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  1. #1
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Question Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    I bought vintage Arpege pure Parfum on Ebay and it has cloudy bits suspended in it. It came sealed with cord on the neck and inside a box but not in cellophane. It is maybe 20-30yrs old. Since the seller didn't describe the cloudy juice and it didn't show up in the photo, I wonder if I should send it back before opening it. In other words, Is it likely spoiled? This stuff looks like feathery little cloudy globs. it's evenly dispersed and suspended in the solution. The color is not too dark, though. I appreciate your expertise.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    Like many oldies, this one might have gone through some bad times, and the juice -assuming that it's an original- might have changed, we'll never know for sure what has happened to it, if it was exposed to the sun or extreme temperatures or anything else.
    I have come in contact with Arpège bottles that had pristine-looking yellow liquids that have never seen the sun and were older than 30 years and they didn't have any clouds in it.
    Now that one fragrance has a few clouds doesn't entirely, or necessarily mean that it got spoiled, maybe the chemistry inside was playing tricks and they got re-formed. In any case, it depends on the way it was stored and what has been done to it.
    Many oldies tend to "macerate" over time, sometimes that changes the scent, sometimes it doesn't.
    More likely than not though, it changes the scent. The older the bottle, in general,the more "natural" the ingredients are (and that's a very wide "in general" so don't take it too literally), and thus the chances to change over time are increased.
    Maybe the bottle you got is even older than what the seller said it was.
    Me, i like an oldie very much, cloudy or non-cloudy. And the older the better!
    Hope that helped,
    cheers

  3. #3
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    Thanks for your input. I have to admit I'm dying to try it. It was around $60 I think so I didn't want to be reckless. It sounds like you think I might as well give it a try. The seller didn't know how old it was. It must be pretty old because the box is yellowed.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    Hehe. I would open it, too.
    Not that I want to influence you...
    How about some more advice from the experts?

    Vintage perfume buyers, do tell, has anyone opened a cloudy bottle and gotten rewarded with a great fragrance?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    I forgot to add that if the juice doesn't look yellow, if it looks darker yellow or even ambery, it's just a natural process. If the box is yellowed with black (or blackened) corners with a print of woman and child in black too on the front, the bottle is square, and the cap is flat, black but square too and has the woman and child engraved on top, the bottle might be very old.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    I was reading about vintage recently-maybe since late last week-am trying to remember which of the many sites I visit had the information. The cloudy bits will not distord the fragrance at all-hang on-am going to try Bois de Jasmin, to see if that is where i read about it. Will be back shortly.

  7. #7
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    Yes, the cap is black glass (probably) and the woman is deeply carved into it. It comes with a presentation box with black edges with a woman & child raised printed on top. The bottom of box says Lanvin- Paris, Arpege-Extrait. On the bottom of bottle is Lanvin Paris and an embossed star. The box is inside another plain white cardboard box, also yellowed. It looks like it may have been in a drugstore rather than a home.I'm noticing the cloudiness is gone. It must have been the cold from being in the mail. Now I only see small particles of sediment suspended throughout.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    No, it wasn't spoiled.
    We opened it. Kumquat shared this honor with me.
    It was a tense moment--the little black thread, the actual cutting, the point of no return.
    And then... The stopper was stuck. Couldn't budge it. Firmly affixed to the bottle. What to do?
    Well, she had a great idea. Turn the bottle upside down and go have tea.
    Later...
    Voilà, the stopper came out, and we had access to the juice, the real, the vintage Apege.
    First whiff--aldehydes, and then a mellow blend of too-many-to-count florals, so very womanly. This was a perfume in the day that women weren't afraid to be grown-ups. It impressed me that today people might be tempted to call this an "old lady perfume." But do you see how attitudes have changed? It smelled like the same, heady perfume back then, too. Why do women want to smell like girls? If this is "old lady" I say, bring it on.
    Boy, va-va-va-voom. I drove home with my nose dangerously buried in my arm, sniffing, sniffing, and not being able to pick out any individual notes, just a cascade of florals.
    Notes of the original Arpege are indolic white florals, jasmine, rose, musk, and sandalwood. ( If anyone knows more, specifically, please post them. )
    It was rich and blended, after all that time stewing in the bottle, and so very classic and perfumy. The 1993 remake contains:bergamot, aldehydes, peach, orange blossom, honeysuckle, iris; rose, jasmine, ylang-ylang, coriander, mimosa, tuberose, Parma violet, geranium; sandalwood, vetiver, patchouli, vanilla, musk.
    At the end I smelled...osmanthus. And, I know, I know, there is no osmanthus in there. Maybe it was a peach note working with the florals. Anyway it sure was a treat. Thanks kumquat, you champion e-bayer.

  9. #9
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    Thanks for looking up those notes, Purplebird. I had a hard time grasping any one note. The blend is so artful. The sandalwood and jasmine are intense but not overly sweet or insistent. There is a distinct peach note in the middle. In the end I think it's the enigmatic ylang ylang that lingers with the musk and deeper spices.

    The vintage extrait is certainly deeper and mellower than the reformulation. I tried to get that sense-memory of my mother's 'best' perfume from the latest EDP back in 2000. It was sharp, thin and metallic.

    Thanks to everyone for their advice. At least now I know what frozen perfume looks like!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    I am very glad that it wasn't spoiled!
    One important point here is that you have experienced the older -to some the better- formula of vintage Arpège, wich is a fantastic scent in itself.
    The newer formula -wich i like better- is very attractive as well, but it lacks a certain old-era quality to it that makes it very alluring to people who like vintage scents.
    For purists, of course, any reformulation is a faux-pas.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    So, do you think the new one merits the name "Arpege?" In other words, does it smell mostly similar to the original?
    Sometimes I wonder if perfumers are only cashing in on the name for marketing reasons when they reformulate and move too far away from the original aroma. What is the case for the new Arpege?

    Edited, Added Later:
    I see a related thread about Arpege on the forum, so may I quote castorpollux here? "The newer version (reformulated in 93 or so) was very respectful of the old formula."
    Last edited by purplebird7; 22nd February 2007 at 03:16 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    I'm happy that the juice is still good, and I'm so glad to see this discussion of Arpege -- I bought some vintage on Ebay (not the parfum, sadly), and I really like the sharp aldehydes and then the lovely, spicy florals that emerge.

    The other day my mother-in-law came for a visit and wanted to try it. Apparently my recently deceased father-in-law used to buy it for her long ago when he traveled to Europe. She never fell in love with it but wore it dutifully. Still, it was quite a moment to share with her...

  13. #13

    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    What a nice opportunity!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Cloudy vintage Lanvin--Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7
    Edited, Added Later:
    I see a related thread about Arpege on the forum, so may I quote castorpollux here? "The newer version (reformulated in 93 or so) was very respectful of the old formula."
    Yes, that's my word and i'm sticking to it...
    but seriously, i'm glad you saw it.

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