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  1. #1

    Default Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Taking Sofresh's idea of a comprehensive list of iris fragrances, I thought it might be a good idea to put together a similar resource for carnation scents. I'm thinking of trying to limit it to carnation soliflores and fragrances with a dominant note of carnation rather than carnation as a note among many.

    1. Bellodgia ( Caron )

    2. Carnation ( Comme des Garçons )

    3. Blue Carnation ( Roger & Gallet ) - popular but discontinued

    4. Carnation ( Avon )

    5. Red Carnation ( Ava Luxe )

    6. White Carnation ( Ava Luxe )

    7. Oeillets Rouges ( Dawn Spencer Hurwitz )

    8. Oeillet Sauvage ( L'Artisan )

    9. Carnation ( Madini )

    10. Dianthus ( Etro )

    11. Garofano ( Santa Maria Novella )

    12. Garofano ( Lorenzo Villoresi )

    13. Poivre ( Caron )

    14. Krasnaya Moskva ( made by....? )

    15. Incarnation ( Ayala Moriel )

    16. Golconda ( JAR )

    17. Soie Rouge ( Maitre Parfumeur et Gantier )

    18. Equipage ( Hermes ) - carnation and pine

    19. Malmaison ( Floris )

    20. Billet Doux ( Fragonard )

    21. Terracotta Voile d'Ete ( Guerlain )

    22. Cacharel Pour l'Homme ( Cacharel )

    23. Tabac Original ( Mäurer & Wirtz )

    24. Coup de Fouet ( Caron )

    I haven't tried the majority of these, so if one of them isn't a carnation fragrance or you feel something should be added, let me know!
    Last edited by Sugandaraja; 16th January 2008 at 10:43 PM. Reason: more fragrances added to the list.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Good idea. I think there should be a focused thread for every major ingredient (hint hint y'all).

    A few more:

    -Golconda by Jar
    -Soie Rouge by Maitre Parfumeur et Gantier
    -and I believe Dioressence has a prominent carnation note.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Hermes Equipage
    Estee Lauder Spellbound
    Last edited by loungeboy; 8th January 2008 at 11:01 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Floris Malmaison
    "I felt something so intense, I could only express it in a perfume." - Jacques Guerlain

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Thanks for this! Did you search through the Directory to get it?
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

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  6. #6

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Quote Originally Posted by sofresh View Post
    I think there should be a focused thread for every major ingredient.
    I hope it catches on as a trend: I know when I was hunting for iris fragrances having a to-smell list made things much easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaimeB View Post
    Did you search through the Directory to get it?
    Partially ( for the ones with "Carnation" in their title ): mostly I've been hunting out carnation fragrances for my mom, who really likes the scent ( along the way I've adopted it too ). There are some I found but left out because they fell into the category of long extinct fragrances; Blue Carnation got a look in because I found it had a wide following.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Great idea Galamb - my additions:

    Dianthus by Etro
    Billet Doux by Fragonard
    Terracotta Voile d'Eté by Guerlain

    EDIT: Oops, sorry! I just realized that these are women's fragrances...so I'm not sure if they belong on the List. It's your call, Galamb.
    Last edited by mikeperez23; 9th January 2008 at 01:28 AM.
    "You are here to enable the Divine purpose of the Universe to unfold. That is how important you are."

    -- Eckhart Tolle

  8. #8

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    Great idea Galamb - my additions:

    Dianthus by Etro
    Billet Doux by Fragonard
    Terracotta Voile d'Eté by Guerlain

    EDIT: Oops, sorry! I just realized that these are women's fragrances...so I'm not sure if they belong on the List. It's your call, Galamb.
    The iris list focused on men's scents and "man-friendly" scents. But I think there are always exceptions...its a subjective argument. Either way, if Bellodgia is there, then what they hay!

    ps - check out the Violet thread...I know you'll have lots to contribute!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Monsieur Galimard
    Le 3e homme de Caron
    Ce message provient du Québec!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    EDIT: Oops, sorry! I just realized that these are women's fragrances...so I'm not sure if they belong on the List. It's your call, Galamb.
    I put quite a few womens scents in the original list, so it's fine. I'm making this list as more of a "carnation list" rather than a "mens carnation list", primarily because carnation is one of spicier, androgynous florals; secondly because it's on the same forum the iris list got started on.
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Monsieur Galimard
    Le 3e homme de Caron
    The reviews I've read of these don't seem to mention carnation as the dominant note: can anyone offer their opinions on this matter?
    Last edited by Sugandaraja; 9th January 2008 at 02:36 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  11. #11

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Cacharel Pour l'Homme

  12. #12

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    LV Garofano (a little too strong for my taste though)
    Tabac Original EDC
    Worth PH

    My preference lies with the more floral carnation than the spicy, clove dominated carnation, hence the preference for Tabac & Worth... Worth is a masterpiece IMHO.
    In rotation: Greenbriar (new), Silver Mountain Water, Dunhill for Men (1934), Acqua di Parma Colonia, Habit Rouge EDC, Ho Hang, B*Men, Agua Brava

  13. #13

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Old Spice
    “love lasts a long time, but burning desire, two or three weeks.”

  14. #14

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Golconda is carnation based? I am so very doomed.

    I love me my clove gillyflowers and I've only tried about 8 of these.Thanks for doing the homework.
    Sending BEMs scuttling back to Betelgeuse with my fierce fumage!
    http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=200749

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Galamb_Borong View Post
    I put quite a few womens scents in the original list, so it's fine. I'm making this list as more of a "carnation list" rather than a "mens carnation list", primarily because carnation is one of spicier, androgynous florals; secondly because it's on the same forum the iris list got started on.
    Thanks Galamb.

    I only own Malmaison but I rarely wear it. It's incredibly carnation prominent - however, I must admit that the CdG Carnation (Red Series) and its spiciness intrigue me more. When my Malmaison is gone, the CdG will most likely replace it.

    I like carnation scents, but I can't really imagine wanting to own more than one.
    "You are here to enable the Divine purpose of the Universe to unfold. That is how important you are."

    -- Eckhart Tolle

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    oops...
    Last edited by fredricktoo; 17th January 2008 at 06:03 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    I only own Malmaison but I rarely wear it. It's incredibly carnation prominent - however, I must admit that the CdG Carnation (Red Series) and its spiciness intrigue me more. When my Malmaison is gone, the CdG will most likely replace it.
    I'm ordering samples of a few carnation scents today - including CdG's - so I'll be interested to try it. I got a loud black tea note in Malmaison that intrigued me, but not a bottle's worth of intrigue, if you see what I mean.
    So far the best ones I've tried have been Caron's Poivre and Ayala Moriel's Incarnation. Poivre isn't a soliflore, but almost an apple pie fragrance with a very strong carnation note and little or no pepper after the top notes. Incarnation is very much a carnation soliflore, with a few modifying spices - nutmeg is mentioned, but to be honest, I get something else, almost incense-y - and a weird tart, woody note in the base. The latter is quite unisex, so I think I think it's definitely worth sampling.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Galamb_Borong View Post
    . . . . The reviews I've read of these [Monsieur Galimard
    Le 3e homme de Caron] don't seem to mention carnation as the dominant note: can anyone offer their opinions on this matter?
    See my first post in the following thread:

    http://community.basenotes.net/showt...ight=carnation

    scentemental



  19. #19

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Worth noting that almost all carnation accords are created from either various other floral and spice naturals and/or synthetics. Carnation absolute does exist, but it is very expensive (I logged two sources at $200 and $1000 an ounce) and rarely used.

    But follow scentemental's link above- it appeared while I was typing and gives the whole story on this.
    Last edited by Kyra; 9th January 2008 at 10:22 PM.
    Sending BEMs scuttling back to Betelgeuse with my fierce fumage!
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    I get a pretty good dose of it in YSL Jazz, but I'd say it's mostly a woody scent.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  21. #21

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I think I'm going to follow Sofresh's example on the Violet thread and split the list between soliflores and fragrances with a prominent carnation note.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    See my first post in the following thread:

    http://community.basenotes.net/showt...ight=carnation

    scentemental
    While I can definitely see clove and florals ( and their respective odor chemicals ) making carnation in most fragrances today, I must respectfully disagree about carnation and clove notes being equivalent. Having smelled some of the older, heavily scented varieties of carnation and the absolute ( in fact, I'm holding my bottle of it in front of me right now ), they are quite distinct. Clove is a drier, stronger, harsher and much plainer scent to my nose; carnation, while it shares a certain spicy quality, is more complex. Carnation - in addition to its clove qualities - has a tart, sweet, floral complexity; in the absolute there is almost a fortified-wine quality in addition to the floral characteristics. Carnations at most florists are weakly scented, over-bred things that aren't comparable to the scent of the original carnation - or, for that matter, many other members of the dianthus family - so I don't think they can be trusted as exemplars of carnation scent.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Galamb_Borong View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I think I'm going to follow Sofresh's example on the Violet thread and split the list between soliflores and fragrances with a prominent carnation note.



    While I can definitely see clove and florals ( and their respective odor chemicals ) making carnation in most fragrances today, I must respectfully disagree about carnation and clove notes being equivalent. Having smelled some of the older, heavily scented varieties of carnation and the absolute ( in fact, I'm holding my bottle of it in front of me right now ), they are quite distinct. Clove is a drier, stronger, harsher and much plainer scent to my nose; carnation, while it shares a certain spicy quality, is more complex. Carnation - in addition to its clove qualities - has a tart, sweet, floral complexity; in the absolute there is almost a fortified-wine quality in addition to the floral characteristics. Carnations at most florists are weakly scented, over-bred things that aren't comparable to the scent of the original carnation - or, for that matter, many other members of the dianthus family - so I don't think they can be trusted as exemplars of carnation scent.
    With all due respect, you've not read carefully nor understood what I am getting at and this is not the first time, which is fine, where it not for the fact that you misreprent what I say.

    While, you claim that "Clove is a drier, stronger, harsher and much plainer scent to my nose; carnation, while it shares a certain spicy quality, is more complex", I note that carnation absolute if it were used in perfumery "would smell predominantly "clovey" with refined peppery accents." I don't see that there's much difference between our respective characterizations, and I don’t see where here or anywhere else that I simply claim, as you suggest, that carnation and clove notes are equivalent. Give me a little more credit for being a little more sophisticated in my understanding and thinking than that.

    I didn't talk about carnations and cloves being equivalent. I discussed how carnation-like effects are produced in fragrances and about the common aromatic constituents that carnations and cloves share so that in perfumery, at least, the starting point is eugenol and isoeugenol. Clearly, a good reproduction of carnation, that gets closer to the complexity and delicacy of carnation absolute itself, is, as I illustrated, in the detail, the case of L'Air du Temps, in which the perfumer goes to great lengths not to make it just about clove. I thought that was illustration enough that I also knew the difference between the two. While, undeniably, eugenol and isoeugenol and the clove profile they clearly recreate are the starting point for any reproduction of carnation absolute, the reproduction is--and actually has been, historically--more an extension of the actual odor profile of carnation absolute itself as I will try to show in what follows.

    Your point about certain cultivars having the scent breed out of them is well taken, and certainly you're correct to point out that there is more complexity to the absolute than I suggested, but my point is that even if you get a carnation flower that has a complex odor, that does not make the absolute obtained from such a carnation flower automatically a floral absolute in terms of its odor profile. In terms of its origin, it is a floral oil--a carnation is a flower, there's no denying that--but there's a big difference between origin and actual odor profile. I tried laboriously to make this point with regard to orris root, not with much success it seems. Carnation is finally not a floral note because the constituents which give it its main odor profile are eugenol and isoeugenol, odorants we associate with spices because these odorants play a key role in certain defining spices, such as clove, which in turn give us a culturally specific sense of spiciness; in fact, eugenol and isoeugenol are the key elements in determining the "spicy clovey" character of other truer florals scents, like ylang ylang and rose, for example, and have been used to play up that feature of these truer florals, truer because their notes are predominantly floral in nature as well as origin. Hence, they are classified as true florals. As far as I know, perfumers don't categorize carnation's odor as floral; they characterize it as spicy. A vaguely floral aura can be detected in the absolute, but it's not a predominant or defining feature (more about this below). In fact, most carnation absolute that reaches the non-perfumery market is adulterated with various other elements to make it smell more floral. This has historically been the case, and it has historically been the case even in high end perfumery, when in earlier reproductions of carnation bases in the first half of the 20th century when up to fifteen percent of the actual absolute was used, floral elements were added to the base and there were various bases with various floral inflections used in various fragrances to provide a "carnation" note. That's still the case today in perfumery; although, very little to none of the absolute is ever used and it has been replaced with synthetics, but manly with eugenol and isoeugenol. Why? Because that's were you start and where perfumers have always started with carnation because they are the defining odorants. There are important minor constituents to carnation absolute, to be sure, which sometimes can give the main character to the odor profile of an absolute or oil, but in the case of carnation, the minor elements do not.

    About the pure absolute: it's prohibitively expensive and smells very little of anything remotely floral. Pure carnation absolute tends to have a sweet, weighty herbaceous honey like odor to it. Its “clovey with refined peppery nuances” I mentioned in the other post only reveal themselves after it has been significantly diluted when a vaguely floral component of a vaguely floral character can be detected among the spicy peppery accents. This is why natural floral oils that are high in isoeugenol such as ylang ylang and certain rose oils are used in reproductions of carnation absolute; they literally floralize it; interestingly, such florals don't simply reiterate the clovey peppery profile of carnation absolute; they work in synergy to actual bolster it and refine it and all the while making it more than just a clove note and adding other floral nuances to the carnation note the perfumer is trying to replicate but, actually, trying mostly to augment it because those floral notes are not there in the first place.

    More importantly, there's a big difference between the pure carnation absolute when you smell it neat and when you dilute it for use in perfumery. Even then, at least historically, it has featured as only one ingredient in carnation bases which are made up of a hell of a lot more things than the absolute itself. Using absolutes neat isn't the done thing and never has been; absolutes are diluted to very small concentrations for uses in perfumery where their character and effects are decidedly different than what you smell close up. That’s something you don’t seem to understand, so you’ll forgive me if I am lot miffed at your taking exception to what I supposedly claimed. I tried to make this point with regard to orris root, but the focus remained and seems to have remained on how flowers smell in nature when, in actual fact, how something smells in nature and or even how its absolute smells has a far more complex relationship to the final reality of how any note derived from nature in the form of an absolute or synthesized in the laboratory is actually used in perfumery. Again, I tried to make that point with orris root, but clearly I wasn't successful.

    Finally, my larger point in the post that I linked to and in terms of why I posted to this thread, is that clove notes and carnation notes as nomenclature are interchangeable because the clove profile these days stands in for carnation note. It's cheaper that way. The point was made in relation to the original question that started the thread I posted a link to, which was why was carnation listed in the pyramid of Cacharel Pour Homme when the only thing the person could smell was clove. My post provided an answer as to why that was the case, and I had hoped by extension it would do the same to your query, which was the genuinely helpful impetus behind my post. I guess it failed on that account too because you make no reference to it in your subsequent post. A simple acknowledgement would have been confirmation enough.

    I think I am wasting my time and the time of others.

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 3rd June 2009 at 06:06 AM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    With all due respect, you've not read carefully nor understood what I am getting at and this is not the first time, which is fine, where it not for the fact that you misreprent what I say.
    Not the first time? All I asked for in the iris thread was a clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    While, you claim that "Clove is a drier, stronger, harsher and much plainer scent to my nose; carnation, while it shares a certain spicy quality, is more complex", I note that carnation absolute if it were used in perfumery "would smell predominantly "clovey" with refined peppery accents." I don't see that there's much difference between our respective characterizations, and I don’t see where here or anywhere else that I simply claim, as you suggest, that carnation and clove notes are equivalent. Give me a little more credit for being a little more sophisticated in my understanding and thinking than that.
    I detected some floral qualities not covered by "peppery" present in carnation absolute, though, as you say, it might be adulterated.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    I didn't talk about carnations and cloves being equivalent.
    Not a direct equivalent, but I'm sure you can see why the following -

    Quote Originally Posted by scentimental
    Think "clove" when you read "carnation", and given the fragrance, perhaps "refined clove note" might be more appropriate.
    - might give that impression.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    In terms of its origin, it is a floral oil--a carnation is a flower, there's no denying that--but there's a big difference between origin and actual odor profile. I tried laboriously to make this point with regard to orris root, not with much success it seems. Carnation is finally not a floral note because the constituents which give it its main odor profile are eugenol and isoeugenol, odorants we associate with spices because these odorants play a key role in certain defining spices, such as clove, which in turn give us a culturally specific sense of spiciness; in fact, eugenol and isoeugenol are the key elements in determining the "spicy clovey" character of other truer florals scents, like ylang ylang and rose, for example, and have been used to play up that feature of these truer florals, truer because their notes are predominantly floral in nature as well as origin. Hence, they are classified as true florals. As far as I know, perfumers don't categorize carnation's odor as floral; they characterize it as spicy.
    I'm not entirely sure what to say to that, as to my nose carnation is within the floral category of scents. If others smell it differently, that's fine too. I can only speak with what my nose tells me when it comes to the classifications of what's "floral" and what's "spicy". Certainly I find carnation far less sweet than something like tuberose, but I also find something like spike lavender to be harsh in an almost non-floral way.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    That’s something you don’t seem to understand, so you’ll forgive me if I am lot miffed at your taking exception to what I supposedly claimed.
    No forgiveness required, though I feel the topic at hand is a rather odd thing to be miffed about ( aren't we just discussing how carnations smell? )

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    I tried to make this point with regard to orris root, but the focus remained and seems to have remained on how flowers smell in nature when, in actual fact, how something smells in nature and or even how its absolute smells has a far more complex relationship to the final reality of how any note derived from nature in the form of an absolute or synthesized in the laboratory is actually used in perfumery. Again, I tried to make that point with orris root, but clearly I wasn't successful.
    Personally, what made me first post to the iris thread was ( I believe ) Vibert's comment about fragrant irises, and an idle curiosity as to whether any soliflores were based around their scent. You responded with an in depth post about iris in perfumery, and I replied asking for a clarification about the iris / orris distinction. I don't seem to remember disagreeing with you on anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    Finally, my larger point in the post that I linked to and in terms of why I posted to this thread, is that clove notes and carnation notes as nomenclature are interchangeable because the clove profile these days stands in for carnation note. It's cheaper that way. The point was made in relation to the original question that started the thread I posted a link to, which was why was carnation listed in the pyramid of Cacharel Pour Homme when the only thing the person could smell was clove. My post provided an answer as to why that was the case, and I had hoped by extension it would do the same to your query, which was the genuinely helpful impetus behind my post.
    Yes, the two can be classified as similar, but as we both agree, they are different. The note of carnation was what I was looking for on this thread. If commercial nomenclature labeled something as carnation but everyone smelled it as distinctly clove, then I wouldn't include it on the list. There are quite a few borderline scents on there already: usually I go by how many reviews describe something as "clove" vs. how many as "carnation". If it's blended as to leave the effect undefined - for example, a fragrance with many notes, carnation being a minor one - then I wouldn't have a reason to include it on the list anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    I guess it failed on that account too because you make no reference to it in your subsequent post. A simple acknowledgement would have been confirmation enough.
    To be honest, your post simply sent the thread of conversation elsewhere. While I thank you for your time and effort, if the note is debatable, then it probably shouldn't go on a list of carnation fragrances. I was looking for personal impressions of said fragrances rather than a generalities about fragrance in general, however helpful they may be in analyzing a category itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    I think I am wasting my time and the time of others.
    Well, it takes me a while to remove all the blue color tags when quoting your posts, but other than that, I've always enjoyed reading them.
    Last edited by Sugandaraja; 10th January 2008 at 08:18 AM.

  24. #24

    Post Re: Comprehensive List of Carnation Scents

    "COUP DE FOUET" de Caron

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