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  1. #1

    Default So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    See I recently have the impression the people that work at department stores and mall fragrance counters know little to nothing about fragrances.... Now I do not know your guys experience but mine is horrible.


    I went into Macys to see what I might want to buy. I walk up to this exceptionally attractive young woman. No more than 4 years older than myself and I grab the bottle of Chanels Allure and spray it on the card and she asks me if she could help me. I kindly reply yes and ask if she likes this fragrance and if so why or why not. She tells me a very vague description. I tell her I enjoy fresh smells and she tried to get me to buy Cliniques Happy.... I told her no. Now I ask her if she knew any musky fragrance that gets little play amongst the customers... She says she loves Pi. I agree and tell her it is my favorite aswell and kindly correct her, I tell her Pi is MUSTY.. not Musky. She insists on her notion Pi is a MUSKY fragrance. So I grab her by the hand reach down and spray Kenneth Coles Black on her wrist. Ask her to take a whiff... I ask her what it smells like.. She says fresh, I say good. I then grab a bottle of 212 Men and spray it.. I ask her what it smells like, she says fresh. I ask her does she smell similar notes? She says yes, I tell her that is the musk. I then let her smell my neck... Ask hher, what she smells. She replies Pi. I ask if she has the difference between Musky and Musty and she says yes. I have her number and have a date on Saturday.. But the point is counter ladies should be required to visit basenotes 10 times a day and go through a bootcamp before going on the job, so they can fulfill their duties.


    - Jay
    I'm so fo sho' it's no facade/ Stay out of trouble momma said as momma sighed/ For her fear her youngest son be a victim of homicide/ But I gotta get you out of here momma.. Or I'm gonna die..Inside...So either eay you lose me momma/ So let loose of me!

  2. #2

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    From what I heard from my counter friend seems the good ones are put through a certification process. Most recent shitty experience probably was the Perfumania, my impression of it being five teenagers managing an average sized counter told to spout out terms such as 'smells clean and fresh' or 'your girlfriend will like it'. To sum it up, conversation went something like:

    Cavalli man? It should be the box with the snake print on it. Down, down, keep going, yes the one with the blue snake print. Ok how about some Kouros?...that would be by Yves Saint Laurent...no that's opium keep going right, the Greek looking one, a bit more right.

    Still embarassed meeting one of my toning classmates as well thinking 'ah so you're the cotton candy cloud I've been smelling from the other side of the class'. Pissed me off too when she wanted me to buy from her just for the sake of her commission.

  3. #3

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    LMFAO.... nice... Cotton candy cloud... Aahahaha
    I'm so fo sho' it's no facade/ Stay out of trouble momma said as momma sighed/ For her fear her youngest son be a victim of homicide/ But I gotta get you out of here momma.. Or I'm gonna die..Inside...So either eay you lose me momma/ So let loose of me!

  4. #4

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Riv View Post
    See I recently have the impression the people that work at department stores and mall fragrance counters know little to nothing about fragrances.... Now I do not know your guys experience but mine is horrible.


    I went into Macys to see what I might want to buy. I walk up to this exceptionally attractive young woman. No more than 4 years older than myself and I grab the bottle of Chanels Allure and spray it on the card and she asks me if she could help me. I kindly reply yes and ask if she likes this fragrance and if so why or why not. She tells me a very vague description. I tell her I enjoy fresh smells and she tried to get me to buy Cliniques Happy.... I told her no. Now I ask her if she knew any musky fragrance that gets little play amongst the customers... She says she loves Pi. I agree and tell her it is my favorite aswell and kindly correct her, I tell her Pi is MUSTY.. not Musky. She insists on her notion Pi is a MUSKY fragrance. So I grab her by the hand reach down and spray Kenneth Coles Black on her wrist. Ask her to take a whiff... I ask her what it smells like.. She says fresh, I say good. I then grab a bottle of 212 Men and spray it.. I ask her what it smells like, she says fresh. I ask her does she smell similar notes? She says yes, I tell her that is the musk. I then let her smell my neck... Ask hher, what she smells. She replies Pi. I ask if she has the difference between Musky and Musty and she says yes. I have her number and have a date on Saturday.. But the point is counter ladies should be required to visit basenotes 10 times a day and go through a bootcamp before going on the job, so they can fulfill their duties.


    - Jay
    No offense but what you did sounds a little mean. I was going to scold you until I got to the part where you said you have a date with her. Whatever works I guess.

    Good luck.

  5. #5

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    ^


    I love when people with little to no people skills get upset at an everyday conversation because they misinterpret any and everything they possibly can. They think a gentle hand grab and a little personal interaction is something to "scould" over. Totally disregarding the fact that in conversation there is more than just words, there is tonality, body language and eye contact. Which can be used to give almost subliminal messages... There is more than one way of meeting women. Just because I convey assertive behaviors does not classify it as "mean". It was seduction.. I had fun. Besides it is a fragrance forum.. it isn't your job or place to "scold" anyone..


    But of course I saw the humor in your post as well.
    Last edited by J.Riv; 8th November 2007 at 07:53 AM.
    I'm so fo sho' it's no facade/ Stay out of trouble momma said as momma sighed/ For her fear her youngest son be a victim of homicide/ But I gotta get you out of here momma.. Or I'm gonna die..Inside...So either eay you lose me momma/ So let loose of me!

  6. #6

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    ***
    Last edited by Indie_Guy; 8th November 2007 at 09:13 AM.

  7. #7
    Indiscreet's Avatar
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Nice going on the date. You'll have to let us know how that pans out.

  8. #8

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    perhaps not the tack i'd take when speaking to sales assistants, but whatever works.
    Last edited by chad278; 8th November 2007 at 09:57 AM.
    current favourites: guerlain vetiver, trumper eucris, adp colonia
    latest swag: cdg man2, lolita lempicka au masculin
    next buys: keiko mecheri oliban, michael by michael kors

  9. #9

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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    After all, WTF is a MUSTY fragrance, J? Too vague...
    Ops, I think I have no people skills too!!

  10. #10

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Riv View Post
    I tell her I enjoy fresh smells and she tried to get me to buy Cliniques Happy.... I told her no. Now I ask her if she knew any musky fragrance that gets little play amongst the customers... She says she loves Pi. I agree and tell her it is my favorite aswell and kindly correct her, I tell her Pi is MUSTY.. not Musky. She insists on her notion Pi is a MUSKY fragrance. So I grab her by the hand reach down and spray Kenneth Coles Black on her wrist. Ask her to take a whiff... I ask her what it smells like.. She says fresh, I say good. I then grab a bottle of 212 Men and spray it.. I ask her what it smells like, she says fresh. I ask her does she smell similar notes? She says yes, I tell her that is the musk. I then let her smell my neck... Ask hher, what she smells. She replies Pi. I ask if she has the difference between Musky and Musty and she says yes.
    To answer the general question, sales associates do not generally have to show any interest in or knowledge of fragrance to get a job. They just have to be willing to put up with rude, condescending, sexually aggressive customers who don't buy anything, all for seven dollars and hour and no benefits.

    However, I do not agree that this person was uninformed. She correctly categorized several fragrances, gave a verbal description of one, and identified a specific note in others. I do not think of that as uninformed.

    Also, I do not agree that "musty" is properly descriptive of fragrance. Is Givenchy Pi "covered with or smelling of mold?" Not as far as I remember. I believe that some people have heard the word "musky" and assumed incorrectly that they have heard "musty." An investment in a good English dictionary can help prevent such embarrassing signs of illiteracy.

    However, congratulations on the date. With some women that I know, that approach would have led to a broken wrist and a call to mall security instead.


  11. #11

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Hey, maybe she likes those kind of men!

    This reminds me of that sexy Russian SA I talked with last week. God, she was an amazing creation... Unfortunately, when I asked for her number, she told me she was married.

    She still asked for my number, though...

  12. #12
    Renato's Avatar
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by RCavs View Post
    After all, WTF is a MUSTY fragrance,
    MUST have it, perhaps?
    Renato

  13. #13
    Buzzlepuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Only at the Barney's, Neiman's or specialty shops like Aedes have I encountered sales staff who seemed to know about fragrance and about their specific products.

    But, its not a surprise - its just the way the system works. Almost all sales staff are hired for their ability to sell things (look presentable, speak well, be service oriented etc), not for their knowledge of the product they are selling. Obviously this SA made an impression and sold herself to you! Sales abilities outweigh product knowledge in the hiring process for sales assistants everywhere. This practice falls under the personnel hiring philosophy that it is far easier to teach product knowledge later than it is to teach sales skills later. Problem is the product knowledge rarely gets passed on - especially in a department store where sales associates are frequently moved around from place to place, or work temporarily, and often do not stay long enough at one counter to get in depth product knowledge. Most department stores do not have real training programs of the products they are selling. This is why they encourage reps from the fragrance companies to make sales visits and staff their product areas to pass on this product specific knowledge. The most successful cosmetic areas in dept. stores have their own company trained staff who have lots of product knowledge.

    It works better to just figure things out for yourself. If SA's knew all this stuff, there would be no need for a basenotes web site.

  14. #14

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    Smile Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    MUST have it, perhaps?
    Renato
    LOL!!! Maybe That's what he meant!!

  15. #15
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Nice story, and should be, - nice girl

    Good luck
    "PLAIN LIVING, HIGH THINKING" O.W., De Profundis
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Kingdom smells musty to me... rather than musky, but everyone's chemistry and noses are different so it's not always easy to categorise anything.

  17. #17

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by Advocate View Post
    To answer the general question, sales associates do not generally have to show any interest in or knowledge of fragrance to get a job. They just have to be willing to put up with rude, condescending, sexually aggressive customers who don't buy anything, all for seven dollars and hour and no benefits.

    However, I do not agree that this person was uninformed. She correctly categorized several fragrances, gave a verbal description of one, and identified a specific note in others. I do not think of that as uninformed.

    Also, I do not agree that "musty" is properly descriptive of fragrance. Is Givenchy Pi "covered with or smelling of mold?" Not as far as I remember. I believe that some people have heard the word "musky" and assumed incorrectly that they have heard "musty." An investment in a good English dictionary can help prevent such embarrassing signs of illiteracy.

    However, congratulations on the date. With some women that I know, that approach would have led to a broken wrist and a call to mall security instead.





    I do believe at least to MY nose Pi is a bit funky smelling with its top notes. Vanilla a little citrus and Oakmoss give it that woodsy smell... I describe it as musty.. funky. Not bad but still has a certain aroma about it
    Last edited by J.Riv; 8th November 2007 at 03:42 PM.
    I'm so fo sho' it's no facade/ Stay out of trouble momma said as momma sighed/ For her fear her youngest son be a victim of homicide/ But I gotta get you out of here momma.. Or I'm gonna die..Inside...So either eay you lose me momma/ So let loose of me!

  18. #18
    _R$_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Just an example of why she was working there. "exceptionally attractive young woman..." she sold you on the idea of a date, no? What makes you think you won't go back there to buy from her/Macy's the next time you need a mainstream cologne?
    - Rich
    As always, disregard most of what I say. It's not worth your heart health to actually worry about what a 23 year old guy from Kansas thinks. Even if he is really ridiculously good looking.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    J. Riv,

    I would cut the sales counter people a break. No, they don't know everything, but are helpful for most "standard" fragrance finders. Anyway, as mentioned, they just need to look hot in order to get people to test.

    From my reading you are only 17? If so, I wouldn't worry about what others don't know if I were you.....

    Good score on the date though!
    "I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best." - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

    Current Rotation: Terre D'Hermes, Boucheron PH, Villoresi Uomo, Green Irish Tweed, Chanel PMC, Gucci PH, Floris Santal, Carven Homme, Dunhill '34, PI by Givenchy, Parfums de Nicolai New York

  20. #20
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzlepuff View Post
    Only at the Barney's, Neiman's or specialty shops like Aedes have I encountered sales staff who seemed to know about fragrance and about their specific products.

    But, its not a surprise - its just the way the system works. Almost all sales staff are hired for their ability to sell things (look presentable, speak well, be service oriented etc), not for their knowledge of the product they are selling. Obviously this SA made an impression and sold herself to you! Sales abilities outweigh product knowledge in the hiring process for sales assistants everywhere. This practice falls under the personnel hiring philosophy that it is far easier to teach product knowledge later than it is to teach sales skills later. Problem is the product knowledge rarely gets passed on - especially in a department store where sales associates are frequently moved around from place to place, or work temporarily, and often do not stay long enough at one counter to get in depth product knowledge. Most department stores do not have real training programs of the products they are selling. This is why they encourage reps from the fragrance companies to make sales visits and staff their product areas to pass on this product specific knowledge. The most successful cosmetic areas in dept. stores have their own company trained staff who have lots of product knowledge.

    It works better to just figure things out for yourself. If SA's knew all this stuff, there would be no need for a basenotes web site.
    Excellent points Buzzlepuff, to which I might add that retail sales staff are often hired at abysmally low wage rates to meet rather low staffing budgets. I spent a few years in retail managing, staffing, and training personnel. We often had to hire high school students because they were the only applicants willing to work for what amounted to be little more than minimum wage. Product knowledge training required weeks for some and months for others. Hiring those who came equipped with a warehouse of product knowledge was cost prohibitive for us.

    I have been collecting and wearing fragrances for over fourteen years and yet I know nothing compared to several Basenotes supporters. When interacting with an SA who knows less than I about fragrance, I put it into perspective that I am also a novice in another related environment.

  21. #21

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    You're looking at this all wrong. Instead of bemoaning the underpaid, under-motivated SA's lack of knowledge about the products she is flogging, why not view it as a golden opportunity to blind her with the stupifying brilliance of your own impeccable fragrance connoisseurship? After all, what good is knowledge if you can't show it off (and at the same time make some innocent person wither in the shame of their inexcusable ignorance)?

    Griff

    Whatever happened to "please" and "thank you?"
    Last edited by Griff; 8th November 2007 at 06:39 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Scoring a date with the SA after demeaning and being condescending towards her?

    Think i'll pass on buying that bridge, thank you...
    Last edited by knightowl; 8th November 2007 at 07:27 PM.
    Are you not entertained??? Is this not why you are here??

  23. #23

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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Riv View Post
    I have her number and have a date on Saturday..
    I like how he throws this in when it has nothing to do with the question in the post.

    Also, I see why she says Pi is MUSKY, It's not like Aqua Di Gio, or Mugler Cologne, so initially it's a heavier scent then those in which most refer to as a musk type fragrance. Musty reminds me of an old room in your grandparents house that hasn't been used in 10+ years and just has a stale air smell to it.
    Last edited by 1280adam; 8th November 2007 at 09:36 PM.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by knightowl View Post
    Scoring a date with the SA after demeaning and being condescending towards her?

    Think i'll pass on buying that bridge, thank you...

    Bingo! We have a winner!

    And so this too makes no sense...

    Now I do not know your guys experience but mine is horrible.
    or, does it......?


    Dan
    [SIZE=3][SIZE=2]"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." Ayn Rand...[/SIZE][/SIZE]

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  25. #25
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    I think I lot of people use the term "musky" as an antonym for "light/fruity". Nothing to do with actual musk. An SA once told me that YSL's Jazz was "loaded with musk". It's a fresh woody-floral fougere.

    And I would just like to add that if he were really literally dragging her around by the wrist and talking down to her, he would not have a date unless there was something seriously wrong with the SA in question. It was probably just aggressive rhetoric. At least I hope so.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  26. #26
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    I'll have to agree with the SA on this one. I get a strong musky note in the drydown of Pi.
    Last edited by teflondog; 8th November 2007 at 11:53 PM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    ---
    Last edited by thenmarcher; 7th December 2007 at 12:37 AM.
    "Why not seize the pleasure at once?"
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  28. #28

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    If I were her, I would stand you up on Saturday. Let's see who has the last laugh.
    I'm simplifying my life. For Sale Thread (some niche, some designer):
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  29. #29

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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Wow, this seems amazingly condescending and cruel, not just to blue collar workers but to women in general. Maybe she was just afraid to say no after you grabbed her wrist? Maybe she's a masochist?

  30. #30
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    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    It appears a little Basenotes knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  31. #31

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    LMAO... I love Basenotes
    I'm so fo sho' it's no facade/ Stay out of trouble momma said as momma sighed/ For her fear her youngest son be a victim of homicide/ But I gotta get you out of here momma.. Or I'm gonna die..Inside...So either eay you lose me momma/ So let loose of me!

  32. #32

    Default Re: So um, why dont counter ladies know anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by knightowl View Post
    Scoring a date with the SA after demeaning and being condescending towards her?

    Think i'll pass on buying that bridge, thank you...
    agreed.


    Vanilla a little citrus and Oakmoss give it that woodsy smell... I describe it as musty.. funky
    wouldn't it be easier to refer to it as, oh, i don't know... woodsy?
    Last edited by chad278; 9th November 2007 at 05:32 AM.
    current favourites: guerlain vetiver, trumper eucris, adp colonia
    latest swag: cdg man2, lolita lempicka au masculin
    next buys: keiko mecheri oliban, michael by michael kors

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