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View Poll Results: Why do you dislike or are uninterested in all natural perfumes?

Voters
80. You may not vote on this poll
  • Haven't heard of them

    19 23.75%
  • Prices are too high

    14 17.50%
  • Quantities tend to be too low (often 5-10ml)

    11 13.75%
  • Dislike longevity of natural perfumes

    14 17.50%
  • Dislike projection of natural perfumes

    7 8.75%
  • Believe scents are limited due to all natural ingredients

    17 21.25%
  • Believe the perfumers are amateurs and offer an inferior product

    9 11.25%
  • Not me. I actually really like natural perfumes

    20 25.00%
  • Other

    14 17.50%
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  1. #1

    Question Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    There are a lot of ultra-niche natural perfumers, Anya McCoy, Ayala Sender (she seems to be the only one mentioned around here), Mandy Aftel and Afterlier perfumes, Artemisia all natural perfumes, etc, but they never seem to get mentioned here on Basenotes. There are a lot of reasons this could be. Please choose the best option(s) (you can choose multiple options) from the poll above describing why you haven't tried or don't care about all natural perfumes, and elaborate more in a reply.
    Last edited by SculptureOfSoul; 29th February 2008 at 10:51 AM.
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Hmm, I've been wanting to try out a lot of different natural perfumes
    - Ayala Moriel (Think that's what Ayala Senders lines called)
    - Ava Luxe
    - Black Phoenix Alchemy Labs (Does this count?)
    - Madini Oils (Does this count :P?)

    But, unfortunately samples are htf/pricey and as they're less publicised, I tend to go for the easier to obtain things first I don't question the perfumer's skill, as the reviews i've read, have spoken for themselves.

    The price is a bit high in comparison to the quantity (Ayala Moriel, mainly), but then again, they are super exclusive and hand made I can't fully comment about anything else, without trying some first, and thanks to Pellen, i'll be receiving some sexy Ava Luxe samples

  3. #3

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Black Phoenix definitely does not count, as it is clear they use fragrance oils based on the notes in some (many) of their blends. Madini I will have to look into. I can't say I know much about them.
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  4. #4

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    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Hmm, okay, what do you mean by they use fragrance oils based on the notes in many of their blends? After I get my Ava Luxe samples i'll be able to comment, and I also may order a small sampler pack off Ayala Moriel, any that you reccomend, and whats the difference between the oil and the extrait, which one has more projection and longevity (Nothing more than 8 hours, and as much projection and sillage as possible please ;D!)

  5. #5
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    Default

    They often smell good but usually aren't very satisfying - similar to Creeds, which are far from all-natural, and make abundant use of synthetics, but still can't satisfy.

    .
    Last edited by pluran; 27th May 2008 at 08:33 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    I am not familiar with the natural offerings myself, so I can't make any recommendations, sadly. Regarding my comments about BPAL - they often have notes in a perfume that simply aren't obtainable in any way from a natural source (most fruits, certain flowers such as honeysuckle, violet flower [oil can only be extracted from the leaves], etc.).

    Hopefully Ayala or some of the others mentioned will chime in here and shed some light on their offerings.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    I live in a place where even Hermes is not available from shops, and niche brand Creed is sold in only ONE shop, so I guess it's a real long shot that one can find those ultra-exclusive stuff here.

    And in a world where Creed and Amouage are already considered luxury by most, the more ultra-niche brands are simply inaccessible to most humans.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    Apparently many people like them, but it's been my experience that they often smell great but generally aren't all that satisfying.

    I love my essential oils though.
    Just curious in which manner they aren't satisfying? (hope this doesn't sound like I'm trying to make you defend yourself - i'm not - I'm really just curious, tis all. )
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    I would love love love to find blends of natural fragrant oils that were wearable and smelt like a million bucks. In fact, I'm experimenting with my own batches at home.

    Any really good classy ones out there?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    I don't like the way most of them smell!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Perhaps they turn rancid before anyone can form a solid opinion on them... Natural = goes bad quickly...
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    I never heard of the all-natural fragrances other than oils. I don't like most of oils because they vanish soon and are pretty one-dimensional.
    I don't think that I have access to the creations from the above mentioned perfumers because of where I am located currently and also because I assume they would be quite expensive.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    I had to pick "other" - I believe a fragrance has to smell good to begin with - and it does not matter to me if it is synthetic or natural.

    So I may have a few natural scents, and some with synthetic scent chemicals in it.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    I have to ellaborate a bit: Many of the topnotes are citrus or spice are are often just too pungent and sour for my skin. Flower essences are very tricky. Some of them can smell burnt, sour, or even chemical in their concentrations. They often don't smell like the live flower, but as if they were cooked, or worse, embalmed. Many rose essences smell like...pickles! I used to only want to wear natural perfumes but because of the sour, dirty, and dead notes, I am expanding my horizons. They just frustrate me, really. I want them to be naturally wonderful, magic elixers, but I don't have any in my wardrobe right now. White Lotus aromatics sent me some samples of their perfumes that I don't think are even for sale, and they are the most pleasent I have ever experienced in the floral realm. Eden Botanicals (as I think I've said 1,000 times) has the yummiest ambers ever, but they feel like "hippie perfume" to me now. I'm sure there are others, but I have been let down more often than not.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    There are a lot of ultra-niche natural perfumers, Anya McCoy, Ayala Sender (she seems to be the only one mentioned around here), Mandy Aftel and Afterlier perfumes, Artemisia all natural perfumes, etc, but they never seem to get mentioned here on Basenotes. There are a lot of reasons this could be. Please choose the best option(s) (you can choose multiple options) from the poll above describing why you haven't tried or don't care about all natural perfumes, and elaborate more in a reply.
    cuz they usually smell bad and no one other than tree huggers really care??? was that an option?? :P

  16. #16

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Quote Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
    I have to ellaborate a bit: Many of the topnotes are citrus or spice are are often just too pungent and sour for my skin. Flower essences are very tricky. Some of them can smell burnt, sour, or even chemical in their concentrations. They often don't smell like the live flower, but as if they were cooked, or worse, embalmed..
    Do you think this is an inevitability with natural perfumes, or just a result of poor or improper blending?
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Download record of Luca Turin's now defunct blog from here: http://lucaturin.typepad.com/; and see a bemusing/amusing/entertaining/enlightening debate on the topic. Some of the natural perfumers mentioned in this thread participated in the debate.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    Do you think this is an inevitability with natural perfumes, or just a result of poor or improper blending?
    If a rose essence smells like "pickles" it may just be the quality of the materials used - I don't know if its inherent in the absolutes and essential oils or if it is the oils and abolutes used. Making good perfumes - synthetically based or non synthetically based - it probably limited by the quality of materials used.

    I would love tog et a perfume book that detailed why the perfume companies started changing ingredients.
    Last edited by Bromo33333; 1st March 2008 at 11:07 AM.
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  19. #19

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    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Quote Originally Posted by lunarpanic View Post
    Download record of Luca Turin's now defunct blog from here: http://lucaturin.typepad.com/; and see a bemusing/amusing/entertaining/enlightening debate on the topic. Some of the natural perfumers mentioned in this thread participated in the debate.
    I suspect, Luca Turin got (understandably) tired of the subject and it's proponents after a while. When that discussion didn't seem to come to an end he closed his blog altogether. The idea had originally been to discuss 'Duftnote' articles with his English speaking audience worldwide. It's amazing how much attention this blog got retroactively. I hardly lasted for more than six months .

    I had to pick other because I don't know which of the industrially made colognes / perfumes are still made with enough natural ingredients to call them 'natural'. Is there a standard, and who watches this for the consumer? Profumo.it offers a variety of perfumes for men and women at reasonable prices. From what i can smell, they seem to be based on natural oils. Tauer started with an emphasis on natural essences. He is rather vague describing this aspect of his perfumes now, saying they are not only based on natural fragrances. I am mostly interested in what those ancient firms in Grasse use now, or if there are still colognes made on essences used 150 years ago?

    I just finished the Grasse / Paris chapters of the 'Perfect Scent' - and am completely disillusioned concerning the old fragrance pyramid. I think behind each petitgrain, orange flower, rose or sandalwood is some chemists formula nowadays. Maybe the houses still grant their concoctions one extra drop of natural jasmine for the image. The bulk, however may originate from some chemical plant in China controlled by Givaudan, IFF or another of the Big Five!
    Last edited by narcus; 2nd March 2008 at 07:03 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  20. #20

    Default Re:

    "Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?"


    Because they are not Creed, that's why .
    Are you not entertained??? Is this not why you are here??

  21. #21

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    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Quote Originally Posted by lunarpanic View Post
    Download record of Luca Turin's now defunct blog from here: http://lucaturin.typepad.com/; and see a bemusing/amusing/entertaining/enlightening debate on the topic. Some of the natural perfumers mentioned in this thread participated in the debate.
    I suspect, Luca Turin got (understandably) tired of the subject and it's proponents after a while. When that discussion didn't seem to come to an end he closed his blog altogether. The idea had originally been to discuss 'Duftnote' articles with his English speaking audience worldwide. It's amazing how much attention this blog got retroactively. I hardly lasted for more than six months .

    I had to pick other because I don't know which of the industrially made colognes / perfumes are still made with enough natural ingredients to call them 'natural'. Is there a standard, and who watches this for the consumer? Profumo.it offers a variety of perfumes for men and women at reasonable prices. From what i can smell, they seem to be based on natural oils. Tauer started with an emphasis on natural essences. He is rather vague describing this aspect of his perfumes now, saying they are not only based on natural fragrances. I am mostly interested in what those ancient firms in Grasse use now, or if there are still colognes made on essences used 150 years ago?
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    There isn't that much info out there about them, is there? My hunch is that they might tend to be of a more linear nature, have shorter longevity and projection.

    Our ability to isolate from nature and then to "wear" amazing scents, is what I find the most fascinating about fragrances.
    Last edited by Delmar; 27th May 2008 at 03:34 PM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromo33333 View Post
    If a rose essence smells like "pickles" it may just be the quality of the materials used - I don't know if its inherent in the absolutes and essential oils or if it is the oils and abolutes used. Making good perfumes - synthetically based or non synthetically based - it probably limited by the quality of materials used.

    I would love tog et a perfume book that detailed why the perfume companies started changing ingredients.
    to give a more serious answer than my last one, I'd say its because most of the smells we have come to associate with perfume are created with synthetic chemicals, iso super E, hediones, ketones, aldehydes, and of course things such as musk and ambergris must now due to legalities be made from synthetic components. Perfume simply wouldn't be the same without these key ingredients. I'd say perfumers started changing the ingredients as soon as synthetics were invented, they looked towards better things. Ancient perfumes probably smelled pretty bad (in comparison to today's). many of the old perfumes were also soliflores, I'd imagine most people would probably be shocked at how simple and dull old perfumes must have been since we all look to the past with rose coloured glasses :P The reason they are not talked about now is because they are simply not a viable product, its like trying to sell horse drawn carriages today - the market would be very very small !!

    edit: let me just add in here that I have made a pretty successfull knock off of JPG le male using only about 20 all natural substances. It does miss some of the chemical je ne sais quoi that makes le male what it is, so I suppose its not IMPOSSIBLE to make good all natural perfumes... I suppose I just don't see a point of it ?
    Last edited by smellyliquid; 2nd March 2008 at 08:46 AM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Interesting results so far. The appeal of them, to me, is their intrinsic connection to nature. I can't speak for everyone but perfume is an aesthetic choice for me, and it is somehow more rewarding in some kind of spiritual sense (ironic, since I'm agnostic) to know that what I'm wearing has essences of plants that were growing in Madagascar, Tunisia, Russia, India, etc. There is also the human element, as many of the plants/flowers have to be hand harvested. Perfume is romantic or at least should be evocative of romance, and there's nothing romantic, in my opinion, about the thought of 150 petroleum derived chemicals floating around in a jar of alcohol. Yes, in the end it all comes down to the smell, but to me it's the difference between getting a handwritten and typed letter. The words are the same, but the handwritten letter is undeniably more human, and more touching.
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  25. #25

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromo33333 View Post
    I had to pick "other" - I believe a fragrance has to smell good to begin with - and it does not matter to me if it is synthetic or natural.

    So I may have a few natural scents, and some with synthetic scent chemicals in it.
    I second that opinion. I love classic (=all natural) Eau de Cologne and I lean towards houses known for the use of a high percentage of top notch natural oils (Creed, Villoresi, Lutens), but I've never heard a convincing argument in favor of an all-natural perfume. In terms of health risks or allergies naturals are not principally safer, in terms of craft using naturals can be very limiting, though some may find it a challenge for its own sake, like painting with your feet. Many natural perfumers have backgrounds in aromatherapy, but it's feeling, not healing that's important to me when donning a fragrance. I use specific essential oils for the other purpose. Many "commercial" natural perfumes, the kind you can buy here in Germany at organic (food) stores are terribly composed - short lived and shrill, with little sophistication, often just a hodgepodge of essential oil smells. I've tried a number of Florascents - many are awful, some are nice, but their naturalness certainly does not give them an advantage.
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  26. #26

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Thanks for all of the interesting responses, guys.

    One thing I can definitely say that is a pro to the all natural frags I've worn is that they haven't ever bothered my sinuses or felt 'oppressive' in a way that some synthetic frags can. Of course to my nose, oppressive is more a quality of the manner in which the scent assaults the nostrils rather than the scent itself (e.g. The "texture" of Body Kouros being so thick and strong).

    A simple example is this - when heading to the gym, the dying basenotes of a synthetic frag can flare up with some heat and sweat on the treadmill and become absolutely nauseating, while I've never had a similar reaction with an all natural frag. Perhaps this is due to the therapeutic qualities of essential oils, perhaps it is just a placebo effect built upon expectations, or perhaps it's something else entirely, but at least for me it is very true.

    I wonder if a quality all natural frag came out at a reasonable price, say similarly priced in comparison to designer frags (although perhaps for a smaller quantity, i.e. 50ml of the all natuarl for the average 100ml designer price) if it wouldn't gain more popularity, or at least more people willing to give it a chance.
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  27. #27

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    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    No longeveity. No point in talking. I've tried many and finally gave up." profumo.it" does some excellent smelling creations with real civet, real castoreum, and real ambergris. If it only lasts 5 minutes, it's simply not worth paying for.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    QUOTE=thebeck;1225360]No longevity. No point in talking. I've tried many and finally gave up." profumo.it" does some excellent smelling creations with real civet, real castoreum, and real ambergris. If it only lasts 5 minutes, it's simply not worth paying for.[/QUOTE]
    5 minutes!!! thebeck, fortunately not everybody smells like you do!
    Luca Turin, Tania Sanchez, Helg of the perfumeshrine and others revewed several of my natural (100% natural I guarantee) perfumes and they did not mention such a thing. Well, I should know myself anyway if this was the case, is it that you have a skin that absorbs perfumes at an unusual speed? Naturals are more readily absorbed by the skin. In fact do not think that a perfume lasts on your skin as long as it is not evaporated. It lasts only as long as it has not penetrated your skin and passed into your blood circulation.
    This is why one should care very much about what aromatics one puts on one's body.
    Civet and Castoreum do not last more on the skin than Patchouli or Ylang Ylang, their being fixative ingredients is just a myth cultivated by perfumers. They write and talk about perfumes in the same way as alchemists do about their art, the information they give are meant to confuse the profane end enlighten only the initiated.
    Guy Robert himself ridiculed the belief in fixative ingredients.
    The heavy and stable molecules of synthesis that the body cannot process except with difficulty are what make you perceive a perfume as having a long lasting quality, but there is not much quality in chemistry products and it is a quality that may be harmful to your health, as these molecules accumulate in the natural filters of the body.
    We all know from our perfumistas culture that at the origin, perfumes were for gloves and handkerchief. Never thought why? Because natural perfumes go very fast through our skin into your blood, but they last for days on cloth, leather and hair.
    5 minutes is really exaggerated, unless your skin has an exaggerated thirst for my perfumes made with natural aromatics.
    AbdesSalaam Attar
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    Last edited by Profumo; 26th May 2008 at 08:19 PM.

  29. #29

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    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Profumo View Post
    QUOTE=thebeck;1225360]No longevity. No point in talking. I've tried many and finally gave up." profumo.it" does some excellent smelling creations with real civet, real castoreum, and real ambergris. If it only lasts 5 minutes, it's simply not worth paying for.
    5 minutes!!! thebeck, fortunately not everybody smells like you do!
    Luca Turin, Tania Sanchez, Helg of the perfumeshrine and others revewed several of my natural (100% natural I guarantee) perfumes and they did not mention such a thing. Well, I should know myself anyway if this was the case, is it that you have a skin that absorbs perfumes at an unusual speed? Naturals are more readily absorbed by the skin. In fact do not think that a perfume lasts on your skin as long as it is not evaporated. It lasts only as long as it has not penetrated your skin and passed into your blood circulation.
    This is why one should care very much about what aromatics one puts on one's body.
    Civet and Castoreum do not last more on the skin than Patchouli or Ylang Ylang, their being fixative ingredients is just a myth cultivated by perfumers. They write and talk about perfumes in the same way as alchemists do about their art, the information they give are meant to confuse the profane end enlighten only the initiated.
    Guy Robert himself ridiculed the belief in fixative ingredients.
    The heavy and stable molecules of synthesis that the body cannot process except with difficulty are what make you perceive a perfume as having a long lasting quality, but there is not much quality in chemistry products and it is a quality that may be harmful to your health, as these molecules accumulate in the natural filters of the body.
    We all know from our perfumistas culture that at the origin, perfumes were for gloves and handkerchief. Never thought why? Because natural perfumes go very fast through our skin into your blood, but they last for days on cloth, leather and hair.
    5 minutes is really exaggerated, unless your skin has an exaggerated thirst for my perfumes made with natural aromatics.
    AbdesSalaam Attar
    Composer Perfumer[/QUOTE]

    Like I said, you create some very nice frags and have alot of respect for you. I agree with Turin on the quality of your work. I don't see in "Perfumes The Guide" too much mention of longevity on any frags. LT and TS just seem to like to talk about what they smell. I have purchased samples from you. Yes, I live in an extremely dry climate with almost zero humidity and my skin absorbs natural perfumes and eats them for breakfast, leaving nothing behind for me to smell. I'm even very limited to in my choices of non-natural perfumes too. Only heavy duty power frags last on me. Keep up the good work because not everyone lives in the desert and has a sponge for skin. I was at a perfume shop in Seattle and the owner sprayed a scent on me and then went to smell my wrist where she sprayed and her quote "your skin just ate it up, let's try something else".

  30. #30

    Default Re: Why aren't all natural perfumes talked about more?

    Thanks for the reply, thebeck, I have met sometimes people whose skin drank perfumes as yours does.
    This may be the case of many basenoters to a certain extend, and this may account for their difference of opinion about longevity of a perfume.
    Linda of the apprentice perfumers told me once "why are your perfumes so long lasting if they are 100% natural?, natural perfumes are supposed to last very little".
    Longevity is not easy to achieve in a perfume, a coherent longevity I mean, when the perfume lasts without loosing it's parts along the way like a car that falls to pieces while running. It is just like one in a thousand melodies, only one sticks in our ear and the people go on whistling it all day. Longevity does not come from a magic fixative ingredient, but from a lucky blending of the right ingredients. Longevity in a perfume comes from a synergy, not from a sum
    I can also deduce that you are not a hairy person, otherwise the perfumes would fix on the hairs of your arms or chest and would last very long, Unless you spray the perfumes on the neck. It is very rare that the necks are hairy. Very troublesome as well, I have seen some Indians who had to shave their beard all the way down to the chest.
    You should spray perfumes as it was done at the beginning of perfumery, on shawls and handkerchiefs, on your shirt and hair. You would surely resolve the problem of longevity of may perfumes in that way.

    AbdusSalaam Attar
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