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Thread: Old Lady?

  1. #1
    DeeOlive's Avatar
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    Default Old Lady?

    For the past few years of reading perfume blogs and forums, and only surfacing to post quite recently, I have become more and more irritated by certain reviewers and posters who use “old lady” as an adjective to describe scents they don’t like, coupled with other equally uncomplimentary terms like “musty” and “stinky”. Whether they are consciously or unwittingly ageist, I’d like to issue a protest against, and make an appeal to those who throw these terms around so loosely.

    In defense of my age group, those 60 and above, it is ironic that also used are terms like “classic” to describe those fragrances that have withstood the test of time. So why not use equal terms to describe those wearers of same?

    I certainly don’t refer to scents as “teenaged body odor” or “pre-pubescent locker room funk” or “insipid teen” if a particular perfume seems youthful, or too youthful for my tastes.

    There are quite a few reviewers here at basenotes that do this – but I’m not just finger pointing here – there are even more at MUA. It might be helpful if the reviewers posted their ages – and signed themselves “callow youth”. No one here would accept blatant racism – or homophobia – they would be trounced quite quickly I believe, but the offensive language inextricably linked to those of us who are mature in age goes unchallenged. I had a classy mom who died in her 80’s and a beautiful grandmother, who was close to 90 when she passed on and lots of other elder role models as a child – and they set the standards for me in elegance and style. I couldn’t wait to get older and be more sophisticated.

    So now I am older. And yes, I like scents not necessarily designed for ingénues. But the over application of scent is a crime that has no age limits – it is done by all and sundry from a wide range of age sets. Poor taste in perfume is also not age specific; neither is bad hygiene.

    Perhaps it might be nicer if one just says “I found the perfume to be too sophisticated or complex for my current stage of development” Or “it evoked a maturity I have not yet achieved – perhaps I’ll revisit it in 40 years, should I be fortunate enough to live so long”.

    I wish I could be here 50 years from now to read these boards, but that is unlikely. A gentle reminder that those of you who are younger will one day grow older, and hopefully others will be gentler with you.
    The fragrance of flowers spreads only in the direction of the wind. But the goodness of a person spreads in all directions.
    Chanakya

  2. #2

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    The point has been made before, but your words here express it especially well, DeeOlive. The longest of the previous discussions (here and here, for the record) heated up enough that both were eventually locked. Hopefully this one will retain the respectful tone with which it began...
    Spray it, don’t say it…
    WARDROBE

  3. #3

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Hi DeeOlive that's a good point. I think I prob might have said I've been told I smell old sometimes, so I'm sorry if I offended anyone! I know it can work both ways too though; I hear some people say things are juvenile and meant for teenage girls and although it's a little irritating I don't mind too much - being the thick skinned, insensitive person I am sometimes

  4. #4

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Thank you for reminding us not to be ageist.

    I believe I used the word "teeny-bopper" recently and my apologies to those of you it offended.

    We should all be able to use specific descriptive adjectives rather than generalities and ageist statements.

  5. #5
    DeeOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulSC View Post
    The point has been made before, but your words here express it especially well, DeeOlive. The longest of the previous discussions (here and here, for the record) heated up enough that both were eventually locked. Hopefully this one will retain the respectful tone with which it began...
    Thank you Paul - the previous threads did not come up in my search.
    The fragrance of flowers spreads only in the direction of the wind. But the goodness of a person spreads in all directions.
    Chanakya

  6. #6

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Good post, I am concerned for the feelings of others, too. Some of the people using those terms could only hope to live up to a woman like my mother or some of the other ladies I know or have known.
    Last edited by beachroses; 24th November 2007 at 12:05 AM.

  7. #7

  8. #8

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    I totally agree that we must avoid getting "ageists".I always try not to offend people,f.ex in reviews etc,but my sincere appologies if i've ever said anything that has hurted people My mom has a tendency to comment that some of my scents smell like "grandma" to her,and that IS a bit irritating.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Part of what I like about DeeOlive's post is that she points out this prejudice without denying that there are ways in which people change their minds and tastes with age. We aren't just relics of the decade in which we entered the adult world, yeah?, especially here in a group like BN. So many of us are interested in exploration and experimentation as much as in comfort or some notion of a Holy Grail. Perfume has to do with who we are, how we present ourselves most truly or powerfully, etc.
    In the other arts it's so natural to look to the past for cues about technique, image, ways of being in the world that might be useful now. Among writers, for instance, there's more a sense that the young and the old, even the living and the dead, share the condition of being writers more than they are separated by time.
    Luca Turin tells a story somewhere, I think in a review of Guerlain's Vetiver, about a woman who dressed in a coolly manish mode in the late 60's (I think) and wore Vetiver. And she just came across to boy Luca as cool, as an older (than him) woman with particular style and power. I hope that as perfumery comes of age as a popular art some of this weird parochial stuff about age and smell will lift. People of all ages live without their own style, imagination, or determination; and people of all ages are cooler than many of us young'uns. Long may they swagger and stride.
    Last edited by Strollyourlobster; 24th November 2007 at 01:43 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    A very good point, Dee and well put.
    I've been guilty of refering to an 'old lady' note on occasion and you've made this 40-something think again. I'll try to be more accurate in future and perhaps describe the kind of lady I'm thinking of, rather than just her age. After all, a 60-year-old ski instructress is likely to smell different to a 75-year-old dowager duchess dressed for the Opera or a 70-year-old gardening fanatic like my Mum.

    In truth the smells I have labelled 'old lady' in the past have tended to be those that conjure specific references for me - reminded me of particular people I know, such as my late Grandmothers, my Great Aunt and a friend of my Mother's who was particularly chic. All were born in the first years of the Twentieth century and were in their heyday in the 'Flapper' era of the 1920s-30s.

    In future, I promise to be more specific and less ageist. And I'll take in on the chin if anyone wants to describe a scent I like as middle aged, middle-brow or middle class.
    "A woman who doesn't wear perfume has no future." Coco Chanel

    I'm streamlining my collection http://community.basenotes.net/showt...29#post1219729

  11. #11

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Yes! Thanks Wordbird! I'd love to know more about the particulars of fragrances preferences in particular decades and places. Maybe I ought to start a post on this topic. Has this sort of historical or personal-history thing been done in the past, anyone?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Beautifully said Dee!

    I recall a review on another board for (Tabu I think?) who said, "this is a very sophisticated "mature" scent that my ultra chic and much adored Grandmother would have spritzed on in the Rolls on her way to a New Years Eve Bash!" (or something to that effect)

    Now that's a lovely and respectful description!
    "Woe to the one who's love of elixirs, grows into madness"
    :bounce:

  13. #13

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Different people will have different perceptions of scents, depending on past experience and age. I have never used the word "old lady" but some things do smell dated to me, if the scent was overused during a certain period of time I lived through - patchouli oil, for instance. Younger people would not have that association, so my using that word in a review would be of no use or help to them.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    As one who uses 'old lady' to describe some perfumes, I am posting my age here, as someone headed that way and fighting against it daily. The 'old lady' reference I generally make is something that I find reminiscent of my mother's handbag. My mum was 15 years older than my dad and I was adopted, so she was ALWAYS an old lady, and was often mistaken for my grandmother when I was at primary school. I myself am 48, so certainly no spring chicken. I therefore reserve the right to use whatever phrase I choose to describe or evoke a particular smell. I do not believe in self-censorship, or indeed any other kind. And if 'spotty youth' or 'pre-pubescent teen' evokes a fragrance, then I'll use that too. It saves endless paragraphs worth of attempts to describe what can easily be evoked in two words. If all we're doing is describing how something smells to us, and two words helps others to understand what is being described, I can't see the harm. It's not as if anyone is pointing out a specific age group, and it's rarely, if ever, taken that way.
    "I don't know the key to success,
    but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
    Bill Cosby

  15. #15

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Maybe a thesaurus would help you learn to express yourself better.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Old lady smell or old man smell?
    As someone pointed out out on another thread on this very subject, here on basenotes.... we can do better than that!
    "Woe to the one who's love of elixirs, grows into madness"
    :bounce:

  17. #17
    DeeOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Thanks folks. Am very heartened by your replies.

    One of the things that attracted me to basenotes was the wonderful prose/poetry used to evoke scents - even those that some reviewers may eschew. Not just basenotes - I read now Smell This and Bois de Jasmin regularly - and those reviewers are masters of their craft - describing scents.

    I am not arguing for censorship - I spent too many years as a radical broadcaster on Pacifica radio to ever condone the limiting of expression; fought for George Carlin to say certain 7 words on the radio; but as the foremost site on the web where those of us - old, young and middle - come to read, learn, and share about a mutual love of the art of perfume, we should I think attempt to expand our palette of adjectives. Particularly if some choices we make are more apt - and less hurtful. Am in accord with Beachroses - a thesaurus is not a bad tool to have.

    I never realized how difficult it was to describe scents until I made an attempt on a rose forum a few years back to put into words the differences between and among various aromatic roses - which are described simply in certain catalogues as "fragrant" "moderately fragrant" or " little scent". I doubt any rosarians (the perfumistas of the rose world) would ever use "old lady" to describe the perfume of certain classic roses, which for whatever reason may not be the current fashion. Especially since many of us are well over 60 Many dowager roses have titles like "Empress" or "Duchess" or "Queen".

    I applaud the time and efforts of those of you who have put pen to paper or fingers to keyboard to fill the database here with marvelous flights of wordplay to capture what is so elusive and subjective.

    Write on!
    The fragrance of flowers spreads only in the direction of the wind. But the goodness of a person spreads in all directions.
    Chanakya

  18. #18

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    This is very interesting.
    I was reading DeeOlive's post and all the posts that followed and agreeing with them that age discrimination is as ignorant and intolerable as race or gender discrimination.
    Then I remembered my son's description of Paloma Picasso. He was seven years old when he coined the name, "Rich Old Lady."
    Here's the interesting part: He likes Paloma Picasso.
    And this is more interesting: I have grey hair. I bore him when I was almost 42.
    My point? "Old" holds no negative connotations for him.
    His adored grandmother is now 88. His revered aunt is 50.
    All of the "old" women in his family are fun, irreverent, zany, and unconventional.
    Old rocks in his estimation.
    The real offense on these boards is this: when people insinuate that "old" equals "devitalized, outdated, or repulsive."
    People should use these specific terms and not hide their insults behind words that are merely descriptions of age.

  19. #19
    DeeOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Purplebird - your son rocks - in my estimation.
    The fragrance of flowers spreads only in the direction of the wind. But the goodness of a person spreads in all directions.
    Chanakya

  20. #20

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Lady Dee,

    I’m blessing the day that your quest for roses and a scent for your darling husband landed you here.

    Even here at basenotes where we work on overcoming it (some, with incandescent brilliance), there can be such a gap between scent and language that it can be hard to tease out words that match our impressions.

    “Old lady” is however, poor shorthand- it can mean too many things and completely sidesteps any inquiry into whether it is a quality of the scent itself or a matter of one’s personal associations. Both are legitimate (If basenotes isn’t a place to explore how scents make us feel, I don’t know what is.) It is one thing to say that a particular fragrance is inextricably associated with ones (fictional) frightful Great Aunt Agatha, and you just can’t get past that. Not at all the same as saying that something has a particular vintage vibe or that something actually smells like a musty attic or an unaired room (can we keep musty in the vocabulary? To me it isn’t pejorative- some of my oakmossy favorites are musty to my nose). And those are all separate issues from whether a perfume seems generally better suited for one age group or another. (There are mature ladies who can wear ingénue scents well and twenty-somethings who can rock ‘fumes meant for dowager duchesses.)

    And if Dee is a sizzling salsera at 60-ish, tango and swing at 50 do seem a bit less of a stretch.
    Sending BEMs scuttling back to Betelgeuse with my fierce fumage!
    http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=200749

  21. #21

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeOlive View Post

    Perhaps it might be nicer if one just says “I found the perfume to be too sophisticated or complex for my current stage of development” Or “it evoked a maturity I have not yet achieved – perhaps I’ll revisit it in 40 years, should I be fortunate enough to live so long”.
    It would be nicer but not anymore accurate, because I don't think that's what anyone means when they say "Old Lady". :>
    I mean, I know plenty of old fools.
    The term really doesn't decribe a scent at all, imo, for better or worse. I assume they mean it reminds them of what the older people they know have worn, or a popular style of scent among certain age groups.
    I think a more accurate term would be 'old-fashioned'.
    Last edited by leffleur; 24th November 2007 at 10:26 PM. Reason: misspelling

  22. #22
    DeeOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyra View Post
    Lady Dee,

    I’m blessing the day that your quest for roses and a scent for your darling husband landed you here.

    Even here at basenotes where we work on overcoming it (some, with incandescent brilliance), there can be such a gap between scent and language that it can be hard to tease out words that match our impressions.

    “Old lady” is however, poor shorthand- it can mean too many things and completely sidesteps any inquiry into whether it is a quality of the scent itself or a matter of one’s personal associations. Both are legitimate (If basenotes isn’t a place to explore how scents make us feel, I don’t know what is.) It is one thing to say that a particular fragrance is inextricably associated with ones (fictional) frightful Great Aunt Agatha, and you just can’t get past that. Not at all the same as saying that something has a particular vintage vibe or that something actually smells like a musty attic or an unaired room (can we keep musty in the vocabulary? To me it isn’t pejorative- some of my oakmossy favorites are musty to my nose). And those are all separate issues from whether a perfume seems generally better suited for one age group or another. (There are mature ladies who can wear ingénue scents well and twenty-somethings who can rock ‘fumes meant for dowager duchesses.)

    And if Dee is a sizzling salsera at 60-ish, tango and swing at 50 do seem a bit less of a stretch.
    Kyra, we will have to see some pics of you doin' the tango - hmmmm - what scent will you wear?

    I truly appreciate the welcome and comraderie here (though my checkbook is slimming as a result)

    I laughed at your reference to Great Aunt Agatha - we all have/have known one of those, or the male equivalent, I think.

    But what you stated was so on point- if there are personal associations - then describe them...we have such a love/hate relationship with scents, sounds...perhaps that is why perfume evokes music so often; the floodgates of memory open when triggered by a particular smell - or chord. I know for myself that I can only describe certain scents by referencing a jazz tune or a Bach cantata. Others stir darker emotions of despair, or lost loves, and regrets. As a young woman I would curl up in bed, apply a certain scent and play Billie Holliday's Gloomy Sunday over and over again, mourning a love affair gone sour. I still recoil when I catch a whiff of a man passing by wearing his signature, and that was 40 years ago.

    BTW - I like that - "sizzling salsera" . I'll have to remember that when my arthritis has me predicting rain.
    The fragrance of flowers spreads only in the direction of the wind. But the goodness of a person spreads in all directions.
    Chanakya

  23. #23

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7 View Post
    This is very interesting.
    The real offense on these boards is this: when people insinuate that "old" equals "devitalized, outdated, or repulsive."
    People should use these specific terms and not hide their insults behind words that are merely descriptions of age.
    Exactly. I'm sorry, but I have to say it: It seems to me that so many people who complain about the harm of the term 'Old Lady' are either making that connection themselves, or focusing solely on instances where it was used in a derogatory way. It isn't always used that way. I understand when it is thrown into the same sentence as 'stinky' and 'mothballs', but it isn't always.
    Years back, I was planning on getting my grandma (who was in her late 60's at the time) a gift of perfume and wanted to know what kinds she liked. She didn't say"green-florals" or "orientals", etc. She said, "I like all kinds - as long as it doesn't smell like an old lady."
    I was confused, but I just took it to mean nothing too powdery. I think I got it right, because she loved what I chose for her.
    Last edited by leffleur; 24th November 2007 at 10:54 PM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7 View Post
    This is very interesting.
    I was reading DeeOlive's post and all the posts that followed and agreeing with them that age discrimination is as ignorant and intolerable as race or gender discrimination.
    Then I remembered my son's description of Paloma Picasso. He was seven years old when he coined the name, "Rich Old Lady."
    Here's the interesting part: He likes Paloma Picasso.
    And this is more interesting: I have grey hair. I bore him when I was almost 42.
    My point? "Old" holds no negative connotations for him.
    His adored grandmother is now 88. His revered aunt is 50.
    All of the "old" women in his family are fun, irreverent, zany, and unconventional.
    Old rocks in his estimation.
    The real offense on these boards is this: when people insinuate that "old" equals "devitalized, outdated, or repulsive."
    People should use these specific terms and not hide their insults behind words that are merely descriptions of age.
    I totally agree, Purplebird. Old really does rock. It stands for experience, wisdom, knowledge younger people will never have, never having experienced the times older people describe to them, other than by watching films - which is never the same. I like the way you put that. Some of us simply don't have the vocabulary, or writing skills that are being called for in this context. Or the time, for that matter.

    So I'll end with a quote - and it's not exact or precise, it's a vaguely remembered one, so if anyone knows the exact wording, and is pedantic enough to correct it, please go ahead: "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
    "I don't know the key to success,
    but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
    Bill Cosby

  25. #25

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clemmie View Post
    As one who uses 'old lady' to describe some perfumes, I am posting my age here, as someone headed that way and fighting against it daily. The 'old lady' reference I generally make is something that I find reminiscent of my mother's handbag. My mum was 15 years older than my dad and I was adopted, so she was ALWAYS an old lady, and was often mistaken for my grandmother when I was at primary school. I myself am 48, so certainly no spring chicken. I therefore reserve the right to use whatever phrase I choose to describe or evoke a particular smell. I do not believe in self-censorship, or indeed any other kind. And if 'spotty youth' or 'pre-pubescent teen' evokes a fragrance, then I'll use that too. It saves endless paragraphs worth of attempts to describe what can easily be evoked in two words. If all we're doing is describing how something smells to us, and two words helps others to understand what is being described, I can't see the harm. It's not as if anyone is pointing out a specific age group, and it's rarely, if ever, taken that way.
    I agree with you Clemmie. And your signature quote ("I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." - Bill Cosby) is quite appropriate here too.

    I believe the terms "old lady"/"old man"/"old person"/etc. are as legitimate as any other subjective or abstract terms used to describe perfumes. Even the perfume companies themselves sometimes use completely fictional terms or concepts to describe the notes in a perfume. They are meant to invoke a mental picture or feeling in the buyer's mind, but everyone's picture or feeling will be a little different. "Old-woman-smell" may be a vague and somewhat derogatory description, but it gets to the point of some peoples' overall first impression of some perfumes - sort of an executive summary. Now, I can't explain exactly what my impression of an "old lady" perfume is, but I know it when I smell it.

    Here's an article linked to the Basenotes front page in which a professional perfumer says "In spite of the fact that it [White Shoulders] made me smell like a 70 year-old woman, it did open me up to the pleasure of wearing fragrance, and I haven’t stopped since."

    What does she mean by this? Had she been around many 70 year-old women and this is exactly what they smelled like? Did she have a 70 year-old grandmother or know another 70 year-old woman that wore the same perfume? Was 70 an arbitrary number she considered "old" at the time or was she familiar with 60 year-olds and 80 year-olds that smelled different than 70 year-olds? I don't know exactly what she means by this, but I have a general idea, so she got her point across to me.
    Last edited by MadScientist; 24th November 2007 at 11:32 PM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    White Shoulders is what I wore in the eighth grade. lol!!

  27. #27

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Hmmm....

    There are times when I've used this term but I never meant it in a derogatory way. For me it has one of two meanings:
    1)A fragrance that I've actually smelled on an older woman(or women).
    2)Shorthand for the smell of my mom's old burgundy and gold silk make up bag which smelled musty, powdery, rosey, lovely, and antique.

    I'd imagine a woman in her 60s & beyond with silver hair, usually wearing clothing that you're only allowed to wear once you reach a certain level of experience(opulent, rich fabrics, furs, dripping in jewelry) would use to perfume herself. I try not to use it as I know some may take offence, but that doesn't bother my mother.

    I've tried to push some of my unloved perfumes off onto she in her 50s of the flowing silver hair, face framing glasses, and weather predicting joints and her response to some of them??? "Eiuuw! That smells like old lady!"

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Old Lady?

    One your senior just stopping by to laud the post, DeeOlive. It's been enjoyable reading -- this thread.

    ...But I'm tired. So I'm off to hunt for my glucosamine-chondroitin tablet, spritz some Old Spice, and take a nap now. (I'd intended to wear something more exciting but I can't seem to remember where I put my generic citrusy, aquatic, ozonic, celebrity clubbing scent?!)

    Enjoy your salsa.

    Age is something that doesn't matter -- unless you are a cheese. ~ Billie Burke

  29. #29

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    God bless us...
    Wear what you like, wear what smells divine to you.

    Descriptors are tricky things-
    But perhaps such terms as musty, powdery, mildewed, antiquated,or 'mothball' might be more evocative.

  30. #30
    DeeOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Too many responses over night to respond to specifically, point by point – and this thread is moving towards closure probably, but I will stick to my original premise – which is when coupled with adjectives like stinky, urine, mouldy (and a long list of other pejoratives I found last night when I googled “old lady perfume”), it is ageist. I stick to my guns on this one.

    This society is ageist. The fact that older people use ageist terms about and in reference to themselves ( symptomatic of cultural constructions of what is or is not estimable) does not absolve us of the intelligent responsibility to be more careful when using certain terms. I am not trying “to please everybody” (the Bill Cosby quote – will not respond more since that will take me way off topic)

    I am pleasing myself by speaking up. I live by the slogan “Silence = Death”.

    I love being 60. I love myself, my gray hair, my experiences and my perfumes – most of which fall into the “old-lady” category according to my web surfing collection of comments and reviews – Guerlain’s, Caron's, Patou's, Rochas, Myurgia’s. I choose to call them “classics”. Those of you who are content to use “old lady” as your limited descriptors – so be it. Hopefully, some folks will think twice, and dip into longhand – rather than shorthand catch-phrases in future discussions and reviews.

    I don’t use sexist terms or racist ones – having born the brunt of them my whole life. I have educated myself about ageism, and have thankfully lived in other cultures where there is a completely different perspective on what “old” is or isn’t. I love being considered an “elder” in my religious community and ethnic groups. I try to act accordingly – it was pointed out by Leffleur that there are “old fools”. Hopefully, I am not one of them. People refer to “young fools” also. Perhaps fools – without an age tag would be more appropriate.

    PaulSC pointed out that this discussion has cropped up here on basenotes before, quite a few times, and MadScientist added links. Thank you again. I apologized for not having used the search function correctly, and spent sometime last night reading past comments, including those that were closed. One particularly interesting thread was:
    “Hurt Old Lady” initiated by TDDanae
    http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=187870

    The fact that this crops up quite frequently, in some ways proves my point – it does hurt or distress some members/readers, and is indicative of a rather laissez faire callousness for those who either ignore or dismiss the frequent plaints.

    In the real, not cyber world, I am an applied medical cultural anthropologist specializing in HIV/AIDS, who happens to be currently teaching Women’s Studies and Cultural Anthropology. Sociolinguistics - language – its meaning, and the way we use words in a cultural context tells us a lot about people and how they view and treat or interact with others. I mention this because my academic discipline affects how I process what I read. Yes – I love perfumes. Hence, I’ve dived into basenotes. It would be quite easy to simply sit here and discuss what fragrance I’m sampling, or wearing today without any sidebar comments at all. But would I feel comfortable about remaining mum? No.

    This is an extraordinarily articulate online community, with a diverse demographic membership and few threads here limit themselves to simple discussions of top, middle and basenotes. Tastes in scents, clothing, literature, quotations, music, cars, shopping, dating, sexuality and sexual preference come into play here regularly – since all are part of cultural constructions of identity. Is that not the essence of the quest for a scent that becomes a “signature”? Or one that expresses how one feels about oneself and beauty, nature… subjective yes, personal yes, but clearly a commentary.


    Off now to explore other threads and to enjoy my latest arrivals of “classics” or hopefully soon to become classics.

    BTW Ezho – love that quote “Age is something that doesn't matter -- unless you are a cheese. ~ Billie Burke”
    The fragrance of flowers spreads only in the direction of the wind. But the goodness of a person spreads in all directions.
    Chanakya

  31. #31

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Hi DeeOlive!

    Ably posited.

    Ably defended.

    All threads reach closure but I'd like to see this one stick around for awhile longer!

    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could to where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, ...... I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost

  32. #32

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Wow, Dee...
    I would love to pick your brain- seriously.
    In my 53 1/2 years I've done a lot- nursing in neuroscience, oncology, teaching, vocal pedagogy, opera, catering, raising two sons...etc.

    Linguistic anthropology is on my list of loves.
    [And , probably like yourself- I've worked w/ the AIDS/HIV population since before there was a name for it- another love of mine]

    We should talk.
    In addition to perfume adventures and hopefully mentoring- [ and the goal of creating a CD compilation of vocal repertoire for my sons as a legacy]-
    I'm exploring the hope of delivering Palliative Care in my neighborhood, along w/ Senior Health.

  33. #33

    TaoLady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Lady?

    You children are so cute.

    In a cloud of today's SOTD Popy Moreni - and six months past my 78th birthday - I can't imagine what all the fuss is about.

    Lighten up!
    "The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." Lao Tze

  34. #34

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    I'll let Whitney Houston and Chaka Khan say it for me... I'm Every Woman! Let's dance!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iJ7JCVq7Cw
    Last edited by beachroses; 25th November 2007 at 03:42 PM.

  35. #35
    DeeOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taolady View Post
    You children are so cute.

    In a cloud of today's SOTD Popy Moreni - and six months past my 78th birthday - I can't imagine what all the fuss is about.

    Lighten up!
    Touché TaoLady

    I hope I smell half as wonderful as you always do when I'm 78!
    --------------------------------------
    And dancin' round the room to awesome Chaka Khan and Whitney - thanks for the link Beachroses
    Last edited by DeeOlive; 25th November 2007 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    The fragrance of flowers spreads only in the direction of the wind. But the goodness of a person spreads in all directions.
    Chanakya

  36. #36

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    When people say old lady I imagine some poor neglected old dear in a nursing home - a bit musty and incontinent.
    If all folks mean is something smells old fashioned, then that's what they should say (though perhaps classic is a better description!)

  37. #37

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    Silence = Death
    Indeed.
    Well spoken.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    And sometimes silence is golden.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Old Lady?

    I too have noticed similar sorts of "old man" comments in threads from time to time. While I'm 52, I don't consider myself all that old, but I do like and wear many classic scents that others may find smell like "old man." But I was wearing things like Knize 10, Antaeus, the Halstons, and many older Casswell-Massey blends when I was in my twenties. And now I sometimes wear a number of currently trendy fragrances. Fragrances have been and still are for me simply fragrances. It has never occured to me until I began participating in this forum that fragrances have anything to do with age.

    What bothers me most about this attitude is the narrow mindedness of it. I could care less if someone thinks that I'm old or smell old. I'm far too independent, successful and comfortable with myself to worry about what other people think. I dress neatly, have good hygiene, groom myself, wear quality fragrances, and behave in a socially acceptable manner. If that's not good enough for someone, then that's just tough.

    I actually feel sorry for those people who make these "old man" or "old woman" comments. Here we are in a forum for serious fragrance lovers, and some people are dismissing out of hand many wonderful fragrances which have withstood the test of time to become classics solely because they remind them of older people. As a fragrance lover I just don't understand this attitude at all. The fragrances deserve more respect than that!

    It's akin to dismissing Rennaissance art or Classical music simply because they're old. Never mind the skill involved in their creation, their great beauty, their impeccable balance, their awesome complexity, their universality, their emotional appeal, the stimulation and spiritual uplift they can provide! Along this same line of reasoning, Citizen Kane and The Seventh Seal would be considered awful films because they are in black and white and are old.

    I feel sad because these so-called fragrance lovers are willingly depriving themselves of so much pleasure. The "ageism" issue that some people seem to take offense to doesn't bother me at all. But it does bother me that these people take such cavalier and dismissive attitudes towards great fragrances without taking the time to understand them. They aren't offending me by their "old man" comments, but they are shortchanging themselves and willfully hindering their development in understanding and appreciating great fragrances.

    I can only shake my grey, "old man's" head and feel sorry for these poor unenlightened souls who turn their backs on the light.

    noggs

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