An experience with eBay's no-decants policy

[theimportsguy]

Hi there!!, this is my first post, i just registered. Many of you should know me, i run The European Imports Store on Ebay, i'm theimportsguy, i guess i am the only mexican member, spanish is my primary language and please forgive me if i write something "misspelled". I know that is not an excuse since most of you speak many languages but i will try to do my best.
I have been succesfully selling vintage fragances for over a year now, i've been told i'm the largest and greatest vintage perfume seller ever (thank you!), anyway, i could start a new thread with the origin of my inventory, but i will get to the point.
About 5-6 months i started decanting samples, due to many request from many buyers, and in February a Lancome Climat sample was suspended, this was the reason:

You are not permitted to sell items on eBay bearing the name or logo of
a company if the product has not been endorsed by that company. In
addition, the sale of counterfeit items and unauthorized copies is
prohibited by law; therefore we cannot permit these items to be listed
on eBay.

This policy helps protect buyers from purchasing counterfeit or
fraudulent items and helps protect the intellectual property rights of
third parties. In addition to site policy enforcement, selling limits
are occasionally placed on accounts based on previous violations related
to intellectual property to maintain a safe trading environment.

As always, our goal is to keep the eBay marketplace a safe place to buy
and sell. Under our User Agreement, we may remove listings if they
breach one of our stated policies. Further, we may warn or suspend
sellers whose activities breach our policies.

I encourage you to read the information available on our Help pages
about why we may remove items from the eBay site. Please visit...bla, bla, bla

An then i tough?, i am not selling fake items, this has to be a mistake, at that time i had over 800 items listed and they only suspended one, so without asking i decided to relist it, and after a couple of days the auction was ended early and i received the same explanation from ebay.

Then i emailed ebay customer service explaining the situation and this was the answer:

Thank you for writing eBay in regards to your removed decant sample.
According to German law, new, original cosmetic products may only be
sold in their original packaging. The offering of new perfumes or
cosmetic products without the original packaging or caps (including
so-called testers, minis, showcase, decants or demonstration products)
on the German eBay Platform, or with availability to Germany, is not
permitted.

Please keep this in mind when listing items and choosing locations to
which you will ship to.

Also, a new ruling indicates that in order to sell any perfumes or
cosmetics to Germany you must include the following in your auction:

-A full refund. You must indicate that you will carry the return
shipping costs as well as a full refund of the purchase price. ***Note:
you must accept returns if offering to Germany. ?no returns?, ?all sales
final? will have your auction removed from the site.

-Name and if applicable your business name. You need to have both
listed.

-Address. This is your full address for returns.

If it does not include all of these in the body of the auction, or a
disclaimer stating that you will not ship to Germany the auction may be
removed.

Thank you for your understanding.

Then, i had to correct all my sample-decants listings, which took me some time because i had about 30 at that time, then suddenly, another listing was ended and they gave me "German return policy thing", because i forgot to put the "money back"...

After that, i tried to list some Guerlain and Christian Dior items, and i had to go trough a 15 minute tutorial to be able to list them. After the tutorial, i was only able to list 4 Guerlain items and after that, i was unable to list Guerlain, Christian Dior, Lancome and Lanvin, after sending many emails to ebay, i got this answer:

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your account restrictions.

Due to a number of violations of eBay Policy, a restriction was placed
on your account to prohibit you from selling certain trademarked items.
Upon review of your account, we have determined that the restriction was
placed appropriately and will remain in place indefinitely.

Should you wish to appeal, please write back to us in 6 months. At that
time we will review your account to determine if the restriction will be
lifted.

You are not permitted to sell items on eBay bearing the name or logo of
a company if the product has not been endorsed by that company...again, the same sh..t.

Whata...??, 6 months not able to list my top 4 selling brands?? i emailed this:

Yes i have been receiving this "trademark violations" emails but i never

violated any trademarks, there has to be a mistake, please check again
or
just let me know where was the violation and why i am being restricted
from
my top two selling brands instead of any of the other 100 different
brands
that i have in my ebay store. I feel i am beeing threated like a seller
that
sells fake items and vilolated trademarks policies, but i haven't,
please
verify my situation and you will find that all of my problems where
caused
by the "new German law" that came out that states that money back
refunds
have to be offered in order to ship to Gemany and that samples or
decanted
perfumes can't be sold in Germany. I never broke a trademark policy,
this
new German laws is what affected me and i don't find any sense on
restricting me from listing Chanel and Christian Dior items due to that,
why
these two top selling brands???, why not other or at least the ones that

where involved in the listing suspensions?, why don you just restrict me

from selling items to Germany??, there is where i broke the policy, not
in
the rest of the world. What i did was perfectly legal anywhere else but
in
Germany, i find this situation extremely unfair and senseless, please
verify
again and let me know if there is something that can be done before the
6
month wait, thanks, theimportsguy.

Then i got this:

Thank you for taking the time to write to eBay regarding the selling
limits that you recently encountered on your eBay account.

In order to maintain a safe trading environment, a restriction was
placed on your account to limit you from selling certain items. After
further review, this restriction has now been lifted.

Thank you for being a valuable member of the eBay community. Have a
wonderful time shopping and selling on eBay!

And i lived happily ever after...


As you can conclude, restrictions are placed when you violate rules from certain countries, for now, it is ilegal to sell samples in Germany, but legal in the rest of the world. It appears that it will be ilegal soon in the US, has anybody of the ebay sellers received an alerting email from Ebay??, dragonfly00??, because i haven't, but that's because i am registered in Mexico, and that means that in the future, in the shipping options i shouldn't choose Germany and, if it is true, US, but i can ship to Asia, UK, Canada... everywhere else, while it lasts!!, so a tip i shouldn't give to my competitors, but i will due the histerical situation here, register in another country, or don't choose the shipping option to countries where it is not legal, like Germany and US, at this time.

Another thing you need to understand here is that what is causing this trouble are not the Fragance companies, it is not about the decants, it is about:

Please keep in mind that you are not permitted to sell items on
eBay bearing the name or logo of a company if the product has not been
made or authorized by that company. In addition, the sale of counterfeit
items, unauthorized replicas and unauthorized copies is prohibited by
law, and therefore cannot be listed on eBay. Please note that it is the
seller's responsibility to ensure that the items you are listing are
authorized for sale.

I feel it is understandable that it is ilegal at some point to sell a perfume in a presentation that wasn't AUTHORIZED by the company, how many of you have seen the sample vials that i am not sure if they still give them (but i have thousands of them), where it says:
VENTE INTERDITE-NOT FOR SALE-PROHIBIDA SU VENTA
ECHANTILLON VENTE INTERDITE
ECHANTILLON GRATUIT-NE PEUT ETRE VENDU

Any of this phrases familiar??, i beleive that the companies don't give any free vial samples anymore, didn't they where replaced with wet wipes and magazine pages "scratch here" or something like that?

It is not like selling the pages of a book like somebody mentioned, it's like selling a book with other book's pages or phrases in it. There are copyrights, and that is what ebay is protecting, or that is why other companies are bothering ebay for, not necesarely fragance companies, but many other clothing, electronics or software companies.

Well, i hope i get a point here!, sorry if my post was boring or confusing, but don't be worried, i can still list decants (for now), and if i get restricted, i might move to ebay Zimbabwe (if it exists) but i think that to restrict decants in Mexico, won't be that easy!, and Grant, you should check if Ebay.uk is not restricted for listing decants, at least Basenotes shouldn't have a problem. The only problem in the case of ebay, when decants being legal in certain sites-countries, those listings will only be available for those countries, but you can list other items legal world wide, and then in the description invite buyers to visit your ebay store.

And one last thing, i am curious on how this decant "shut down" thing started, other than "a seller told me", who received the ebay message-alert? or where is this information officially posted??, because as you can see, ebay doesn't alert sellers, they just suspend your lisitngs, explain why and then penalize you, they don't alert you or guide you first.

OK, too many tips, the only payback i ask for you guys is to visit my ebay store!!

http://stores.ebay.com/THE-EUROPEAN-...rtsstoreQQtZkm

[Eluard]

Hi the importsguy — I am one of your Australian customers! And a happy one at that.

This makes me rather glad that I bought my obviously bootlegged Rolling Stones Mono CDs a year or so ago. I don't think they'd exist now.

Ebay has gotten too big — they no longer have any real idea what they are doing.

[Buffalo_Gals]

Hi Jamie
Here's the progression of things. 2 decant sellers were directly contacted by ebay letting them know a policy change was coming down the pike & that decants would no longer be allowed on Ebay USA. One of these decanters posted this on MUA. I saw the post so I immediately called my powerseller reps.....The Rep stated that yes.....the info I heard was true....No more decants on Ebay but she was not sure when they would be announcing it on the general announcements board.....I'm still waiting for that to happen.....so far it has not. So at least I can say i heard it from the horse's mouth but I am not sure why they haven't implemented the change or when they will implement the change. I was told there would be an official announcement. That's all I know up to this point.

Diane

[Latch35]

theimportsguy, as a long time browser of your store, I'd just like to say that you have some great stuff in there, especially the old Guerlains. It's great that you have this supply and sell them at a decent price.

Good luck with your store.

Regarding E-bay UK, any negative feedback I have seen regarding decants, incurred by sellers, has been that people didn't receive a big bottle, eg. "not much for £10.00", this despite the auctions/b.i.n clearly stating the size on offer. Again, people not paying attention and reading the listing in a thorough manner, possibly causing problems. Maybe.

[dimples]

OK, too many tips, the only payback i ask for you guys is to visit my ebay store!!

http://stores.ebay.com/THE-EUROPEAN-...rtsstoreQQtZkm

Hey theimportsguy,
I already had your store bookmarked and have been waiting for the opportunity to make a nice purchase from you.
Definitely some nice stuff there.

[Mikey Q]

Thanks for the info guy. I did visit your store...interesting stuff. I noticed the following attached to one of your listings:

"YOU ARE BIDDING ON A VINTAGE RARE 8 OZ EMPTY BOTTLE OF OLIVIER CREED EAU DE COLOGNE FOR MEN. THIS IS A VERY RARE HARD TO FIND BOTTLE. IT HAS A PRICE TAG OF $5.75 "OLIVIER CREED" WAS OLIVIER'S FIRST CREATION AT THE AGE OF 21 WITH THE HELP OF HIS FATHER JAMES HENRY IN 1968. THERE IS AN UNKNOWN TRADITION AT THE CREED FAMILY WHERE THE FIRST MALE DESCENDANT, BESIDES HAVING THE NAME HENRY (ALONG WITH ANY OTHER), HAS TO CREATE A NEW FRAGANCE AT THE AGE OF 21. OF COURSE THIS IS AN AUTHENTIC BOTTLE, I DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR THE NOSE OF OLIVIER TO MAKE A COPY OF HIS UNIQUE CREATIONS, EVEN WHEN I DO HAVE THE TIME TO MAKE UP SOME STORIES. LOL.. BOX HAS SOME DAMAGE BUT BOTTLE LABEL IS IN GOOD CONDITION, CAP MIGHT NEED SOME CLEANING IN ORDER TO SCREW IT ALL THE WAY IN, IT HAS SOME DRIED COLOGNE. MAYBE YOU CAN JUST FILL IT WITH YOUR FAVORITE FRAGANCE OR YOU COULD EVEN FILL IT WITH SCOTCH AND SELL IT TO A CREEDY-HYSTERIC FROM BASENOTE'S, I MEAN BASENOTES, I'M SURE THEY WOULDN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. LOL! JUST KIDDING! THANKS FOR LOOKING!"

There's certainly something to be said for things becoming "lost in cultural translation"...you might want to consider that comments about "Creedy-hysterics" might end up working against the positive advertising impact you seek when you post on our Bulletin Board.

Best regards...

[fredricktoo]

"LOL, just kidding" defuses it for me.

Hi importsguy! I'm the a**hole who's been posting the Creed info here for people to look at. They are quite unique if the cognescento here are stumped.

Good to have you and I'd appreciate any Basenotes discount you're thinking of applying to your listings

Gary

[DustB]

I've split these posts off another thread from another of the site's forums. While the new member's post clearly informs the site's membership of a topic of fragrance shopping and dealing, there are also parts of the post that violate Basenotes rules on advertising to the membership.
--Chris

2.10 No soliciting or advertising

Posts or Private Messages which are designed purely to solicit or promote a business or website are not permitted without prior agreement. This includes the use of whisper campaigns. We realise that many members may have businesses which may be of interest to our visitors but please remember that people come here to discuss, not to be sold to in threads. If you have a product or service you wish to advertise contact us at news.desk@basenotes.net and we will consider mentioning it on the main website.

We do allow discrete links in signatures, and you may respond to a thread if your business provides a product or service that provides an answer to a members problem. Do not abuse this privilege - the majority of your posts should be about participating in the community in general.

[theimportsguy]

I knew that somebody was going to come out with the basenotes comment i did on the Creed cologne ebay listing. Only a member that participated on the BN Olivier Creed Cologne discussion would understand why i did that comment, actually fredricktoo started a new thread about this particular comment, if you go trough the first Creed thread, you will notice I was called many things, people like Mike, pluran, cuyahogaJoe and my great customer rach2jlc, did good and intelligent comments. But there where others that made some comments that at some point where offensive (to me in my "cultural transation"). My ebay comment was directed to those ones, of course not the the ones that know me, i tought it would be funny, and it was for some of you, but to others, it wasn't, my apologies.
Also sorry for violating rule 2.10, i was so excited making my first post and trying to help that, honestly, i didn't read all the rules, who does??
Actually i got to basenotes because i found out that last week was the sixth search engine that brought more visitors to my ebay store, behind ebay.com, ebay.co.uk, ebay.de, ebay.ca and ebay.com.au, and that thanks to fredricktoo and the Olivier bottle, i own you a gift Gary!!, maybe a decant of Olivier Creed EDT & EDC!!, would that be ok??, maybe i could add a decant of Johnny Walker and if you tell me which is which i will give you another price!!, LOL!! Just kidding again, I know you will laugh!

So my first post was taken where?? i think it would be easier and more useful if left here in this thread with the last phrase eliminated, wouldn't be??

[narcus]

I have moved my post from An experience with eBay's no-decants policy to
Ebay to shut down all decant sales on the masculine fragrance board, because
thats where the main traffic is (as always).
narcus

[thenmarcher]

Import Guy, you make me laugh. Welcome.

I'll take a decant of Johnny Walker. Along with my free piece of paper.

TNMA