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  1. #31

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    My take and thought is Ambre is one of those frags that you'd wear in order to get noticed. There is a "slightly sickening" note in the scent but I loved it when I got a sample. Good stuff. Maybe too good!

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    AS is going to be my SotD tomorrow, fortunately I can't over-apply because i've got a wax sample thats half used!

  3. #33

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    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    More and more people nowadays want to control everything, and I can't stand people like that, hence the slightly prick-ish response.


    I also hate that. Apart from the situations where my health and/or safety is threatened, I never complain or do anything to show disapproval. I love when my neighbours make a lot of noise, because this means that they will not complain if I make a lot of noise someday. I am even tolerant with smokers. As long as I am in an open environment, I don't mind people smoking near me. I allow friends to smoke in my home, and I don't think I'll catch cancer because of these rare occasions. I always try to be tolerant.
    Last edited by LuciusVorenus; 22nd March 2008 at 01:17 PM.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    I think, in this particular scenario, the onus was really on you Lucius to apologize if you were aware and certain that it was your fragrance causing the discomfort. We have to remember everyone has different sensitivies, and just as some sents can give us headaches or nausea, and we seemingly can't know which until we wear them, how will we know what someone else is actually experiencing when subjected to our scent? If it was giving him a headache or highly annoying him and distracting him from the show, it's not rude or out of line in any way for him to fan himself to try and get fresh air (although I'm not sure that it would help much.)
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  5. #35

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    I would have just laughed at the dramatic hand-waving and face gestures.
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  6. #36

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Lucius, I have to tell you, I think a classical music concert is a GREAT place to try out a fragrance... I was thinking of posting this as a separate thread months ago. I've noticed, though, that in that scenario, you are basically stewing in your own sillage, so I have learned (from a similar experience with Ambre Narguile), to chill out on the application when going to classical concerts... And especially with Ambre Sultan... it can, different than the pointedness of something like Kouros' "too much", but too much, but in that rounded, suffocating way...

    p.s. Concerts are a great place to smell OTHER people's fragrances, too!... i feel like the lobbies and concert hall itself smell amazingly of perfume and that special glossy paper from programs (i know, sounds silly, but I've grown up with that smell, i play in an orchestra)
    Last edited by nthny; 22nd March 2008 at 01:49 PM.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    AS is a sillage monster and should not be worn (or only applied in microscopic doses) in situations where you will be sitting close to other people and they have no chance of escaping, like a concert. That's simply a question of good manners.
    I agree with you 100%.Wearing AS to Boston Symphony Hall is about as appropriate as burning a scented candle at the dinner table.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Quote Originally Posted by LuciusVorenus View Post
    More and more people nowadays want to control everything, and I can't stand people like that, hence the slightly prick-ish response.


    I also hate that. Apart from the situations where my health and/or safety is threatened, I never complain or do anything to show disapproval. I love when my neighbours make a lot of noise, because this means that they will not complain if I make a lot of noise someday. I am even tolerant with smokers. As long as I am in an open environment, I don't mind people smoking near me. I allow friends to smoke in my home, and I don't think I'll catch cancer because of these rare occasions. I always try to be tolerant.
    Yes, but you can't really expect everyone else to feel the same way, can you? I enjoy a quiet home and expect quiet and considerate neighbors. We're not in our 20s (or 30s, mostly) and don't look for reasons in our neighbor's behaviors to throw a kegger. I collect and smoke fine cigars. However, I don't do so in the house. I smoke outdoors, in the privacy of my garden or with friends, mostly in their gardens or decks. Never in public, where I know it would annoy the heck out of anyone in sight even more than a cigarette. (And, speaking of which, I loathe cigarettes and, if someone lights up near me, I move away).

    The bottom line, as others have responded, is that courtesy is important. It is a cornerstone of civilization. We ALL make mistakes and I have made mine. But, at a classic concert, say, you wouldn't show up in a Tiki shirt, ripped shorts, and flip flops. Likewise, in a closed space, wearing a fragrance discretely makes more sense.

    As someone else posted, AS is potent. I know, I wear it a lot and love it (also wear CM, MKK, Chene). We were at a dinner party the other night, I knew the space, big table, informal, and I wore enough that it was a comfortable warmth throughout the night. But, at the opera? Next to another person for 3+ hours? I would wear a close-to-the-skin scent or just a lot less of it.

    Just basic courtesy.

    PS, cigars and scents are weird. Cigars actually have very fine and interesting scents and the great ones taste great. The aftermath is appalling, though. Wearing a fine scent and smoking at the same time is just stupidity!

  9. #39

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    I don't know why there's all this fuss. It's really just a matter of etiquette. If you're gonna be in close quarters sitting next to people in an enclosed place, then you just shouldn't put too much of a strong fragrance on right before you sit down. There's not much else to say, other than put less of it on and earlier so that it's not overpowering. Why else do we wear fragrances other than to enjoy them and have other people enjoy them too?

  10. #40

    Vivek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Quote Originally Posted by highdudgeon View Post
    PS, cigars and scents are weird. Cigars actually have very fine and interesting scents and the great ones taste great. The aftermath is appalling, though. Wearing a fine scent and smoking at the same time is just stupidity!
    Ah, I love the smell of Cigars, when I was younger (like one year ago) I was stupid enough to think it was 'cool' to smoke, I came to my senses within four months, when my, now, girlfriend helped me a lot Me and my friends invested in a nice cigar, and it was one of the greatest things i'd smoked, now that I look back at it, it makes me laugh, because when one of my friends was smoking on it, he coughed and dampened the end where you smoke from :P After getting through about 3/4 of it, we broke it up into the individual tobacco sheets and set fire to those in the park, the smell was fantastic, probably one of my best olfactory memories.

  11. #41

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    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    That was way too much, and if I were the one sitting next to you my behaviour would have been the same. If I know I will be in close quarters--particularly in which people's attention is better directed elsewhere--I only apply a fragrance under my shirt, if at all.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Even as a fragrance lover I find it distracting - and sometimes downright nauseating - to sit next to someone who's overfragged in a confined (and typically airless) place like a theater or concert hall, where I want to be able to concentrate on the performance. There's also the matter of respecting the Social Contract. Imagine if every member of the audience at Symphony Hall had quadra-spritzed a strong frag in the restroom before taking his or her seat, as you had - there'd have been a mass asphyxiation. Beautiful as Symphony Hall is, I wouldn't want to spend my last minutes on earth in its miserably hard seats.

    As others have recommended, understatement is a better option in such situations. And I'd suggest giving any new frag a few wearings to gauge its strength and sillage before that kind of public outing, as it's too easy too overapply an unfamiliar scent.

    (IMHO, four sprays of almost any Lutens is going to turn you into a radioactive cloud, leaving wilted flowers and terrified small animals in your wake.)
    Last edited by Morgan Creek; 22nd March 2008 at 07:40 PM.
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  13. #43

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Quote Originally Posted by LuciusVorenus View Post
    More and more people nowadays want to control everything, and I can't stand people like that, hence the slightly prick-ish response.


    I also hate that. Apart from the situations where my health and/or safety is threatened, I never complain or do anything to show disapproval. I love when my neighbours make a lot of noise, because this means that they will not complain if I make a lot of noise someday. I am even tolerant with smokers. As long as I am in an open environment, I don't mind people smoking near me. I allow friends to smoke in my home, and I don't think I'll catch cancer because of these rare occasions. I always try to be tolerant.
    The thing is, it's not about controlling things, or not being tolerant, it's about what really makes you sick or not. The reason I don't let people smoke at my place isn't because I'm offended that they smoke and want to control them, it's because it makes me sick and the smell stays in my clothes and in the house for days afterwards. Otherwise I wouldn't care.

    I actually got a dose of perfume sick today, but it wasn't someone else, it was me! i wasn't wearing too much perfume, but I was wearing a turtle neck that I had worn the other day while wearing SL Cedre. I love SL Cedre, but the smell it leaves after a day for some reason makes me sick. Same thing with Jardin en Mediteranee. And I was at a friend's wedding rehearsal today, and people were saying "hmm, you smell nice" and meanwhile I was making myself ill, and wished I could go shirtless!
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  14. #44

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR View Post
    The thing is, it's not about controlling things, or not being tolerant, it's about what really makes you sick or not. The reason I don't let people smoke at my place isn't because I'm offended that they smoke and want to control them, it's because it makes me sick and the smell stays in my clothes and in the house for days afterwards. Otherwise I wouldn't care.
    I agree. I can't believe some of you guys who act like it was intolerance on the part of the bystander. You guys know that if this thread was written from the point of the view of a guy who went to the theater but couldn't breathe because his neighbor was wearing a fatal dose of Old Spice, your answers might be different.

    Two sprays of Ambre Sultan to the chest is playing with fire... but also a SPRAY BEHIND EACH EAR?!?!? I can't imagine what he was thinking. I mean, he might as well have just pulled the bottle of Ambre Sultan out and used it as a roomspray or sprayed it on his neighbors. I have a bottle of Ambre Sultan, and it can be incredibly nauseating in confined spaces.

    I'm detecting this snobby vibe, that seems to suggest that because his neighbors couldn't "appreciate" a quality fragrance such as a Serge Lutens, that it's just their brutish noses that are the culprits. That's ridiculous. Lucious knows he screwed up, and he seems sorry about it. On occasion, If I detect my coworkers are irritated by my SOTD, I'll ask them if it's too strong-- because the air belongs to everyone. I get sick just like anyone else when forced to smell something that I don't want to smell.

    Common sense and common courtesy, people.

  15. #45

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Yes, just one on the chest under the clothes next time and no problem .

    I have made similar mistakes -
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  16. #46

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Quote Originally Posted by Indie_Guy View Post
    Lucious knows he screwed up, and he seems sorry about it.

    I agree. I can't believe some of you guys who act like it was intolerance on the part of the bystander.

    I'm detecting this snobby vibe, that seems to suggest that because his neighbors couldn't "appreciate" a quality fragrance such as a Serge Lutens, that it's just their brutish noses that are the culprits.
    Agree. We have all recognized and understood Lucius' poor judgement in applying an indecent amount of fragrance moments before taking his seat.

    If you re-read my posts you will see I took exception to the theatrics of the bystander. My point was if he does not have the bollocks to speak up and voice his distaste, or make efforts to remove himself from the situation, then he can only blame himself. Hand-flailing and face-pulling is not an adult means to communicate ones displeasure.

    And as to the implied "snobbery" on my part being because it was a "quality" Lutens scent - thats utter rubbish, as I have never had the pleasure to smell a single scent from the Lutens portfolio. Hardly a Lutens snob now am I?

    Back in yer box, tiger!
    Last edited by Sorcery of Scent; 22nd March 2008 at 09:12 PM.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Quote Originally Posted by LuciusVorenus View Post
    I forgot to tell you guys that I sprayed the Sultan at the theater, in the bathroom, just before going to my seat. So the fragrance was very fresh and potent.


    .
    A-ha! ....so that was you! I was there (I LOVE Bach's passions) and I thought I was going crazy when I smelled AS in the bathroom! As much as I love AS I think that that’s just too much. I think this is one of those frags that you should put on about half an hour before heading out the door. I find that the dry down is much more pleasant than the initial experience which can come on a bit too strong. What I really like about this fragrance is its subtlety that’s why I only use a little at a time.....I like it to whisper. I love it when my friends are kissing me hello/goodbye and say "umm, you smell great!" That’s the beauty of the Sultan.....sharing it with those with whom you are closest. People are wicked uptight in Boston anyway, esp. those that patronize the BSO....I wouldn't worry about it much.
    Last edited by josechan1; 23rd March 2008 at 01:06 AM.

  18. #48
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    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Wow! Two times on your chest and one time behind each ear!

    I have been experimenting with Ambre Sultan off and on for a couple years, and I have discovered that a very small amount of this fragrance is all that I need. In fact, I think I should decant some Ambre Sultan into a roll-on, and use that to apply this fragrance. A roll-on would allow me to judiciously apply a very small amount. For me, less is definitely more with Ambre Sultan.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Wear AS anytime you want, it is your right. Running into someone sensitive to it has a moderate probability. However, let me through some caution your way;

    1. One spray will do ya on this stuff.

    2. It is not that guys fault for being sensitive to it. Some people has a genetic/allergic predisposition to odorants so be respectful towards others.

    Personally, I cannot wear AS myself. It induces headache. It is too sharp and the slightest bit of body heat puts that napalm into full bloom. AS is a tricky fragrance to wear for most affectionate fragrance wearers. Some fragrances will literally smother you and I feel AS is one of them.

  20. #50

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post
    If you re-read my posts you will see I took exception to the theatrics of the bystander. My point was if he does not have the bollocks to speak up and voice his distaste, or make efforts to remove himself from the situation, then he can only blame himself. Hand-flailing and face-pulling is not an adult means to communicate ones displeasure.

    And as to the implied "snobbery" on my part being because it was a "quality" Lutens scent - thats utter rubbish, as I have never had the pleasure to smell a single scent from the Lutens portfolio. Hardly a Lutens snob now am I?

    Back in yer box, tiger!

    Theatrics of the bystander? It was in a THEATER, why not be theatrical!?!

    I don't know that I would have had "the bollocks" to inform someone that they're wearing so much cologne that it's making me sick. Some people don't take kindly to being told that they're causing offense. A few years ago I had a problem with a neighbor who would keep his little dog chained outside all day and it would bark non-stop. I was working nights, and as a result I could not get any sleep. Finally after it went on for a couple of weeks, I decided to talk to this neighbor (whom I had never met before). I put on nice clothes and rehearsed the most non-threatening, passive way to voice my complaint about his dog. I walked up to his door and rang his doorbell. Fast forward about 60 seconds, he was threatening to kick my ass! I was as nice as can be and he was telling me to get off his property or he was going to hit me. I ended up calling the police and let them deal with him.

    If I were confronted by someone with lethal sillage, I probably would just say "Wow. Someone's wearing WAY too much cologne" and see if that didn't get a reaction. We've all made errors in application before, but reading some of the posts here over the years, I don't think some people even try to be careful. Either that or they have a completely different and somewhat evil purpose for wearing fragrances in the first place.

    Dimitri, with regards to the comment about snobbery/Lutens, that wasn't directed at you personally. That was directed at no one in particular, but rather those who've expressed opinions such as "if people dont like my (ridiculously overapplied) Lutens/Creed/Armani/whatever, then they're just philistines who lack taste. I've seen far too many posts with this attitude that wearing a "masterpiece" scent gives the wearer special rights to be narcissistic in his or her overapplication. Driving a Rolls-Royce doesn't give one the right to run over bystanders. And if you've never smelled a single Lutens-- believe me, two sprays of Ambre Sultan to the chest and one behind each ear would give you or anybody a splitting headache. A good scent doesn't become a great scent by pumping up the volume.

    So there.

  21. #51

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    I hear ya Indie_Guy. Your use of the word "brutish" when describing the noses of the "snobs" put up a red flag for me as it was the term I used a few posts back to describe the intolerance some people have towards other peoples personal pleasures. I saw this as a passive-aggressive response to what I had written.
    If that isnt the case, then I have no beef. Matter has been dealt with, as far as Im concerned.

  22. #52

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post
    I hear ya Indie_Guy. Your use of the word "brutish" when describing the noses of the "snobs" put up a red flag for me as it was the term I used a few posts back to describe the intolerance some people have towards other peoples personal pleasures. I saw this as a passive-aggressive response to what I had written.
    If that isnt the case, then I have no beef. Matter has been dealt with, as far as Im concerned.
    lol. No, I wasn't mocking you or anything with the word "brutish". I just picked that word out of the blue and it was possibly a case of cryptomnesia at seeing that word in a previous post. I didn't mean anything insidious by it.

    How can it be that you haven't gotten around to smelling any of the Lutens? I was kind of surprised to hear you say that you've never tried any of them. Most of them aren't really my cup of tea, but some of them are pretty good. There are a lot that I haven't tried, but they sound interesting. Ambre Sultan is something you really should try.

  23. #53

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    I am glad you guys are friends again! I was about to start sweating. Dimitri and Indie Guy and both good guys alike and have never been known to cause trouble to anyone. Besides, both of you offer good advice and opinions. Now, lets back to smelling good!

  24. #54

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    I have wanted to try the Lutens for ages as they're often spoken about here.
    Unfortunately I live on an island in central Denmark, and even doubt that Lutens has a stockist in the capital, Copenhagen. But bit by bit I am purchasing samples from different houses online and having them sent to me. Thus my recent interest in Montale, Trumper and Ormonde Jayne. (I know, always a few months after the rest of you, it would appear)!
    I did come across some Lutens whilst on a trip in Austria, but I had been sniffing like a mad man all day and couldn't bring myself to hold another bottle to my nose. Olfactory fatigue had won me over.

    Im sure I will have another chance soon... summer holidays are coming up!

  25. #55

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Dimitri, I can't promise your experience will be like mine but, from my experience, encens et lavende is the only SL I can wear. It is part of the non-export line. I went through great lengths to procure my bell jar and I have been nursing it since. It is the purest lavender and incense I have ever smelled. It has lavender, clary sage, and incense as the notes listed. It might not be your thing but I highly recommend you sample it.

  26. #56

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Dimitri, it sucks that you have limited access to Lutens. Here in America, it's frustrating that we don't get anything from the Exclusives range-- which seems to have most of the good stuff. Sure, once a year, he'll throw us a bone and temporarily put one of the exlusives into the Export range, but it's not good enough.

    I still haven't smelled Fumerie Turque and it irks me. It sounds like something I'd love, but I'm screwed. Encens et Lavande is awesome, but also inaccessible. Fortunately a generous Basenoter sent me a decent sized decant of it. Last year I decided to try to make my own DIY take on Encens et Lavande. It turned out pretty well-- while not identical, and one of my coworkers even wears it-- and told me his wife compliments him on it. Cuir Mauresque is another one that sounds great-- can't even get a sniff. That bites.

    From the export range, I do like Arabie. Gris Clair is OK, but I prefer Encens et Lavande. Daim Blonde is kind of nice, but smells a bit weird in places-- I get this turkey gravy/stuffing note out of it. Chypre Rouge I initially hated, but one day I had an inexplicable craving for it, and had to revisit my sample. I kind of like it now. Ambre Sultan was a blind buy-- it wasn't quite what I was hoping it would be. Sweeter than what I normally like, and maybe a bit feminine. i admit I was intrigued by reviews that said it smelled like a woman's genitals. Didn't find that to be the case at all. Darn.

  27. #57

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Ah, I love the smell of Cigars, when I was younger (like one year ago) I was stupid enough to think it was 'cool' to smoke, I came to my senses within four months, when my, now, girlfriend helped me a lot Me and my friends invested in a nice cigar, and it was one of the greatest things i'd smoked, now that I look back at it, it makes me laugh, because when one of my friends was smoking on it, he coughed and dampened the end where you smoke from :P After getting through about 3/4 of it, we broke it up into the individual tobacco sheets and set fire to those in the park, the smell was fantastic, probably one of my best olfactory memories.
    That's an interesting experience! Most cigars, maybe 95%, are truly mediocre and smell bad from beginning to end. Some, at the top end -- Cohiba Esplendidos -- are phenomenal but you pay something like US$30 for a smoke (I live in Italy and smoke Cubans almost exclusively). But you're play with fire with any cigar. Zino Davidoff said that "a gentleman only smokes half of his cigar." I think this is true. I smoke half to 2/3s, max. More than that, and it starts burning hot, the smell can get acrid, etc. I get nauseous around people who insist on smoking 3/4 or more.

    Same goes for fragrance. A little goes a long way. I find Lutens scents marvelous but strong. CdG Incense...very strong to wear much in public. I got a tester of 888 though and my wife LOVES it...but it is closer to the skin and I can wear more. Everything in balance.

    Speaking of which, one reason I like leather scents (and know they are not for everyone) is that they have a lot in common with the aftertaste of a fine cigar. It's a scent that just makes me feel happy. Buy, I like Lutens a LOT more than REL which, to my nose, is over the top.

  28. #58

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Ambre Sultan can be a little off putting when applied strongly. The unrelenting amber mixed with sandalwood, patchouli and eastern spice is a potent combination that is heavy wearing for sure. Best to keep it close to the skin with a light application. I have never able to wear this one comfortably - I tried! It does smell addictive especially in light doses.

  29. #59

    Default Re: Bad Experience with The Sultan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post
    I have wanted to try the Lutens for ages as they're often spoken about here.
    Unfortunately I live on an island in central Denmark, and even doubt that Lutens has a stockist in the capital, Copenhagen. But bit by bit I am purchasing samples from different houses online and having them sent to me. Thus my recent interest in Montale, Trumper and Ormonde Jayne. (I know, always a few months after the rest of you, it would appear)!
    I did come across some Lutens whilst on a trip in Austria, but I had been sniffing like a mad man all day and couldn't bring myself to hold another bottle to my nose. Olfactory fatigue had won me over.

    Im sure I will have another chance soon... summer holidays are coming up!
    It's fairly isolated over here in Norway as well - at least fragrance-wise. My only consolation is that they have sent wonderful packaged straight from Paris (of the exclusives). They've marked the packages: "Echantillon Commercial - sans valeur commerciale" and I haven't had to pay extra tax. All you have to do is call them or write them at their "contact us" email and they'll send you free wax samples. For the non exclusives, I've used www.theperfumeshoppe.com in Canada. My AS came from there.

    While I'm on AS - it really goes through several stages in its development on my skin. There is a stage early on when it really does border on the nauseating - very important to apply lightly. (Tom Ford's Amber Absolute goes through this stage as well on my skin) But I noticed the NEXT DAY there was a beautiful - nothing-like-it scent - still there! Now THAT's what I'd like to smell like! So this is a fragrance that one should apply (lightly) well in advance of going out of the house. I'd give it at least an hour.

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