Cool Water pwned GIT!? Turin Fails! GIT>Cool Water.
From the upcoming Perfumes : The Guide (authored by Turin and Sanchez), the top ten rated men's and women's fragrances are as follows:
•Angel (Thierry Mugler) – fruity patchouli
•Apres l'Ondée (Guerlain) – heavenly heliotrope
•Black (Bulgari) – hot rubber
•Bois de Violette (Serge Lutens) – woody oriental
•L'Heure Bleue (Guerlain) –
•Joy parfum (Patou) – symphonic floral
•No. 5 parfum (Chanel) – powdery floral
•Mitsouko (Guerlain) – reference chypre
•Rive Gauche (Yves Saint Laurent) – reference rose
•Shalimar (Guerlain) – reference oriental
•Azzaro pour Homme (Azzaro) – anisic lavender
•Beyond Paradise Men (Estée Lauder) – green woody
•Cool Water (Davidoff) – aromatic fougere
•Derby (Guerlain) – smoky wood
•Eau de Guerlain (Guerlain) – citrus verbena
•Habit Rouge (Guerlain) – sweet dust
•New York (Parfums de Nicolai) – orange amber
•Ormonde Men (Ormonde Jane) – green woody
•Pour Monsieur (Chanel) – masculine chypre
•Timbuktu (L'Artisan Parfumeur) – woody smoky
Those familiar with Turins' blog and writing wouldn't be suprised by these lists. And yes, contrary to Turin's reviews in his previous guide, Cool Water > GIT in this list. GIT got pwned.
Cool Water pwned GIT!? Turin Fails! GIT>Cool Water.
I am looking forward to the book.
Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 1st April 2008 at 05:23 AM.
Another book brimming with subjective insights.
Aside from global sales figures (á la Mugler's Angel and Gaultier's Le Male), on what basis do Turin and Sanchez select their top 10? Balance? Quality of ingredients? Complexity? Perhaps simplicity? I'm always interested in what a perfumer has to say, but this is simply a revenue-gathering exercise.
Smells are subjective. Period.
Last edited by Sorcery of Scent; 27th March 2008 at 06:34 AM.
Evidently, I need to try Beyond Paradise Men.
I have run across its name one too many times recently - and now I am curious.
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could to where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, ...... I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost
Didn't Turin have something to do with Beyond Paradise Men?
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Ungaro I 75ml
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TwoRoads: "Evidently, I need to try Beyond Paradise Men.
I have run across its name one too many times recently - and now I am curious."
Ha ha! My exact thought!
Even the women's version gets high praises...something to do with a first or revolutionary, etc. etc.
At least I've smelled that one.
They might as well have had a monkey throw darts at a list with perfumes. Whatever their criteria may be, they are lightyears from mine. In fact, I find just about every second list posted on BN more convincing. Hopelessly French bias (not one Italian fragrance!) and the Anglo-American choices are ridiculous (well, he's always had this weird obsession with Beyond Paradise, one of the most mundane scents around)
Well, anyway, the only reason I am getting the book is because I enjoy his lively descriptions of perfumes, not because I need someone to tell me what's good. And I'm trusting this top ten is for PR purposes, not to be taken too seriously (i.e. his top ten change daily, just as mine )
I imagine Mr. Turin sampling No. 88, Eau d'Hermes, Beyond Paradise and Cool Water. After intense sniffing, careful analyzing and two or three full wears of each fragrance, he chooses the latter two. Quite amazing. Maybe he is anosmic to... ehm... beauty?
I love his words but I sure as hell don't expect to agree with every one of his reviews, lists, or otherwise. Not by a longshot. I do 180's with the perceptions of the best reviewers on this site all the time. I've seen bits of the book and on top of the approximately 1200 + reviews, it also contains a plethora of fascinating info not found anywhere else. There's an in depth general fragrance discussion that is said to be one of the best ever written. One thing's for sure, Turin's been around. He's larger than life and has a colossal amount of knowledge about perfumes and the fragrance industry that few if any can match. Fortunately, he's able to transmit that information in a way that few can. He's well respected by not only his peers, but by the perfumers themselves. I liked the last two books about him/by him, but this is a totally different animal that holds all kinds of surprises.
Last edited by pluran; 3rd April 2008 at 02:16 AM. Reason: I
I think their criteria are mainly whether a fragrance was special and renewing at the time (and of course beautiful in a way). I don't have a crush on Cool Water nor GIT myself, but I suppose it is very good at what it does. Really looking forward to this guide!
"Perfume is the dream that carries me."
There is always the sky to look at
I think they missed some fragrances...maybe their nose didn´t smells a lot like we the basenoters :-)
Cool Water on the best masculines list? Is "best masculine" the same as the "most popular?" I look forward to reading the book to find out why Cool Water made the list.
The Carons started going down hill in the early nineties and that decline has continued. They're still good, but what you smell in the urn extraits isn't nearly what it used to be.
Last edited by pluran; 27th March 2008 at 10:51 AM.
pluran, that was an excellent answer.
I also appreciate his views alot, and my remark was not meant to be taken seriously. I tend to agree with him in general, and it's absolutely certain that he has more sophisticated nose than I do. So no, he is not anosmic to beauty. That was kind of a bad joke to begin with .
Anyway, I still stand by my original post. It's hard for me to believe that he actually thinks that the fragrances in his list that I mentioned are superior blends to to the examples I gave. Making these lists is kind of problematic, and it seems to me that he gave more emphasis on the originality of a fragrance time it was released, than I would in my lists. Other than obvious reason of personal preference, that might have a part to play in explaining these differences in opinions.
Last edited by Johnny_Ludlow; 27th March 2008 at 11:12 AM.
a snippet from LT's older blog.
"A properly romantic perfume should incite to adventure. Wait for autumn to come, remember Radiguet's "Le
Diable au Corps" and pay a visit to Serge Lutens' enchanted shop in the Jardins du Palais Royal. Once there, boldly demand Bois de Violette. This miraculous fragrance, a love story in a bottle, is a variation on Shiseido's Féminité Du Bois and restores the synthetic violet of methyl ionone to its rightful place as the most poetic molecule ever made."
Last edited by fredricktoo; 27th March 2008 at 11:43 AM.
I'm in the "like cool water better than git camp" and have been for many years. Cool water is brilliant in composition, if not in ingredient quality (on which criterion GIT would definitely win). Thing is, I just don't like the violet note in GIT (apart from very occasionally).
Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it is bad. Think of Habit Rouge (a sixties classic, very popular, still sells) that could well be how cool water will be regarded in about 10 years.
Eau de Guerlain is a masculine scent?
It's been going cheap for years at a local chemist chain down here, but usually it's in the women's section. Perfumeworld have it as unisex, and I couldn't find it at OsMoz.
Anyhow, seems a controversial choice.
Thanks for posting this zztopp - I must agree with the_good_life, I think this list is most likely for PR purposes and neither Turin nor Sanchez really put a lot of weight on 'Top Ten' lists.
I am excited about reading the book also - most likely there will be a significant portion of fragrance reviews on fragrances that we rarely talk about, here on Basenotes.
EDIT: Oh - and I just realized Basenotes gets mentioned in the 2nd paragraph of the news article. How nice - wonder if Grant saw this!?
Last edited by mikeperez23; 27th March 2008 at 02:49 PM.
"Reincarnation doesn't help you if in your next reincarnation you still don't know who you are"
-- Eckhart Tolle
I'm a little puzzled by the tone of the responses here. Criticism is, and has always been, a subjective response to a particular art form, be it literature, drama, art, film, or even fashion. Ideally one wants to read a critic who has a substantive knowledge of the history of his or her area as well as a thorough understanding of its forms, and who can appreciate innovation within a context of classicism. Criticism is, in short, informed engagement - with both art and the critic's audience. The best critics will always lead us to either discovery or to renewed appreciation, and will impart enough of their own knowledge to give us a stronger foundation on which to make their own judgments. Perfume is an interesting case in that there really is no established critical tradition, or at least there hadn't been one until Turin wrote the first guide, and until the net and sites like Basenotes made the development of one possible.
"I don't agree with X" or "Who is X to be telling me what smells good?" miss the point, as to expect a critic's judgments to always match one's own is a pretty hopeless exercise.
"Oh, my Lolita, I have only words to play with!"
- Vladimir Nabokov, Lolita
I don't see what all the fuss is about. The female list is pretty conservative and uncontroversial. The male list is a balance of classics with a few surprises (Cool Water and Beyond Paradise).
Top 10 lists, whether they be from a famous perfume writer or the newest BNer, are just that - a subjective snapshot in time of what that person likes at that moment, based on whatever criteria they think are important (classicism, uniqueness, impact on the art...)
While the list doesn't match up with my top 10, there's a fair few in there which I regard very highly (Azzaro, Habit Rouge, Chanel PM, Derby and Cool Water).
It's just like bagging Robert Parker in the wine world. A mix of jealousy, tall poppy syndrome and an unwillingness to acknowledge that critics are subjective - they are not asking us to take it as gospel.
Top 10 (not in order): Dunhill 1934, Dunhill Edition, Terre d'Hermes, Rive Gauche, Habit Rouge, Guerlain Vetiver, Knize Ten, Bois du Portugal, Vintage Tabarome, Green Irish Tweed
Summer Rotation: GIT, Aventus, Erolfa, Vetiver 1948, Guerlain Vetiver, Malle VE, Terre d'Hermes, Bvlgari PH, Bvlgari Acqua, Habit Rouge EDC and Sport, ADP Colonia Assoluta, Chanel PMC, Dunhill Edition, Eau Sauvage, TF Azure Lime
First of all, I am going to buy the book. I have pre-ordered it on Amazon., WOW!
He's a serious nose, a serious scientist/chemist, a serious critic. I think he realizes that he's unique in his field and has little competition on many fronts. Azzaro and Number 5 are in "Top 10", Wow!
Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 1st April 2008 at 04:44 AM. Reason: self-censored
And many thought I was being cinical to detest the purchase of this book some threads ago. I'm afraid Dimitri said what I predicted a while back, "A ride down the same ole road".
I couldn't agree more with the Female fragrances on the list.
I couldn't disagree more with the Male fragrances on the list, I disagree with all ten.
To each his own...
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