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  1. #1

    Default The revenge of chypres

    Not so far I had the chance to test some new releases among which the latest SJP covet, and yesterday the brand new Fendi Palazzo.
    Both very nice juices and just guess... different from each other but both chypres!! Now this made me wonder about all those years of fruity, sugary, lollypop juices being at a end. What a nice change it can be! So tremble candy perfume girls, it's time to estinguish!
    Jokes aside, has anyone of you had the chance to smell them or other new chypres (which really seems the new trend foing back on stage for feminine perfumes)? What do you think?

    P.S. After this maybe is it time to extinguish also the ozonic waterboys? Looking at the news from the male side seems yes too!
    Last edited by Magnifiscent; 4th October 2007 at 01:29 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Woo-Hah! I knew they were coming back!!!

    Here are my posts from Nov 2005 and Dec 2004, but I remember saying even earlier that they would be the next big thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by tigrushka View Post
    Floral and fruity notes are all over the place right now (and have been already a couple of years).

    I'm looking forward to the return of Chypres, mysterious, mossy scents.
    Quote Originally Posted by tigrushka View Post
    I'm looking forward to the comeback of Chypres! It would be about time, too. IMO they are the most elegant scents there are (and this is coming from someone who loves Orientals most )

    I didn't really find Chypres until two years ago but now I couldn't imagine life without them. My fave subgroups are leather, fruity and green Chypres, my fave Chypre scents Bandit, Cabochard, Jolie Madame, Mitsouko, Y, Yvresse, Femme, Ma Griffe, Private Collection.

    Chypres are very versatile, great for any occasion. That's why I always pack a Chypre if there's a work trip: you can wear a Chypre to the office but also for the evening.
    "Wovon man nicht lesen kann, darüber muss man schreiben."

  3. #3

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Good, wise Tigresse, you nailed it indeed! I myself have said in that thread that floral candies would have left the place to muted florals and a totally different mood, but indeed you guessed right! Chapeau!

    P.S. I forgot also about the new Kelly Caleche which can be pretty considered a modern leathery chypre

  4. #4
    moondeva's Avatar
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    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    I am afraid I have to be a bit of a wet blanket / stickler and an old grumphly.

    Sarah Jessica Parker's Covet is actually a Fougere not a chypre:
    Quote Originally Posted by basenotes
    Described by Ann Gottlieb as a "fougère on estrogen."

    Covet Sarah Jessica Parker Fragrance notes:
    Geranium leaves, Lemon, Honeysuckle, Lavender, Lemon, Amber
    Quote Originally Posted by osmoz.com
    Covet in described as a classic feminine fragrance, a fougere accord (lavender, geranium, woods), with wet greens, floral notes, chocolate and sensuous base notes. Perfumer : Frank Völkl, Firmenich.

    Top note : Wet Greens, Geranium Leaves, lemon,Chocolate, Lavender
    Middle note : Honeysuckle, Magnolia, Muguet, Michelia
    Base note : Musk, Vetiver, Cashmere Wood, Teakwood, Amber
    And from what I have heard Fendi Palazzo is nothing more than a very (soapy) woody Green Floral:
    Quote Originally Posted by nowsmellthis.blogharbour.com
    Fendi will launch Palazzo, a new fragrance for women, this coming September:
    LVMH senior vice president olfactive development for perfumes François Demachy created the floral composition based on orange blossom, “an age-old flower that is strongly present in Mediterranean culture”, [Gabriella] Scarpa says. “We have used it in a different way, irreverent and decidedly modern.”
    Additional notes include rose, tangerine, bergamot, lemon, pink pepper and jasmine. Fendi Palazzo is an Eau de Parfum and will be available in 30 and 90 ml.
    This is easily my favorite bottle design so far this year. I want one! (image and quote via cosmeticnews, additional information via news.bg) Update: per Women's Wear Daily, Fendi Palazzo "is a flowery-woody scent", and the notes include mandarin orange, bergamot, lemon, pink pepper, orange blossom, jasmine, Bulgarian rose, patchouli and Gaiac wood. They report that the bottle sizes will be 50 and 90 ml.
    I WILL agree that green / fougere / chypre like scents are making a comeback!

    Especially with this new 'true' chypre (contains bergamot & oakmoss) being launched by UK company LUSH cosmetics this autumn:
    Quote Originally Posted by lush.co.uk
    Go Green Fragrance Spritzer
    Go Green is inspired by environmental activist, Rebecca Lush (honest, that really is her name) who now works for Transport 2000, heading up Road Block. She cycles and takes the train, recycles with a passion and buys fair trade, organic food. (She also pied Jeremy Clarkson for his glorification of the car.)

    Mark created Go Green in its two forms for Rebecca and other people who cycle and take public transport to work. Spray on the refillable* spritzer (just stick it under your t-shirt and squeeze) or dab on the solid perfume which comes in a 100% recycled, post consumer waste tin. It`s a refreshing blend of grapefruit, bergamot and neroli, with calming smoky vetivert. Herby scents of fennel, thyme and cedar wood make you smell like you just walked out of a forest, carrying a basket of citrus fruits, rather than you just got off a squashed train or a bicycle. *Coming soon.

    IngredientsDRF Alcohol , Perfume , Grapefruit Oil (Citrus grandis) , Vetivert Oil (Vetiveriazizanoides) , Bergamot Oil (Citrus bergamia) , Tarragon Oil (Artemisia dracunculus) , Thyme Oil (Thymus vulgaris) , Violet Leaf Absolute (Viola odorata) , ) , Oakmoss Absolute (Evernia prunastri) , Neroli Oil (Citrus amara) , Sandalwood Oil (Santalum album) , Cedar Leaf Oil (Thuja occidentalis) , Fennel Oil (Foeniculum vulgare) , *Benzyl Salicylate , *Citral , *Eugenol , *Geraniol , *Benzyl Benzoate , *Citronellol , *Farnesol , *Limonene , *Linalool , Hydroxycitronellal
    * Occurs naturally in essential oils.
    Hooray!
    Favourite (Winter) Crazy Combos

    Tabu + Orange Blossom * Hermes Rouge + Bellodgia* Voleur du Roses+ Rose Ispahan * Rasa Extreme + Paris * Wood Coffee + Cafe Noir *

  5. #5

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    So to be a complete dumbo - for a fragrance to be a chypre, does it HAVE to contain oakmoss?
    "A woman who doesn't wear perfume has no future." Coco Chanel

    I'm streamlining my collection http://community.basenotes.net/showt...29#post1219729

  6. #6

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    I love chypres. I didn't particularly like Covet when I tested it though. It wasn't unpleasant, but it didn't fire me up either. I'm afraid I keep getting lured by florals, despite my love for chypres.
    "I don't know the key to success,
    but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
    Bill Cosby

  7. #7
    moondeva's Avatar
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    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Quote Originally Posted by Wordbird View Post
    So to be a complete dumbo - for a fragrance to be a chypre, does it HAVE to contain oakmoss?
    It used to be the case. But since those stupid £$*&^% Bar steward bureaucats started meddling it has been virtually outlawed. *sob*

    So now the merchandisers have a new take on the chypre genre using it as an umbrella term to cover a new generation of scents that feature (even vaguely) an earthy or musky, green-tinged base note. Scents which have a distinctive vetivert, (green) cedar, and / or patchouli base note are now being categorised as chypre...

    I need to go and lie down... I suddenly have a terrible headache....
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Clemmie View Post
    I love chypres. I didn't particularly like Covet when I tested it though. It wasn't unpleasant, but it didn't fire me up either. I'm afraid I keep getting lured by florals, despite my love for chypres.
    I can understand your not liking SJP Covet since it is a Fougere rather than a Chypre. Fougeres are a truly aquired taste with a distinctive love or hate it herbaceous character that is most traditionally featured in classic men's colognes. The distinctive notes of lavender and geranium tend to dominate in blends like these. I find them wonderful in a natural country situation in the late summer and early autumn.

    Classic and Traditional Chypres have the emphasis more upon the warm, mossy sensual base notes. They were originally created to encapsulate the scents and warmth of the island of Cyprus, which is where they got their name. Chypre de Coty was the first and the best (in my opinion).

    Fougeres & Chypres are quite distinctly different scents to my perceptions...
    Last edited by moondeva; 4th October 2007 at 07:09 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Favourite (Winter) Crazy Combos

    Tabu + Orange Blossom * Hermes Rouge + Bellodgia* Voleur du Roses+ Rose Ispahan * Rasa Extreme + Paris * Wood Coffee + Cafe Noir *

  8. #8

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Whether these scents are chypres or fougeres - I'm LOVING the non-sweet scents! I have my preference in the sugary stuff - my fave being Angel, mainly because it isn't too sweet on me.

    When even Clinique Aromatics Elixir turns into a powdery, candied rose on my skin, I can appreciate something that doesn't turn into a vanilla bomb or candy on me, maintains its depth, and manages to stay on my skin long enough to develop. For me that excludes most florals, the sugar stuff, the watery marine stuff, and most (vanilla based) orientals.

    Like tigrushka I also appreciate their versatility. Many are perfect for any time of day, any season, any situation, and they're beautiful & long lasting to boot!

  9. #9

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    I'd also be really glad if the trend in perfumes changed and the overly sweet or fruity scents made way for something more sophisticated. But can I make a small hijack and ask how 'chypres' is pronounced (with an English accent)? I've googled but to no avail. I wouldn't know how to say it out loud!

  10. #10

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Quote Originally Posted by Blues View Post
    But can I make a small hijack and ask how 'chypres' is pronounced (with an English accent)? I've googled but to no avail. I wouldn't know how to say it out loud!
    I've read it's pronounced "SHEEP - RA" but I've never actually heard anyone say it and I've never tried to say it in front of anyone else to know if I've pronounced it wrong. lol

  11. #11

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    OK, another lesson required: What is fougere? I understand chypre (in terms of the smell, AND how to pronounce the word), and no-one has ever needed to explain the meaning of the type of fragrance a chypre is to me, it's just instinctive (no idea why). But I don't even know what fougere means. SO much to learn!
    "I don't know the key to success,
    but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
    Bill Cosby

  12. #12

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    I've found this link to be very helpful in explaining many perfume terms, differences, examples, etc.

    http://perfumeshrine.fortunecity.com/perfumeterms.html


  13. #13

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Quote Originally Posted by moondeva View Post
    I need to go and lie down... I suddenly have a terrible headache....
    That's the right punishment for having been so smelling posh and narrow about posts of your buddies (and for having made huge usage of FONTS and Colours)!
    Anyway nowadays the definition of chypres had for sure WIDENED to much more than simply featuring oakmoss. This also because actually the traditional composition of a chypre base would smell not so appealing to the most: can anyone remember the original smell of Miss Dior for example? Not at all that sexy Godiva that most of the women want to appear nowadays! So to update and modernize the concept of chypre the family had to relax the rules making of chypre more a mood than a bunch of notes to be featured.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnifiscent View Post
    That's the right punishment for having been so smelling posh and narrow about posts of your buddies (and for having made huge usage of FONTS and Colours)!
    "Wovon man nicht lesen kann, darüber muss man schreiben."

  15. #15

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    I'm excited about the Lush fragrance - their Tramp shower gel is dripping with oakmoss, and it's absolutely beautiful. I've been hoping they'll bring out a similar fragrance for ages.

  16. #16

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Oooh. Now that I will have to check out.

    Chypre = French for Cyprus, but basically a traditional chypre has bergamot at the top and oakmoss and labdanum in the base. There are lots of variations though.

    Fougere = ferny. This is not usually a category that applies to women's fragrances and has lost popularity in male fragrances of late, but is make a resurgence.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiscreet View Post
    Oooh. Now that I will have to check out.

    Chypre = French for Cyprus, but basically a traditional chypre has bergamot at the top and oakmoss and labdanum in the base. There are lots of variations though.

    Fougere = ferny. This is not usually a category that applies to women's fragrances and has lost popularity in male fragrances of late, but is make a resurgence.
    Ah, OK. Ferny. Yes, that just makes me think of aftershaves for chaps. Sharp? A little acidic on the nose perhaps? Green? That's what I'm thinking that means, anyway. I didn't get a lot of that from Covet, I just remember thinking 'meh. It's OK. Wouldn't rave'.

    It's funny, but chypres for me are all about wood underneath top notes that are difficult to describe. Anything but floral, but still pleasant - which is what I find so fascinating about them. They're not sweet, but they're not bitter either. It's that lovely mix, that yin-yang that makes chypres so fascinating.

    I'm rubbish at describing smells and what they do to my nose. Rubbish. But I know what I mean, and I know what I like and don't like. I'll have to sniff some more fougeres, so I can work out what they're all about. Thanks for the explanation.
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeezeweasel View Post
    I'm excited about the Lush fragrance - their Tramp shower gel is dripping with oakmoss, and it's absolutely beautiful. I've been hoping they'll bring out a similar fragrance for ages.
    They're doing a new one? Well, good! I hate Karma, with a passion. They do such good smells when it comes to their other products, and I've been just DYING for them to do a decent fragrance. I'd love something that smells like Retread, their wonderful hair conditioner. That stuff lingers for hours, and it smells divine.
    Last edited by Clemmie; 5th October 2007 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    "I don't know the key to success,
    but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
    Bill Cosby

  18. #18

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    I absolutely love the Retread scent too Clemmie! They had a fragravce called V quite a while ago that I think was sort of similar but I never tried it. Weird musky violets, mm. Sorry to take this off topic but along with the Go Green thing they're bringing out a whole load of solid perfumes, mostly of scents already in their products. I hope there are some good ones!

  19. #19
    moondeva's Avatar
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    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnifiscent View Post
    That's the right punishment for having been so smelling posh and narrow about posts of your buddies (and for having made huge usage of FONTS and Colours)!
    Anyway nowadays the definition of chypres had for sure WIDENED to much more than simply featuring oakmoss. This also because actually the traditional composition of a chypre base would smell not so appealing to the most: can anyone remember the original smell of Miss Dior for example? Not at all that sexy Godiva that most of the women want to appear nowadays! So to update and modernize the concept of chypre the family had to relax the rules making of chypre more a mood than a bunch of notes to be featured.
    That there's fightin' talk, buddy!! Put up your dukes, let's have ya!

    I happen to have bottles of the vintage Miss Dior and even a wee bottle of Chypre de Coty and can confirm that their smell is very sexy and likeable! Especially the Chypre de Coty which mellows to a very sexy, subtly seductive, 'skin-but-better' golden moss scent that always receives compliments. The closest modern equivalent is Ava Luxe Moss or the dry down of Clinique Aromatic Elixir. So the scent may not be that off to a discerning modern nose...

    As with all scents the appreciation of scent depends upon a person's chemistry and the preferences of the person smelling the scent. I do not always want to smell like a 'sexy Godiva' but have found that chypres are beautifully sophisticated and, would you believe it, sexy on me anyway!!

    Chypre didn't NEED them widening, relaxing, modernising or updating to improve the concept! You don't see them needing to 'modernise' and 'update' the floral or the gourmand do you?!

    I was not meaning to be pompous and narrow minded in my original post, that is not my way. You cannot own and love as many perfumes as I do and have limited views about what perfume should be... I do not mind progress - I personally love the modern chypre blend of Agent Provocateur by Agent Provocateur.

    My grievance is that it was made into an 'either / or' issue rather than an 'and'. Ok, you want a modern take on the concept - go for it! But why must the original chypres and those who wish to continue to make true modern interpretations of this type of scent be dissuaded and penalised. Why the mutilation of the classics and smothering of the new?

    There are many 'new chypres' that anyone, with the barest experience of true chypres, would see have nothing to do with the concept of chypre apart from the name. Many are merely musks or fruity florals labelled as chypre because they feature a vetiver or patchouli base note. That is not modernising and updating the concept of chypre - that is p***ing on its freshly filled grave!

    I know many of you may have found classic / traditional chypres hard to wear and they may not appeal to your modern sensibilities but they were / are extremely beautiful to me and it breaks my heart that a whole genre of perfume is being wiped out / mutilated in the name of 'modernisation'...
    Last edited by moondeva; 6th October 2007 at 03:26 PM.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Moondeva, this is highly educational to me. As someone who loves chypres, I'm still learning about them, and mostly my attraction to them is just pure instinct. Half the time, i don't know a perfume is a chypre, it just smells 'different' to me, and that's the attraction of it. That's why Aromatics Elixir had such an impact on me. The newer chypres have their place, but maybe they should be reclassified to make a new 'genre' of fragrance. I wonder what it could be called...
    "I don't know the key to success,
    but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
    Bill Cosby

  21. #21

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Dear Moondeva,
    I don't doubt you don't always smell like a sexy godiva, as long as I don't doubt many old school chypres can smell sexy on you, but c'mon babe, as you sayd chypres allure is a sexyness not so obvious, something more like a long skirt with a deep vent rather than a ultrashort mini skirt, something more about mystery and intriguing. Something that for nowadays shouted sexyness is not so appealing in many cases. Said that I love many chypres, one over all YLS Y for example, known by few, but lovely and absolutely intriguing.
    About narrow minded I've never thought you were but I suppose your "teacher with the red pen" took a bit too much your hand in that post so I wanted to pull you back down among us pupils...hehe
    Anyway when I say widening the family of chypres I don't mean at all to penalize the old school, just broaden the concept and add some new ones: what should I do? should I for example create a new fanily for scents using champaca since champaca is not contemplated in the old school family of white flowers(roses, muguets, jasmine etc...)? naaaahh....I simply accept the fact that the effect of a good moss nowadays can be obtained mixing up maybe some good vetiver with some totally synthetic molecule maybe and get the same allure... even if the poerfumer hasn't gone through the woods hunting golden oakmoss
    And again if this can help new young scents lovers getting closer to chypres (and not only trying that nowadays lolly crappy scents) and maybe discover also the old school then, for me it's very good.
    And last note.... well, ok clove is described by the house like a fougere on steroids, but what about the definition that some say fougeres are the equivalent in male perfumery of what chypres are for feminine?
    I don't like to be intrapped into definitions, since I don't like too strong classification anyway according to this I can see covet as a modern chypre
    P.S: please, please hun, stop using size seven font in your post, I'm not blind and I don't think you need your posts to take half page to get attention since they get already it for their witty contents
    Last edited by Magnifiscent; 6th October 2007 at 10:00 AM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    I almost missed this thead due to my computer breakdown.
    I have to buy a whole new one. The Dell is dead. Tried a new motherboard, several power supplies, new hard drives. My basement looked like a parts and service department--cannibalized computers spread out all over the place.
    Hopeless situation.
    What is a computer purchase going to do to my perfume budget?

    O.K. sorry. Back on topic before I have to log off.
    About Chypres...
    Magnifiscent, did you every try Chypre de Coty? Kumquat gave me a sample, and it is so delicious. I've always wanted to try YSL Y. PM me if you want to trade for samples of any of the Chypres in my wardrobe.
    Moondeva , I think Miss Dior comes closer to the intent of this original formula than any other perfume I have smelled that is currently on the market. I've never smelled Ava Luxe Moss. I have to get a bunch of her samples. (I loved Midnight Violet.)

    I think a great compromise between the supporters of the Old School and the New School would be to start making new interpretations of Chypre de Coty. Honestly, why not? Back to the Future, I say.

  23. #23
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    alice doesn't live here anymore
    Last edited by pluran; 13th October 2007 at 08:02 PM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Quote Originally Posted by Blues View Post
    I absolutely love the Retread scent too Clemmie! They had a fragravce called V quite a while ago that I think was sort of similar but I never tried it. Weird musky violets, mm. Sorry to take this off topic but along with the Go Green thing they're bringing out a whole load of solid perfumes, mostly of scents already in their products. I hope there are some good ones!
    This IS exciting! I love solid perfumes, but they're so hard to get right. Many many years ago (so many it's embarrassing), Avon did a solid of Sweet Honesty, and I just wore it to death. I'm hoping Lush do as good a job of that. Something to look forward to!
    "I don't know the key to success,
    but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
    Bill Cosby

  25. #25

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Why can't we just make up a new classification for the 'pink chypres' and modern interpretations that don't use oakmoss? Call the oakmoss ones 'classic chypres' and the new ones... Savoury or Cyprus or Halkidiki or something. Oh come on! Basenoters are sure to be able to come up with a brilliant name for theis new group. After all, you came up with Chicago Pyjamas...

    Personally, I'm glad to see these new frgrances because I have to confess to a real problem wth oakmoss. I keep trying but it just doesn't work for me. I smell Mitsouko and for me the oakmoss gets in the way. Now, I wouldn't dream of suggesting that Mitsouko be reformulated just to please people like me. (OK, Mitsouko fans, Breathe! Don't freak out! Put the idea far from your mind. Think of pretty fluffy things, the world is a nice place...) But I like complex perfumes and I've always wished I could enjoy those classics that everyone else raves about here. Maybe the Savouries could be a group of perfumes that I can enjoy.

    The thing about oakmoss is that it sets off my 'old lady' response. Now I can feel BNers hackles rising at me saying that and I'm sorry. I'm just commenting on my own response. But I'm guessing that could be a reason - along with the allergen issue - that the marketing departments are so keen on these new Savouries. Removing an ingredient that can bee seen as old fashioned or difficult broadens the appeal and makes the product more marketable. Which is what they're after. They've done pretty much everything they can do with vanilla, watery and fruity-floral so now they're looking for a new category to exploit and this is it. Hopefully we'll see some fabulous new scents created, but there's going to be a shedload of dross too. It's the way. (Sorry to sound jaded, but I'm in marketing. For my sins.)

    And I hope that niche perfumers will carry on ignoring market forces and creating fabulous perfumes containing anything they like, including oakmoss.
    Last edited by Wordbird; 7th October 2007 at 12:04 PM.
    "A woman who doesn't wear perfume has no future." Coco Chanel

    I'm streamlining my collection http://community.basenotes.net/showt...29#post1219729

  26. #26

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Oh! It's the oakmoss that does the 'old lady' thing? Well, there again I'm so flaming ignorant I had no idea. Mitsouko just SCREAMS 'old lady' to me, and as I"m actually starting to head very definitely in that direction now, I just can't add insult to injury by wearing a perfume that announces ahead of time "look out, here comes an old dodderer". Mitsouko is on my swap list. I tried and tried to like it, but it just overwhelms me with that old lady's handbag thing, and I'd rather wear perfumes that make me feel young(er) and sexy(er). So you can all say I'm in denial about my encroaching age, I don't care (I am!), but I won't assist time in its relentless march by wearing a fragrance that confirms my chronological status.

    I like the idea of a new classification (except I'm still trying to get my head around the ones that already exist!).
    "I don't know the key to success,
    but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
    Bill Cosby

  27. #27

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Oakmoss really bothers me. I sometimes like a whiff of it but that's about it. Of course it's the combination of more elements that makes a perfume and I just have to find one (or more) chypres that works with me. I'm curious about the new ones, will definitely take a few sniffs.

  28. #28

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Second Clemmie's thought:
    "Oh! It's the oakmoss that does the 'old lady' thing? "

    Hmmmm, is that what smells like day old urine soiled diaper?
    I love LOVE LOVE Mitsouko except for the occasional dirty diaper notes that weave in & out of it half way through the day.

    Other than that, it's perfect.

    Also, for me dated (aka "old lady") is spelled - powdery tea rose.
    Rich, juicy, deep rose = beautiful.
    As are some "powdery" scents.
    But something about the combo of tea rose + powder reminds me of an old bag of makeup my mom used to keep but never wore. The makeup looked(and smelled) like ancient artifacts. While I enjoyed sniffing them as much as trying them on, I never actually wanted to smell like them.

  29. #29

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Quote Originally Posted by Clemmie View Post
    Oh! It's the oakmoss that does the 'old lady' thing? Well, there again I'm so flaming ignorant I had no idea. Mitsouko just SCREAMS 'old lady' to me, and as I"m actually starting to head very definitely in that direction now, I just can't add insult to injury by wearing a perfume that announces ahead of time "look out, here comes an old dodderer".
    LOL
    I worked it out with Mr Guerlain's help. I don't like Mitsouko and loathe Parure; Mr Guerlain explained that I hadn't got a bottle that had 'turned', but that it was <b>supposed</b> to smell like that. (Which I found astonishing, but he knows his Guerlains.) So since then I've been going back over the scents I've reacted to with a huge 'yeurch!' (most notably Cabochard by Gres) and I find that oakmoss is a component in all of them.

    I think there are other elements that can make things smell old-fashioned - e.g. powderiness, roses, violets - but a lot of that is down to experience and association. One that I smelled and went 'crikey!' was Caron's Nuit de Noel. In the reviews here at BN one reviewer said 'it's about as fashionable as a hooped skirt' and I understood exactly what they meant. It's didn't 'go Old Lady' on me, but the composition was absolutely unlike modern perfumes. Not bad, just different.

    Clemmie if I can find some sample vials and work out how to decant (never done it before so I'll be looking for tips!) would you like me to send you a tester of Cabochard? To see it does the Old Lady's Handbag thing for you too. PM me if you'd like to give it a go.
    Last edited by Wordbird; 7th October 2007 at 05:24 PM. Reason: thought some more
    "A woman who doesn't wear perfume has no future." Coco Chanel

    I'm streamlining my collection http://community.basenotes.net/showt...29#post1219729

  30. #30

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Quote Originally Posted by Wordbird View Post
    Clemmie if I can find some sample vials and work out how to decant (never done it before so I'll be looking for tips!) would you like me to send you a tester of Cabochard? To see it does the Old Lady's Handbag thing for you too. PM me if you'd like to give it a go.
    PM on the way. ;-)
    "I don't know the key to success,
    but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
    Bill Cosby

  31. #31

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    I'm with Moondeva on this issue and would like to come up with an alternative category name for these new so-called "pink chypres" - I've always detested that made up nonsensical category; it's absurd. When I first read them described as such, I laughed right out loud and wondered what the author could possibly have been thinking when coining that term.

  32. #32

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Even were it not for the fact that they are quite different, I’d favor a designation that would sidestep religious wars on Basenotes. Many of the new “not really chypres” would fit on the Edwards fragrance wheel as dry woods, woody orientals and even mossy woods (some do have a mossy feel, distinct from oakmoss, but mossy all the same). I like and wear several of these orphaned fragrances (31 Rue Cambon, NR for Her, SL Chypre Rouge Tom Ford’s Moss Breches), and would love name that was both accurate and respectful. Oakmoss is an odd and musty note, by no means the most approachable in a perfume palette, but worth revisiting from time to time if it doesn’t seem to speak to you at first. I doubt I would have liked it much in my twenties. (Maybe there was a still a touch in Ma Griffe then, but it didn’t stand out to me.) But today I wore both Quadrille and Mitsouko and there are mysteries there well worth the fathoming.

    And in my never been humble opinion, if Moondeva will grace us with her wisdom, any font this side of dingbats is alright by me. In fact, lovely one, if you are reading this and have a pyramid for Quadrille, please do tell!

    And many thanks to Squeezeweasel and Moondeva for mentioning Lush; they have a store near me that I’ve never noticed and I’ll go check out Go Green and Tramp later this week.

  33. #33

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    It's funny - Mitsouko was my first adult fragrance (Diorissimo was the first fragrance I bought, and wore until I was around 18). I had no problem at all wearing it then. It was only as I got into my 30s that I found there were days when it had that weird musty nursing home smell - I don't know if that was down to a change in formulation, strength (I went from EDP to parfum) or my own tastes. However, there are days when it's still glorious.
    I just finished my bottle and am debating whether to get more. The parfum is now hideously expensive.

  34. #34

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Oh, yuck.
    I just got a sample of Gucci by Gucci from Neiman Marcus.
    Moondeva, this is exactly why the chypre name is going to be ruined by the industry.
    "A rich, soulful chypre fragrance charmed by exotic notes and warm florals, Gucci by Gucci speaks to unabashed decadence. She who wears it is empowered, as well as enchanting."
    Notes from Gucci: guava, pear, tiare, musk, honey. Also mentioned by the retailer: chamomile, lily of the valley, orange blossom, patchouli, musk.
    Smells vinegary, like fermented fruit.
    Like childrens' candy that makes the mouth pucker.
    Ouch.
    How dare they call this a chypre?
    I'm afraid they are going to turn away a whole new generation from this genre because it is so far from the beauty of the real chypre aroma.
    How sad.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7 View Post
    Oh, yuck.
    I just got a sample of Gucci by Gucci from Neiman Marcus.
    Moondeva, this is exactly why the chypre name is going to be ruined by the industry.
    "A rich, soulful chypre fragrance charmed by exotic notes and warm florals, Gucci by Gucci speaks to unabashed decadence. She who wears it is empowered, as well as enchanting."
    Notes from Gucci: guava, pear, tiare, musk, honey. Also mentioned by the retailer: chamomile, lily of the valley, orange blossom, patchouli, musk.
    Smells vinegary, like fermented fruit.
    Like childrens' candy that makes the mouth pucker.
    Ouch.
    How dare they call this a chypre?
    I'm afraid they are going to turn away a whole new generation from this genre because it is so far from the beauty of the real chypre aroma.
    How sad.
    Thank you so much for posting this example, Purplebird7.

    It is a perfect example of why I as a true chypre lover cannot and will not 'fall into line' and go along with this travesty in the name of 'progress'.

    My heart aches just reading that and what really saddens me is that with modern attitudes once a new comer to chypres smells that and dislikes it they will arbitrarily say they 'don't like (all) chypres' and will also bad mouth them to anyone who will listen or shows an interest in them.

    Then the markets will find some other name and the beautiful genre of chypres will die / fade into oblivion...

    Mmmm, I have been pondering what to call this new genre of scents.
    Sadly, no snappy one or two syllable have emerged. The truth is most of the 'new chypres' are actually members of other already long established scent groups! As I said before SJP Covet is a Fougere, most of the others are either Wood Musks or Green Florals, and as for Gucci by Gucci that reads as nothing more than a Fruity Floral!!

    No wonder your average perfume buyer is confused...
    Favourite (Winter) Crazy Combos

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  36. #36

    Default Re: The revenge of chypres

    I am notoriously unimaginative at naming things, or I would suggest something.
    The characteristic which all the new chypres share is this: clashing notes.
    They must contain a sour or harsh element which keeps them from becoming too sweet or gentle, usually vetiver or patchouli.
    Now, I love vetiver and patchouli. One has to be careful in combining them with other notes, and careful not to overdo them.
    It seems that the new chypres must teeter on the edge of overdoing the vetiver or patchouli, as if the resulting earthiness or dryness must push the limits of people's tolerence.
    Additionally, I suspect that they are using synthethic woody notes in the new chypres.
    Real vetiver and patchouli are raw, pungent notes, but I can sink my nose into them and breathe without repugnance. The new chypres seem to employ weird, chemical imitations of these woods whose only functions are to contrast with the candylike sweetness of the (other) synthetic fruit and flower notes.
    To be fair, some of them succeed. Narcisso Rodriguez EDP manages to pull off a strange peach/rose/vetiver combination that is pleasing and memorable (although most people on this board much prefer the woody-musky EDT instead of the pink chypre EDP.)
    I'm guessing here, but the new chypres that do succeed seem to employ a higher percentage of natural ingredients and come from niche houses or individual perfumers.
    And, I might add, these manufacturers are less likely to drop the use of oakmoss.
    They are the only hope for the future of the genre.
    I cannot believe that most people will embrace the stuff that department stores are pushing at them in the name of chypres. I, myself, who have always loved chypres, dislike it.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 13th October 2007 at 01:56 PM.

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