Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1

    Unhappy chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

    I am still a bit "stuck" on chypre. I thought classic chypres were, for example, Chanel No. 5. Something rich with aldehydes and having that distinct fumey thing about them. But then as far as what notes they contain, sometimes I have a difficult time knowing if something's an oriental or a chypre. Throw in other woody/mossy/ferny scents and the category of Fougere (is that another way of saying "green"? I think of it as ferny/wet woody) and it becomes a bit more confusing.

    Anyone have a way of explaining the boundaries between these scent classes?

    This post was inspired by the sniff & scent post r.e. Orientals.
    Beauty is but the sensible image of the Infinite.
    Like truth and justice it lives within us; like virtue and the moral law it is a companion of the soul.
    -George Bancroft {1800-1891 American Historian}

    =

    current favorites:
    Balmain Jolie Madame, Serge Lutens Muscs Kublai Khan
    =

  2. #2
    moondeva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    1,562
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

    OK, shall do my best.

    Chypre: True chypres originate from the Coty's groundbreaking perfume Chypre de Coty, which featured the distinct bergamot / oakmoss / patchouli / labdanum accord. These notes among others are typical of the natural scents native to the island of Cyprus (particularly the mossy woods).
    So to recognise a traditional chypre look for those that feature a citrus / fruity top note (usually featuring bergamot) over a woody oakmoss / patchouli base. There are subdivisions within the family including green, leather, fruity, floral, animalic). Classic Chypres = Guerlain Mitsouko (fruity), Rochas Femme (fruity), Jean Patou Colony (fruity), Carven Ma Griffe (floral), Guerlain Chant D'Aromes (floral), Chanel No.19 (leather floral), Dior Miss Dior (leather), Paloma Picasso Mon Parfum (green), Gres Cabochard (leather, floral-animalic).

    Fougere: This term is the french for 'fern-like' and is actually a fantasy note as ferns do not have a scent. The term is used to describe herbaceous mossy evoke the scent of a fern covered forest floor. This type of blend features notes such as sage, rosemary, lavender, basil, thyme with citrus (bergamot, lemon) high notes and a smooth woody base. It is easy to see how the lines are blurred but fougeres do not usually feature the incensy / ambery base of a traditional chypre. Classic Fougeres = Crown Perfumery Crown Fougere, Guerlain Jicky, Penhaligons English Fern, Paco Rabanne for Men.

    Oriental: Personally, I see these perfumes as those that evoke the Orient through the use of traditional notes such as patchouli, amber, spice (vanilla, nutmeg, cinnamon), incense (frankincense (olibanum), myrrh) and exotic resins / balsams. They are deep, powerful, sensual and seductive. This covers an awful lot of ground these days, expecially with the huge sub-category of floral orientals (florientals). Classic Orientals = Dana Tabu, Must de Cartier, Dior Poison, YSL Opium, Estee Lauder Youth Dew, Serge Lutens Ambre Sultan, Serge Lutens Arabie, Caron Poivre.

    I do hope this helps.
    Favourite (Winter) Crazy Combos

    Tabu + Orange Blossom * Hermes Rouge + Bellodgia* Voleur du Roses+ Rose Ispahan * Rasa Extreme + Paris * Wood Coffee + Cafe Noir *

  3. #3

    Default Re: chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

    Take a look at this poster.
    http://www.leffingwell.com/h%26rfrag...ie_feminin.pdf

    And look up your favorites or the different categories in Michael Edwards classification base.
    http://www.fragrancedirectory.info/u...leContacts.asp

    One must have a firm grasp of the categorization of perfumes before going one step further, it is exceedingly important.

  4. #4

    Default Re: chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7
    Take a look at this poster.
    http://www.leffingwell.com/h%26rfrag...ie_feminin.pdf

    And look up your favorites or the different categories in Michael Edwards classification base.
    http://www.fragrancedirectory.info/u...leContacts.asp

    One must have a firm grasp of the categorization of perfumes before going one step further, it is exceedingly important.
    Wow, that poster is wonderful! Thanks for posting the link purplebird7

  5. #5

    Default Re: chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

    thank you so much Moondeva and Purplebird!
    Beauty is but the sensible image of the Infinite.
    Like truth and justice it lives within us; like virtue and the moral law it is a companion of the soul.
    -George Bancroft {1800-1891 American Historian}

    =

    current favorites:
    Balmain Jolie Madame, Serge Lutens Muscs Kublai Khan
    =

  6. #6

    Default Re: chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

    Yesterday I received an order which included a phalanx of samples thanks to a very generous BNer. After smelling Guerlain Jicky and L'Artisan Passage D'Enfer, I think I am one step closer to understanding chypre.

    Is it possible that those frags that smell like nothing else, that are abstract (like Jicky, Passage, etc) are chypres?

    I know chypre is associated with a very indepedent/iconoclastic/eccentric personality, usually cerebral, perhaps a bit detached. Are these abstract, unusual, and odd frags like the above always chypres? What is it in the chypre family that makes this class of fragrances seem so different from the florals, orientals, and greens?

    When I smelled Jicky, I was totally blown away. I thought "is this my HG?" Going back to the "women wearing men's frags" discussion, where we are talking about how fragrance carries a powerful subliminal association, and choosing not to wear frag is choosing to not use a communication method, I'm wondering if chypres aren't really the ones for me. That sense of mystery, refracted light (almost like a hall of mirrors), serenity, and balance, while smelling like nothing else around has a powerful subliminal impact on ME and makes me feel the way I need and want to be feeling right now.

    <-- full of questions right now. these frags sure have a way of getting inside of you!
    Beauty is but the sensible image of the Infinite.
    Like truth and justice it lives within us; like virtue and the moral law it is a companion of the soul.
    -George Bancroft {1800-1891 American Historian}

    =

    current favorites:
    Balmain Jolie Madame, Serge Lutens Muscs Kublai Khan
    =

  7. #7
    moondeva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    1,562
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by mochi227
    After smelling Guerlain Jicky and L'Artisan Passage D'Enfer, I think I am one step closer to understanding chypre.

    Is it possible that those frags that smell like nothing else, that are abstract (like Jicky, Passage, etc) are chypres?
    Sorry, mochi227, neither of these are chypres. Passage D'Enfer is classed as Woody Oriental, which smells of smooth white woods, incense and spice (notes: Aloe, Incense, White Lily, Myrrh, Frankincense, White Musk, Benzoin). A very haunting, unique blend.

    Jicky is classed as Vanilla Oriental or Semi-Oriental Herbaceous, I tend to think of it as a Fougere Oriental, It starts out herbaceous and fougere in the top and heart notes but the complex woods , incense and vanilla draw the blend into the realm of oriental. (Notes: Lemon, Bergamot, Mandarin, Rosewood, Lavender, Mint, Verbena, Sweet Marjoram, Thyme Rosemary, Linalool, New Mown Hay, Sandalwood, Amber, Musk, Civet, Vanillin, Tonka Bean). Another haunting, evocative blend.

    You are right that they they are both cerebral scents that 'get inside your head' and, love 'em or hate 'em, are truly unforgettable.

    I think your preference at the moment is towards clean smooth incensy woods. May I recommend that you search out a few of the following perfumes and see how you get on with them:

    Donna Karan Black Cashmere
    Shiseido Feminite du Bois
    10 Corso Como 10CC
    YSL NU EDP
    Fendi Theorema
    Givenchy Organza Indecence
    Coty Wild Woods
    Caron Pour Un Homme
    Guerlain Shalimar (parfum only)
    Serge Lutens Santal Blanc
    Armani Mania
    Chopard Madness
    Gres Cabaret
    Diesel Green Feminine
    D&G Feminine

    Favourite (Winter) Crazy Combos

    Tabu + Orange Blossom * Hermes Rouge + Bellodgia* Voleur du Roses+ Rose Ispahan * Rasa Extreme + Paris * Wood Coffee + Cafe Noir *

  8. #8

    Default Re: chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

    Thanks Moondeva. Ok, so I guess I'm not one step closer to understanding chypres! Both of those scents impressed me greatly for how unique they are.

    I'm still very curious about chypre. Going to go read up a bit on Osmoz right now.
    Beauty is but the sensible image of the Infinite.
    Like truth and justice it lives within us; like virtue and the moral law it is a companion of the soul.
    -George Bancroft {1800-1891 American Historian}

    =

    current favorites:
    Balmain Jolie Madame, Serge Lutens Muscs Kublai Khan
    =

  9. #9

    Default Re: chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

    Those are great links, Purplebird. I like some fragrances in each category, but according to Michael Edwards' directory I gravitate most toward the "fresh" and "crisp" sub-categories. I do enjoy fragrances that are uplifting. I have always loved chypres. Even as a young girl I gravitated toward them, though didn't know they were called "chypre". I don't know about the "cerebral" or "eccentric" part of being a chypre lover. Maybe it's true somewhat, but I think it's a bit of a stereotype.

  10. #10

    Default Re: chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

    mochi 227, I am not as knowledgable by far as moondeva and sometimes that helps. I am closer to being a beginner, maybe I can help some. Oakmoss. That's the one to look for. Maybe they use synthetic now, I don't know. But a chypre will usually list or have that ingredient. I don't know if a chypre always has oakmoss, but when in doubt, look up that note. If I'm far off, someone will correct me.

  11. #11

    Default Re: chypre vs. oriental vs. fougere

    I like the Michael Edwards site. It really helps with pronunciation too.

Similar Threads

  1. What is the ultimate "Oriental" men's colognes?
    By afraafra in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 20th June 2008, 01:40 PM
  2. Name your Scent!
    By manicboy in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 17th October 2007, 03:04 PM
  3. REMINDER ::: Sniff-n-Speak Saturday, Jan. 6>>>ORIENTALS
    By Quarry in forum Female Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 10th February 2007, 12:46 AM
  4. Chypre vs. Oriental
    By Elf in forum Just Starting Out
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 3rd June 2006, 07:05 PM
  5. Chypre vs. Fougere
    By conehead in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 8th December 2005, 12:03 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000