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  1. #1

    Default Nicotine in Tabarome?



    I am convinced that tabarome (both old and new) contain nicotine. When I spray on a lot of New Tabarome, I get the same feeling I used to get from inhaling cigar smoke . A nicotine rush, I'm sure of it. It took me ages to work out what it was, I was feeling stimulated but had not had caffeine.

    The plus side is that it indicates natural tobacco in the fragrances.

    This may be a hazard to ex-smokers (like me) or maybe a great smelling alternative to nicotine patches?

    Thoughts anyone?
    "Donít try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. Ē - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Um, not likely. If you get any kind of rush I'm sure its a psychosymatic association with smoking. Even if the tobacco notes in tabarome are actually derived from real tobacco, the idea that the same process that extracts the nice aroma also grabs the nicotine is unlikely. And even then, there really isn't much nicotine in "proper" tobacco. Modern cigarette tobacco is a far cry from the stuff of cigars.

    I say enjoy your associations, but don't let it tempt you into smoking again. Although, smoking the occational cigar is really not the worst vice one can have - especially if your cigar smoking is in pursuit of genuine connoisseurship rather than a habitual crutch.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Quote Originally Posted by FatTony View Post
    Um, not likely. If you get any kind of rush I'm sure its a psychosymatic association with smoking. Even if the tobacco notes in tabarome are actually derived from real tobacco, the idea that the same process that extracts the nice aroma also grabs the nicotine is unlikely. And even then, there really isn't much nicotine in "proper" tobacco. Modern cigarette tobacco is a far cry from the stuff of cigars.

    I say enjoy your associations, but don't let it tempt you into smoking again. Although, smoking the occational cigar is really not the worst vice one can have - especially if your cigar smoking is in pursuit of genuine connoisseurship rather than a habitual crutch.
    Thanks for your comments.

    Maybe you are correct, but I was getting the stimulating effect long before it occurred to me that this may be the reason, and I continued to observe if afterwards.

    If the tobacco is infused in any way it seems quite plausible that the nicotine may also be soluble?
    "Donít try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. Ē - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  4. #4

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    I love Caron's Tabac Blond extrait, but don't wear it much as it makes me crave a cigarette quite badly. I don't expect it is due to nicoteine being absorbed into my skin by any means though.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    The Tabarome duo should then come with the surgeon general's warning !
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    I don't know anything about nicotine, but I'll agree that there is something very stimulating about Tabarome Millesime. I don't wear it often, because though I like it, there's something weird about it that makes me afraid to wear it in public. Whenever I do spray some on, I get this feeling like I'm going slightly hyperactive. My breathing becomes more shallow and I get fidgety.

    This is one scent that I don't know when to wear. To me, it strikes me as neither formal nor casual. Really a baffling scent. Maybe I'll wear it to work tonight.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    I have noticed that the tobacco note in New Tabarome is different from the one used in the vintage. I am not well versed with the various kinds of tobacco leaves, cigs and cigars, but I do notice that the tobacco note in new Tabarome smells more "raw" and is strangely appealing especially when infused with the ginger and citrus notes.

    Perhaps someone here can further comment on the tobacco ingredients used in the two Tabaromes and perfumery in general.
    -

  8. #8

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indie_Guy View Post
    I don't know anything about nicotine, but I'll agree that there is something very stimulating about Tabarome Millesime. I don't wear it often, because though I like it, there's something weird about it that makes me afraid to wear it in public. Whenever I do spray some on, I get this feeling like I'm going slightly hyperactive. My breathing becomes more shallow and I get fidgety.

    This is one scent that I don't know when to wear. To me, it strikes me as neither formal nor casual. Really a baffling scent. Maybe I'll wear it to work tonight.

    That's exactly it. That is what I think is a nicotine effect. Precisely how I experience it.
    Last edited by hirch_duckfinder; 11th May 2007 at 06:10 PM.
    "Donít try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. Ē - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

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  9. #9

    wicozani's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    I would have to guess that this may be possible. Perhaps Creed has "enfleuraged" leaf tobacco for Tabarome Milliseme? If so, it would be interesting to learn what type of tobacco, from where, at what stage in the plant's growth it is used, what components are extracted, etc.

    Regardless, nicotine is readily absorbed through the skin, though peak achievable blood concentrations are lower than with smoking. At small blood concentrations nicotine acts as a stimulant, while at higher concentrations it (nicotine) then has relaxative effects; pretty much the same as for ethanol.

    Jeff
    Last edited by wicozani; 11th May 2007 at 06:43 PM.

  10. #10
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    I've smoked a lot of Cubans and worn a lot of both Tabaromes. I think you could drink several ounces of each and have little if any detectable nicotine in your system.The prominent ginger in New Tabarome has a warm, stimulating effect on the skin which could be mistaken for a nicotine rush. The ginger also gives the tobacco the fresh, raw smell, whereas Vintage Tabarome is much drier, leathery. Vintage Tabarome contains green tea but I can't see that being all that stimulating. Many ingedients can cause a stimulating feel on the skin, many florals can. The only floral I know of in Vintage Tabarome is iris, but I know there must be something else. The green tea and pepper could be causing the feeling.

    Although cigar tobacco contains a good deal of nicotine, it's generally far less stumulating than that of cigarettes. I smoke neither anymore but when I did and wanted a nicotine buzz, I smoked cigarettes, chewed some Levi Garrett, dipped some Copenhagen etc. Copenhagen's like speed - pure nicotine. Was never addicted to any of it. Got tired of inhaling smoke into my mouth and lungs, or having raw tobacco my mouth.
    Last edited by pluran; 11th May 2007 at 07:39 PM. Reason: Souce Connection

  11. #11

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?


    hirch_duckfinder,

    As far as I know, tobacco absolute used in perfumery has the nicotine removed. Also, nicotine is odorless. What you're smelling when you smoke tobacco or in the two Creed taboromes is tobacco, not nicotine.

    scentemental



  12. #12

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post

    hirch_duckfinder,

    As far as I know, tobacco absolute used in perfumery has the nicotine removed. Also, nicotine is odorless. What you're smelling when you smoke tobacco or in the two Creed taboromes is tobacco, not nicotine.

    scentemental


    Thanks, I know that nicotine is odourless. I am quite clear that nicotine is one chemical amongst a great many in tobacco. It is addictive and the body gains tolerance to it fairly rapidly. To an individual without acquired tolerance, it has a profound effect on body chemistry. It has a stimulating effect and can cause shortness of breath, sweating, dizzyness and fidgetiness (slightlysimilar to the effects of caffeine). Many people will remember these effects from when they smoked for the first time, or after a long break. I would like to think you are correct scentemental, about the nicotine being removed from tobacco absolute, however in this case I wonder if that is true. I would add that on the occasions I have experienced this, I have used a lot of cologne, refreshing often. The fact the Indie_guy has experienced similar is interesting.
    Last edited by hirch_duckfinder; 11th May 2007 at 10:36 PM. Reason: typo
    "Donít try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. Ē - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  13. #13

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indie_Guy View Post
    I don't know anything about nicotine, but I'll agree that there is something very stimulating about Tabarome Millesime. I don't wear it often, because though I like it, there's something weird about it that makes me afraid to wear it in public. Whenever I do spray some on, I get this feeling like I'm going slightly hyperactive. My breathing becomes more shallow and I get fidgety.

    This is one scent that I don't know when to wear. To me, it strikes me as neither formal nor casual. Really a baffling scent. Maybe I'll wear it to work tonight.
    Watch out for those reactions, that actually means you're sensitive/allergic to something in the fragrance. Changes in breathing are the number one warning flag for fragrance allergy. I'd recommend not wearing it anymore or the symptoms would probably get worse over time.

    That said, as far as I know the nicotine has been extracted out of all the tobacco oils used in perfumery. There shouldn't be any in there.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Does this listing indicate that theres some nicotine in this tobacco absolute from Bulgaria ?

    http://www.bpg.bg/bulgarianrose/esse...8af6ee6dd885e7

    Some more information from osMoz:

    http://www.osmoz.com/encyclo/matiere...NGUE=en&ID=139

    It seems that if a high concentration of tobacco absolute is used, it can bump up the naturally occurring nicotine content.
    Last edited by zztopp; 12th May 2007 at 01:30 AM.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    My guess would be that the ginger has more to do with it than nicotine. Nicotine is a very deadly poison (the LD/50 is something like 45 or 50 mg/kg). I know that real ginger ale (the spicy kind that is actually ginger ale, not the schweppes crap) can make me feel the way you are describing.

    NIcotine is one of those things that I doubt would just be in something without being labelled as such. It would be like putting epinephrine or something in a fragrance- it doesn't add anything to the smell, but it carries a hefty health risk.


    I'll have to add another vote for the 'psychosomatic' camp, or provisionally to the allergy camp.


    -b
    Nihil Obstat Ben


    [url=http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/1883]My Wardrobe[/url]

  16. #16

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    The Tobacco absolutes I have come across were all labeled nicotine free, and I think it's common for the use in perfumery. I can't imagine bigger companies would use it with nicotine, but why not ask them directly? I can imagine that the mere scent of tobacco is already very inviting to an ex smoker.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Quote Originally Posted by wicozani View Post
    I would have to guess that this may be possible. Perhaps Creed has "enfleuraged" leaf tobacco for Tabarome Milliseme? If so, it would be interesting to learn what type of tobacco, from where, at what stage in the plant's growth it is used, what components are extracted, etc.

    Regardless, nicotine is readily absorbed through the skin, though peak achievable blood concentrations are lower than with smoking. At small blood concentrations nicotine acts as a stimulant, while at higher concentrations it (nicotine) then has relaxative effects; pretty much the same as for ethanol.

    Jeff
    The tobacco used by Creed comes from Virginia, which is known to us smokers as having the highest nicotine content in the world.

    Actually, since the tobacco leaf and flower (Creed uses both) are macerated by hand and infused in ethanol (in this case distilled from sugar beets, so pretty pure stuff) it is possible that some residual nicotine does make it's way through to one's skin if it is a) applied over areas of skin where veins are close enough to the surface and b) the wearer applies quite a bit. It doesn't take much nicotine to affect humans; it's actually a potent neurotoxin, an an eyedropper full of pure nicotine will likely be enough to kill a horse.

    CJ
    Last edited by CJ; 14th May 2007 at 05:20 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Shirley Jackson wrote "The Lottery" which generated more mail for a short story appearing in the New Yorker than any other. The mail also wasn't all positve. She wrote "The Haunting of Hill House" which is a wonderful novella and has been ada[ted for screen more time than well... that's what IMDB is for.

    she also wrote:

    "They say if you soak a cigarette in water overnight the water will be almost pure nicotine by morning, and deadly poisonous. You can put it in coffee and it won't taste". ó
    Shirley Jackson

    it doesn't surprise me that Virginia has the highest potency tobacco, they also grow another very high potency plant.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Would a fragrance containing nicotine not have to contain a health warning?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    This thread may prompt me to fire up my mass spectrometer and have a look-see (I'm a research analytical chemist). I have a reference standard of nicotine, so it should be a fairly straightforward analysis. BTW, the average fatal dose for nicotine in humans is estimated to be 30-60 mg, which is much lower than the 45-40 mg/kg LD50 quoted above. That value is the LD50 in rat, which can differ considerably from the human LD50. Fortunately, one doesn't easily run across pure nicotine. In my lab, we handle it in a Class A fume hood with double nitrile gloves.
    All that said, I agree with Dante - it would seem that a nicotine containing consumer product would be regulated in some way. But on the other hand, look what can be sold under the blanket category of "food supplement."
    Last edited by Snafoo; 16th May 2007 at 01:10 AM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snafoo View Post
    This thread may prompt me to fire up my mass spectrometer and have a look-see (I'm a research analytical chemist). I have a reference standard of nicotine, so it should be a fairly straightforward analysis. BTW, the average fatal dose for nicotine in humans is estimated to be 30-60 mg, which is much lower than the 45-40 mg/kg LD50 quoted above. That value is the LD50 in rat, which can differ considerably from the human LD50. Fortunately, one doesn't easily run across pure nicotine. In my lab, we handle it in a Class A fume hood with double nitrile gloves.
    All that said, I agree with Dante - it would seem that a nicotine containing consumer product would be regulated in some way. But on the other hand, look what can be sold under the blanket category of "food supplement."
    In my opinion, Snafoo, fredericktoo, and Dante are all correct. Sanfoo's spectrometer might actually be useful in this case, if any chemist could figure out how many parts-per-million of nicotine soluble in ethanol could harm a human; personally, I not only think this would be a fascinating study of immense use for the cosmetics industry, but also really cool to know, because I love Tabarome.

    But when looking at regulations for what has to be labelled, I think it has a great deal to do with what is being marketted (i.e., something applied to the skin as opposed to something being inhaled or ingested) as well as where it is being produced. Here in the U.S. they pay much more attention to things you eat, drink, or smoke than they do perfume; in fact, nowadays they consider pretty much anything "organic" to be healthy over here, although most toxins are "organic." Hell, I've got hemlock, mandrake, and mistletoe growing wild in the woods behind my residence here in a Washington D.C. suburb.

    I suppose the best answer would have to come from either a chemist (in a perfect world it would be our friend and fellow-Basenoter Snafoo) or Olivier Creed himself. Either way, I'm still going to wear the stuff, but now I'm curious as to why I (an occasional smoker)love Tabarome and my wife (a rabid non-smoker) does not.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante View Post
    Would a fragrance containing nicotine not have to contain a health warning?
    not unless Congress (USA) mandated it. It wasn't the cigarette company's idea to put warnings, stop advertising on Television etc.

    They did think of covering the side of a 10 story building with an unobstructed view for 20 blocks south with a giant pack of Newports though.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snafoo View Post
    This thread may prompt me to fire up my mass spectrometer and have a look-see (I'm a research analytical chemist). I have a reference standard of nicotine, so it should be a fairly straightforward analysis. BTW, the average fatal dose for nicotine in humans is estimated to be 30-60 mg, which is much lower than the 45-40 mg/kg LD50 quoted above. That value is the LD50 in rat, which can differ considerably from the human LD50. Fortunately, one doesn't easily run across pure nicotine. In my lab, we handle it in a Class A fume hood with double nitrile gloves.
    All that said, I agree with Dante - it would seem that a nicotine containing consumer product would be regulated in some way. But on the other hand, look what can be sold under the blanket category of "food supplement."
    Oh yes, please do it .
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by fredricktoo View Post
    not unless Congress (USA) mandated it. It wasn't the cigarette company's idea to put warnings, stop advertising on Television etc.

    They did think of covering the side of a 10 story building with an unobstructed view for 20 blocks south with a giant pack of Newports though.
    good point and well made.
    Last edited by hirch_duckfinder; 16th May 2007 at 09:15 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    "Donít try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. Ē - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  24. #24

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    The most commonly used "real" tobacco in fragrances is tobacco absolute or concrete, which is the dark syrup resulting from either tincturing or steam distilling tobacco leaves in alcohol and then removing the alcohol from it under vacuum. It is very plausible that this could contain nicotine! Nicotine is water insoluble and alcohol soluble organic compound, so think about adding an alcohol dissolved tincture of tobacco leaf back to an alcohol based perfume!

    Today's marketers of the raw materials that go into perfumes actually sell a "nicotine free tobacco blonde absolute," leading me to believe that the nicotine could have been a problem. Also, consider that ex-smokers' nicotine receptors are presensitized to the effect. Never underestimate what is possible.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Sorry, Hirsch; I never followed up with the mass spec analysis I was hoping to perform. I'm now in another group and no longer have access to a mass spec (for extra-curricular activities at least). Perhaps someday the mystery will be revealed...
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts. Daniel Moynihan

  26. #26

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    Default Re: Nicotine in Tabarome?

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    I have noticed that the tobacco note in New Tabarome is different from the one used in the vintage. I am not well versed with the various kinds of tobacco leaves, cigs and cigars, but I do notice that the tobacco note in new Tabarome smells more "raw" and is strangely appealing especially when infused with the ginger and citrus notes.

    Perhaps someone here can further comment on the tobacco ingredients used in the two Tabaromes and perfumery in general.
    The new Tabarome contains tobacco from Virginia while the old Tabarome contains tobacco from Havana. The soil would account for the different scent. Hope this helps.

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