice buyers in the right direction in this regard. A personal message to me will suffice, and I will be more than happy to share my experiences with buying quality, "authentic" Creeds both through ebay and online.

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    Also, horror of horrors, some people have even started threads discussing how they feel about Millesime Imperial and Green Irish Tweed after purschasing them...its not everyday you see that, do you ?
    I think that's healthy, but like my friend pluran, I tend to personally--call it a temperamental thing--find accounts in which someone tells us how disappointed or how much they hate a particular fragrance not only uninformative, but uninteresting. I much prefer positive evaluations; they tend more balanced and nuanced and you always see the fragrance differently. Ambivalent reviews can also interesting and informative in this regard.

    If I misread your initial intentions, please forgive me for that. It's turned out to be a productive and interesting thread, and I thank you for that.

    scentemental


    Last edited by scentemental; 6th November 2006 at 12:38 AM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    I don't understand why it is (for some people) so irritating about Creed using celebs names to promote some of their frags. Designers do this all the time, don't they? I don't believe most people will buy/wear a frag if they don't like the scent regardless of its connection to famous people. It can promote a frag in a way that it will arouse my curiosity or attention so that the next time I go to a perfumery I may check this 'Churchill' frag esp. if I hold the person associated with it in high esteem. It is more likely a product associated with a famous name will somehow stuck in my mind. No way I'll buy it if I don't like it though - unless I'm a collector perhaps. And yes, I'm sure this strategy helps the sales of many frags, it draws more people to them and so more people will buy them esp. those all round, generic and inoffensive.

    At least Creed don't create new frags and slap Paris Hilton, Naomi Campell, Salvador Dali.. straightaway on the bottle.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    paraphrasing tvlampboy" "..Churchill - hardly a hero..."
    While we're discussing celebs more than actual fragrances on this thread - what planet do you come from? If Churchill wasn't a hero - and perhaps the most heroic figure of the last millennium, let alone of the 20th century - then who on Earth is - or was, pray tell?

  23. #23

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental

    If I misread your initial intentions, please forgive me for that. It's turned out to be a productive thread and interesting thread, and I thank you for that.

    scentemental
    No need for that Scentemental. You (and other Basenoters) have provided your indepth insight to the thread which makes for great and informative reading and contributes to the discussion. Thanks.
    -

  24. #24

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    I am sure that most of us here on Basenotes aren't easily swayed by advertising hooks[...]
    No, of course we're not! Who allows their behavior to be affected by advertising, after all? No one I've asked.

    In all seriousness I'd guess Basenoters are more swayed by perfume advertising (and marketing posture) than most folks, merely because we're specifically interested in fragrances and therefore aware of the players and their various images. It might be impossible to avoid identifying with some houses more than others, at least at some level. This is not to say the images we do or don't identify with are completely controlled by advertising and public relations, but they must play a role, no?
    Last edited by d4; 5th November 2006 at 11:53 PM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental
    Yeah sure, but I am talking about quality discusion, proportion, and perspective, posts more like your account of what you find noteworthy about Santal Imperial.

    Choosing to ignore the "idiotic hero-worship" is one option, but I have to admit, the "idiotic hero-worship" has abated significantly since many of us have chosen not to ignore exercising the option to point it out. A search of many of the Creed threads, especially when you weren't around, should easily convince you of this.


    Actually, I am under no illusion as to how big the company is, or in fact, how significant it is outside of Basenotes. I have also made the point frequently, in all my reading on fragrances and fragrance history, Creed hardly ever ranks a mention.


    I thought my whole post was about the fact that I particularly don't care for their marketing and the constant unproductive preoccupation with it and especially with celebrity worship, and I expressed my reasons as to why. I did lead up to and finish with ""So what?", indeed."

    scentemental
    I suppose I just don't get why it irritates people so much. As long as they keep making my favourites, I really don't care how they market themselves.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  26. #26

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    It doesn't irritate me too much anymore. I now try to test fragrances without forming any opinions about it beforehand (this is actually much harder than it seems). The fact that "so and so" wears this doesn't affect me. Actually I lie. I don't want to wear Unforgivable just because P Diddy has his name on it. I might end up getting it still as it is a cheaper alternative to MI

    I have to admit, though, that when I first came to basenotes, I had no idea what Creed was and for a while, I thought it was the "best" house out there and was the house of houses. That was only due to my naivity, lack of fragrance education, and inexperience with the many houses out there. It wasn't long after before I began to think that Creed was ONLY hype and I grew a dislike towards it and didn't give it's fragrances even the smallest chance. Now, a year later, I'd say my experience with fragrances and what's offered out there is much higher and I am finally going back to my Creeds with a close-to-blank-slate to review them for what they are and not what people tell me they're supposed to be.

    I say this next thing with no authority whatsoever so please don't hang me It's in my belief that many of us here at Basenotes are somewhat elitist when it comes to fragrances and we are predisposed to dislike certain fragrances. For example, did ANY of us go crazy over the David Beckam fragrance? For the most part, NO. I think that many of us are predisposed to disliking celebrity fragrances - and that is exactly what Creed is doing. They name drop to sell their fragrances. "So and so wears this fragrance. Don't you want to be JUST like them? Wear this fragrance."

    I don't really give a crap about who wears this or who wears that. All that matters is that I can wear it well.
    Last edited by myaccolades; 6th November 2006 at 03:25 AM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: So what ?

    Before I started researching Basenotes I had never even heard of Creed, much less their infamous advertising. Even now that I would pay more attention if I actually saw a Creed ad, they dont seem that common. So what.

    I bathed in the same liquid today that some of the most powerful people in history have drank...."gasp!".....water. Then I drank some myself (from a different source, ha ha) wonder where that water has been through the ages....

    dnagit martha....not in the pool again!

    Pretty laughable. Pleasures are rare enough in this world without getting all fixated on the what where and why bs of it.

    Have a great day!
    Last edited by Bad_Dawg; 6th November 2006 at 05:55 AM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    I've been lurking around here for a little while, reading this, discovering that. I had never even heard of Creed before coming here, and it was the hype on here (not the celebrity ties) that caused me to go to Neiman-Marcus to see what the fuss was about.

    The salesman I dealt with seemed somewhat knowledgable and was very friendly, not the least bit snotty. He did show me a piece of paper, but it had notes about the fragrances, not celebrity names on it. He did mention Cary Grant and Churchhill, but in a most unassuming way. I didn't feel it was any kind of hard sell. Although perhaps he was just a good salesman. He also was willing to run to the back and grab a sample for me, instead of just saying "we're out" when I asked for one. So I'm inclined to say the experience was good.

    I'm a newbie when it comes to evaluation, so I couldn't tell you much besides I liked some and not others. But which celebrity wears what doesn't have much sway with me, to be honest, and it wouldn't really cause me buy or wear any particular brand. And my Neiman-Marcus experience seemed to show that Creed does seem to value the status of celebrity users, but I haven't seen too much in particular to say they make it a hard sell.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    It took me a long time to really get interested in Creed. I had been frequenting another perfume board for some time in which Creed was bashed regularly. The posters there were more devoted to classics that had powerful, long-reaching sillage, and heavy aldehydes and powder (such as Guerlain), so I never learned anything about Creed there. And, yes, I was a bit turned-off by Creed's celebrity name-dropping (especially of modern-day "stars"). I had passed by the Creed tables frequently at NM, but the line is obviously so big, I didn't know where to start. But, I confess, it was one of those flowery, much-derided descriptions from Olivier Creed (to Allure magazine, about the upcoming release of Original Santal) that caught my interest and made me dare ASK.

    Eventually I learned that a SA is always present in NM who works directly for Creed, not for the store. It's important to find out who that person is. As the previous post mentioned, you'll oftentimes be shown a sheet which lists all of the scents by names, categories and notes, and even be given a copy to take home. I also have come to know another SA (a Neiman employee) very well, and she will always help me when the Creed representative is not around. Between the two of them, I have more sample vials than I know what to do with (plus a gold and white Creed gift box to keep them in). They'll always talk to me about upcoming Creed releases, and one of them even approached me with the Feuille Verte tester and a sales pitch for their one remaining bottle of the scent, on a day when I wasn't even looking for it. Creed is a far more interesting line to explore once you've found knowledgable, friendly and professional sales people to keep coming to, and such help will rarely use celebrity names to sell the product to you.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Hate to sway even slightly off-topic here, but someone pointed out in an earlier post that I might have implied that Winston Churchill was not heroic. I have since modified the post in question. (I still don't like Tabaróme because of anyone famous who might have worn it, though -- oh, and I still think that Kevin Costner couldn't act his way out of a shoebox.)

    Peggy: "Right now, we have to get to the mental institution. Something terrible has happened."
    Latrelle: "What?"
    Peggy: "Brother Boy has tried to kill himself. He jumped out of his bedroom window."
    Latrelle: "Isn't he only on the second floor?"
    Peggy: "Yes, but he hit his head on a lawn gnome."
    Fr. Sordid Lives: The Series
    *****
    "Live, live, live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death."
    Auntie Mame
    [/B]

  31. #31

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tigers1901
    Eventually I learned that a SA is always present in NM who works directly for Creed, not for the store. It's important to find out who that person is.
    I didnt know this - I didnt find the SA's at Saks to be very informative, but Neiman-Marcus might be a different case.
    -

  32. #32

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    With NM, they keep a notebook with pages on each customer who's purchased Creed. They write down dates and notes for each time you've bought and each time the SA has given or mailed you samples. They even keep note of what your opinions may be of new launches. The SA will suggest that, even when you're just passing through the mall, to stop by the counter so that they can note that they've spoken to you again. It's important that they keep the pages up to date, because periodically Creed stops by to "check the books" on their associates.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tvlampboy
    -- oh, and I still think that Kevin Costner couldn't act his way out of a shoebox.)
    That's fine with me, we can't always agree on everything, or would get bored.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  34. #34

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    Correct me if I am wrong, but Basenotes is the only site where this is the case. No other blog or perfume site has this level of celeb discussion. Well from what I have seen, no other perfume blog/site discusses Creed as much too.
    I wonder if this is because creed are more significant as a creater of mens frags than womens? With basenotes being the only site with a larger number of men, the frags get more coverage here?
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  35. #35

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder
    I wonder if this is because creed are more significant as a creater of mens frags than womens? With basenotes being the only site with a larger number of men, the frags get more coverage here?
    Might be. But they do have a larger catalog of womens perfume. Another observation (by Scentemental) was that Creed (or any other niche house like Penhaligons, SergeLutens, SMN, L'Artisan, etc) are rarely talked about in perfume history (despite the fact that quite a few of the houses are over 50-100 years old). The history is all about the Carons, Chanels, Hermes and Guerlains.

    Who knows, maybe "niche" houses really are overhyped
    -

  36. #36

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    Might be. But they do have a larger catalog of womens perfume. Another observation (by Scentemental) was that Creed (or any other niche house like Penhaligons, SergeLutens, SMN, L'Artisan, etc) are rarely talked about in perfume history (despite the fact that quite a few of the houses are over 50-100 years old). The history is all about the Carons, Chanels, Hermes and Guerlains.

    Who knows, maybe "niche" houses really are overhyped
    Maybe. Or perhaps we overestimate the artistic/artisan factor and these histories place more importance on commercial success?
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  37. #37

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Well, let's face it, many people HAVE neither taste nor confidence in their own judgement when it comes to fragrance Those who are happy to find their own way to the fragrances they like don't particularly need to have their way lit by a posse of celebrities whose body chemistry is unlikely to be identical to one's own.

    I wonder how many have actually been put off by a celebrity endorsement?

  38. #38

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Count me in there -- someone told me a few years back that Dubya is fond of Hugo Boss for Men. (Don't know if that's true or not.) Was never a fan of Boss fragrances to begin with, but am now doubly prejudiced against them. (Even if I find out that Dubya DOESN'T wear Boss, I still won't care for the frag much.)
    Last edited by tvlampboy; 6th November 2006 at 06:02 PM.

    Peggy: "Right now, we have to get to the mental institution. Something terrible has happened."
    Latrelle: "What?"
    Peggy: "Brother Boy has tried to kill himself. He jumped out of his bedroom window."
    Latrelle: "Isn't he only on the second floor?"
    Peggy: "Yes, but he hit his head on a lawn gnome."
    Fr. Sordid Lives: The Series
    *****
    "Live, live, live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death."
    Auntie Mame
    [/B]

  39. #39

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp
    I didnt know this - I didnt find the SA's at Saks to be very informative, but Neiman-Marcus might be a different case.
    Sometimes the salesperson is an employee of the retailer, sometimes the salesperson is an employee of Creed's U.S. arm (Manhattan-based International Cosmetics & Perfumes, Inc. reachable at info@icperfumes.com) and sometimes the employee is "shared", that is, employed jointly by the retailer and Creed's U.S. arm. It varies from store to store.

  40. #40

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Savvy_Nose
    Sometimes the salesperson is an employee of the retailer, sometimes the salesperson is an employee of Creed's U.S. arm (Manhattan-based International Cosmetics & Perfumes, Inc. reachable at info@icperfumes.com) and sometimes the employee is "shared", that is, employed jointly by the retailer and Creed's U.S. arm. It varies from store to store.
    Someone/everyone save that email! Got Creed questions? Great place to send them.
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  41. #41

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    This is off-topic, but in response to Tigers1901, the NM salespeople perform the same function for Guerlain skincare. My local NM appears to have no one present in the fragrance department (suburban location) and when I have shopped there no one has written down information about my purchase (Love in White). (They do seem relieved to actually discuss their products, however.) Buying Guerlain skincare followed your remarks about Creed research strategy to the letter. I felt I was interviewed about the performance of a face cream and there was the uncomfortable subtext that the whole thing was done out of a desire to penalize the salesperson for not securing additional sales, not out of a desire to obtain informative feedback.

  42. #42

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    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    I do not think people would buy a product simply because a celebrity uses it. I bet people are smarter than that and judge a fragrance based on other more important factors.

  43. #43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Creek View Post
    but this sort of approach is really geared to anxious teenagers, not the clientele of a high-end store.
    Wrong, it's geared towards insecure people with disposable income. Be it $20 or $200. :brolly:

  44. #44

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    It's been interesting reading this thread, so much vitriol on both sides pro-Creed and con-Creed. As for myself, I am probably the worst consumer out there, I just ignore ANY and ALL celeb endorsements. Who really cares what a overpaid actor likes to wear for his/her scent? I wore Bois du Portugal for years and only came to find out recently that Napoleon wore it. BFD! I found this out on Basenotes.

    It is so true that many of Creeds fragrances are dated, yet that seems to be their allure, there are very few scents that have stood the test of time. I am neither pro-Creed or anti-Creed. I simply use my nose and skin and if I like a fragrance, I buy it.

    As a perfume house, Creed has some work to do in getting some new ideas to market. Hopefully Oliver will see this need and get moving before another house takes the initative. If you look at their line, it is a bit arcane. A good example is Private Tabarome. I bought a 250ml Flacon of it because they don't sell it in smaller amounts. Is Private Tabarome dated? Hell yes it is, but not many people wear it and that is the allure to many fragrance junkies-wear something no one else is wearing (be unique).

    I've often found humor in the way the market chooses age groups for it's fragrances. A 60ish guy I used to work with wore a spritz or two of Joop! and it actually smelled good on him. Is L3M for teenagers only? I wear it and get compliments.....

    To wrap up ( and get off my soap box) Creed can extol the virtues of it's products with past and current celebs, I really don't care. My interested in fragrances is to please myself.
    Green Dragon

    Aliquando et insanire iucundum est.

  45. #45

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by samplermike View Post
    I do not think people would buy a product simply because a celebrity uses it. I bet people are smarter than that and judge a fragrance based on other more important factors.
    This is the most ignorant or naive statement I've ever read.

    TNMA
    "Why not seize the pleasure at once?"
    -- Jane Austen (Sun, and Mercury in Sagittarius)

  46. #46

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    Quote Originally Posted by samplermike View Post
    I do not think people would buy a product simply because a celebrity uses it. I bet people are smarter than that and judge a fragrance based on other more important factors.
    I really wanted to know which hunting dog systematically undigs rotting Creed bones to see if there is still flesh on them. This one hardly even smells any more - it's 2006! .
    It's standard practice to connect celebrities with one or the other product. It usually means money for everyone involved, including agents and lawyers. Michael Jackson wears Orange Spice, and Marilyn M wore 'nothing but a drop of ...' And somebody is professionally engaged to spread the news, an old path...
    Last edited by narcus; 1st March 2008 at 07:34 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  47. #47

    Default Re: Creed and its fancy clientele - So what ?

    This thread is done. It was long ago as well.
    Questions?
    PM me.
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

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