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  1. #1

    Question saying hi a question

    Hi all!
    I've been holding back on my introduction because I wanted to wait until I could put into words what I am doing here.
    Honest to goodness answer: I want to learn all I can about perfumes. and about what people think of natural perfumes.

    I became a supporting member because I think that this website offers a great service for example the perfume directory (which I am always referring to people) and I know how much work a good website takes to run.
    I want to ask a question, I have been wanting to ask this for ages but...

    What's the general consensus here about natural perfumery? like it? Don't care? hate it? think it's stupid? think it's cool but wouldn't try it? think it's aromatherapy? would rather not discuss it ever? don't know any natural perfumers or perfumes? would like to try some? think it's for hippies? never liked any natural perfumes? have never seen naturals for sale? think it's cool and would love to try it? Would give natural perfumes to their mothers? think they are only for people with allergies? Think that it doesn't matter as long as it smells great? think it's not real perfume?

    Anything I forgot?

  2. #2

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    Quote Originally Posted by RuRu View Post
    Hi all!
    I've been holding back on my introduction because I wanted to wait until I could put into words what I am doing here.
    Honest to goodness answer: I want to learn all I can about perfumes. and about what people think of natural perfumes.

    I became a supporting member because I think that this website offers a great service for example the perfume directory (which I am always referring to people) and I know how much work a good website takes to run.
    I want to ask a question, I have been wanting to ask this for ages but...

    What's the general consensus here about natural perfumery? like it? Don't care? hate it? think it's stupid? think it's cool but wouldn't try it? think it's aromatherapy? would rather not discuss it ever? don't know any natural perfumers or perfumes? would like to try some? think it's for hippies? never liked any natural perfumes? have never seen naturals for sale? think it's cool and would love to try it? Would give natural perfumes to their mothers? think they are only for people with allergies? Think that it doesn't matter as long as it smells great? think it's not real perfume?

    Anything I forgot?
    Hi Ruth, welcome aboard! It's a great place to land.

    I don't know much about natural perfumery myself. Sounds good though. From what little scant information I have picked up though, I believe it's expensive. I'd be happy to find out what I can. Tell me everything you know! I guess as long as I like how it smells, how bad can it be?

    QE

  3. #3

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    I make my own scents with essential oils. Also use L'Occitane and Pre de Provence brands, as well as Annick Goutal, who uses natural essences. We have some experienced parfumers on board who make higher priced natural perfumes, too. I'm sure it's a good idea.

  4. #4

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    For some people this question is ideologically quite charged. I would suggest you have a look at Luca Turin's famous perfume blog, which at one point degenerated into a verbal fistfight over natural perfume:
    http://lucaturin.typepad.com/
    (the entire blog is a valuable information mine)

    Personally I think that what matters is the end result. I do not believe natural perfumes are innately superior, nor do I think they are esoteric nonsense. Do they have a rationale? They do if you believe in perfume as aromtherapy perhaps, or if you happen to suffer from allergies caused by certain synthetics (if on the other hand you suffer from allergies against natural essential oils, a fully synthetic perfume may be more useful). I've read that certain synthetic components used in cosmetics/perfume accumulate in the body, possibly with (slightly) harmful effects, but I've never read any verification of this.

    Now, the other side is, that modern perfumery is a product of the industrial revolution and its ability to synthesize elements. Relying on natural ingredients means depriving yourself of an enormous range of possibilities, not just in terms of actual smells but effects, such as enhanced lucidity, longevity, etc. pp.
    Now our BN member Ayala, from the reviews I've seen, seems to do quite well without these components (but that quality comes at a steep price also), while I'll have to admit that 90% of the natural perfumes I've tried have been simply atrocious. And I do come out of the "organic" corner and was exposed to essential oils long before getting deep into perfume. I do have a clear preference for perfumes with a high natural oil content, that are perfected with the use of synthetics (Lutens, Creed, Villoresi) - the obvious coice to make a good perfume is always to use the finest ingredients. I can see where the dismal quality of 90% of mass market fragrances can lead one to associate synthetics with inferior quality (its inferior, cheap synthetrics that are the "problem," though, but of course there is no problem, since most people seem to like their BOSS, CK or even AXE just fine).

    btw.: what I've been writing sounds as if there was a clear binary division between natural and synthetic. That is not quite the fact either. Major chemical processes are involved in extracting natural essences (like concretes) and many "synthetics" are derived from natural vegetal products, so the lines do blur. And there are those synthetics worth their weight in gold, so synthetic by no means always means cheap.

    @beachroses: just for clarification: Goutal and Occitane use natural essences, of course, but alongside synthetics. They just don't like to talk about it, because their image is built around naturalness and purity. I witnessed a Diptyque SA lie to a customer about their perfume being all natural - because that's what they want to hear. Luca Turin had a good comment in one of his columns about how the perfume industry has painted itself into corner with its dirty little synthetic secret.

    Well, I will now proceed to agonize over what perfume to wear on this beautiful late summer day.

    Cheers
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  5. #5

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    I am still in the process of testing the eight samples of Ayala's perfumes which I have but I can tell you that these are properly composed, structured perfumes with really beautiful, sometimes breathtaking notes and accords. I started from quite a sceptical mindset about the whole concept, though always a lover of "natural smelling" perfumes and notes.

    More to follow....
    Last edited by hirch_duckfinder; 23rd September 2007 at 10:05 AM.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  6. #6

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    For some people this question is ideologically quite charged. I would suggest you have a look at Luca Turin's famous perfume blog, which at one point degenerated into a verbal fistfight over natural perfume:
    http://lucaturin.typepad.com/
    (the entire blog is a valuable information mine)

    Personally I think that what matters is the end result. I do not believe natural perfumes are innately superior, nor do I think they are esoteric nonsense. Do they have a rationale? They do if you believe in perfume as aromatherapy perhaps, or if you happen to suffer from allergies caused by certain synthetics (if on the other hand you suffer from allergies against natural essential oils, a fully synthetic perfume may be more useful). I've read that certain synthetic components used in cosmetics/perfume accumulate in the body, possibly with (slightly) harmful effects, but I've never read any verification of this.
    Cheers
    I was hoping I would get both sides of the coin and thank you. Most of my friends use mainstream perfumes and I had a feeling that it was a charged question. But I had to ask it. I want to learn all about perfumes. Natural and Synthetic, but stick with making only naturals. I love reading about how people put away their summer wardrobe and take out their cold weather scents. It love learning that people like to wear rich exotic heady perfumes at night and light fresh clean perfumes during the day.
    I want to make brilliant perfumes using naturals but let people appreciate them for the way they smell.
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    I am still in the process of testing the eight samples of Ayala's perfumes which I have but I can tell you that these are properly composed, structured perfumes with really beautiful, sometimes breathtaking notes and accords. I started from quite a sceptical mindset about the whole concept, though always a lover of "natural smelling" perfumes and notes.

    More to follow....
    I like your open mindedness, maybe someday you will try one of mine : )
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by beachroses View Post
    I make my own scents with essential oils. Also use L'Occitane and Pre de Provence brands, as well as Annick Goutal, who uses natural essences. We have some experienced parfumers on board who make higher priced natural perfumes, too. I'm sure it's a good idea.
    Thank you so much for your vote of encouragement. The two you mention I have not heard of, I'll have to have a look at the directory.
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by QuietEarth View Post
    Hi Ruth, welcome aboard! It's a great place to land.

    I don't know much about natural perfumery myself. Sounds good though. From what little scant information I have picked up though, I believe it's expensive. I'd be happy to find out what I can. Tell me everything you know! I guess as long as I like how it smells, how bad can it be?

    QE
    Thanks for the welcome, it feels like a good place : )
    Ambergris is one of my favorites as is rose, jasmine, and tuberose. I love vanilla and fruit and resins too. I love concretes and tinctures. I like strong perfumes that smell expensive and last a long time on the skin. I like perfumes that linger and say something about the person who is wearing it. I don't like perfumes that smell "hippy" or weak or medicinal or aromatherapy like. I like different, I like sexy, I like punky, I like animal leather and oak moss. I have been disappointed and at times horrified by a lot of natural perfumes that are on the market as much as I have been by some of the foul smelling cheap synthetics.
    You know something? I'm a vegetarian but my mouth still waters when I smell a well roasted side of wild venison, I can't help it. Doesn't mean I want to eat it, but I can sit beside the person eating it and enjoy watching him devour it hungrily while I eat my roasted vegetable burger. I'm passionate about naturals but I don't mind if nobody else is. I also make a wicked vegetarian burger topped with butter fried wild chanterelle mushrooms (they smell like apricots) and bechémel sauce, I just know any meat eater would enjoy the same.
    Last edited by RuRu; 24th September 2007 at 12:55 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #7
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    mikeperez23's Avatar
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    Default Re: saying hi a question

    Honestly, I would not wear a 100% natural fragrance if I did not like the way the it smelled. The same goes for a 100% 'synthetic' fragrance.

    I feel this way for a number of reasons:

    - I am not allergic at all to any natural or synthetic fragrance ingredients. Perhaps if I was, I might lean more to one or the other?
    - I think that most perfumers who make a strong point in their marketing/advertising that IT IS ALL NATURAL are: a) coming across to me as elitist or as if they are better than other perfumers and b) using this as a gimmicky selling point for fragrances that, honestly, are not good quality scents
    - I am not in the least interested in making perfume, I am much more interested in just smelling it and enjoying other peoples creations. Perhaps if I was a perfumer, I might feel differently?

    Good luck with your perfume creations and welcome to Basenotes.

  8. #8

    Red face Re: saying hi a question

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    Honestly, I would not wear a 100% natural fragrance if I did not like the way the it smelled. The same goes for a 100% 'synthetic' fragrance.

    I feel this way for a number of reasons:

    - I am not allergic at all to any natural or synthetic fragrance ingredients. Perhaps if I was, I might lean more to one or the other?
    - I think that most perfumers who make a strong point in their marketing/advertising that IT IS ALL NATURAL are: a) coming across to me as elitist or as if they are better than other perfumers and b) using this as a gimmicky selling point for fragrances that, honestly, are not good quality scents
    - I am not in the least interested in making perfume, I am much more interested in just smelling it and enjoying other peoples creations. Perhaps if I was a perfumer, I might feel differently?

    Good luck with your perfume creations and welcome to Basenotes.
    Thanks for the welcome and your input. It's interesting to know what people think. I can understand what you are saying. I specialize in Naturals rather than using both because I feel it gives me a bit of an edge. Let's say a large perfume house decides to make a natural perfume because they see that there is a small demand. That's like a great chef in a restaurant making a dish just for vegetarians, it will probably be "so so" in comparison to a vegetarian dish created by a person who specializes in vegetarian cooking.

    Like I said, I have been disappointed by some of the naturals I have tried and found them to be wishy washy and boring and short lived on the skin. But this is certainly not true of all. The ones that I have tried that are good are few and far between but they are very very good, masterpieces. I know the same is true of main stream perfumes.

    Thanks again for giving me your point of view.

  9. #9

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    Quote Originally Posted by RuRu View Post
    I have been disappointed by some of the naturals I have tried and found them to be wishy washy and boring and short lived on the skin. But this is certainly not true of all. The ones that I have tried that are good are few and far between but they are very very good, masterpieces. I know the same is true of mainstream perfumes.
    To me, since I don't approach perfumes with any particular ideology, what matters is the smell. (I'm simplistic, I know.) I've smelled 'classics' that I don't like at all and 'naturals' that I love. My only generalisation on the subject is the one you mention above - I've found that most natural perfumes are comparatively fleeting. Please let us know what you've found lasting, I'd love to have a sniff.

    I find your fellow-perfumer Alaya's reviews always especially interesting and authoritative, so I look forward to seeing yours join the Basenotes directory. As a recent convert to perfume addiction I'm always keen to learn.
    Last edited by Wordbird; 23rd September 2007 at 06:30 PM. Reason: proofreading
    "A woman who doesn't wear perfume has no future." Coco Chanel

    I'm streamlining my collection http://community.basenotes.net/showt...29#post1219729

  10. #10

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    @beachroses: just for clarification: Goutal and Occitane use natural essences, of course, but alongside synthetics. They just don't like to talk about it, because their image is built around naturalness and purity. I witnessed a Diptyque SA lie to a customer about their perfume being all natural - because that's what they want to hear. Luca Turin had a good comment in one of his columns about how the perfume industry has painted itself into corner with its dirty little synthetic secret.

    Well, I will now proceed to agonize over what perfume to wear on this beautiful late summer day.

    Cheers
    The natural skin care industry has done the exact same thing, so I hear what you're saying. Thanks for the information! I think Pre de Provence just uses essential oils, but I use all kinds of fragrances, as long as they contain some natural notes. Like many people, I use my scents not only to smell good, but to enhance my moods and feelings of well being. Most of the things I make myself are bath and body, hair or skin care products. I've been using essential oils in various ways, as well as herbs and botanicals. Way of life, I grew up in the beauty business and my father made some of things he used in his own salon.

    I have never had a problem with allergies or synthetic ingredients in perfumes, until recently, and I was always surrounded by them. Only some lines (or fragrances within those lines) bother me, depending on what's in them. I think it's some of the new chemicals they are using like sunscreens that are making me sick.

    RuRu, there is a DIY section on these boards, if you are interested in talking about what you're making. As far as I know, self promotion on these threads in order to sell your products is not allowed. Good luck!

    PS I'd rather eat deer than smell like one, but to each her own!! LOL Just a joke.

  11. #11
    Lean in closer, dear
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    Default Re: saying hi a question

    Echoing Ayala's name ... her scents proved to me that naturals can be beautifully composed. My impression is that the all-natural scents I've liked best have little longevity and sillage. My husband is a devotee of Stella Rose Absolute, which I believe is composed without synthetics, and that has good throw. I don't care to apply oils, preferring scents to be suspended in alcohol. Hope that imparts a scattershot of info.

    I liked your photo here, Ruru. You look like the very likable actress Valerie Mahaffey, whom we in the States know best from "Seinfeld," "Northern Exposure," and "Desperate Housewives."
    In a world where 6 million people are added each month, every landscape matters.

  12. #12

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Wordbird View Post
    To me, since I don't approach perfumes with any particular ideology, what matters is the smell. (I'm simplistic, I know.) I've smelled 'classics' that I don't like at all and 'naturals' that I love. My only generalisation on the subject is the one you mention above - I've found that most natural perfumes are comparatively fleeting. Please let us know what you've found lasting, I'd love to have a sniff.

    I find your fellow-perfumer Alaya's reviews always especially interesting and authoritative, so I look forward to seeing yours join the Basenotes directory. As a recent convert to perfume addiction I'm always keen to learn.
    Thank you for your response.
    I left another response further down
    Last edited by RuRu; 24th September 2007 at 12:52 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    Longevity and sillage are not major factors for me, either. I usually change my scent in the evening, anyway. I also enjoy solid perfumes, edt's and oils in a body form, but I know many who enjoy perfume oils, too. Beautiful containers matter to me. I won't reject an item because of it, but I am more attracted to something that appeals to me artistically and I don't want junky looking things around my house.

  14. #14

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Wordbird View Post
    To me, since I don't approach perfumes with any particular ideology, what matters is the smell. (I'm simplistic, I know.) I've smelled 'classics' that I don't like at all and 'naturals' that I love. My only generalisation on the subject is the one you mention above - I've found that most natural perfumes are comparatively fleeting. Please let us know what you've found lasting, I'd love to have a sniff.

    I find your fellow-perfumer Alaya's reviews always especially interesting and authoritative, so I look forward to seeing yours join the Basenotes directory. As a recent convert to perfume addiction I'm always keen to learn.
    Of the longest lasting naturals I have to say Fairchild and Pan by Anya's Garden and Cepes by Aftelier are among the longest lasting.

    It was really nice to get every body's point of view and also to let you know about me.
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Quarry View Post
    Echoing Ayala's name ... her scents proved to me that naturals can be beautifully composed. My impression is that the all-natural scents I've liked best have little longevity and sillage. My husband is a devotee of Stella Rose Absolute, which I believe is composed without synthetics, and that has good throw. I don't care to apply oils, preferring scents to be suspended in alcohol. Hope that imparts a scattershot of info.

    I liked your photo here, Ruru. You look like the very likable actress Valerie Mahaffey, whom we in the States know best from "Seinfeld," "Northern Exposure," and "Desperate Housewives."
    Thanks very much, maybe I'll put it back up. It's a very recent photo taken the day after I dyed my hair red in a moment of madness, lol. I thought maybe everybody is sick looking at it. It's great to know what people think of naturals and that people DO think of them and that a lot of people use what they like and don't mind either, or rather don't make their choice based on whether or not it's natural but on rather if they love it or not.

    Maybe I'll put that photo back up. Thanks again.
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by beachroses View Post
    Longevity and sillage are not major factors for me, either. I usually change my scent in the evening, anyway. I also enjoy solid perfumes, edt's and oils in a body form, but I know many who enjoy perfume oils, too. Beautiful containers matter to me. I won't reject an item because of it, but I am more attracted to something that appeals to me artistically and I don't want junky looking things around my house.
    That's the way I think about containers. I want something I can keep. Something I can even re use. I would probably reject an item because of it's packaging at this stage. I hate things that look cheap! I like oils but they are uncommon as far as perfumes go. I really like solid perfumes.

    Some people don't want EVERYBODY in the room to smell them, that's the way I am too, it's enough for people close to me to get a whiff when they are giving me a hug or something. Nothing worse than smelling a persons perfume from the other side of the room.
    Last edited by RuRu; 23rd September 2007 at 09:47 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  15. #15

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    Quote Originally Posted by RuRu View Post
    Some people don't want EVERYBODY in the room to smell them, that's the way I am too, it's enough for people close to me to get a whiff when they are giving me a hug or something. Nothing worse than smelling a persons perfume from the other side of the room.

    I am definitely the same way! That's also why I enjoy solids and they are good for traveling, too.

  16. #16

    Default Re: saying hi a question

    Quote Originally Posted by beachroses View Post
    I am definitely the same way! That's also why I enjoy solids and they are good for traveling, too.
    At the same time though I do like to feel as if I am wearing a perfume. I like my perfume to be like a sort of Aura around me. But the perfumes I like have to make a definite impression. I like to wear a perfume that is noticed and even better if it is complemented on. There's a fine line. I carry a little solid compact around in my jeans or my hand bag when I'm out. If I want to make it last longer I have a pendant that has a tiny indent in the back where the stone is set and I place a piece of solid perfume in there. slowly through out the evening the scent is released as it melts against my skin. I also have a cotton perfume bracelet that I made up that I wear. I'll tell you how to make one if you want. The scent on the bracelet stays for days and days and days. I don't sell them or benefit from promoting them so it's not self promotion if I tell you how? right. I'll start a thread on the DIY and show you how it's done.
    Look for cotton perfume testing bracelets.
    BYE!

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