Code of Conduct

View Poll Results: Italy vs France

Voters
52. You may not vote on this poll
  • Italy

    17 32.69%
  • France

    35 67.31%
Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: France vs Italy

  1. #1

    Default France vs Italy

    And no, I don't mean the Soccer World Cup Final.

    I am an Italian South African and as a result am slightly biased, but I can recognise that the French are slightly better perfumers. My perfume experience is unfortunately limited to designer houses generally.

    The Brits are fairly well represented as well as the Americans and Germans and Japanese, but Italy and France are leagues ahead when it comes to perfumery.

    In General I find French perfumes to be more luxurious and smoother while Italian perfumes have slightly more character.

    I would also love to read feedback on the niche houses coming out of these two countries.

    Which of these two nations would get your nod in terms of perfumery?

    (PS: I am predicting a French landslide victory in this poll, but We'll take the World Cup )

  2. #2

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    there 's no flag perfumes anymore and it 's all for the best!
    ...90% of non-french brands are perfumes created by french nose composers, from Gucci fragrances to Sarah Jessica Parker 's Lovely, creativity is french - we also have russian american nose Sophia Grosjman who woked for french brands like YSL and Lancome...two american companies own the very parisian Annick Goutal and the niche L 'Artisan Parfumeur. LVMH own a lot of foreign (non-french) perfumers and cosmetic lines (all brands sold at Sephora are owned by french corporation LVMH). american Wertheimer family owns 70% of Chanel perfumes.

    in the niche category, Serge Lutens is beyong anything conceptually but here again we don 't have a 100% french line. owned by japanese Shiseido, Serge Lutens is a frenchman who has lived in Morrocco for 30 years.
    Last edited by pierre obsidienne; 3rd June 2007 at 10:12 PM.
    .
    'luxury is an esthetic wrath' Serge Lutens

  3. #3

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    I would rather compare noses. There are far more superstar french noses than of any other nationality. Thus, the French win by a landslide.
    -

  4. #4

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    I think I'll help in the landslide for France. I'll give up the World Cup in exchange, though.

    The reason is I think there is more range and depth to what I think of as French perfumery. More floral, more woods, more ambergris, more civet, and better "play" with things like patchouli. Also a very heavy social tradition of men wearing vetiver scents.

    There are fantastic greats from France's rival neighbor, for certain, but the best of what I think of as Italian fragrances is found in herbals and citruses. Something like Acqua di Parma for example. I can think of several others given some more time, but the citrus tradition, which I think is more Italian, is not as interesting to me.

    So that's how I explain my vote.
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  5. #5

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    Though I love Villoresi and AdP, I vote France, due to its historical dominance in perfumery, which explains today's dominance of French noses. The point about perfumery, like so much else these days, being totally globalized, is important to keep in mind though. Your typical French nose would be working for a multinational corp these days and producing fragrances which in no recognizable way would appear as "French"
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  6. #6

    Wink Re: France vs Italy

    I voted for France, no one can deny their role as the true innovators, but often the directness of the Italian houses is neccessary to clear away the smell of Noble Rot.

  7. #7

    Talking Re: France vs Italy

    Pierre's answer is probably the correct answer nobody wants to hear, and it has an element of the future in it. If I shut my ear to what she says for the moment I can, and I suppose many of us will also recognize something like national perfume styles. More familiar with masculine frags, I think we can still discern something like French and Italian masculine styles, and I believe I also recognize a lot of German fragrances as German, and quite a few British scents as clearly British. Mainstream American, I also believe, is not too difficult to identify. I would have problems sorting out 'good, better, best masculine frags by nations. (I hardly know any English or Italian ladies' perfumes, like the legendary Shocking (Schiaparelli) and couldn't vote on those.)

    Two additional thoughts: No cologne in this world would exist the way it does without the one that gave them all it's name: the Eau De Cologne from that city in Germany. And there would never have been that cologne if a certain Signor Farina from northern Italy hadn't taken residence in Cologne. He knew how to make cologne before he started manufacturing it, and he had assistance from fellow Italian men, mainly family. All that was not new, but based on old Italian technical know how, and the import of best ingredients from Italy.

    French perfume, before cologne revolutionized it, had also been based on Italian imports. Catharina di Medici brought her Florentine perfumers with her when she was married to the King of France. When we finally resolve there is nothing like national perfumery any more - perhaps we must also conclude that there never really was French perfumery at the beginning.

    The number of French perfume houses has been, partly still is, immense! But does that really matter when I gladly give three Guerlains or Diors for one Villoresi if you let me decide which ones. And I may be ready to also trade a few Lutens I know for one Armani Privé I have not had a chance to sample yet.And then there are some Santa Maria Novellas which I consider so valuable that I would let go of all my YSLaurents for only two of those, and so forth. Will this help boost your morale Rompimp ??

    When you look at national contributions - do not forget fragrance and flavor guys, whales, and civet cats. They are major players on the resource side of it .
    Last edited by narcus; 4th June 2007 at 04:00 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  8. #8

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    Its important not to confuse historical contribution with current industry domination. The contributions of egyptians and persians predate all but many european nations have also contributed to advancements in perfumery. In todays world the french perfume industry is widely regarded as the world leader.
    -

  9. #9

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    I went against the grain here. I like my Mazzolaris and my Domenico Caraceni more than anything I own right now.

  10. #10

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    I wanted France to win the world cup anyway! I still voted France for fragrances.

    L'Artisan and Serge Lutens are two of my favorite houses!

  11. #11

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    Two additional thoughts: No cologne in this world would exist the way it does without the one that gave them all it's name: the Eau De Cologne from that city in Germany. And there would never have been that cologne if a certain Signor Farina from northern Italy hadn't taken residence in Cologne. He knew how to make cologne before he started manufacturing it, and he had assistance from fellow Italian men, mainly family. All that was not new, but based on old Italian technical know how, and the import of raw ingredients from Italy.

    French perfume, before cologne revolutionized it, had also been based on Italian imports. Catharina de Medici brought her Florentine perfumers with her when she was married to the King of France.When we finally resolve there is nothing like national perfumery any more - perhaps we must also conclude that there never really was French perfumery at the beginning.

    The number of French perfume houses has been, partly still is, immense! But does that really matter when I gladly give three Guerlains or Diors for one Villoresi if you let me decide which ones. And I may be ready to also trade a few Lutens I know for one Armani Privé I have not had a chance to sample yet.And then there are some Santa Maria Novellas which I consider so valuable that I would let go of all my YSLaurents for only two of those, and so forth. Will this help boost your morale Rompimp ??
    Yeah it does!!! I still reckon French perfumery has more history and depth though. eg: Caron; Guerlain.

    Here is an analogy I came up with wondering if it could really pass....
    Take Chelsea FC and lets compare it to a perfume house.

    The owner is Russian (house owner). The coach is Portuguese (nose for any specific creation). The player are from everywhere else on the planet (various other human resources at a perfume house).... But the Club is still considered English.

    Another thing, are the Italian niches really as good as you say Narcus?

  12. #12

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by EnvYuS View Post
    I wanted France to win the world cup anyway! I still voted France for fragrances.
    Ditto.

    As much as love Etro, Lorenzo Villoresi and Mazzolari scents (plus Aquolina Pink Sugar ), the majority of my fave houses are French.
    "Wovon man nicht lesen kann, darüber muss man schreiben."

  13. #13

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    The best perfume houses are French IMO.

  14. #14

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    I voted for France too. They win hands down.

    Incidentally, I talked with some people at ISIPCA (world's leading perfume school in Versailles, France) two weeks ago, and asked if they have many foreign students. Their number is indeed increasing, but the vast majority of ISIPCA graduates are still French.

  15. #15

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcello View Post
    I voted for France too. They win hands down.

    what Marcello said.

  16. #16

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    Its important not to confuse historical contribution with current industry domination. The contributions of egyptians and persians predate all ...
    My reply would be: ‘This is not even wrong ’! But let’s leave history altogether. It was only one of the arguments I chose to add to the game. Sorry, if that confused you.


    Adding up noses? I think pierre obsidienne has done that, but I have little or nothing to convince me that the 90% ratio given for French influence on non-French perfumery is correct. As a rule, the average consumer has no way to find the name of the person(s) who designed his favorite cologne, like AdGio, D&G Homme, Versace l’Homme, etc. Which Basenoter can help him? If most of the perfumes of the following houses are in fact made in France or have been designed by French perfumers I will have my surprise, and raise the white flag :
    Armani, Benetton, Biagiotti, Principessa Marcella Borghese(?), Bulgari, Cavalli, Dolce & Gabbana, di Zegna, Fendi, Ferragamo, Ferrari, Ferrè, Gigli, Gucci, La Perla, Krizia, Prada, Rocco Barocco, Tacchini, Trussardi, or Versace. This is far from complete of course !

    But if most of those perfumes really bear the Italian stamp, then I would additionally compare the hundred and one Italian small niche firms with the giant niche and prestige houses in France. Off hand I can only think of three Italian ones in that category: Santa Maria Novella, Acqua die Parma (Blue Mediterraneo), and Lorenzo Villoresi. I have not seriously commented on quality because I do not feel competent enough to give a judgement that would be free of personal preferences. Any other statement, however, is only an opinon – one in a hundred others. It hardly matters. And also: love makes us blind! But yes, I love two of these fine houses as if there were no other. Turin has just commented on LV once (to my knowledge), and that was a catty remark on their packaging. I took that as a clear sign that he does not consider Villoresi's work worthy of comments. LV received official honors in France in 2006: Prix Coty.

    Santa Maria Novella is the oldest living fragrance institution the western world has, only to be matched perhaps by the French perfume conservatory in Versailles.
    I know not much about the perfume legend of 10 Corso Como, or Signora Laura Tonatto.
    Collega Magnifiscent, lo aiuta !

    Last edited by narcus; 4th June 2007 at 10:18 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  17. #17

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    I vote for both.

    TNMA
    Last edited by thenmarcher; 7th December 2007 at 05:29 AM.
    "Why not seize the pleasure at once?"
    -- Jane Austen (Sun, and Mercury in Sagittarius)

  18. #18

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    For me French perfume; but the World Cup goes to Italy honey .
    Autumn treasures: Magnetism, Midnight Orchid, Tea for Two,
    Aimez-Moi, Chinatown, Dzongkha, Five O'Clock Au Gingembre,
    Cittá di Kyoto, Jasmin de Nuit, Jasmin Full, Kelly Calèche, Venezia,
    Douce Amère, Eau de Charlotte, Falling In Love, Chergui, Prada,
    Rose Alexandrie, Hypnôse, Omnia, Flowerbomb, Poivre Piquant,
    Cuir Beluga, 7:15am in Bali, Lolita Lempicka, Fumerie Turque,
    Datura Noir, Songes, Gaultier², L'Ombre Fauve, Kors, My Couture,
    Ligea "La Sirena", Red Aoud, Rose Absolu, Cèdre, Milk, No. 23

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bending backwards is like falling in love, come bend with me

    The mind is like a drunken monkey, it constantly jumps here and there.

    Swami Niranjan-ananda

    "Our life is shaped by our mind; we become what we think."
    Dhammapada

  19. #19

    Wink Re: France vs Italy

    With the arrival of summer, all those herbal Italian creations are feeling mighty appropriate.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 11th June 2007 at 07:08 AM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    My 2 cents (yes, would have been too easy to make a pun there) gives the edge to France. Purely based on what I have and what I want to obtain.

  21. #21

    Default Re: France vs Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by thenmarcher View Post
    I think Italian women are hot.
    TNMA
    that's true! LOL! ;-)

Similar Threads

  1. L'Erbolario (Italy)
    By Elf in forum Female Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 30th April 2010, 04:09 PM
  2. A basenoter's dream? Moving to France! :)
    By Schachman in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 29th February 2008, 08:21 AM
  3. SOS - Air France, Perfume
    By StraightEyeForAQueerGuy in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 28th May 2007, 07:10 PM
  4. Can this fragrance be saved? Help me layer Little Italy!
    By Arhianrad in forum Female Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 13th September 2006, 05:58 PM
  5. How Shiseido succeeded in Europe (SERGE LUTENS)
    By Mylene_Farmer in forum Female Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 3rd December 2005, 08:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000