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  1. #1

    Default Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    I love many of the Bonds including Chinatown, Little Italy, EdNY, Hamptons, but I find the newer ones so shallow and rushed. Scent of Peace is almost chemical. Where is the vision and creativity, Laurice?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Pre Bleeker Street they weren't any better. Making copies of excisiting fragrances isn't exactely creative , is it? Just my opinion ofcourse.
    Last edited by eric; 21st August 2007 at 06:47 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Laurice Rahme needs to slow down the pace of fragrance releases. For example, this year alone she's launching SEVEN (!!) fragrances
    -

  4. #4

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Everyone hates Bond No 9.. blah blah.. bandwagons are fun. Everyone copies everyone, from photographers to copywriters, Fortune 500 leaders to perfumers.

    Personally, 2007's West Side is one of my favorites in my wardrobe.. I even got the big jug of it. Actually, I quite like Scent of Peace and might get it for my girlfriend. It comes across clean and light to me, with a hint of fresh grape or currant at the top. Hamptons and Fire Island don't do much for me, but I'm sure there is someone that does enjoy them.
    I'm a colognosaurus. Rawr!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    On the one hand, Laurice Rahme is just getting the same shit that is so often flung at strong-willed business women, while on the the other hand, she's a bit unscrupulous in her use of other people's ideas. All it takes is a star shaped bottle and a vendetta against Creed.......

  6. #6

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?



    I don't know that I would ever use the word inspired when speaking of any of the Bond No. 9 fragrances. Most are good fragrances, technically speaking, one or two are excellent, some are abysmal, and most are mediocre at best.

    To get an inspired fragrance these days one needs the luxury of spending 4 to 5 years on a perfume as the great Edmond Roudnitska used to do, and one also needs a heritage. There are too many ready to order formulas out there these days. All the great perfumers of the past had an intimate knowledge of natural ingredients, mainly because of their familial connections to Grasse along with a good working knowledge of the aroma chemical industry centered in and around Grasse and in Paris. Roudnitska was no exception; he even worked for an aroma chemical company in Paris between the wars. These inspired and inspiring perfumers worked for years on the great, inspired fragrances of the past. Today it's easy to hire even renowned noses to tweak their own former creations and produced very good fragrances, but hardly inspired ones. Ready made formulas for ready made money. There's no need for insipiration.

    Two examples will illustrate my claim. Maurice Roucel's New Haarlem EDP is a reworked Rochas Man, and, actually, it isn't that much of a better fragrance than Rochas Man, when all is said and done. Le Labo's Vetiver 46 is really Marc Buxton's EDP reformulation of CdG 2 Man. If anything, the inspiration is second hand with the best Bond No. 9 fragrances and for the technically competent copies, the inspiration comes from the straightforward, unapologetic shameless reiteration and to my nose, cheapening of preexisting fragrances and their formulas. That's the way of the world.

    With regard to another New York purveyor of fragrances, Le Labo, I am surprised that no one has noticed or spoken at length of the similarities between Le Labo Vetiver 46, CdG 2 Man, and even Gucci Pour Homme, or, for that matter the similarities between Le Labo Rose 31 and The Different Company's Rose Poivree. Le Labo Labdanum reminds me of countless labdanum based accords of the power fragrances of the 1980s. I have tried all the Le Labo fragrances, and while they're all good, have excellent longevity, and clearly are quality productions, there's very little that makes one say, now that's inspired. Le Labo's revolutionary claims would be quite comical if they weren't making so much money. I find their image quite absurd. There's no difference between them and any of the other niche companies. All their connections come from the industry itself. All the fragrances are created by industry people themselves. There's no outside the industry as Le Labo claims. They are as industry as you get. Really quite comical when you think of it and exam the details.

    What do I own from the Bond No. 9 line: New Haarlem EDP and Hamptons EDP. I've tried them all, and that's it for me, so far. I try to keep an open mind. [Edit and update: I don't own these two anymore.
    After a number of wearing, I found them to be, like all the Bond No.9 fragrances I've tried, relentlessly loud and unrefined in the final instance.]

    What do I own from the Le Labo line? Nothing. I've tried them all, and that's it for me, so far. Again, I try to keep an open mind.

    I find my inspiration in less conspicous less sought after places; it's from where insipiration usually comes.

    scentemental


    Last edited by scentemental; 18th December 2008 at 12:35 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    As usual, I agree with almost everything Scentemental has posted. Yes, hard work and inspiration will always trump slickness.
    With Bond 09 and Le Labo you get very slick concepts that do not hold up under the slightest bit of scrutiny.
    The proof is in the juice.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 22nd August 2007 at 06:10 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Nice post...
    I especially agree with the point that Vetiver 46 is a re-worked CDG 2 Man...I was thinking of posting something on that myself after re-visiting my sample the other day. Looking at the Le Labo website, you're right, the whole thing really is quite silly. I'm not going to say anything about Bond except that none of their scents have ever done much for me.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    I think I stopped sniffing after Bleecker St, which sort of reminded me of Purple Label with some caramel.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    I have 2 Bond keepers and I've tried and owned a bunch:

    Central Park and Hamptons. Hamptons is like Creed SMW with some Sung Homme thrown in for good measure. Central Park, to my nose, is totally unique. It's probably in my top 2 or 3.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    I have enjoyed Scent of Peace and West Side the most. However, none of the fragrances WOW'd me enough to pursue a decant. That's how I am with a lot of fragrances though. I'm very picky as to what I spend my money on. I would love to walk by someone wearing Fire Island. It just smells like nothing but good memories of the beach. However, when wearing it, it began to irritate my nose after awhile. A smell would love to catch the trail of for 5 minutes and reminisce but past that I think it would just start to annoy me.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Same here...I have 2 Bonds that I will keep permanently. I have tried them all and have owned at least six.

    Bleecker Street
    Wall Street


    Get tons of compliments on both and their longevity is amazing for me.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Scentementals analysis is spot on and makes perfect sense: the "off the shelf" componentization market mechanic was adopted by other industries way before the perfume industry hit it big.

    I am recently Bond no.9-vorced...however I might hook up with Little Italy or Riverside Drive soon even though uber original they are not. I should say that next to my Creed, Guerlain, Caron and Chanel bottles, the Bond no. 9 bottles look a little fruity and anaemic ..
    -

  14. #14

    Smile Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Hello scentemental,

    I admire and look forward to your informative commentaries on fragrance. Would you please give examples of inspirering fragrances created within the last five years, if there are any. Also, are you familiar with Profumum's Ambre Aurea, and if so what do you think?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Quote Originally Posted by nattygold View Post
    Hello scentemental,

    I admire and look forward to your informative commentaries on fragrance. Would you please give examples of inspirering fragrances created within the last five years, if there are any. Also, are you familiar with Profumum's Ambre Aurea, and if so what do you think?


    Thanks for your kind words nattygold. They're very much appreciate. I don't have the time right now for a long response. I'd have to think about the idea of "inspired" a little more before I came up with a detailed answer, but without doubt one fragrance I don't have to think about is Dior Homme. It will take its rightful place in fragrance history as a nonpareil and a classic. There's no doubt in my mind. Let me give your question some more thought when I have some more time, and I will post again.

    scentemental

    P.S. Thanks also to Ruggles and zztopp for agreeing with me. That's always nice.

    Last edited by scentemental; 23rd August 2007 at 08:30 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd4t View Post
    Everyone hates Bond No 9.. blah blah.. bandwagons are fun. Everyone copies everyone, from photographers to copywriters, Fortune 500 leaders to perfumers.

    Personally, 2007's West Side is one of my favorites in my wardrobe.. I even got the big jug of it. Actually, I quite like Scent of Peace and might get it for my girlfriend. It comes across clean and light to me, with a hint of fresh grape or currant at the top. Hamptons and Fire Island don't do much for me, but I'm sure there is someone that does enjoy them.
    Word up. Find what you need, leave the rest. ("Leave the gun, take the cannoli.")
    All this in depth talk about image, ready to bottle mixes, and excellent advertising really kind of blows past me. I just like Bleecker Street. That's all there is to it. (EDIT - And Chinatown)
    - Rich
    Last edited by _R$_; 23rd August 2007 at 08:30 PM.
    As always, disregard most of what I say. It's not worth your heart health to actually worry about what a 23 year old guy from Kansas thinks. Even if he is really ridiculously good looking.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Quote Originally Posted by _R$_ View Post
    Word up. Find what you need, leave the rest. ("Leave the gun, take the cannoli.")
    All this in depth talk about image, ready to bottle mixes, and excellent advertising really kind of blows past me. I just like Bleecker Street. That's all there is to it. (EDIT - And Chinatown)
    - Rich

    My apologies Rich. I'll be sure to keep things shallow and superficial next time. I agree. What the board needs is more threads where we all tell each other what we like and what we don't like. You're right; that's all there is to it.

    scentemental

    Last edited by scentemental; 24th August 2007 at 12:12 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    It is one thing to just like a fragrance. Rich and I both agree that we just like Bleecker Street. Simply put, it smells good to us.
    But we all should embrace and be thankful for posters like scentemental. He spends alot of energy and time sharing his knowledge and insight with other posters on this forum about fragrance and the industry with a style that is eloquent. I for one have learned something from every post of his and am thankful that he posts here. I have learned much from him...so cheers to putting on the tank and diving under the surface to greater depth instead of just skimming the surface with a snorkel.
    Last edited by Jock_With_Scents; 24th August 2007 at 12:50 AM. Reason: spelling

  19. #19

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    My apologies Rich. I'll be sure to keep things shallow and superficial next time. I agree. What the board needs is more threads where we all tell each other what we like and what we don't like. You're right; that's all there is to it.

    scentemental

    I think all he was trying to say is that he doesn't get caught up in all the poo slinging that goes on over insignificant things. He's simply saying he enjoys the fragrances that he enjoys and doesn't let all the petty attacks influence his decision, including sarcastic replies. I don't think anyone was directing their thoughts on your post. I quite enjoyed your post and liked the points you made.
    Last edited by jrd4t; 24th August 2007 at 12:59 AM.
    I'm a colognosaurus. Rawr!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Not only can he articulate his ideas, quite unlike me, he has the best looking Chihuahuas (I assume they're his) around !
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 24th August 2007 at 01:30 AM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd4t View Post
    I think all he was trying to say is that he doesn't get caught up in all the poo slinging that goes on over insignificant things. He's simply saying he enjoys the fragrances that he enjoys and doesn't let all the petty attacks influence his decision... including your sarcastic remarks.
    Well if that's that case then I owe Rich a huge apology, which I tendered wholeheartedly.

    My apologies Rich for misinterpreting your comments.

    Best regards,

    scentemental

  22. #22

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Blast.. you quoted me before I could take some of the curtness out of my post
    I'm a colognosaurus. Rawr!

  23. #23

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd4t View Post
    Blast.. you quoted me before I could take some of the curtness out of my post
    Don't worry about. No problem or hard feelings at all on my part. The impulse to defend a friend wrongly attacked is a noble one. I can't hold that against you.

    scentemental

    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    Not only can he articulate his ideas, quite unlike me, he has the best looking Chihuahuas (I assume they're his) around !
    Yep, they're my Chihuahuas, and they're absolutely the most wonderful companions. Thanks Ruggles. Anyone who says a kind word about my Chihuahuas is a friend of mine.

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 24th August 2007 at 03:31 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  24. #24

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    I agree with JWS and Rich. Bleecker St. smells great, exhibits good longevity, and has interesting changes over the course of a day's wearing. Despite the similarities Bleecker Street shares with Ralph Lauren Purple Label, I prefer Bleecker Street. I also prefer New Haarlem to its oft compared counterpart, Rochas Man. West Side and Fire Island are two Bond scents from the post-Bleecker era that I happen to appreciate. I love the way West Side calms and comforts and Fire Island is summer fun in a bottle. Although Fire Island and West Side are not tooth-rattlingly clever nor strikingly original and inspired, I can appreciate both and understand why others feel compelled to own them.

    I also concur with scentemental and others who find that the Le Labo line has obvious comparisons to other scents. Furthermore, Le Labo has many miles to go before they are as strikingly original as they seem to want. However, I often prefer the Le Labo offering to their comparable ilk and I am also willing succumb to Le Labo's outlandish pricing scheme. If a fool and his money are soon parted, I admit I am a fool for Le Labo. Rose 31, Patchouli 24, Neroli 36, Bergamote 22, and Vetiver 46 are among some of the most pleasurable and wearable fragrances I have ever worn.

    Regarding lack of inspiration and originality, both are pandemic in most all creative endeavors. Each success leads to many imitators and blatant copies. Musicians, writers, cooks, sculptors, perfumers, designers and various creative minds often rework, rewrite, retouch a past successful creation from their own efforts, or the efforts of others, in an attempt to create something new. Although lacking in originality, some of these unoriginal, uninspired byproducts are worthy of some praise and eventually find a few admirers.

    When it comes to matters of personal taste, there is no right or wrong, correct or incorrect. Keep in mind, that "truth in advertising" is an oxymoron. Think for yourself, decide for yourself, and wear what you feel is right for you.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Let me put it this way:
    I'm the kind of guy that will only go SO FAR before I've decided that I like something. If it happens to have some similarities to other fragrances, well, that's too bad, I smell fabulous. I leave the in depth analysis to guys like scenteMENTAL (haha, just kidding), because I have no desire to go any deeper than I already have. Besides, he's way better at it, and obviously harbors more of an interest in the subject.

    Metaphor:

    As a surfer, I will surf the 4-7 footers with pleasure, because I'm simply happy to be out on the ocean, enjoying the sun and surf. Scentemental, who has surfed for far longer, wants to ride mostly big waves because he tires of the laid back feel of the smaller waves. He scrutinizes each and every wave with infallible precision and patience, and will not be afraid to tell anyone why he passed on the 8 footer:
    "There was a 12 footer right behind it chum."
    - Rich
    As always, disregard most of what I say. It's not worth your heart health to actually worry about what a 23 year old guy from Kansas thinks. Even if he is really ridiculously good looking.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    I am too new to this obsession to offer any deep thought to any of the scents I own so I too thank those that can and do do that.:wave:

    I have only two Bond 9s; Great Jones and New Harlem and I love them both in fact, I have both layered on as I key this. I swapped for them 'blind' and am happy I got them. My only regret is that they don't last long enough but I'll live with that negative.

    Forgot to add that their caps fit(at least the two I have are this way.) way too loosely which takes away from the 'cute' bottle.


    Dan
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  27. #27

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    I think I agree that all the Bond no. 9's since Bleeker St. have been uninspiring . . . at least to me. It is a subjective experience and I respect other views. I own two Bond's: like Jock w/scents I have Bleeker St. and Wall St. and I like them both very much. Most of the Bond fragrances seem to be a rush to market with a fragrance and often they seem to be missing the mark somehow.

    Mostly in response to Scentimental's post -

    I do have to agree with Scentimental's assessment of Bond no. 9 and his rant about fragrance houses copying others is a valid comment. But copying anothers deisgn is the sincerest form of flattery - right? Most creative endeavors are in fact built on the work that has gone before them so we see creative copying with improvements in all kinds of product designs. That's just how things get done. Build a better mouse trap, etc, but it's still a mouse trap. When somebody finds an original big hit in fragrance profile such as Musc Ravageur, L'Air Du Desert Morocain, or Borneo 1834, it is natural for perfumers to say "wow look at what they tried, and it works! Maybe I can take the same road and improve on it!" So many of these have been emulated in new designs that came after. This form of derivitave product design and improvement of what has succeeded before happens more than we realize. The trick is to improve upon the original enough so that something really new does come out of the process. And so we see lots of knock offs, but the best contain subtle improvements and often evolve to something really different and evade the criticism of being a "knock off".

    I don't see the similarity between Le Labo and Bond no. 9 at all. Sorry Scentimental, but it just sounds to me like you don't like Le Labo for some reason. Bond created their entire line be mimicking Creed initially and then a selection of other fragrances in the industry. Some were improvements, but most were not. But Le Labo has not taken this strategy with their 12 fragrances. All of them smell very original and quite unique to me - with the lone exception of Vetiver 46. I think Le Labo has improved upon those that are similar and came before their fragrances. Although Vetiver 46 (which I prefer to 2 Man) is so close to the CDG 2 Man that the primary improvement is that LL's bottle actually stands up on the shelf! I don't think Rose 31 is similar at all to Rose Poivre - and if that was their inspiration they changed it so much as to not resemble RP. I don't see any other knock offs in their line at all. But, when you see how closely the vetiver 46 is to Man 2 it causes suspicion of the rest of the group. But, I don't see any other copies there.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Dan,

    I'm glad you're enjoying that Great Jones. That's one I'd like to have back!!

    Oh well........

  29. #29

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    In any sort of art form (whether it be music, writing, painting or, yes, even perfumery) there are innovators and there are imitators. For some reason most people tend to overvalue innovation and undervalue the imitation. Innovators often stumble upon or work out great new ideas, but don't really craft them into the potential masterpiece of craftsmanship - they're too busy trying to get the next idea out of their head. It's when legions of imitators take that innovator's idea and run with it, stretching it, playing with it, trying to 'perfect' it, that you get some really great art. I think both parties are crucial to the advancement of art - and in this particular case - the betterment of the world of fragrance.

    I haven't smelled many Bond no9s, I only own Riverside Drive - which is nice enough.... but I'll echo Michael (sloan) and his comments regarding Le Labo - they have blown me away in every instance I've had to try them. If their art is imitation rather than innovation, well let's just say they've perfected the rough sketches of the originals and turned them into masterpieces.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Regarding the Le labos:

    Except for the minute oudh note in Rose 31, I find it to be quite similar to Rose Poivre if not exactly the same. The Vetiver 46 and CdG Man comparison is even more striking. I haven't tried Le Labdanum. 2/3... nicely made fragrances, but the innovation factor isn't high. Le labo certainly doesn't blow me away...infact I prefer the Bond no.9 line to Le Labo.

    Most of the times one needs to have extensive experience with fragrances (which Scentemental certainly has) to spot the similarities/copies/inspirations. For example, I would be more impressed with Cuir Mauresque if I didnt have experience with Tabac Blond. In the end, you just buy what you like, an extra oudh note or not.
    -

  31. #31

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    I have been through a full bottle of Rose Poivree and almost a full bottle of Rose 31, and with respect to everyone, except for inspiration, they are not that similar IMHO. They are both different in feel and in drydown. But my nose is untrained I admit, so the similarities to a more trained nose may be more evident.

  32. #32

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    I just don't think Bond scents are good enough in terms of originality or craftsmanship and they hardly justify the $200 price tag. I got a decant of BS from their Bond St store and compared it to Purple label. Though a tad "spicier" than PL, it was basically the same scent with less sillage and longevity with isn't saying much considering PL's short life. Same thing with New Harlem and Wall St. Both nice scents, but all too familar. Their scents are very "safe" IMHO.
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

    Egon Schiele - Self-Potrait


    My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux

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  33. #33
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    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jock_With_Scents View Post
    I have been through a full bottle of Rose Poivree and almost a full bottle of Rose 31, and with respect to everyone, except for inspiration, they are not that similar IMHO. They are both different in feel and in drydown. But my nose is untrained I admit, so the similarities to a more trained nose may be more evident.
    Totally agree. I wear and enjoy both.

    Rose Poivree is rose, civet, LOTS of black pepper and JC Ellena blending it all perfectly together so that the way these notes simultaneously weave together is pure magic (akin to what he does in Terre d'Hermes). Rose 31 is candied roses (roses and simple syrup...to be specific), and the most animalic, musky, wonderful note (smells like animal's breath) combined, NO pepper at all and pretty much a very linear drydown, but WHAT A WONDERFUL linear drydown it is. I get TONS of compliments every single time I wear Rose 31 (mind you, these same people don't compliment me when I wear Rose Poivree).

    Different rose scents, IMO.

  34. #34

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Rose Poivree is what I wanted Rose 31 to be like and I was sadly disappointed. I'm quite surprised to hear the similarity made. Interesting.

    As for Bond - I personally dont think Bleecker Street was a great fragrance at all, not inspired - BUT, if perfumers only goal was to create unique, inspired, nothing-else-like-it, landmark, mind-boggling fragrances, I have a feeling instead of 800 releases this year, we may have had 3 or 4. For me, the turning point and the mark at which I feel the line went downhill after would have to be Chinatown. I think it's the star of their line. Everything else afterward was just boring. Scent of Peace I found to be very synthetic smelling and common - something I would expect from Tommy Hilfiger. West Side I just don't get, and its not for lack of trying. Bryant Park was another one just like Scent of Peace - yawn.

    The new Silver Factory is an incense lover's dream, though and I expect it to be a big hit. In my review of it for Sniffapalooza Magazine recently, I said it was the best new release from Bond since Chinatown and I'm sticking to it.

    The new Saks 5th Avenue Fragrances are even more disappointing. For Her is, well, let me just say upfront that Gardenias and me do not get along, however this is a nightmare in my opinion, all things considered. For Him is even more of a problem for me b/c Its nothing more than a really expensive Armani or Calvin Klein fragrance. Their is no personality to it whatsoever - its just mass-market appealing at an exorbidant price. I feel anyone who buys For Him has been seriously taken advantage of.

    As for me, I own Chinatown and Wall Street. I have owned Riverside Drive but the bottle broke one day and I lost it all. I would buy Nouveau Bowery in a minute if I ever found $180 that I didn't want to spend on something else - something even more desired (and there are many on my list). I do think NB is one of the most unique from the line, though and I think it has yet to get the credit it truly deserves.
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  35. #35

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Self edit
    Last edited by scentemental; 25th August 2007 at 12:57 AM.

  36. #36

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    now now scentemental, no need to get offended. i think the discussion is lively and healthy. no need to clam up and not express your opinion. i just tend to assume that marketing is just that - an angle to get people to try and (more importantly) *buy* things.

    do you really think anyone truly believes Axe body spray makes women chase geeky boys around? Probably not. does anyone truly believes Le Labo is doing anything revolutionary? Maybe so, maybe not. But niche buyers tend to enjoy the fanciful, hyper-elite marketing strategy that niche companies offer.

    Take that away from them and they've just spent 200 dollars on a bottle of juice that costs probably not a whole lot more at the end of the day than the Axe body spray.

    i for one have enjoyed this thread and all the very inspired posts within!
    Last edited by rentboy; 25th August 2007 at 01:05 AM.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?


    I need to clarify some of my comments that some people have taken far too personally and some have misconstrued. I’ll at least take half the blame for that, but a post like the following takes 2 hours to compose and edit and clearly most times I am posting of the top of my head and don’t have time or the foresight to clarify and elaborate all things in need of elaborations and clarification.

    First, let me explain the context of how I understand both Rose Poivree and Le Labo Rose 31 to be related. Let’s allow for differences between the fragrances and differences of perception and take the word “similar” out of the equation, and let’s even take the words uninspired or unoriginal out of the equation and let’s just say that both fragrances within the wider context of fragrance creation are not as revolutionary as they might first appear. I am casting no asperions on their respective merits or on those who enjoy them.

    Le Labo Rose 31 is predominantly a rose, cummin, animalic based fragrance. Rose Poivree is also a predominantly rose, coriander seed/pepper, animalic based fragrance. The wood notes in both provide contrasts and complexity, but the main accord in both is a rose/spice/animalic notes accord. In Rose Poivree's case, the animalic base is civet; although, I am pretty sure I can detect some civet or civet like muskiness in Le Labo Rose 31. The animalic base in Le Labo Rose 31 is a combination of cistus (aka labdanum), Cetalox (a synthetic ambergris type compound), musk and the vague “animal notes” which could include civet. At any rate, the overall effect is that the animalic base in Le Labo Rose 31 approaches a complexity that is closer to natural civet than the artificial civet in Rose Poivree. It’s what also contribute to the more candied nature of the dominant rose note, a candied note that is not in and of itself a function of the rose note.

    Rose, spice, animalic formulas both of them. Are they different fragrances? Sure they are. But they're basically the same concept. Are they good fragrances? Certainly they are. Many people find them deeply satisfying. I respect that. I am not one to talk negatively about individual fragrances if I can help it. My point was, again, a larger point about the nature of fragrance creation today and how there is very little outside the industry, very little time to create outside the dictates of the industry. It’s no accident that Edmond Roudnitska––generally acknowledged as the creator of genuinely original, inspired and seminal formulations––was a free lance nose. However, my point should have also been that perfumers work within establish traditions and even establish formulas.

    At the level of composition: the rose, spice, animalic base is a standard accord in many women's perfumes. Spice is a large concept and can include the spiceness of carnation, another frequent complement of rose. The rose, spice, animalic base combination has been an established one for a long time and will continue to be for a long time, as the components of spice and animalic notes harmonize exceedingly well with certain components in the rose oil and as the animalic notes work in the capacity of a fixative to fix rose notes optimally. Both Jean Claude Ellena and Daphne Bugey in their respective creations of Rose Poivree and Le Labo Rose 31 are drawing on an established body of knowledge which clearly recognizes through past examples and practices that spices and animalic components work excellently with rose bases. The corinader seed/pepper that Le Labo Rose 31 lacks and that is found in Rose Poivree is more than replaced by cummin, which has a complex scent profile that is at least as broad as that of the coriander seed and pepper combination in Rose Poivree. Many people don’t notice the coriander in Rose Poivree, just as most people don’t notice the cummin in Le Labo Rose 31, and there is a good reason for that. It’s because of the excellent synergy that exist between rose, certain spices, and standard animalic components. It’s what actually creates that viscous rich rose fullness and persistence you find in both fragrances. Perfumers have known this for decades and have exploited this basic compatibility and synergy for as long. In terms of what both fragrances do with the rose/spice/animalic synergy, they are to be commended as is The Diffferent Company for marketing their rose, spice, animalic-based fragrance, Rose Poivree, as a unisex fragrance, as is Le Labo for marketing their rose, spice, animalic-based fragrance, Le Labo Rose 31, as a men's fragrance.

    About my personal connection to roses and rose fragrances: Hell, I can remember when the gender police jumped down my throat less than three years ago when I suggested predominantly rosed based fragrances could be and should be worn by men, and were worn by men in other parts of the world and other times in history. How long have I been familiar with and how long have I been wearing natural rose essences and women's rose and rose based fragrances? Close to 30 years. You'll excuse me a little if I don't get as excited about Le Labo Rose 31's revolutionary status and the hype as Le Labo does. I am talking about the hype here, not casting aspersions on their fragrances and on anyone who likes them. You’ll also excuse me for not getting as excited about finding a new men’s rose fragrance as some people have. Thirty years of wearing rose essential oils and rose based and rose fragrances has a way of doing that to one. I don’t begrudge anyone their liking Le Labo Rose 31. I’ve been preaching or at least living the rose experience as long as some Basenoters are old. I think more men should wear more rose fragrances and over come a certain gendered floraphobia and progress on to other florals.

    I agree with the posters who noted that as with most art forms and most creation, fragrance creation moves via imitation and in the process of doing so evolves through a slow gradual modulation and innovation of original ideas, but when a company like Le Labo offers itself as revolutionary and outside the larger movements of the industry, some of us will not take that at face value and call a spade a spade.

    If you want to try a rose-based fragrance that is truly inspired and truly original, try Domenico Caraceni Pour Homme. No spices, no animalic components, no patchouli, the three traditional accompaniments of rose in fragrances. Instead you have an original and inspired combination of the following:

    Top notes: petitgrain, bourbon geranium, neroli
    Heart notes: rose absolute, tobacco absolute
    Base notes: tree moss, benzoin, cypress, frankincense

    I am under no illusions that Le Labo Rose 31 fans will like it over and above Le Labo Rose 31, but I was never under any illusion that Le Labo Rose 31 would not be liked, or even should not be liked just because I claimed it wasn't necessarily "inspired" or entirely original within the context of rose fragrance creation. Again, that's a very onerous burden to place on any fragrance, despite the fact that Le Labo does it to all their fragrances with their hype.

    scentemental


    Last edited by scentemental; 26th August 2007 at 05:28 AM.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    All right, scentemental, now I'm very interested in the Caraceni rose creation.
    Where is it available for purchase?

    Regards,
    Tim

  39. #39

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    And I do have one small question.. I've only swabbed Rose Poivrée so far (not a full wear yet), but both times I've tried it I've gotten what I thought was something foul in the top notes, which I figured was cumin. Do you think that was the coriander I was sensing? It's something sharp and raw... at times it seems like a ripped rose stalk, others something much more biological. I think I'll do a full wear tomorrow to get it a bit better.
    I'm a colognosaurus. Rawr!

  40. #40

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    I have also been very curious about Domenico Caraceni for some time now. Thanks scentemental for the thoughtful explanation about the Rose 31 and Rose Poivree connection.

    There are no reviews on Domenico Caraceni and little is ever mentioned in explaining the scent, Maybe that adds to the mystery I guess, and a lemming is created.

  41. #41

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Quote Originally Posted by trumpet_guy View Post
    All right, scentemental, now I'm very interested in the Caraceni rose creation.
    Where is it available for purchase?

    Regards,
    Tim
    trumpet_guy,

    The only place I know that sells it is the German site First in Fragrance:

    http://www.ausliebezumduft.de/index.php

    They're very reliable and efficient and generous with samples.

    There's an Italian website, but that a joke. It's impossible to order from them even though they're set up to accept credit card payment. I made numerous attempt with no success; emailed them with numerous times and received no answers. Don't even bother; go with First in Fragrance.

    It's funny how loud one has to shout, so to speak, to get people to listen. I've been quietly plugging this fragrance for over a year now and no one seemed interested.

    Let me know if you decide to order and how the whole process went.

    Best regards and good luck,

    scentemental

    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by jrd4t View Post
    And I do have one small question.. I've only swabbed Rose Poivrée so far (not a full wear yet), but both times I've tried it I've gotten what I thought was something foul in the top notes, which I figured was cumin. Do you think that was the coriander I was sensing? It's something sharp and raw... at times it seems like a ripped rose stalk, others something much more biological. I think I'll do a full wear tomorrow to get it a bit better.

    It sounds like you're reacting to the civet to me.

    scentemental

    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Jock_With_Scents View Post
    I have also been very curious about Domenico Caraceni for some time now. Thanks scentemental for the thoughtful explanation about the Rose 31 and Rose Poivree connection.

    There are no reviews on Domenico Caraceni and little is ever mentioned in explaining the scent, Maybe that adds to the mystery I guess, and a lemming is created.
    Thanks J_W_S.

    There are some fragrances that have such a powerful effect on me that I find them hard to review. This is one of those fragrances. It's a really harmonizing fragrance that make me feel ethereal. I don't think I have the right words for it yet. I haven't been able to analyze it as I normally could because of this effect on me. I will try to come up with something though if I can. The person I'd really like to see review this is pluran. I know he's been wearing it regularly for some time now. His reviews always strike the right note, and I find myself agreeing with them wholeheartedly. It would be a treat if he reviewed this one.

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 25th August 2007 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  42. #42

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    In response to the questions about Domenico Caraceni - You can order samples or bottles of Domenico Caraceni from this European fragrance shop at: http://www.ausliebezumduft.de/index.php. They have a very well organized web site and I received my shipment with no problems - slight delay in delivery time due to distance.

    Domenico Caraceni is a very warm, masculine rose+leather+tobacco fragrance. Smells like an old world men's furnishings shop. I would place it in the same general neighborhood of fragrance with Czech and Speake no. 88 which shares a rose heart note, but the drydown is drier and smokier.

    The topnotes are woody and warm from the petitgrain edge on neroli + rose geranium warmth. Rose absolute is a warm ray of roses over the tannic leather / tobacco scent that under the rose smells sort of oud-like from the tannic tartness it adds to the rose. At first I thought there must be oud in the mix, but looking at the ingredients list I see this must come from the tobacco/benzoin/frankincense mix. The drydown is a very soft tobacco that stays warmly blended with the neroli and rose scents. A very good one.

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    There are some fragrances that have such a powerful effect on me that I find them hard to review. This is one of those fragrances. It's a really harmonizing fragrance that make me feel ethereal. I don't think I have the right words for it yet. I haven't been able to analyze it as I normally could because of this effect on me. I will try to come up with something though if I can. The person I'd really like to see review this is pluran....

    scentemental
    I feel the same way. I just want to wear it until a spontaneous need arises to say something about it. For me, too much analysis causes blindness and I find myself wanting to just enjoy things. I've talked about liking fragrances such as Patou Pour Homme and others, but Domenico Caraceni is truly my favorite, and by quite a distance. There really is nothing else like it. One would never understand the scope of the scent by looking at the notes. Whoever made it must be feeling pretty damn good.

    jrd4t,

    I just bought a bottle of Rose Poivrée from scentemental. There's a lot of civet in it. I would advise against wearing it in heat. Fragrances with real civet, like Jicky, can turn into something horrifying. No shit. What smells like a more synthetic civet in Rose Poivrée may not be such a problem but I haven't had time to determine that with any degree of certainty. My girlfriend wore Jicky in the heat not long ago and it was one of the worst things I'd ever smelled. I told her not to wear Jicky around people, definitely not in the heat. It was the sort of smell that could be detrimental to various relationships (not she and I of course). This description of civet can be very accurate: "A person who wears it provokes a respectful fear. This is the effect that felines have always provoked on man, who is a possible prey". What I smelled the other day had this affect on me to some degree. The smell was distressing, and the psychological effect, though initially unconscious, was discernible quickly and lasted for several hours. The smell also filled up her car. I've been with my girlfriend for eight years and her natural smell is excellent, so this came as big shock. The civet had come alive! For real man.

    I love Rose Poivrée but wearing it just anywhere probably isn't the best idea. Especially in the heat. It would be a good idea to have another person wear it so you can get an idea of what it smells like. My girlfriend wears it a lot and so far smells excellent, but this has been in cool temperatures. I just bought a bottle of Gendarme V (from scentemental) which has a similar civet note. It's pretty striking.

    As for the original post, I tried Bleeker Street and liked the first thirty-forty five minutes, but the base is weak, disappointing. Good perfumes start with the base and so many of them today are all about the topnotes. Luca Turin was right when he said fragrance companies today generally spend 85% of the money on topnotes.

    I just wanted to add that reading scentemental's posts is like watching Roger Federer play tennis.
    Last edited by pluran; 25th August 2007 at 04:04 PM. Reason: source

  44. #44

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Pluran, could you list some good ones that start at the base? I find this intriguing.
    Maybe start a new thread about this if you have to!
    Are you not entertained??? Is this not why you are here??

  45. #45

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    . . . . jrd4t,

    I just bought a bottle of Rose Poivrée from scentemental. There's a lot of civet in it. I would advise against wearing it in heat. Fragrances with real civet, like Jicky, can turn into something horrifying. No shit. What smells like a more synthetic civet in Rose Poivrée may not be such a problem but I haven't had time to determine that with any degree of certainty. My girlfriend wore Jicky in the heat not long ago and it was one of the worst things I'd ever smelled. I told her not to wear Jicky around people, definitely not in the heat. It was the sort of smell that could be detrimental to various relationships (not she and I of course). This description of civet can be very accurate: "A person who wears it provokes a respectful fear. This is the effect that felines have always provoked on man, who is a possible prey". What I smelled the other day had this affect on me to some degree. The smell was distressing, and the psychological effect, though initially unconscious, was discernible quickly and lasted for several hours. The smell also filled up her car. I've been with my girlfriend for eight years and her natural smell is excellent, so this came as big shock. The civet had come alive! For real man.

    I love Rose Poivrée but wearing it just anywhere probably isn't the best idea. Especially in the heat. It would be a good idea to have another person wear it so you can get an idea of what it smells like. My girlfriend wears it a lot and so far smells excellent, but this has been in cool temperatures. I just bought a bottle of Gendarme V (from scentemental) which has a similar civet note. It's pretty striking . . . .

    The trick with fragrances that have civet in them is to never let them turn "lavatorial" on you or others. Once they do, it's like losing intimacy in a relationship; it's hard to get it back. Pluran has explained clearly the care that needs to be taken with civet based fragrances and heat and humidity. A really hot and humid day ruined Gendarme V for me forever.

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    I just wanted to add that reading scentemental's posts is like watching Roger Federer play tennis.
    It's hard to know what to say to such a generous compliment, so I'll just say a simple and heartfelt thanks.

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 26th August 2007 at 09:16 PM.

  46. #46

    Default Re: Is it me or are all the Bond No. 9 frags post Bleeker Street so uninspired?

    I think the best Bond 9 scents are the ones that dont smell like anything out there..


    My top picks are...

    1. Riverside Drive
    2. Eau De New york
    3. Chelsea Flowers
    4. West Side
    5. Andy Warhol Union Square
    6. Central Park
    --------------------------------------
    BTW...I TOTALLY AGREE WITH SNIFFAPALOOZA!!!

    THE NEW BOND 9 SAKS DNA for him smells like 2-3 dozen other scents you would find at Macy's, Sephora, or like any other Armani, Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, or Aramis type cologne, Its not exclusive and DEF not worth 120 bucks for 1.7 oz
    Last edited by coastfansocal; 28th March 2008 at 01:26 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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