Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Basenotes Plus

    JaimeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    5,402
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    140

    Default Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    After reading the thread about how to pronounce the word 'millésime" in French, I wrote a reply in which I mentioned that the word refers to a date, as on a monument or a coin.

    Well, I began to think about this... Why would Creed use this term to name a perfume? So I did a little investigating. I've been looking at a book by Annick le Guérer, Le Parfum: des origines ŕ nos jours (Odile Jacob: Paris, 2005, ISBN 2-7381-1670-1) and I decided to look up Creed in the chapter on niche houses. There (p. 281), she mentions the following:

    "In order to take into account the variations in aroma of natural products whose characteristics are not identical from one year to the other, the House of Creed offers an innovation. As on the bottles of great wines, the year is inscribed on the flasks of its Millésimes — eaux de parfum composed of very rare and very costly essences — taken from two thousand specimens. 'A synthetic rose that you bought in 1990 or 1995 is the same, but a natural rose... well, that one changes... and then someone says to me, "But your perfume has changed!" One indicates the year so that the clients will not be surprised at these changes." (Translation mine).

    So the "millésime" is the date on the flask that indicates the year of purchase of the key natural ingredients that went into the fragrance. Your 1995 rose may be greener, flatter, or spicier than 1990's rose crop was; therefore, you shouldn't be surprised that they don't smell the same. Creed is accounting for the yearly variation in natural products that it uses in its scents. I guess, like a wine connoisseur, you have to know that the grenache grapes in year X were fruitier than in year Y, and if you prefer fruitier grenaches, then you'd better buy the year X vintage bottles. If you live in Grasse, maybe you know what years the acacia flowers were really killer, and you'll look for one of those years on a Creed Aubépine Acacia. At least Creed has deniability if you say it wasn't the same as another year; but you can't expect Mother Nature to have the same consistency as IFF or Firmenich.

    So, children, that's why they're called "mIllésimes," which I never knew until now... but perhaps you did...
    Last edited by JaimeB; 27th February 2008 at 10:11 PM. Reason: correction
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

    My Wardrobe
    My Reviews

    Fiat justitia ruat cćlum.

    Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus

    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
    Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.

    —Seneca

  2. #2
    zztopp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    the Dirty South
    Posts
    6,632
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Cool - thanks. Has anyone experienced bottle variation with the Creed EDTs? I have first hand experienced bottle variation with the millesimes and private collection juices.

    Any other interesting info on Creed or other houses in the book ?
    -

  3. #3

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    I had no idea...thanks for the help.
    Current Wishlist: Vetiver Extraordinaire, Rousse & Opus 1870

  4. #4

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Yes, nearly all creeds, save a few, are tempermental little bastards aren't they. I was told by a SA that Millesime referred to the strength meaning "Parfum". Another classic SA example. Thanks for the info. It has done us all a great service! Now go about the earth and educate everyone of this life enigma!

  5. #5
    Lightninrod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Warner Robins, GA CSA
    Posts
    2,460
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    So the "millésime" is the date on the flask.....
    Is the flask the container that the bottles are filled from or is it the individual bottle?


    Dan
    [SIZE=3][SIZE=2]"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." Ayn Rand...[/SIZE][/SIZE]

    "The essence of fascism is to make laws forbidding everything and then enforce them selectively against your enemies."
    [URL="http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/2755"][COLOR=green]
    [INDENT]Daily Wardrobe [/INDENT][/COLOR]
    [/URL]

  6. #6

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Interesting. Thanks JaimeB.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Thank you, JaimeB!

    So Creed is going to take the pioneering oenology idea of Millesimes too
    As far as I know - L`Artisan and Givenchy both began the Millesime Theme in 2005 year. Maybe there were some more brands with the same idea.
    Like Stephanie Saint-Aignan who going to make a new perfume collection every year...

    By the way - I`ve never seen any marks about Millesime Year neither on my bottles nor on my boxes.
    Maybe they should articulate the idea more expressively? With date and ingredients?
    Or at least give that info to SAs?
    It would been nice trick to play with customers - like `That scent was made with 2003 Bulgarian rose and 2002 iris butter. Those harvests were so fantastic Creed bought all the reserve of it. Smell it and you find out why`

    I found Millesime idea rather good for marketing.
    Anyway there are a lot of people who want to look like specialists, and there are not so much customers who could describe the difference in rose harvests 2003 and 2004 - especially when rose oil amounts in fragrance is about 3-5% only... And other notes are not silent too!
    Vetiver The Great!!!

  8. #8
    Basenotes Plus

    JaimeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    5,402
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    140

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightninrod View Post
    Is the flask the container that the bottles are filled from or is it the individual bottle?


    Dan
    The word used in the French was "flacon." That can mean either a case-bottle or a smaller container. Certainly they must mark the large flasks so they know which year's product they are using. As for the individual bottles they sell, I'm not sure. I haven't kept the boxes my millésimes came in, but I think the date may be on those.

    Not being in the business, I wouldn't know anyway which years were best for the various essences (oils, absolutes, concretes, etc.). For me there wouldn't be much point in it. I buy all my Creeds at Neiman's in San Francisco, and I don't know how great a range of year-selection there would be. I imagine I would just have to take whatever I could get in any case.

    I think Creed's point is to guard against people alleging an alteration in formulation, when the only variation would be due to the natural variations in different crop years. My comparison to wine connoisseurs knowing vintage year quality was really just a flight of fancy. I don't think anybody would publish a "Creed Guide" like the wine guides that people consult for vintage year ratings!
    Last edited by JaimeB; 28th February 2008 at 05:50 AM. Reason: typos
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

    My Wardrobe
    My Reviews

    Fiat justitia ruat cćlum.

    Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus

    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
    Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.

    —Seneca

  9. #9
    P-Natra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Munich
    Posts
    1,252
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    I knew that!!! Millésime = age-group in German "Jahrgang"
    In one interview J.H. Creed said take always the box, which is 4 years older...if its 2008, than take 2004. Because with the years the essences grows (is like wine). This interview was for Original Santal www.creedcollection.com
    Thats true...from year to year the products are not the same...if its a bad year (for example SMW), than the production stops, till it is ok.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    here
    Posts
    2,622
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Wow! Very interesting news, thanks for posting this Jaime!

    Now we just need to figure out the scheme for the code.. time to start posting your bottle's "millsime"!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    How do you know your millesime if you have the spray bottle (30mL through 120mL, not the bigger flasks without sprayer)? I have a theory... look at the lot number printed at the back towards the bottom of your bottle. Seems that the last two digits represent the year. My Green Irish Tweed's lot number is AC1F06... does this mean 2006?

  12. #12
    Basenotes Plus

    JaimeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    5,402
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    140

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Quote Originally Posted by cologneguy View Post
    How do you know your millesime if you have the spray bottle (30mL through 120mL, not the bigger flasks without sprayer)? I have a theory... look at the lot number printed at the back towards the bottom of your bottle. Seems that the last two digits represent the year. My Green Irish Tweed's lot number is AC1F06... does this mean 2006?
    I went to Neiman's this afternoon to try to get to the bottom of this question. I looked at various Millésime packages and I discovered the following:

    1. Some of the boxes had a small rectangle outlined in gold on the upper part of the back of the box. Most of these were blank, but some had an embossed (not printed) year, like "2003."
    2. On the bottom exterior flap of the box there was a "Lot No." Most of these ended in a two-digit number, like "05." The ones I saw all had either "05," "06," or "07" on them. One box had a four-digit number, "2006."
    3. The SA on duty at the Creed counter told me very nicely that she didn't know much about the dating scheme, but she did say that the boxes without any dates at all were all "newer stock." She also very graciously asked me to come back tomorrow when the Creed person would be there and would be able to answer my questions.

    So that's where we are as of now. My own surmise, given that the date inside the little golden rectangle on the back of the box was always exactly three years earlier than the "Lot No." printed on the bottom of the box: The earlier date is the crop year or the year the essences were produced; the "Lot No." year (if that's what it is) is the year the perfume was bottled and/or shipped.

    I will be interested to hear what the Creed person says. In the meantime, if anybody has any certain knowledge on this subject, please chime in!
    Last edited by JaimeB; 29th February 2008 at 05:31 AM. Reason: typos
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

    My Wardrobe
    My Reviews

    Fiat justitia ruat cćlum.

    Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus

    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
    Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.

    —Seneca

  13. #13

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Good observations JamieB. For sure, try to get as much information as possible.

    I'm actually thinking the other way around with what you said about the date in the outlined box, and the Lot No.

    I think the Lot No. represents the crop year, while the other date in the outlined box is the bottled/shipped date.

    My Creed SMW has a Lot No. AF1T05, but doesn't have a date in the outlined box. I was told when I bought my bottle, it came from a brand new stock that just arrived. This also concludes with what the SA said about the newer stock not having any dates. But I guess this doesn't make sense because you said the date in the box is always 3 years earlier than the Lot No. Maybe they are stamping their boxes differently now? My Creed OV has a 2005 in the outlined box but no Lot No, but it came from a new stock because it has the newer style cap a la VIW. So confused

    What do you think? I think it can vary depending if there's a Lot No. or not.
    Last edited by nsamadi; 28th February 2008 at 11:49 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    The more knowledge the better! Thanks for sharing.

    I had purchased a 1oz. of Original Santal earlier this month from Sak's Fifth Ave. The last two digits of the lot number are 07. There's also the box with the gold trim and mine's empty.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Quote Originally Posted by moon_fish View Post
    Anyway there are a lot of people who want to look like specialists, and there are not so much customers who could describe the difference in rose harvests 2003 and 2004 - especially when rose oil amounts in fragrance is about 3-5% only... And other notes are not silent too!
    And if Creed is really high-quality as it's purported to be, then it's a must that the overall scent should not deviate by a noticeable degree from the original year's release, and year to year. One would assume that they maintain tight quality control of the consistency of the "crops" (natural ingredients) and would rather halt production for a year than release a "millesime" that smells noticeably different from last year's. That to me should be the hallmark of a quality niche product.

  16. #16
    P-Natra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Munich
    Posts
    1,252
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    I have an idea...the Millésime Imperial juice is now in a new glass bottle (not gold anymore)...check out the bottle and box and than you know!!!
    I always take the boxes with no numbers...these are the newest...I have to check the bottom of my Creed bottles...I let know.
    Last edited by P-Natra; 29th February 2008 at 12:37 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    anyone get boxes with stickers on the side of the box listing the ingridients.. and had the sticker have a lot number or date on it?

    i have some of those too.

    creed is really confusing to me still but i've decided its just not worth freaking over. they must realize the use of this 'millesime' dating is completely useless without consistency and transparency.

    bottles of wine have it so easy they just put a nice simple date on the bottle in the same place and its always there. but somehow creed can't figure it out that this is the easiest way to do it? they get all confused and can't remember where to mark the dates or which dates mean what or whether they feel like marking anything at all.

    the other thing about the bottles with no dates being the newest is also so weird. so what does that mean the people at neimans are the ones who stamp the dates on themselves when the bottles get older? what do they just make up dates? or does creed call them and let them know.. "oh that smw batch that was brand new and unmarked last year when you got it.. if you still have any of those unsold go ahead and mark lot: A094905 on those."

    or creed has only recently stopped marking dates for good?

    if chewbacca lives on the planet endor.. this does not make sense.

    bah whatever.

    my smw is unmarked and smells ridiculous awesome.. however it is different from my friends marked lot ending 06 bottle. and his smells pretty awesome too. as long as you like the smell thats whats what.

  18. #18
    Basenotes Plus

    JaimeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    5,402
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    140

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    So I went back to Neiman's today and talked to the Creed person, who was there as promised.

    This is the baseline explanation she gave me:

    The newest boxes of the Millésimes don't have any gold-bordered rectangle on the back, and if they have Lot Nos., they are on the side of the box. Creed has stopped putting the embossed year in the gold-bordered rectangle, she thinks, because they were afraid people were reading it as an expiration date. She thought on the old boxes the number in the gold-bordered rectangle was the bottling year and the Lot No. on the bottom flap was the shipping year; but when I explained my idea about the crop year, she thought again and said I might be right.

    Anyway, it looks like the information on the box has been abandoned... or is being abandoned, but some still have a Lot No. (now on the side of the box)... or, if you ask me, Creed is being inconsistent about the year-labeling thing.

    I wonder if people who have bought Creeds recently outside the U. S. still see they year information on the box? Anybody?
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

    My Wardrobe
    My Reviews

    Fiat justitia ruat cćlum.

    Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus

    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
    Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.

    —Seneca

  19. #19
    gupts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    S/E suburb
    Posts
    3,922
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaimeB View Post
    So I went back to Neiman's today and talked to the Creed person, who was there as promised.

    This is the baseline explanation she gave me:

    The newest boxes of the Millésimes don't have any gold-bordered rectangle on the back, and if they have Lot Nos., they are on the side of the box. Creed has stopped putting the embossed year in the gold-bordered rectangle, she thinks, because they were afraid people were reading it as an expiration date. She thought on the old boxes the number in the gold-bordered rectangle was the bottling year and the Lot No. on the bottom flap was the shipping year; but when I explained my idea about the crop year, she thought again and said I might be right.
    Now that is not a very well informed 'Creed representative'. I expected the person to be better informed than that. I mean how could the person give an explanation and then just say (after hearing your version of the story) that 'maybe you are right'.

    Did the representative tell you that he/she will get to the bottom of this and let you know?

    gupts

  20. #20
    Basenotes Plus

    JaimeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    5,402
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    140

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Quote Originally Posted by gupts View Post
    Now that is not a very well informed 'Creed representative'. I expected the person to be better informed than that. I mean how could the person give an explanation and then just say (after hearing your version of the story) that 'maybe you are right'.

    Did the representative tell you that he/she will get to the bottom of this and let you know?

    gupts
    I guess what I got from the conversation was mostly that Creed's thing about dating on the box is in the process of change. It may not be clear to people lower down in the organization exactly what's happening, so I'm not too surprised that she wasn't on top of the issue.

    Also, I think at her level, she's more worried about training SAs to sell better; I think Creed pushes the "quality of natural ingredients" line, but I don't think most customers know about the millésime system. Certainly the SAs don't. I've heard different stories about the dates on the bottles from them, and none were even close to what I've learned in the past few days.

    The thing about the book I quoted, though, is that the publication date is fairly recent (2005), and it surprises me that the author would quote Creed as she did if she knew they were in the midst of changing their box-labeling system. Of course, it *is* almost three years since the book came out, and who knows when she interviewed Creed.
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

    My Wardrobe
    My Reviews

    Fiat justitia ruat cćlum.

    Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus

    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
    Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.

    —Seneca

  21. #21
    Delmar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Oslo
    Posts
    1,396
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    Muy Interesante! I hope my Creeds are of a good vintage!

  22. #22

    Default Re: Creed: Why "Millésimes"?

    I was just looking at my official carded Creed samples and they even have a Lot No. behind them.....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •