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  1. #1

    Default Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    I have always wondered why when you pass a female wearing perfume, her smell seems to remain in the air for much longer than a man's. Or you can smell her perfume in the air after she has left. I can't seem to replicate this effect with cologne.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Floral fragrances often have high substantivity. (e.g they are reasonably though not excessivly volatile *and* have a low odor threshold)

  3. #3
    gupts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Quote Originally Posted by vickbains View Post
    I have always wondered why when you pass a female wearing perfume, her smell seems to remain in the air for much longer than a man's. Or you can smell her perfume in the air after she has left. I can't seem to replicate this effect with cologne.
    Excellent question for your first post mate...

    I too have always wondered why can i always smell female scents when a female just crosses me? I mean their scents have such amazing 'sillage'.
    I have tried spraying over 10-12 times but i haven't been able to replicate that.

    The only explanation that comes to my mind is that perhaps the women respray themselves all the time and that 'florals' generally last longer.
    The only cologne that made me think that maybe i had found a male scent that could make people turn around when i cross them was Antaeus. When i wore it the first time, i remember i said to myself...that yeah this is the one that will be as noticeable as most women fragrances.

    gupts

  4. #4

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability


    There are a number of reasons, but a very important one is the ubiquitous presence of the aromachemical Hedione, which has the ability to intensify other notes, lift and brighten them, and to "waft" them. Arcadi Boix Camps, doyen nose and expert on the use and development of aromachemicals, classifies the last 40 years, since the introduction of Hedione, as the Hedione era given its ubiquitous presence and centrality to so many women's perfumes.

    scentemental


    Last edited by scentemental; 4th January 2008 at 01:03 PM.

  5. #5
    ChrisW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Is the presence of Hedione strictly in women's perfumes? Are there any notable men's fragrances with this aromachemical?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Eau Sauvage Has Also Hedione But Does Not Have The Same Effect.

  7. #7
    ChrisW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    I have not tried Eau Sauvage, but I read on Bois de Jasmin blog that there was a significant amount.

    http://boisdejasmin.typepad.com/_/20...nce_ingre.html

  8. #8

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post
    I have not tried Eau Sauvage, but I read on Bois de Jasmin blog that there was a significant amount.

    http://boisdejasmin.typepad.com/_/20...nce_ingre.html

    Significant only in the sense that it was the first use of Hedione at that level in perfumery. How insignificant it really is can be seen when one considers that in some women's perfumes, Hedione was subsequently used at levels as high as 25% of the perfume oils. Roudnitska himself downplayed the importance of Hedione in Eau Sauvage.

    I am sure it's present in more men's fragrances than we imagine, especially since the 1990s when the more diffusive fresh trend began, but other chemicals along similar lines of diffusivity were developed and used instead of Hedione because it has a tendency to act as a floralizer and so was probably avoided to a certain extent in men's fragrances. If I have time, I'll try to post something on these other Hedione like aromachemicals used in men's fragrance and see if I can confirm which men's fragrances have Hedione in them. That's not a easy task given there's a dearth of writing on men's fragrances by industry experts.

    scentemental



    scentemental


    Last edited by scentemental; 4th January 2008 at 02:00 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Interesting what Scentemental says about Hedione giving this effect to perfumes. When I'm building fragrances at home, I tend to reach for the hedione often-- I love its effects. Ever since I became aware of its importance to the composition of Comme des Garçons Odeur 53, I've been intrigued by hedione.

    I initially used hedione when I was working on making a womens' floral scent, but have since experimented with using it in many different types of scents across the gender spectrum, including masculine fragrances. The best description of the effect of hedione is that of "a ray of sunlight"-- pretty accurate. It's like an inner radiance that comes from the fragrance/skin. A lyric from the Sugarcubes always dances into my head when I pick up my bottle of hedione-- "Gold is the sweat, of the sun."

    One recent scent that I think I detect a very prominent hedione note is Bulgari's Au Thé Rouge (Red Tea). Au Thé Rouge smells like a sunkissed tanic red wine/apple-skin on the hayride in the last days of September. The hedione gives it that sunkissed note.

    I think womens' scents may "waft" better for many of the legitmate reasons mentioned-- however it could also be that as men, our noses may be more tuned to pick up the smell of women-- while we may tune out mens' fragrances (especially since so many men don't wear fragrance at all). At the same time, women are probably better at smelling mens' colognes-- because that's what they're looking for.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    I notice mostly male fragrances around me and rarely female fragrances. Whoever made me got my wires crossed obviously.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    I smell scents 'wafting' off of men all the time!

    I don't know if this is specific to Miami, but tons of guys over apply very strong fragrances (D&G PH, Acqua di Gio...do I really need to list the rest...you know what I'm going to say) and these fragrances also have the ability to fill up an entire room with their scent. Just yesterday our office intern (who BTW is from France) walked by and I could smell his SOTD very clearly as he walked by.

    It was Eau Savage. No kidding.

    Of course I smell fragrances 'wafting' from women also (one of the ladies in my office fills the room with the smell of Aromatics Elixir when she walks in...it smells so sexy on her). But, I think that I notice it on men just as much as I do women.

    On a side note: I remember Luca Turin (and Chandler Burr for that matter) suggesting that men shouldn't leave a trail of scent behind them, like women do. I have always followed this advice myself.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    I smell scents 'wafting' off of men all the time!

    I don't know if this is specific to Miami, but tons of guys over apply very strong fragrances (D&G PH, Acqua di Gio...do I really need to list the rest...you know what I'm going to say) and these fragrances also have the ability to fill up an entire room with their scent . . .
    Mike,

    Three of the most important and ubiquitous aromachemicals that account for most aquatic, ozonic, marine type accords and that explain the Acqua di Gio PH diffusion phenomenon you allude to are: Calone®, Helional®, and Precyclemone B®.

    There are a number of woody tobacco aromachemical odorants that account for the powerfully diffusive nature of fragrances like D&G Pour Homme. The names at the moment escape my memory, and I am not in a position to reference my notes.

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 4th January 2008 at 03:29 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    There's an interesting read of hedione and jasmine here:
    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...f-jasmine.html

    There's some history and they said hedione adds a 'green floral note' and 'revolutionized men's scents.'

    If all that is true, then there probably are a TON of men's fragrances with hedione (or at least a chemical with similar attributes but without adding a 'green floral note'). Especially with the fresh fragrances trend in the 1990s. (All of which Scentemental noted.)

    What Indie_Guy said was interesting too, the psychological 'notice what you are looking for' gender distinction. I was in the mall last night and I noticed a woman's perfume at a restaurant because it seemed to smack me in the nose and was very powerful. It was like she just sprayed it in the air (who knows, she may have). I also noticed a men's perfume later on as I was walking. The men's perfume that I detected was because it was oversprayed, but the women's seemed more 'natural' in the respect that I wasn't detecting excessive quantity but more 'wafting'.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    I am anxious to read scentemental's further comments, I do hope you have time to expand my friend!

    I absolutely never come across anyone else's scent in my daily life. I stand out like a sore thumb if I leave any sillage and I almost always receive a comment/compliment if someone notices my scent.
    Even my wife and daughter have an extremely light hand when using fragrance.
    I am jealous of those who are lucky enough to experience these "wafts" of scent every day!

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    Mike,

    Three of the most important and ubiquitous aromachemicals that account for most aquatic, ozonic, marine type accords and that explain the Acqua di Gio PH diffusion phenomenon you allude to are: Calone®, Helional®, and Precyclemone B®.

    There are a number of woody tobacco aromachemical odorants that account for the powerfully diffusive nature of fragrances like D&G Pour Homme. The names at the moment escape my memory, and I am not in a position to reference my notes.

    scentemental
    I'm just guessing, but I would imagine these same chemicals could be found in those AXE body spray/deodorants that are wildly popular also. Everytime someone sprays one in my locker room the scent lingers atleast for a few minutes - long after the sprayer has left the room. Coupled with the fact that the marketing of these products practically suggests that it be overapplied...the 'wafting' quotient just keeps going up and up!

  16. #16

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post
    There's an interesting read of hedione and jasmine here:
    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...f-jasmine.html

    There's some history and they said hedione adds a 'green floral note' and 'revolutionized men's scents.'

    If all that is true, then there probably are a TON of men's fragrances with hedione (or at least a chemical with similar attributes but without adding a 'green floral note'). Especially with the fresh fragrances trend in the 1990s. (All of which Scentemental noted.)

    What Indie_Guy said was interesting too, the psychological 'notice what you are looking for' gender distinction. I was in the mall last night and I noticed a woman's perfume at a restaurant because it seemed to smack me in the nose and was very powerful. It was like she just sprayed it in the air (who knows, she may have). I also noticed a men's perfume later on as I was walking. The men's perfume that I detected was because it was oversprayed, but the women's seemed more 'natural' in the respect that I wasn't detecting excessive quantity but more 'wafting'.
    Interesting and thoughtful observations Chris. I am actually researching the use of all these kind of aromachemicals in modern perfumery for my book. I will try to post a thread with a synopsis of the chapter when it's somewhat done as there seems to be some interest for that kind of stuff here.

    Best regards,

    scentemental

    P.S. I am sure there are indeed a ton of men's fragrances with hedione, and in retrospect, I don' t think its floralizing tendencies exclude it from being used in men's fragrances. It's such a chameleon ingredient that it tends to take on the character of whatever it's mixed with and turns up the tonality and the radiance. I suspect, though, that we can safely say that it's not used in the same quantities as it is in women's fragrances. I seem to recall that it's used in Marc Jacobs for Men and that makes sense since it's a fragrance built around a jasmonic gardenia heart.

    Of course, thanks to Indie_Guy for his always interesting reflections and for reminding us that GdG's Odeur 53 is built around Hedione.



    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    I'm just guessing, but I would imagine these same chemicals could be found in those AXE body spray/deodorants that are wildly popular also. Everytime someone sprays one in my locker room the scent lingers atleast for a few minutes - long after the sprayer has left the room. Coupled with the fact that the marketing of these products practically suggests that it be overapplied...the 'wafting' quotient just keeps going up and up!
    No doubt Mike and an excellent observation to boot. We forget how often fine perfumery trickles down to mass market. Chanel No. 5, for example has ushered in, over the years, a slew of formulas used for scenting all kinds functional products.

    scentemental

    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by evogel View Post
    I am anxious to read scentemental's further comments, I do hope you have time to expand my friend!

    I absolutely never come across anyone else's scent in my daily life. I stand out like a sore thumb if I leave any sillage and I almost always receive a comment/compliment if someone notices my scent.
    Even my wife and daughter have an extremely light hand when using fragrance.
    I am jealous of those who are lucky enough to experience these "wafts" of scent every day!
    E.! So good to see you back and posting my friend! The board is a richer place when you share your thoughts with us.

    I am sorry you don't have a lot of contact with fragrance in your daily life outside your own practices. It's pretty much the same where I live. I have over 50 colleagues at work and only an older women in her early sixties consistently wears fragrance. Giorgio Beverly Hill Red is her signature fragrance, which smells so good on her that I bought myself a bottle. It's excellent stuff.

    Again, wonderful to have you back, and I promise to post more of my research as it progresses.

    Best regards and a happy new year to you,

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 4th January 2008 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    In no way do I want to contradict anything written above on this thread, and my explanation is thus nothing that excludes the above, but:

    I was super pissed off when my old girlfriend wore my Habit Rouge, Fragonard Vetyver, and CdG 2 (not CdG2Man) and gave of huge amounts of fantastic sillage and easily had 24 hour wearings of each. Damn, how do you do that, I'd ask, I can smell you all over this restaurant tonight and I saw you put it on this morning! I can never get duration and power like that, I'd tell her. Her answer: "you just have a supremely sensitive nose."

    Maybe. But I also noticed that when she got out of the shower she oiled herself up every morning with skin softening lotions. I joked that showers for her were to wash oils off, the lotions were to put it back on again. I think all the skin care and lotion product purchasing she did extended her sillage and duration of the scents that she picked off my shelf.
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    I think women move about ten times as much air as men when they walk. Not only because of the nature of the clothes they wear (skirts, robes, loose fit, fluffy texture, etc) but also because of their longer hair, and maybe even because of the shape of their body's.

    My two cents
    Last edited by Domingo; 4th January 2008 at 07:15 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Quote Originally Posted by Domingo View Post
    I think women move about ten times as much air as men when they walk. Not only because of the nature of the clothes they wear (skirts, robes, loose fit, fluffy texture, etc) but also because of their longer hair, and maybe even because of the shape of their body's.

    My two cents

    No that's a really interesting and original thought Domingo. It makes a lot of sense to. I am sure the movement of the body and the clothes has something to do with the sillage. It makes perfect sense.


    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by DustB View Post
    In no way do I want to contradict anything written above on this thread, and my explanation is thus nothing that excludes the above, but:

    I was super pissed off when my old girlfriend wore my Habit Rouge, Fragonard Vetyver, and CdG 2 (not CdG2Man) and gave of huge amounts of fantastic sillage and easily had 24 hour wearings of each. Damn, how do you do that, I'd ask, I can smell you all over this restaurant tonight and I saw you put it on this morning! I can never get duration and power like that, I'd tell her. Her answer: "you just have a supremely sensitive nose."

    Maybe. But I also noticed that when she got out of the shower she oiled herself up every morning with skin softening lotions. I joked that showers for her were to wash oils off, the lotions were to put it back on again. I think all the skin care and lotion product purchasing she did extended her sillage and duration of the scents that she picked off my shelf.
    --Chris
    Certainly another astute observation on the difference between the sexes and its relation to sillage.

    scentemental


    Last edited by scentemental; 4th January 2008 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  20. #20

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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Absolutely excellent thread, please continue!!

  21. #21

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Interesting thread. I also think that we experience our own fragrances less due to olfactory habituation. People detect my fragrances long after I think they're gone. And I notice that after I eat strong smelling food my SOTD suddenly returns in much greater strength because I have "reset" my nose just like those cans of coffee beans at the fragrance counter.

    I also think that what you are experiencing is just one of those mysteries of women that shall never be revealed. Or maybe it is the lotion.

    Scentemental, so glad to see your postings over the last couple of days. Educational and thoughtful as always. A rich counterpoint to the sideways turn the board had taken recently.

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  22. #22

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    I have always though that a gender will smell stronger the fragrances of his counterpart because those scents are somewhat strange for him/her. I often wear female scents, and when I do, I ask my girl friends, if they like it. They usually say that I just smell "clean" or that they can barely detect the scent I am using.

    Now the hair. It is amazing how much scent it can hold, even if it is only the scent of shampoo. And oh yes, Women are usually less afraid about spaying a bit more than men.

    About Axe: the way those deodorants work is by using volatile, very aromatic fragrances that will fill up a room in 4 seconds but will only last ten minutes. spray axe and observe the particles. They are not as heavy and dense as the EDT. That is why they are so annoying.
    Last edited by irish; 21st September 2008 at 09:27 PM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    In a PM yesterday, I was asked what I thought about Parfum d'Habit's sillage as opposed to Kolnisch Juchten's.

    I know that sillage is described as the 'wake' left by a person's fragrance after that person has left the room.

    I am more interested in the specific fragrance notes that cause or enhance sillage. I started looking on the internet but didn't find anything useful - just more definitions of 'sillage'.

    I should have checked Basenotes first, as this thread is the best I have found. It hasn't given me a complete answer but it has provided me with enough information and direction to focus my search.

    Any thoughts on notes that are either sillage monsters themselves or that enhance the sillage of other notes? Any guidance and insight would be greatly appreciated!
    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could to where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, ...... I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost

  24. #24

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    TwoRoads, the ones that spring to mind within my own personal experience, are notes like:

    Oud
    Vanilla

    Both (IMO of course) seem to imbue all the air around me with scented molecules. I guess much of it also has to do with the quantity of essential oil used in the fragrance.
    (Not a very scientific answer, I know, merely an observation)
    Last edited by Sorcery of Scent; 21st September 2008 at 05:03 PM.

  25. #25
    Renato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Bumping up threads more than six months old is against the etiquette guidelines of the Forum Rules.
    Renato

  26. #26

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Renato, are you serious?
    Is so, then Im sure TwoRoads and I are both oblivious to this rule (?)
    I think you're pulling our leg!

    Kids, don't listen to him (No wonder the newcomers to the forums are confused as to what they ought and ought not to post)...

  27. #27
    Renato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post
    Renato, are you serious?
    Is so, then Im sure TwoRoads and I are both oblivious to this rule (?)
    I think you're pulling our leg!

    Kids, don't listen to him (No wonder the newcomers to the forums are confused as to what they ought and ought not to post)...
    Here are the Guidelines, straight from the Forum Rules.
    The fifth one is the applicable one. I guess it stops the resurrection of departed members, and the predisposition of some members to engage in the conservation of new threads.

    I find them annoying, especially the one's that I've already responded to, and those that semi-worship departed members.
    Renato


    Etiquette Guidelines

    These are suggestions to help make every one's experience more enjoyable. These are not rules per se but suggestions. However, consistently displaying bad etiquette may be considered a breach of the spirit of the rules.

    If you are new to fragrances, you are recommended to post in the Just Starting Out forum. This forum is designed to help people who are new to fragrances. You shouldn't be afraid to ask a question there, no matter how silly it seems. We aim to provide a friendly area where people can come and learn.
    Welcome newcomers - if you are an 'old-timer', try to think back to when you first joined and how daunting it may have been. A new member shouldn't be made to feel stupid for asking what you may see as a stupid question
    Before you post, make sure that you do a quick search to make sure that your question or subject has not been recently covered. It can be frustrating to see the same question posted each week.
    Try to avoid replying to threads that are over six months old. Information may be outdated, so it is best to start a new thread in these cases.
    Members should avoid the posting in all CAPS LOCK, using 'leet' speak or using 'u' for you etc as this can make posts difficult to read. It is worth remembering that English may not be the first language of other members.
    If you have nothing of use to add to a thread, then there is no need to post to it.
    Refrain from making negative comments about a another member's thread - you are more than welcome to start a new thread on something you find more interesting!
    If your thread is not answered, avoid getting angry or constantly bumping it. Members will answer questions if they are able to and if they want to.
    Last edited by Renato; 21st September 2008 at 05:46 PM.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    I know about those guidelines, and now that it's really become a question here, I've got to say that I think there's a risk to following them. The risk being a loss of the information on this thread. Why wouldn't a member who finds it, reads it, enjoys it, and wants to interact with its information, not want to be a part of the thread?

    There are times for avoiding bumping old threads, but there are times also for the value of vintage. If things become a problem that'll be clear quickly and something to do something about.

    If the principle of bumps really offends a member, I urge that member to drop me a note by PM.

    Also, now that we've had this issue come up out in the open on this fine thread, I'd really rather the thread not become a discussion of the etiquette requests the site makes. I'd really like it if discussions of wafting and ingredients with staying power, and pretty women's delcious sillage can remain and not become about bumping pros and cons.

    I thank everyone and assure you all that I'm happy to consider thoughts about this by PM.
    Thanks!
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    I find the ' use the search function' and the ' do not resurrect old threads' a bit contradictory in a way, but that might just be me.

    And Renato it sounds like you have a bigger problem with the infamous posters in the resurrected threads than with the actual resurrected content.
    But once you get locked into a serious perfume collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.
    Currently wearing: L by Lolita Lempicka

  30. #30

    Default Re: Female Fragrances "wafting" ability

    If we can bring this thread back on topic, I would really appreciate it.

    I am very interested in furthering my education and gaining a better understanding of the specific notes that cause or enhance the sillage of a fragrance.

    Thanks!
    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could to where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, ...... I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost

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