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  1. #1

    Thumbs down Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    The Las Vegas-based National Toxic Encephalophathy Organization (try saying that five times fast) is going after Clarins and Thierry Mugler Parfums.

    In particular, they're going after Angel. They plan on suing Clarins USA along with Nordstrom (a major seller of Angel), saying that the popular perfume could cause eye damage and contains the "hazardous" ingredient benzophenone-2.

    There's a lot of flaws in this case:
    • First off, no one I know of sprays perfume in their eyes.
    • Secondly, benzophenone-2 is a light-blocker that is a common ingredient in many of the most popular perfumes (not just Angel).
    • Thirdly, Greenpeace (which is very picky about health and environmental hazards) did their own testing and gave all Thierry Mugler fragrances a rating of green (read: least hazardous to your health). Other popular fragrances, including the also-popular Jean Paul Gaultier Le Male got red ratings (may be hazardous to your health).
    You may ask: why is this group directing this exclusively at Clarins? It's about the sales: Angel is one of the top 5 perfumes on the US market. And in the US legal system, you always go after the big guys first...
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Quote Originally Posted by MFfan310
    The Las Vegas-based National Toxic Encephalophathy Organization (try saying that five times fast) is going after Clarins and Thierry Mugler Parfums.

    In particular, they're going after Angel. They plan on suing Clarins USA along with Nordstrom (a major seller of Angel), saying that the popular perfume could cause eye damage and contains the "hazardous" ingredient benzophenone-2.

    There's a lot of flaws in this case:
    • First off, no one I know of sprays perfume in their eyes.
    • Secondly, benzophenone-2 is a light-blocker that is a common ingredient in many of the most popular perfumes (not just Angel).
    • Thirdly, Greenpeace (which is very picky about health and environmental hazards) did their own testing and gave all Thierry Mugler fragrances a rating of green (read: least hazardous to your health). Other popular fragrances, including the also-popular Jean Paul Gaultier Le Male got red ratings (may be hazardous to your health).
    You may ask: why is this group directing this exclusively at Clarins? It's about the sales: Angel is one of the top 5 perfumes on the US market. And in the US legal system, you always go after the big guys first...

    I am sorry to hear of this attack on fragrance by yet another group determined to save us from every pleasure in life

  3. #3

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zibeline
    I am sorry to hear of this attack on fragrance by yet another group determined to save us from every pleasure in life
    That is sooo funny - and so true!

    I am usually pretty sensitive about issues related to health, especially the chemical, artificial foods that are shoved down people's throats nowadays and that don't even taste good (so you can't really say they are a "pleasure").
    But when it comes to things like perfume or the natural fat that certain foods... naturally have - these are things that have been around for ages and they are what gives spice and pleasure to life.

    It is so annoying though to see that in the American middle-class culture everything is about being "goody-goody" which is actually equated with "no pleasure and no fun".

    For example why do "healthy choices" in foods have to taste so horribly?
    It's either drown yourself in burger fat OR eat those plain, boilt, poorly prepared vegetables that make you hate life, no matter how healthy it may be.

    One of the things that both my sister and I noticed when we came to the US was that deodorants don't have any smell. There are even many laundry detergents that have no smell. Everything is puritanical and fragrance-free.
    She says that when she washes her laundry with fragrance-free detergent the clothes come out smelling as if they are still dirty.
    You gotta have some fresh smell in your newly washed clothes!
    Yet there are so many detergent with no smell at all, in the name of "safety".

    Another thing: clothes' colors. Am I the only one that has noticed that the color of mainstream apparel in this country is beyind horrific?
    I am not talking about some expensive, niche designer at Saks. I am talking about regualr clothes for regular people.

    Why do these clothes have to have funeral colors?

    Lots and lots of dead gray and boring beige, powdered dead blue (as in "suicidal gloomy sky in the middle of Nowhere, AL" ); and yes, most pinks are like washed-out panties after they have been spotted by menstrual bood and washed by hand a hundred times (pardon the imagery).

    Someone told me that "modest, sober colors" are "professional.

    I see. Subliminal message: "professionals" only enjoy serious corporate work, they have nothing to do with fashion, joy of life or God Forbid, the slightest trace of hedonism.
    What is going on? Why do professionals have to look like they hate life?
    Last edited by syracusa; 25th January 2007 at 06:04 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Ugh... typical of groups like that (no surprise that they're centered in Las Vegas). They say Mugler may be hazardous, but I don't know of ANY fragrance that is good if you spray it into your eyes.

    Anyway, one of the only good aspects of our consumer driven culture is that money talks. The Mugler Lobby (or fragrance industry lobby) is much better funded than any protest organization, so aside from being loud and bothersome, I doubt there is much they can do except waste time.

    It strikes me as somewhat sad that when hundreds of people are being killed daily in wars, children are kidnapped and abused, and millions of Americans live below the poverty line, that people want to spend time and money fighting against FRAGRANCES! That sort of skewed vision reminds me of years ago when PETA sued General Motors, saying that instead of testing on animals (which occasionally they did), they ought instead to test on the large homeless population of Flint, MI.
    Last edited by rach2jlc; 25th January 2007 at 05:21 PM.
    Is there any point in saying everything? -Basho

  5. #5

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Of all the tings you could get your knickers in a knot over in Las Vegas, this is what they chose?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Quote Originally Posted by rach2jlc
    That sort of skewed vision reminds me of years ago when PETA sued General Motors, saying that instead of testing on animals (which occasionally they did), they ought instead to test on the large homeless population of Flint, MI.
    What?!!!!!!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Second syracusa's comment.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Quote Originally Posted by syracusa
    It is so annoying though to see that in the American middle-class culture everything is about being "goody-goody" which is actually equated with "no pleasure and no fun".
    Are you kidding? I think it's just the opposite. I think Americans are spoiled and over-stimulated in EVERY way. Have you seen the cereal isle at the grocery store?! It's a whole freak'n isle! In fact, we are distracted by material stuff to the point that we've let our government run this country and its economy into the ground and we are now the biggest threat to world peace.

    Quote Originally Posted by syracusa
    For example why do "healthy choices" in foods have to taste so horribly? It's either drown yourself in burger fat OR eat those plain, boilt, poorly prepared vegetables that make you hate life, no matter how healthy it may be.
    Healthy choices typically equate to more expensive and more time consuming to prepare but can be just as pallet-pleasing. I love eating healthy and I can make my healthy food taste delicious but it's definitely not as quick and easy as throwing a frozen pizza into the microwave or toaster oven. Again, this leads back to the fast-paced, gotta-have-what-I-want and I-want-it-NOW American lifestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by syracusa
    One of the things that both my sister and I noticed when we came to the US was that deodorants don't have any smell. There are even many laundry detergents that have no smell. Everything is puritanical and fragrance-free. She says that when she washes her laundry with fragrance-free detergent the clothes come out smelling as if they are still dirty. You gotta have some fresh smell in your newly washed clothes!
    Yet there are so many detergent with no smell at all, in the name of "safety".
    Chemicals used to produce scents are causing an allergy epidemic in this country (and others i'm sure). And how can you even make this argument on Basenotes anyway? Do you want the scent of your clothing or deoderant clashing with your SOTD? I don't. I want my laundry detergent to clean my clothes. I don't want it to cover the dirty smell with perfume. And if your clothes still smell dirty after washing them, the detergent is not doing its job. The same goes for my deoderant. For freak's sake it's DEoderant!

    Quote Originally Posted by syracusa
    Another thing: clothes' colors. Am I the only one that has noticed that the color of mainstream apparel in this country is beyind horrific?
    I am not talking about some expensive, niche designer at Saks. I am talking about regualr clothes for regular people.

    Why do these clothes have to have funeral colors?

    Lots and lots of dead gray and boring beige, powdered dead blue (as in "suicidal gloomy sky in the middle of Nowhere, AL" ); and yes, most pinks are like washed-out panties after they have been spotted by menstrual bood and washed by hand a hundred times (pardon the imagery).

    Someone told me that "modest, sober colors" are "professional.

    I see. Subliminal message: "professionals" only enjoy serious corporate work, they have nothing to do with fashion, joy of life or God Forbid, the slightest trace of hedonism.
    What is going on? Why do professionals have to look like they hate life?
    Just different culture. The market is driven by what people want/like. Personally, I'm not a flashy guy. I wouldn't drive a red car and I don't like bright clothes. I like earthy colors. In my office, women wear bright colors as often as subdued colors. Men typically wear browns, blacks, dark blues, but often brighten the outfit with a colorful tie. We guys don't have as much variety in business clothing. You won't see a guy wearing a red business suit, but a woman can easily get away with red or orange or lime green and still look professional.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Quote Originally Posted by syracusa
    What?!!!!!!
    Yeah, PETA has a really interesting record for recommending gross human rights violations to protect animals. Just do a websearch and you'll see how nice and fair this organization is.
    Is there any point in saying everything? -Basho

  10. #10

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Re: Syracusa's comment:
    I think more what she was getting at is the way we are expected to feel guilty and apologize for anything we do that could be considered for pleasure only. We're expected to explain to our table-mates if we order dessert rather than just enjoy it, people feel free to comment on what you put in your grocery cart. A glass of wine can be a problem (a pregnant woman in S. Carolina was charged with child endangerment for ordering a glass of wine, even though pretty much every obstetrician out there says a glass now and then is fine). We're made to feel lazy (or fired) if we don't work 50 hour weeks, even though it's been shown over and over again that people are more productive with shorter hours and happier lives. It's not that we aren't over-stimulated and irresponsible consumers - we are. It's the not feeling like we can truly relax and enjoy life without a nagging feeling of guilt - and that comes from our Puritanical heritage.

    Ever had someone regard your collecting perfumes as frivolous, a fault? Asked how many people it would have helped if you had just donated that money? I've had that asked on several occasions. Usually by people with equally expensive hobbies in one way or another; it's an unconscious jab at something pleasurable, and perfume is an easy target because it exists only to bring sensual pleasure. That squicks a lot of people out. I think that's what the folks going after Clarins are grabbing onto - there are many more dangerous chemicals in our daily lives, just look at laundry soap and soft drinks - but Angel is a sensual item, and easier to target for banning.


    Anyway, enough threadjacking.
    “Everything is a miracle. It is a miracle that one does not dissolve in one's bath like a lump of sugar.”
    -Pablo Picasso

  11. #11

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    What ever happened to just minding ones own business? If I want to spray perfume in my damn eye I should be allowed to! Americans have become micro managers I think we need to learn to be responsible for ourselves before we extend our superb managerial services to others.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Quote Originally Posted by tdi
    What ever happened to just minding ones own business? If I want to spray perfume in my damn eye I should be allowed to! Americans have become micro managers I think we need to learn to be responsible for ourselves before we extend our superb managerial services to others.
    kudos to you tdi! your comment made me chuckle. it's so true that americans want to micromanage the lives of others. random groups are always lobbying the government to ban this or that, to make christianity the national religion, and now they're attacking fragrances!?!

    hey, let's start a movement to ban all products in the home that could potentially cause eye irritation or other health problems. at least i won't have to clean the bathroom anymore! lol
    nilla krug

  13. #13

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Quote Originally Posted by nilla420
    hey, let's start a movement to ban all products in the home that could potentially cause eye irritation or other health problems. at least i won't have to clean the bathroom anymore! lol
    Or use utensils to eat! Knives can be quite bad for eyes. Forks, too.
    Another belief of mine; that everyone else my age is an adult, whereas I am merely in disguise.

    Margaret Atwood

  14. #14

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    Quote Originally Posted by unstableisotope
    Re: Syracusa's comment:

    I think more what she was getting at is the way we are expected to feel guilty and apologize for anything we do that could be considered for pleasure only. We're expected to explain to our table-mates if we order dessert rather than just enjoy it, people feel free to comment on what you put in your grocery cart. A glass of wine can be a problem (a pregnant woman in S. Carolina was charged with child endangerment for ordering a glass of wine, even though pretty much every obstetrician out there says a glass now and then is fine). We're made to feel lazy (or fired) if we don't work 50 hour weeks, even though it's been shown over and over again that people are more productive with shorter hours and happier lives. It's not that we aren't over-stimulated and irresponsible consumers - we are. It's the not feeling like we can truly relax and enjoy life without a nagging feeling of guilt - and that comes from our Puritanical heritage.
    MadScientist,

    Unstableisotope explained perfectly what I was getting at. You are right about the cereals at the grocery store. We ARE bombarded with lots of color and gloss in advertising - but at the same time, all this color used in advertising somehow DOES NOT translate into an expression of joy of living in people's every day life. I have noticed that DESPITE rampant consumerism there is a promulgation of the "ugly" in this culture like I have seen nowhere else.
    I am not sure how to explain this...from the glorification of Crocs as "cool" footwear (have you ever seen a more hideous thing to be placed on a human being's foot?) to the tons of cheap and ugly clothes that average Joes prefer to buy (instead of 4 beautiful, quality pieces)...America doesn't exactly inspire beauty, art, color, and joy of living when you take a closer look.

    It gives an overall sensation of lack of authenticity, syntheticism, uniformity, poor quality and yes! ...even austerity, DESPITE otherwise agressive displays of opulence in houses, cars, and quantity of merchandise acquired.

    Once I mentioned to a co-worker that I had made a fragrance purchase at Nordstroms. She blurted in disbelief: "You are shopping at Nordstroms????!! This is the most overpriced store I have ever seen! Besides..do you know what perfumes are made of? Animal glands!!".

    She sounded pretty horrified and scornful. She then went on to say that she gets her clothes from Old Navy and that she is always a thrift shopper (her husband will soon be earning 300,000 USD a year as a spinal injuries doctor).

    She changes her clothes all the time. She has about a million pieces of clothes - all ugly and of very poor quality...but she rarely wears one piece twice.

    This is a mentality I can't get over. You cannot afford Nordstroms but you CAN afford a million pieces of poor quality that will cost you way more than 4 Nordstroms pieces and will also make you look ugly all the time.
    Again, the glorification of austerity combined with ugly consumerism - over quality and beauty.

    As for fragrance-free detergents: I know that true perfume lovers may not want the smell of detergents in their clothes because they want their nice perfume to shine instead (though I believe that those fresh detergent smells are so light and breezy that they don't really interfere with your perfume).

    But think about it: a lot of people do not wear perfume at all!
    The point was the "fragrance-free" mentality in everything, at all times.

    I know that in Europe not many people can afford to put on nice perfume on a daily basis. Instead they use a fresh, pleasently fragranced deodorant and it's still something.
    My mom was always the type who kept her nice fragrance bottle (Caron, Chanel or Nina Ricci) for a special ocasion - and on a daily basis, for work, she was just using a Fa deodorant. She always smelled beautifully when she left the house.

    In the end - yes, it is all about Puritanism mixed with rampant and ugly consumerism. Guilt and excesses at the same time, combined with an innate absence of the appreciation of beauty and life's pleasures.

    Unfortunately, I think these are some of the flaws in this culture.
    That's why you'll see attacks against the "hedonistic" and "unhealthy" Thierry Mugler and the like.

    PS: Yes, we have gotten a bit off topic - so maybe a moderator may consider moving it to the "general topics" section?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Scare artists target Clarins/Thierry Mugler Parfums...

    seriously...if 'they' want us to be healthy they would outlaw EVERYTHING except organic food and natural fiber clothing without dyes.. i'm joking, but i think it's ridiculous that people try to outlaw one item when in reality pretty much everything is bad for you (fast food, food you buy at the store, cigarettes, everyday household chemicals, toothpaste, cigarettes, new car smell, etc) i'm going to die anyway...if i get pleasure out of life by spraying myself with perfume, then let me be!

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