Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 40 of 40
  1. #1

    purplebird7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    2,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    I subtitle this "The Sad Evolution of Mitsouko." In it, I attempt to side-by-side compare old and new formulations, samples of my own and provided by various people.

    2006 - Formula with no oakmoss. Only treemoss listed. Citrusy opening note. Dry wood heart is extremely resinous (musty in a pretty, haunting way.) Peach emerges from the wood. In the EDT it is discordant with the wood for awhile and takes longer to focus. In the parfum, it emerges faster and stronger. The peach is dominated by the wood for a relatively long time. Base ends with a delicate, sweet peach which is more aromatic than edible.

    1980s - No citrus top notes. Wood is still resinous, but the peach is more well-matched with the wood. The peach emerges faster, stronger, and better in higher concentrations, as it does currently. Smells similar to the current version, but the peach and wood are more mellow and integrated, and it is overall better and less harsh.

    1970s - Extremely different. This must be the last time that Mitsouko smelled like Mitsouko. Right from the start, this is a creamy, rich, sweet, round, peach. So deep, so lush, so delicious. The wood is integrated into the peach (not the other way around) and it is mild and hardly noticed. The peach evolves by picking up sweetness and a bit of powder, like a box of expensive, old-fashioned makeup. The base has vanilla. This aroma is lacking in later versions. Together with the fruit, the base ends up smelling like vanilla cake soaked with orange or peach liquour. This fragrance is all about peach, not wood.

    And this is the EDC from the 1970s. What paradise must the EDT, EDP, or pure parfum have been?
    I can see Mitsouko sitting in front of her vanity, wearing her peach silk kimono. She is not sad and musty. She is smiling and sweet.
    Why cannot they make Mitsouko like this again?
    I am sorry, but if you haven't smelled this, you have not smelled the real Mitsouko.
    I am dismayed. This old formulation is beautiful beyond words.
    People, Guerlain has pulled a switcheroo. And it happened after the 1970s. The current changes are bad, but the wost change happened decades ago.

  2. #2
    Kotori's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    466
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    What an interesting post!

    I am sadly mourning the loss of the current Mitsouko (good thing I have a spare 2005 bottle of EDT still in the box).

    I was wondering, how did you come across samples of 1970's Mitsouko?

  3. #3
    Bois et Musc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Queens New York
    Posts
    181
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    I own two Mitsouko extrait de parfum bottles:

    the first one is vintage from the early 80's, bought non evaporated, sealed in its original box. The color got darker due to patchouli time alteration (wich doesn 't affect scent), a rich "caca-d'oie" (brownish green or goose poop). This is the most beautiful and mysterious version, smoother and softer lemony opening leading the way to earthier fruity chypre notes balanced out with the most stunning radiance and luminosity of ambregris notes.


    I am less less less thrilled with the second one from the late 90's, harsher top notes, green color.
    I don 't get the same earthy fruity notes developping in the drydown, maybe a cheaper patchouli? instead a rather unpleasant persisting tar note emanates from the mousse de chêne (oakmoss).
    Most unfortunate in this version the original real rare and precious ambregris has definitely been replaced by some synthetic substitute therefore we don 't get the same radiance intensity but overall this parfum rendition remains a unique perfume with 'character' but not as mysterious.
    Last edited by Bois et Musc; 10th February 2007 at 04:47 AM.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Near Philadelphia
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Purplebird -- can you tell us which concentrations you were comparing from the different eras? And do you have the latest EDP; if so, what are your impressions? thanks - K

  5. #5
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Rusk
    Posts
    6,525
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    It's deceptive but Guerlain has used the terms tree moss/oakmoss interchangeably. I emailed Isabelle Rousseau for more info about that. The last Mitsouko EDT I bought lists tree moss. It was made in 2001. It's good. Same goes for the Parfum I bought at the same time.

    I don't own a Guerlain box that lists oakmoss as an ingredient. They all list tree moss. I asked Rousseau when Mitsouko was reformulated. Hopefully she'll supply an answer.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Clifton, Virginia
    Posts
    481
    Post Thanks / Like

    Unhappy Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Well, well, well. I last had a bottle of the real perfume, extrait, whatever in the late seventies, I think. I'm glad I'm not going crazy. When I bought my bottles of Jolie Madame and Mitsouko EdT a couple of weeks ago I thought there was something wrong with the Mitsouko. The gentleman who was working in the shop said that Guerlain was doing something weird, but Balmain had turned over his ops to his daughter and things were still doing well there. So it seems. The new Mitsouko seems harsher, with less "heart" than the old. Ah....youth is wasted on the young. I wish I had that perfume back now.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    How sad to read this! This means it isn´t any idea to buy oneself Mitsouko, I am afraid. It isn´t any fun to get to know something when one is told it was much better earlier.

    Is it the same with L´Heure Bleu?
    Faves right now: Chanel No 19, Stella Rose Absolute, L´Heure Bleu, Elixir de Merveilles, Samsara.

  8. #8
    donna255's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Belfast
    Posts
    5,294
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Both my last Mitsouko purchases where in the 90s, edt and parfum. I always wore the edp in the 80's but for some reason the last time I bought this strenght it just did not sit well with me. The aldehyde peach C-14 in Mitsouko is like no other sythethic peach, lush golden. I often wondered if Guerlain copyrighted the C-14 forumla? Every other fragrance with peach smells like one of those plastic fruit bowls!
    DONNA

  9. #9

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Of all formulations and all concentrations, the only one I've smelled is the new EdT and well, simply put, I love it. Now, I do of course not know what I'm missing out on but I will do my best to find out. But for someone who hasn't smelled the old stuff or any Mitsouko, would you guys who knows their vintage stuff go as far as to recommend not to smell it at all? Sounds like it from this thread... Myself, I don't think I could go back and not live without Mitsouko after I've treated myself with a bottle, it is waay too yummy for that
    Last edited by shifts; 10th February 2007 at 01:51 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by shifts
    Of all formulations and all concentrations, the only one I've smelled is the new EdT and well, simply put, I love it. Now, I do of course not know what I'm missing out on but I will do my best to find out. But for someone who hasn't smelled the old stuff är any Mitsouko, would you guys who knows their vintage stuff go as far as to recommend not to smell it at all? Sounds like it from this thread... Myself, I don't think I could go back and not live without Mitsouko after I've treated myself with a bottle, it is waay too yummy for that
    Thanks so much for your info, shifts! Now I might dare to get myself a bottle of Mitsouko anyhow...
    Faves right now: Chanel No 19, Stella Rose Absolute, L´Heure Bleu, Elixir de Merveilles, Samsara.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by Margareta
    Thanks so much for your info, shifts! Now I might dare to get myself a bottle of Mitsouko anyhow...
    It almost broke my heart reading how you were so hesitant about trying Mitsouko, so my reply to this thread came mainly from your post here. I felt the same way before I had sniffed my bottle, but one I did I knew I had to have it. The rest is history...

  12. #12

    purplebird7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    2,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    I used 2006 EDT and parfum. Therefore, I would doubt that the 2006 EDP would smell any better, having smelled the highest and lowest concentrations already, and their general characteristics are the same. I still recommend parfum over anything and EDP over EDT.

    I used 1980s EDT.
    I used a vintage (exact date unknown) EDP.
    I used 1970s EDC.

    I do not know the story behind the lovely 1970s sample that was provided to me--where it was purchased, whether it was first-hand or second-hand.

    Personally, I would disbelieve the validity of an unshiffed, e-Bay purchase of vintage Mitsouko. I would have to smell it myself, and only NOW that I have smelled the real thing. Before, I would not have known what to look for. Without that knowledge, I would only be able to trust getting an old bottle from a friend or relative.

    I was sad to make this discovery, people. I was sad to tell you the truth, and I hope that you do not think I am gloating--that I have smelled the Real Mitsouko, and you have not. This is not my message at all I only want to tell you, as far as reformulations go, the real murder took place long ago.

    Those of you who love the current Mitsouko and do not wish to be disappointed, don't try the pre-1907s UNLESS you love the current Mitsouko for the dry woodiness and not the sweet, fruity, peach. If that is the case, you would be happy that it has evolved in this direction.

  13. #13
    moondeva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    1,562
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by shifts
    Of all formulations and all concentrations, the only one I've smelled is the new EdT and well, simply put, I love it. Now, I do of course not know what I'm missing out on but I will do my best to find out. But for someone who hasn't smelled the old stuff är any Mitsouko, would you guys who knows their vintage stuff go as far as to recommend not to smell it at all? Sounds like it from this thread... Myself, I don't think I could go back and not live without Mitsouko after I've treated myself with a bottle, it is waay too yummy for that
    Shifts thank you for this dose of clarity. I have come to adore Mitsouko and must admit that I too cannot envision my life without it in some form. It is still an amazingly original blend. However, I have found that, especially when wearing the modern parfum, I find myself saddened by the distinct mutilations upon this iconic blend. It may have been better for me to have never known this beauty in her heyday, for my heart always breaks a little when I wear the current version, as it does when I wear the modern Cabochard and Rochas Femme. Mitsouko is a harder adaptation for me as I discovered the vintage before the modern, it was the other way round for the other two I mentioned.

    For now I shall look out for older stock bottles and I shall monitor my usage so I don't have to face the true horror. But I will probably end up wearing the modern version, only after seeking an alternative or even attempting to make my own.

    To close: For one who has never experienced Mitsouko before I say that you should still try the modern version, but do not be surprised if it does not live up to the lofty descriptions of many others. It is an interesting scent in its own right and needs to be sampled fully, with an open mind, several times before passing judgement. It is an elegant, Old World scent, that may not immediately appeal to your modern sensibilities and tastes - but it is worth the effort. However, just like there is a vast difference between experiencing / living through the times of a world changing event and reading, watching a film or hearing about the event later; there is a measurable difference between the current version and the various vintage variations that we old timers are weeping over the loss of...
    Last edited by moondeva; 10th February 2007 at 02:30 PM.
    Favourite (Winter) Crazy Combos

    Tabu + Orange Blossom * Hermes Rouge + Bellodgia* Voleur du Roses+ Rose Ispahan * Rasa Extreme + Paris * Wood Coffee + Cafe Noir *

  14. #14

    purplebird7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    2,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    How about this?
    New purchasers, it is best to judge the new Mitsouko on its own merits. If you like it, then it is good. That is all that matters. Truly, this is a fair thing to do, because the old version was like an entirely different perfume, with the focus on a different aspect of the notes, altogether.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7
    I was sad to make this discovery, people. I was sad to tell you the truth, and I hope that you do not think I am gloating--that I have smelled the Real Mitsouko, and you have not.
    Maybe I should comment on this as well, since my reply might have been what made you write this. I should have posted right off that I loved your post purplebird, because I really did. Very interesting although very saddening. I just thought I'd blow some positive air into this thread so it wouldn't all be mourning. I'm afraid to try on the real deal, but can on the other hand not wait until I do either.

  16. #16

    purplebird7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    2,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    shifts, your comment was perfect. It put some optimism in this thread.

    I was afraid yesterday, from the start, in my first post, that people would think I was bragging because there are people who try to be first to smell things. It is like a status symbol to say "I smelled the new..." And I did not want anyone to think I am like that.

    You are a sincere critic and a truthful person, so I think you can handle knowing what the old Mitsouko smelled like. Also, I think the woodiness will be pleasing to you, and not so much the creamy peach, n'est ce pas?

  17. #17

    Strollyourlobster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    3,056
    Post Thanks / Like

    Unhappy Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Many thanks to purplebird7 for the great, really specific info about how Mitsuoko has changed. A couple questions for those of you with this sort of knowledge and experience: Is there similar info out there about other frags? Do the other Guerlains I thought I'd tried resemble their originals? Après L'ondée made me smile (so bouyant and gardenlike without the ozone notes that now represent freshness) perhaps partly because I imagined that I was smelling Paris in 1906.
    And another thought. How would you get ahold of oakmoss extract after these regulations? Will its manufacture be forbidden or only its inclusion in fragrances? I imagine police raids on clandestine Basenotes gatherings in unmapped catacombs, drinking in a last whiff of original Mitsuoko as the dogs close in. What's happening to the industry that has produced these now-regulated extracts and EO's?

  18. #18
    moondeva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    1,562
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7
    [...]Those of you who love the current Mitsouko and do not wish to be disappointed, don't try the pre-1970s UNLESS you love the current Mitsouko for the dry woodiness and not the sweet, fruity, peach. If that is the case, you would be happy that it has evolved in this direction.
    Well this has really cheered me up! I have wondered why many reviewists have likened Mitsouko to Rochas Femme. My vintage Mitsouko parfum does share much of that almost boozy fruity peach liqueur note and the vintage Rochas Femme is similar, but much fruitier than the vintage Mitsouko EDT.

    I am one of those who fell in love with the post 1990's drier woody oakmoss blends rather than the fruity peach blend. But from your description I think:

    Rochas Femme (vintage)
    Jean Patou Sublime EDP
    Jean Patou Colony
    Ava Luxe Mousse de Chine / Moss (especially layered with a dab of modern Rochas Femme)

    ...would all make suitable alternatives to soothe the vintage Mitsouko craving!
    Favourite (Winter) Crazy Combos

    Tabu + Orange Blossom * Hermes Rouge + Bellodgia* Voleur du Roses+ Rose Ispahan * Rasa Extreme + Paris * Wood Coffee + Cafe Noir *

  19. #19
    Bois et Musc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Queens New York
    Posts
    181
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    being worried about the mousse de chene (oakmoss) ban and substitute is one thing but Mitsouko is a perfume from 1919 and has probably been altered many times before since its creation.
    as I mentioned before on this thread, it also comes down to patchouli, and ambregris. It looks like the last time they used real ambregris was in the early 80's

  20. #20

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by Bois et Musc
    being worried about the mousse de chene (oakmoss) ban and substitute is one thing but Mitsouko is a perfume from 1919 and has probably been altered many times before since its creation.
    as I mentioned before on this thread, it also comes down to patchouli, and ambregris. It looks like the last time they used real ambregris was in the early 80's
    Your first words about the ambergris in this one made me crave that version real bad. I would really r e a l l y want to know what that one smells like. Ambergris and sandalwood, it would make me drool I'm sure.

  21. #21

    purplebird7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    2,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by Strollyourlobster
    Do the other Guerlains I thought I'd tried resemble their originals? ...
    And another thought. How would you get ahold of oakmoss extract after these regulations? Will its manufacture be forbidden or only its inclusion in fragrances? ...
    What's happening to the industry that has produced these now-regulated extracts and EO's?
    In answer to your first question, there are a few ways to find out: Read blogs, forums, and reviews. Refer to Parfums Le Guide by Luca Turin (or other writing by him) because he has actually smelled the vintage perfumes and tells you when they ruin them.
    Get your hands on the vintage. I don't trust e-Bay buys unsniffed. Some people do.

    People from the DIY forum or some of our resident parfumeurs might be able to answer whether oakmoss will still be sold.

    What's happening? Check out this thread. It starts out about Mitsouko, but the discussion turns to regulations and natural vs synthetic, which is a hot-button topic anyway:
    http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=192660
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Bois et Musc
    as I mentioned before on this thread, it also comes down to patchouli, and ambregris. It looks like the last time they used real ambregris was in the early 80's
    Is is true that the perfume made and sold in France is made with better alcohol, (and possibly different ingredients) than the perfume sold to the USA?
    I agree with you totally that ingredients make a huge difference in perfume, as much as formulation--maybe more.
    I wonder what lovely ingredients were in the 1970s version...
    Last edited by purplebird7; 10th February 2007 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  22. #22
    Bois et Musc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Queens New York
    Posts
    181
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by shifts
    Your first words about the ambergris in this one made me crave that version real bad. I would really r e a l l y want to know what that one smells like. Ambergris and sandalwood, it would make me drool I'm sure.
    ha ha shifts you would! it 's such a high!
    it 's so not easy to come up with words, since the real ambregris is a secretion from whales it has this sexual smooth mysterious radiance, I love it better than natural civet like in Joy that 's more a raw animalic fixative.

    I was fortunate to find this Mitsouko parfum 80's vintage for $45 on ebay in 2002 I think that before the "Turin Mitsouko hype"
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7

    Is is true that the perfume made and sold in France is made with better alcohol, (and possibly different ingredients) than the perfume sold to the USA?
    I agree with you totally that ingredients make a huge difference in perfume, as much as formulation--maybe more.
    I wonder what lovely ingredients were in the 1970s version...

    I often hear that but I believe it makes more sense when it comes to Chanel perfumes, I know Coco and No 5 in EDT and EDP are made in the US thus respecting FDA restrictions. Their extraits de parfum are always made in France.

    I will only talk about Mitsouko extrait here, it 's a more limited production than EDt and EDP, I really don 't think they use different standarts for the US and wordwide export.

    My little tip for a Mitsouko vintage regardless of concentrations, go for something that 's not too old always sealed in box no stains, the early 80's is perfect, they were still using real ambregris, top quality patchouli and oakmoss.
    on ebay trust someone who sells his/her own vintage perfume and that can tell you exactly with more authenticity in wich conditions it s been kept throughout the years and how old it is, usually retailers, wholesellers don 't know anything and just assume anything.
    Last edited by Bois et Musc; 10th February 2007 at 08:46 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  23. #23

    purplebird7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    2,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Thanks for the great tip.

  24. #24
    Indiscreet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,017
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    I bought my first bottle of Mitsouko in 84 or 85. I'm fairly sure it was the EDT. I loved it.
    I bought the parfum in the mid 90s, and I still have it (it's rather brown these days but still smells good). However, I preferred the 80s EDT - the parfum starts off a bit strident for my tastes, but once it has settled I adore it. I just assumed it was the difference between the stronger and weaker formulations, but I'm guessing now there was a change between the two?

  25. #25

    purplebird7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    2,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    I'm not sure when it happened, but there is a change.
    Altogether, Mitsouko seems to be moving away from the mellow, creamy peach into a more bright peach and dry wood.

    That "harsh" note is what most people object to in the newer versions. Is it the change to treemoss? Is it more citrus? Is it a harsher oud component? Is it the loss of ambergris? Is it a lessening of the 1970s vanilla or amber base? I do not know. But you are not imagining a change.

  26. #26

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Near Philadelphia
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like

    Unhappy Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    This weekend I went to Saks to try Mitsouko EDT while I was wearing a spray of my new bottle of EDP on one hand. The EDT I tried was all creamy softness, which to me signalled that they may have had older stock (no one ever seems to be looking at the Guerlains at my local Saks...they're so sadly overshadowed by all the new stuff)....My hand with EDP had a very strident , penetrating astringency that was quite different from the restrained EDT. I realize that to wear Mitsouko I'm going to have to decant my EDP into a roll on because I've gotten to the point where I can't bear the spray. I'm sad.

    On the other hand, at Saks they had a TESTER of the parfum of Shalimar. That was quite a treat because I'd never tried it before. It was lovely.

  27. #27
    Bois et Musc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Queens New York
    Posts
    181
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7
    \

    That "harsh" note is what most people object to in the newer versions. Is it the change to treemoss? Is it more citrus? Is it a harsher oud component? Is it the loss of ambergris? Is it a lessening of the 1970s vanilla or amber base? I do not know. But you are not imagining a change.
    I don 't really think it 's about vanilla or amber changes, these are basic ingredients, from my experience in the parfum concentration the change from natural real ambregris to a synthetic substitute resulted to far less radiance as a counterpoint to the earthy fruity chypre notes. I attribute the harshness and horrid tar note to the treemoss substitute instead of the original oakmoss. overall a far less mysterious enigmatic perfume extrait de parfum.
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Indiscreet
    I bought my first bottle of Mitsouko in 84 or 85. I'm fairly sure it was the EDT. I loved it.
    I bought the parfum in the mid 90s, and I still have it (it's rather brown these days but still smells good). However, I preferred the 80s EDT - the parfum starts off a bit strident for my tastes, but once it has settled I adore it. I just assumed it was the difference between the stronger and weaker formulations, but I'm guessing now there was a change between the two?
    vintage or new the different Mitsouko concentrations also have different formulas, it 's not just about "concentrations".
    the EDT version has an enhanced vetiver base note that gives it a rather interesting androgynous touch not found in EDP and parfum.
    Last edited by Bois et Musc; 12th February 2007 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  28. #28
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Rusk
    Posts
    6,525
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    I've never smelled the "2006" version. How does one know if it was made in 2006? The parfum I have which was most likely made around 2001-2002 is hard to distinguish from the stuff I have from the late 80's. Same goes for the EDT.

    I've never seen oakmoss listed on a Guerlain box. Luca Turin and others have said that Guerlain has been listing tree moss in place of oakmoss for many years even though it actually usually contains oakmoss. As of March last year, Turin was told by Guerlain that Mitsouko had not yet been reformulated but that it would be shortly.
    Last edited by pluran; 14th February 2007 at 06:50 AM.

  29. #29

    purplebird7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    2,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    I truly wish they would put dates on bottles.

    (Pluran, please bear with me, I know you've had to read through my reiterations in PM form already. I write this again for the benefit of others reading the thread. Thanks.)

    My EDT and parfum from 2006 had more woodiness and a citrusy top than the 1980s version. There could be actual citrus-type ingredients, or vetiver could account for that difference.

    The 1980s version was smoother and more integrated - and you know what? There might two reasons for that. I thought about this for awhile. Perhaps it was the formulation, but perhaps it is because the ingredients have sat around in the bottle together, exchanging molecules for decades.

    The 1970s version, oh yes, that was where it smelled peachier. A focus on different notes, definitely.

  30. #30
    ineespenes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Tromsoe
    Posts
    3,700
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    I love the parfum of Mitsouko,but can't stand the edt.This was last year,smelled it at the airport.They don't sell Mitsouko at my local store Anyway,I love the parfum since it does not have too much of the peachy aldehydic and sweet smell to it.I find the parfum more woody,which I love.My quetsion is,does the new version have more woodyness to it or is it basically the same secnt?(only more synthetic...)

  31. #31

    purplebird7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    2,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Compared to the old 1970s version?
    More woodiness.
    It is still a quality perfume, not synthetic smelling.
    However, the focus has moved away from the peach.
    That is why I say, if you like the wood part, it is changing in your favor. If you seek the peach, you have to wait for it to come out. In the old one, it was there, BANG, right from the start, with less wood.
    If the new EDT smelled bad to you, it was probably those harsh notes in the beginning, but they do go away.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 16th February 2007 at 01:26 PM.

  32. #32

    narcus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Königl. Preussen
    Posts
    4,579
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Turin published a couple of things about Mitsouko, and LVMH messing with Guerlain formulas at various places in the summer of 2005. The echo within basenotes had then been surprisingly minimal.

    http://www.flexitral.com/research/Blogtextweb.pdf
    Search here for 'Mitsouko', 'Isabelle Rousseau'. On pages 31..32 of that archived blog you will find the copy of an official letter of Guerlain Public Relations Managress to a Turin blog poster concerning oakmoss and other raw materials supposedly removed from traditional Guerlain perfumes.

    I am surprised that the contents of this letter have then not been discussed further in Luca's bloc. Is it perhaps possible that Turin's exciting appeal in June 2005 'The downfall of the house of Guerlain' has not been based on solid facts? It would make sense to start another e-mail activity with Guerlain, or at least pick up that Guerlain statement in view of more recent developments, if there are facts, not rumors.
    Last edited by narcus; 11th March 2007 at 06:58 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  33. #33

    purplebird7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    2,313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Hi Narcus.
    Absolutely, I agree with you. I, myself. wonder the same thing.
    Perfume houses seem to be evasive with their answers.

    For example: every time I call Chanel to see if some classic is being discontinued (because it is sold only in EDT in the U.S., or because it must be special-ordered my mail) I am told all the proper, comforting things: No, no, it is still current, the sales representative has not heard about any plans to discontinue or reformulate.

    Another example: I wrote Balmain about Jolie Madame, because oakmoss was not listed in the contents. After months of waiting, they replied that the formula had not been changed. But I know the bottle had been changed. And aren't there regulations that require oakmoss to be listed on the box?

    I doubt we would hear the truth from Guerlain about reformulation. These things should be signalled with a newly-styled bottle, a label, or a name change, but they rarely are. Of course, one has already spent one's money and opened the bottle by the time one finds out. Then it is too late for returns and refunds. It discourages me from further purchases of my lovely, old-shool Chypres. What will I encounter in my next bottle of Miss Dior?

    Luca Turins blog started an avalanche of e-mails to Guerlain about the reformulation of Mitsouko. However, after a nasty flame-war about natural perfumery (unrelated to Mitsouko, but pertinent to the oakmoss controversy and safety regulations) the blog was closed. (Mr. Turin was given some natural rose fragrances, and he commented unfavorably on them, starting a 'natural vs synthetic controvery.) Since then, I have been unable to find "official" news from Guerlain.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 10th March 2007 at 03:08 PM.

  34. #34

    Wink Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    I've only tested this fragrance once in Bloomies, and it was pretty. My sister loves it, (remember, the more sophisticated one) I smelled alot of peach in it, and I really don't like peach in a fragrance. Other than that, it was nice. I smelled it the other day, but just through the cap. I need to spray this on again, to comment further.

  35. #35

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7
    I subtitle this "The Sad Evolution of Mitsouko." In it, I attempt to side-by-side compare old and new formulations, samples of my own and provided by various people.......
    The current changes are bad, but the wost change happened decades ago.
    Purplebird - Were you able to compare different vintages of the pure perfume? I purchased a mini perfume (boxed and sealed) from an on-line store front that smells exactly like the new EDP.

    I have a vintage EDC (based on the bottle, 1970s) and a decant of pure perfume from a trusted ebayer/basenoter that smell similar to each other. The but the new perfume smells nothing like the perfume decant. Do you know if formulation of the pure perfume has been changed also?
    Last edited by BlueIsis; 10th March 2007 at 05:45 PM.

  36. #36

    narcus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Königl. Preussen
    Posts
    4,579
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7
    1: Luca Turins blog started an avalanche of e-mails to Guerlain about the reformulation of Mitsouko.
    2: However, after a nasty flame-war about natural perfumery (unrelated to Mitsouko, but pertinent to the oakmoss controversy and safety regulations) the blog was closed. (Mr. Turin was given some natural rose fragrances, and he commented unfavorably on them, starting a 'natural vs synthetic controvery.) ...
    A few more questions, Purplebird, if you will allow please:

    ad1:
    Has that been in reported by Bnoters too? I knew some BNs were also in the Turin community. But I never read anything about the magnitude of the e-mail campaign, not even if you could consider it a 'campaign' at all. (How about reviving it based on the recent changes? I suspect that Guerlain does not publish anything about their process of slow dilutions on purpose. There is always a hope that things might go by unnoticed. I am sure they hired specialists to camouflage anything they do which is seen as a devaluation. And their customer relations staff are in the front line of the image defense. The new owners inherited triple A consumer rating, honestly built during two centuries. Naturally, Guerlain are not the only ones. The trend to water down, or replace precious ingredients (at same price levels) can be observed with most products of a lot of perfume houses. More than constantly new generations of average consumers, we perfume addicts are the ones that should give common dissatisfaction a voice, at least make it known that we smell a difference between new and old bottles of the holy grail.

    ad 2
    : The nasty flame war - that was not between Turin and Guerlain, but between Turin and some small scale perfume sellers/producers among his own posters, correct? I had the impression Turin condidered the blog a waste of time in the end. He seemed tired of getting pestered by always the same persons, although he was very gentlemanly and polite about that. Who gave him rose water - do you remember?
    Last edited by narcus; 11th March 2007 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  37. #37

    Question Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Interesting.

    I just bought the Extrait from 1967 in ebay. Oddly enough...it seems centered around the vetiver/woods...not so peachy as the one i smelled in 2001, 2002. Perhaps, it went peachy in the 70's and know they are going for earlier versions like mine from the 1967.

    I use to get a lot of compliments...but not so much form the vintage 1967...if anything I got a bad one.


    Go figure!

  38. #38

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by ManlyScent View Post
    Interesting.

    I just bought the Extrait from 1967 in ebay. Oddly enough...it seems centered around the vetiver/woods...not so peachy as the one i smelled in 2001, 2002. Perhaps, it went peachy in the 70's and know they are going for earlier versions like mine from the 1967.

    I use to get a lot of compliments...but not so much form the vintage 1967...if anything I got a bad one.


    Go figure!
    my extrait vintage from the early 80's is totally patchouli galore, centered around earthier notes and the radiance of real ambregris. the one I have from 2001 is so watered down in comparaison, less elegant and mysterious, harsher top notes.

  39. #39
    ineespenes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Tromsoe
    Posts
    3,700
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    I eventually broke down and bought a bottle of the edt.On me it smells quite peachy,but the peach quickly blends in and you get a more earthy feel to it.Still very peachy,though.On the bottom of my bottle it says "4J 01"...Can this possibly be the older version?A part of me hopes it's the newer one,since I really adore it...

  40. #40

    Default Re: Mitsouko - Comparison of Old and New Formulas

    Quote Originally Posted by ineespenes View Post
    On the bottom of my bottle it says "4J 01"...Can this possibly be the older version?A part of me hopes it's the newer one,since I really adore it...
    definitely means 2001 but not sure about 4J

    my old vintage says nothing and my second extrait says PR 36K

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •