Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Mudassir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,610
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Diluting methods/supplies

    How would you guys recommend adding alcohol/water to create the least clouding? From what I have read, water is the source that creates clouding. Why does water need to be added? Why not just alcohol? Is there a % of water based on notes you guys would recommend?

    Also, for really small amounts, would mixing alcohol and shaking the contents really well would do or stirring is still required?

    Is a diffuser or low heat warming required during mixing/stirring? Most of the oils I want to mix are strong wood based/musk based. Would snowdriftfarm's perfumer's alcohol be a good choice for these? Any recommendations for alcohol and supplies?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    I'd like to add to mudassir's questions and ask: How long after diluting an oil in alcohol can one reasonably assume it's "fully diluted."

    What I mean is, I'm going to dilute all of my essential oils in alcohol prior to mixing them. Can I just add some essential oil to alchol at say, 20% dilution, and then use that in a blend a minute later, or won't it be fully and evenly diluted in the alcohol by that point. I'm worried that if it's not, I may end up getting a drop that is at say, 50% dilution since it hasn't fully diffused yet.

    So, how long should one wait? And also, as mudassir asked, is heat or stirring needed? If they aren't needed, do they at least help speed up the diffusion process?


    Oh, and to answer one of your questions, I'd just use Everclear as your source of alcohol while you are still experimenting, mudassir. It's cheap and readily available. I've heard conflicting reports if it is actually legal to use if you are going to sell a product, but you could always switch over to perfumer's alcohol at that point in the future. That's my plan, anyhow.

  3. #3
    Mudassir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,610
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    Thanks, SOS. Based on my experiences with Everclear before, I have always ran into issues with clouding. I would rather get something (unless it is really expensive) that claims (and does) to address the clouding issue.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    Wow, that 5% water led to clouding?

    If I recall, the perfumers alcohol have about 4% water in them, too. It's extremely difficult to get rid of that last bit of water through distillation.

    Perhaps it was the ingredients you were using? I know some herbs can cause clouding. I think star anise, amongst others. I'm thinking of Absinthe and how when water is added to it it becomes cloudy.

    I also remember seeing, somewhere, perhaps on Snowdriftfarm's site, some ingredients one could add that were supposed to directly address the clouding issue. Lemme do some research.
    --------------------------------------
    Yup, it was on Snowdrift's site. I suppose you've already seen it then, but if not, it's on this page..

    http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/perfume.html

    There's a little blurb about Cremophor and a link to a page with more info.

    I look forward to hearing if the perfumer's alcohol has solved that problem for others. I wish I could be more help but I haven't even gotten my supplies yet (they're on their way though!)
    Last edited by SculptureOfSoul; 3rd February 2008 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  5. #5

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    you have to use distilled water to avoid clouding if you are adding water yourself

    you can use 90% alcohol which is available in Canada, and probably the United States as well, definatley in Europe

    Some EO's cloud against eachother, which is rare, but a bit of clouding in the vial will usually not affect the entire frag once your mixed it down into the alcohol.

    to answer how to dilute, this is my method, and I know its not totally exact, but since you use the same bottles every time, at least its consistent.

    add x drops you want for a dilution, say 5% so 5 drops to a dropper vial, then add 95 drops DPG using the same style of dropper vial that your original eo is in (most of them are quite similar). shake it around a bit of course...

  6. #6
    joxer96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    242
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    mudassir,

    Make sure you are using the 190 proof Everclear, not the 150 proof. That might be the reason you're getting clouding. Also, as someone mentioned, some oils tend to cloud. I've run into that problem with Ylang Ylang.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    Thanks, SOS. Based on my experiences with Everclear before, I have always ran into issues with clouding.
    You must not have had the 190 proof material. You will not get any clouding using the 190 proof material to dissolve essential oils (except ylang ylang).

    Why does water need to be added?
    It doesn't.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  8. #8
    Mudassir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,610
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    Dcampen,
    I have read you need to add a bit of water either to enhance sillage or longevity. Any recommendations about getting rid of it if it happens?

    Thanks!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    try using glycerine instead of water it wont cloud it up

  10. #10
    Mudassir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,610
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    Smellyliquid,
    At what stage do I add the glycerine, and how much? Won't it make the mixture oily?

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    14
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    SOS - i only occasionally run into clouding problems with perfumer's alcohol, and that is almost always when i work with an excess of citrus oils.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    Dcampen,
    I have read you need to add a bit of water either to enhance sillage or longevity. Any recommendations about getting rid of it if it happens?
    Which is it then, sillage or longevity? These tend to oppose one another. If you want to try to increase longevity you can use glycerine as already suggested or other slow to evaporate solvents but this will tend to teduce sillage and have a flattening effect on the fragrance.

    190 proof alcohol already contains 5% water, how much do you need. If you want to use much more you will want to use terpeneless essential oils.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  13. #13
    Mudassir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,610
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    Thanks Dcampen. I will try glycerine. Any suggestions as to what kind it needs to be and in what quantity?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    I will try glycerine. Any suggestions as to what kind it needs to be and in what quantity?
    I don't use glycerine. If I want to use a general purpose fixative then I will use a macrocyclic musk. The formulations of department store fragrances tend to use diethylphthalate as their general purpose fixative.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Diluting methods/supplies

    I've never needed to use this info but I've heard that if you get clouding from the addition of water and you can't get rid of it by adding back more alcohol, you can freeze the juice for an hour or so, then filter (using lab filter paper or a coffee filter if that's all you've got). Wet the filter paper first with plain alcohol so you don't lose precious juice to a dry filter.

    The one time I had clouding, I simply froze the juice for 2-3 hours and it became clear and stayed clear - no need to filter.

    Another fixative you can get from Linda at Perfumers Apprentice is Glucam P20. It does flatten top notes a bit and you only need a little.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •