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  1. #1

    Default Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    From the upcoming Perfumes : The Guide (authored by Turin and Sanchez), the top ten rated men's and women's fragrances are as follows:

    Best Feminines
    •Angel (Thierry Mugler) – fruity patchouli
    •Apres l'Ondée (Guerlain) – heavenly heliotrope
    •Black (Bulgari) – hot rubber
    •Bois de Violette (Serge Lutens) – woody oriental
    •L'Heure Bleue (Guerlain) –
    •Joy parfum (Patou) – symphonic floral
    •No. 5 parfum (Chanel) – powdery floral
    •Mitsouko (Guerlain) – reference chypre
    •Rive Gauche (Yves Saint Laurent) – reference rose
    •Shalimar (Guerlain) – reference oriental

    Best Masculines
    •Azzaro pour Homme (Azzaro) – anisic lavender
    •Beyond Paradise Men (Estée Lauder) – green woody
    •Cool Water (Davidoff) – aromatic fougere
    •Derby (Guerlain) – smoky wood
    •Eau de Guerlain (Guerlain) – citrus verbena
    •Habit Rouge (Guerlain) – sweet dust
    •New York (Parfums de Nicolai) – orange amber
    •Ormonde Men (Ormonde Jane) – green woody
    •Pour Monsieur (Chanel) – masculine chypre
    •Timbuktu (L'Artisan Parfumeur) – woody smoky

    Those familiar with Turins' blog and writing wouldn't be suprised by these lists. And yes, contrary to Turin's reviews in his previous guide, Cool Water > GIT in this list. GIT got pwned.

    Source: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.355916b.html
    -

  2. #2

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Cool Water pwned GIT!? Turin Fails! GIT>Cool Water.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    I am looking forward to the book.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 1st April 2008 at 04:23 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Another book brimming with subjective insights.

    Aside from global sales figures (á la Mugler's Angel and Gaultier's Le Male), on what basis do Turin and Sanchez select their top 10? Balance? Quality of ingredients? Complexity? Perhaps simplicity? I'm always interested in what a perfumer has to say, but this is simply a revenue-gathering exercise.

    Smells are subjective. Period.
    Last edited by Sorcery of Scent; 27th March 2008 at 05:34 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Evidently, I need to try Beyond Paradise Men.

    I have run across its name one too many times recently - and now I am curious.
    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could to where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, ...... I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost

  6. #6

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Didn't Turin have something to do with Beyond Paradise Men?
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    TwoRoads: "Evidently, I need to try Beyond Paradise Men.
    I have run across its name one too many times recently - and now I am curious."

    Ha ha! My exact thought!
    Even the women's version gets high praises...something to do with a first or revolutionary, etc. etc.
    At least I've smelled that one.
    RM

  8. #8

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    They might as well have had a monkey throw darts at a list with perfumes. Whatever their criteria may be, they are lightyears from mine. In fact, I find just about every second list posted on BN more convincing. Hopelessly French bias (not one Italian fragrance!) and the Anglo-American choices are ridiculous (well, he's always had this weird obsession with Beyond Paradise, one of the most mundane scents around)
    Well, anyway, the only reason I am getting the book is because I enjoy his lively descriptions of perfumes, not because I need someone to tell me what's good. And I'm trusting this top ten is for PR purposes, not to be taken too seriously (i.e. his top ten change daily, just as mine )
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  9. #9

    Cool Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    I imagine Mr. Turin sampling No. 88, Eau d'Hermes, Beyond Paradise and Cool Water. After intense sniffing, careful analyzing and two or three full wears of each fragrance, he chooses the latter two. Quite amazing. Maybe he is anosmic to... ehm... beauty?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Ludlow View Post
    I imagine Mr. Turin sampling No. 88, Eau d'Hermes, Beyond Paradise and Cool Water. After intense sniffing, careful analyzing and two or three full wears of each fragrance, he chooses the latter two. Quite amazing. Maybe he is anosmic to... ehm... beauty?
    It's obvious that you've never read any of the hundreds of reviews he's written starting back in the 80's. His grasp on beauty is as solid as it comes. He's also reputed to have a nose on par with the best of them. I know all but one of the ten listed and they're all quality fragrances. Azzaro Pour Homme is still the best fougere ever made. Pour Monsieur, New York, Ormonde Man, Eau de Guerlain, Habit Rouge, Timbuktu and Derby are all exceptional. Cool Water is also a quality fragrance (much better than anything else by Davidoff) regardless of the groupthink that says otherwise. I'm sure we'll learn more about why he included it in the list. There are actually quite a few people who prefer it to Green Irish Tweed (me included), so it's not surprising that he would as well. Eau d'Hermes has always been among his highest rated scents. Recalling his 2005 blog and other sources, I remember him liking Rive Gauche Pour Homme, L'Homme de Coeur, Yatagan, Balenciaga Pour Homme, L'Air du Desert Marocain, The Third Man and a wide variety of others. You'll be surprised to find out what he likes and dislikes and why, and you'll learn a lot of other things in the process. Who knows why he/she made that particular top ten list anyway. There are nuances that can't be discerned without further investigation. His/her women's list could also hardly be better. Who knows what input Tania Sanchez had on any of this, but going by what she's written on other sites she definitely has good taste.

    I love his words but I sure as hell don't expect to agree with every one of his reviews, lists, or otherwise. Not by a longshot. I do 180's with the perceptions of the best reviewers on this site all the time. I've seen bits of the book and on top of the approximately 1200 + reviews, it also contains a plethora of fascinating info not found anywhere else. There's an in depth general fragrance discussion that is said to be one of the best ever written. One thing's for sure, Turin's been around. He's larger than life and has a colossal amount of knowledge about perfumes and the fragrance industry that few if any can match. Fortunately, he's able to transmit that information in a way that few can. He's well respected by not only his peers, but by the perfumers themselves. I liked the last two books about him/by him, but this is a totally different animal that holds all kinds of surprises.
    Last edited by pluran; 3rd April 2008 at 01:16 AM. Reason: I

  11. #11

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    I think their criteria are mainly whether a fragrance was special and renewing at the time (and of course beautiful in a way). I don't have a crush on Cool Water nor GIT myself, but I suppose it is very good at what it does. Really looking forward to this guide!
    "Perfume is the dream that carries me."

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    I think they missed some fragrances...maybe their nose didn´t smells a lot like we the basenoters :-)

  13. #13

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    His women's list could hardly be better. All brilliant.
    These are all good choices and Turin would be the first to say that "top ten lists" are just a parlor game. Still: Four Guerlains and not a single Caron ? Bois de Violette the best Lutens scent? Meh...
    My Wardrobe
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Cool Water on the best masculines list? Is "best masculine" the same as the "most popular?" I look forward to reading the book to find out why Cool Water made the list.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    These are all good choices and Turin would be the first to say that "top ten lists" are just a parlor game. Still: Four Guerlains and not a single Caron ? Bois de Violette the best Lutens scent? Meh...
    I felt the same way the first time I read how much he liked Bois de Violette, but I tried it again several times and found it to be one of the best blended fragrance I've ever smelled. It's not particularly sweet, wears beautifully with magical development and an extended drydown, putting out sublime sillage and has good longevity as expected. I have a friend who wears it and says it's the most evocative fragrance she's ever worn. It smells great on her. I love it but it's not my style and I'm not that big on cedar which becomes stronger as the fragrance develops.

    The Carons started going down hill in the early nineties and that decline has continued. They're still good, but what you smell in the urn extraits isn't nearly what it used to be.
    Last edited by pluran; 27th March 2008 at 09:51 AM.

  16. #16

    Post Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    pluran, that was an excellent answer.

    I also appreciate his views alot, and my remark was not meant to be taken seriously. I tend to agree with him in general, and it's absolutely certain that he has more sophisticated nose than I do. So no, he is not anosmic to beauty. That was kind of a bad joke to begin with .

    Anyway, I still stand by my original post. It's hard for me to believe that he actually thinks that the fragrances in his list that I mentioned are superior blends to to the examples I gave. Making these lists is kind of problematic, and it seems to me that he gave more emphasis on the originality of a fragrance time it was released, than I would in my lists. Other than obvious reason of personal preference, that might have a part to play in explaining these differences in opinions.
    Last edited by Johnny_Ludlow; 27th March 2008 at 10:12 AM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    A little off topic, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post

    The Carons started going down hill in the early nineties and that decline has continued. They're still good, but what you smell in the urn extraits isn't nearly what it used to be.
    Do you mean they changed the perfume formulations for the classic Carons?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    a snippet from LT's older blog.

    "A properly romantic perfume should incite to adventure. Wait for autumn to come, remember Radiguet's "Le
    Diable au Corps" and pay a visit to Serge Lutens' enchanted shop in the Jardins du Palais Royal. Once there, boldly demand Bois de Violette. This miraculous fragrance, a love story in a bottle, is a variation on Shiseido's Féminité Du Bois and restores the synthetic violet of methyl ionone to its rightful place as the most poetic molecule ever made."
    Last edited by fredricktoo; 27th March 2008 at 10:43 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    I can't wait for my copy to arrive! I pre-ordered it from Amazon with another little gem called "Classic Perfume Advertising, 1920-1970" by Jacqueline Johnson.
    [font=verdana][url=http://del.icio.us/scentedpages][b]my bookmarks on del.icio.us[/b][/url][/font]
    [font=verdana][url=http://www.nstperfume.com/perfume-books/][b]my book reviews on NST[/b][/url][/font]
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    I'm in the "like cool water better than git camp" and have been for many years. Cool water is brilliant in composition, if not in ingredient quality (on which criterion GIT would definitely win). Thing is, I just don't like the violet note in GIT (apart from very occasionally).

    Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it is bad. Think of Habit Rouge (a sixties classic, very popular, still sells) that could well be how cool water will be regarded in about 10 years.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Eau de Guerlain is a masculine scent?

    It's been going cheap for years at a local chemist chain down here, but usually it's in the women's section. Perfumeworld have it as unisex, and I couldn't find it at OsMoz.

    Anyhow, seems a controversial choice.
    Renato

  22. #22

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    I am looking forward to the book, but after reading this excerpted list it just may be another ride down that same old road. It's like Conde Nast Traveller reporting that Venice is beautiful. Who ever said it wasn't?
    LOL

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Thanks for posting this zztopp - I must agree with the_good_life, I think this list is most likely for PR purposes and neither Turin nor Sanchez really put a lot of weight on 'Top Ten' lists.

    I am excited about reading the book also - most likely there will be a significant portion of fragrance reviews on fragrances that we rarely talk about, here on Basenotes.

    EDIT: Oh - and I just realized Basenotes gets mentioned in the 2nd paragraph of the news article. How nice - wonder if Grant saw this!?
    Last edited by mikeperez23; 27th March 2008 at 01:49 PM.
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  24. #24

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    I'm a little puzzled by the tone of the responses here. Criticism is, and has always been, a subjective response to a particular art form, be it literature, drama, art, film, or even fashion. Ideally one wants to read a critic who has a substantive knowledge of the history of his or her area as well as a thorough understanding of its forms, and who can appreciate innovation within a context of classicism. Criticism is, in short, informed engagement - with both art and the critic's audience. The best critics will always lead us to either discovery or to renewed appreciation, and will impart enough of their own knowledge to give us a stronger foundation on which to make their own judgments. Perfume is an interesting case in that there really is no established critical tradition, or at least there hadn't been one until Turin wrote the first guide, and until the net and sites like Basenotes made the development of one possible.

    "I don't agree with X" or "Who is X to be telling me what smells good?" miss the point, as to expect a critic's judgments to always match one's own is a pretty hopeless exercise.
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Creek View Post
    I'm a little puzzled by the tone of the responses here. Criticism is, and has always been, a subjective response to a particular art form, be it literature, drama, art, film, or even fashion. Ideally one wants to read a critic who has a substantive knowledge of the history of his or her area as well as a thorough understanding of its forms, and who can appreciate innovation within a context of classicism. Criticism is, in short, informed engagement - with both art and the critic's audience. The best critics will always lead us to either discovery or to renewed appreciation, and will impart enough of their own knowledge to give us a stronger foundation on which to make their own judgments. Perfume is an interesting case in that there really is no established critical tradition, or at least there hadn't been one until Turin wrote the first guide, and until the net and sites like Basenotes made the development of one possible.

    "I don't agree with X" or "Who is X to be telling me what smells good?" miss the point, as to expect a critic's judgments to always match one's own is a pretty hopeless exercise.
    Well said Morgan Creek. Glad to see someone around here is functioning at a higher level.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    Well said Morgan Creek. Glad to see someone around here is functioning at a higher level.
    Ditto.

    I don't see what all the fuss is about. The female list is pretty conservative and uncontroversial. The male list is a balance of classics with a few surprises (Cool Water and Beyond Paradise).

    Top 10 lists, whether they be from a famous perfume writer or the newest BNer, are just that - a subjective snapshot in time of what that person likes at that moment, based on whatever criteria they think are important (classicism, uniqueness, impact on the art...)

    While the list doesn't match up with my top 10, there's a fair few in there which I regard very highly (Azzaro, Habit Rouge, Chanel PM, Derby and Cool Water).

    It's just like bagging Robert Parker in the wine world. A mix of jealousy, tall poppy syndrome and an unwillingness to acknowledge that critics are subjective - they are not asking us to take it as gospel.
    Top 10 (not in order): Dunhill 1934, Dunhill Edition, Terre d'Hermes, Rive Gauche, Habit Rouge, Guerlain Vetiver, Knize Ten, Bois du Portugal, Vintage Tabarome, Green Irish Tweed

    Summer Rotation: GIT, Aventus, Erolfa, Vetiver 1948, Guerlain Vetiver, Malle VE, Terre d'Hermes, Bvlgari PH, Bvlgari Acqua, Habit Rouge EDC and Sport, ADP Colonia Assoluta, Chanel PMC, Dunhill Edition, Eau Sauvage, TF Azure Lime

  27. #27

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    I'm in the "like cool water better than git camp" and have been for many years. Cool water is brilliant in composition, if not in ingredient quality (on which criterion GIT would definitely win). Thing is, I just don't like the violet note in GIT (apart from very occasionally).

    Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it is bad. Think of Habit Rouge (a sixties classic, very popular, still sells) that could well be how cool water will be regarded in about 10 years.
    The list maybe somewhat of a PR schtick because his original 1994 reviews guide states that Cool Water isn't as good as GIT. But then his preferences might have changed over the years. There are many classics which didn't make the list and it wa a surprise to see Bulgari Black amongst the top ten! Eitherways I don't think this top ten is ever going to change but it will be amusing and interesting to read the other reviews.
    -

  28. #28

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    First of all, I am going to buy the book. I have pre-ordered it on Amazon., WOW!
    He's a serious nose, a serious scientist/chemist, a serious critic. I think he realizes that he's unique in his field and has little competition on many fronts. Azzaro and Number 5 are in "Top 10", Wow!
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 1st April 2008 at 03:44 AM. Reason: self-censored

  29. #29

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    And many thought I was being cinical to detest the purchase of this book some threads ago. I'm afraid Dimitri said what I predicted a while back, "A ride down the same ole road".

  30. #30

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    I couldn't agree more with the Female fragrances on the list.

    I couldn't disagree more with the Male fragrances on the list, I disagree with all ten.

    To each his own...
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  31. #31

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Its curious how people change their opinions and have new perceptions after the wise-man words...

  32. #32

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    We can take it easy now. This book is almost on its way. Why should one get excited only because some journalist chose to give us what everybody is waiting for: a top-10 list to tear apart, two of them! Such charts are bound to turn against their author. At best they make a very few happy while causing protest and outrage with the majority of readers. Could a book author really want to expose himself / herself to something that will inevitably become a tiring subject in interviews and more serious discussions with his readers? Say anything you want about LT - he isn't stupid! 1200 reviews must have produced way over 20 perfume ratings of 5/5. Why didn't those make it, and where are the uniscents ? Until that becomes clear, I am not going to criticize anything about the book. The article probably just intended to raise some curiosity. And that obviously worked!

    Luca Turin wrote his first Guide (two editions) without any ratings and, of course, without forcing a preference list on his (French) readers. But this was a European book and for a different market. Still, it is so unlike the master and pioneer of critical perfume review to feel comfortable in the straight-jacket of formal digital rating, and of writing meaningless charts. Those familiar with the Le Guide will remember that he had a system of encouraging men and women alike to try almost everything he had selected, from Paco Rabanne’s Calandre to Caron’s Yatagan. As you may also recall, the seventies and eighties didn’t know uniscents yet. I stopped counting, but there is practically no Caron perfume he didn’t write a recommendation for in 1992-94.

    Hopefully the book contains more surprises. If not provided by Turin, then certainly by Tania S., introduced in very few words by John Lanchester’s book review : “Sanchez is that happy thing, a perfume critic.” ( recommended ) A perfume critic I had never heard of. As it turns out, this is Tanja in Turins Perfume blog of 2006, and Tanja who edited Turins book ‘Secret of Scent’. Too bad she also deleted all of her own perfume reviews on MUA (Make-up Alley) a while ago. But as we have access to the updated versions soon, this sin will weigh less heavy. 'This lady is one of us, if you will, and reportedly gifted with exactly that kind of humor I sometimes miss on this board. And so I am looking forward to hours of entertaining reading. “The question that women casually shopping for perfume ask more than any other is this: ‘What scent drives men wild?’ After years of intense research, we know the definitive answer. It is bacon.” Bless her!

    This Guide wasn't written primarily for Basenoters and other perfume bloggers. But even if I should be disappointed reading it - to have details about 1200 fragrances
    neatly at hand for a fraction of yet another colognemay turn out to be useful.
    Last edited by narcus; 28th March 2008 at 07:41 AM. Reason: corrected info
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  33. #33

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    Well said Morgan Creek. Glad to see someone around here is functioning at a higher level.
    In Morgan's statement, the attempt to define the role of a critic was made. If we are not to consider the information of a critic as a guide in our own perfume shopping and that the critic's information is an opinion unto himself, in that case, we are all critics and thus shouldn't be reading what he has to say in the first place. It is evident that most don't agree with his list, which is his opinion and he is entitled to it. The point is, any one of us here is capable of comming up with a list which suffices to say that the book is not needed. As pointed out already, his opinions are mutable and reeks of inconsistency. Therefore, difinitve knowledge of the classics is not found.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    The book looks like it will be of interest. And if the price isn't too exhorbitant, I'll probably buy it for history, background, and education. Regardless of the authors' or anyone else's opinions on scent, I have to like what I wear. I don't need validation from anyone else's list.
    Brent

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  35. #35

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by Scentologist View Post
    It is evident that most don't agree with his list, which is his opinion and he is entitled to it. The point is, any one of us here is capable of comming up with a list which suffices to say that the book is not needed. As pointed out already, his opinions are mutable and reeks of inconsistency. Therefore, difinitve knowledge of the classics is not found.

    So much for two centuries of the art of criticism. John Ruskin, who needs you? James Agee, you should have found a day job. Virginia Woolf, what was your point, again?
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  36. #36
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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by Scentologist View Post
    In Morgan's statement, the attempt to define the role of a critic was made. If we are not to consider the information of a critic as a guide in our own perfume shopping and that the critic's information is an opinion unto himself, in that case, we are all critics and thus shouldn't be reading what he has to say in the first place. It is evident that most don't agree with his list, which is his opinion and he is entitled to it. The point is, any one of us here is capable of comming up with a list which suffices to say that the book is not needed. As pointed out already, his opinions are mutable and reeks of inconsistency. Therefore, difinitve knowledge of the classics is not found.
    I hope that works for you big guy. The book is not about a list, and whether or not "most" happen to agree with it means very little. Because from an enlightened standpoint, it is not seen as right and wrong, it is seen as powerful diversity that stimulates thought, and humans enjoy that diverstity. It's also crystal clear that you have no clue why Luca Turin even writes about perfume. As I wrote in a previous post, the level of consciousness is dropping rapidly, and this thread is another prime indicator of it. As far as the list goes, I find it remarkably appropriate for what it was most likely intended, but then I've been smelling perfumes for more than twenty five years, which is longer than many people here have been alive. I would also add that more knowledge makes more manifest the many gaps in your knowledge, for the more you know, the more you know you don't know. That's why constant certitude is the mindset of fools. One thing's for sure, a smart guy like you should know better than to make assumptions. Because as you should know, assumptions are the mother of all f*ck ups.
    Last edited by pluran; 28th March 2008 at 03:50 PM.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    I happen to enjoy reading Luca Turin. Love is a better word. A lot. More so than Mr. Burr (who I find is like a food critic who admittedly does not enjoy cilantro, basil, or garlic), I find that Mr. Turin enjoys fragrances as a whole and in their myriad manifestations: he enjoys the art and composition in the most masculine of scents as well as the feminine, and everything in between. His takes on and descriptions of notes is unparalleled in my reading; I find that he is one of the very few people on earth who can accurately describe scent.

    However, incredible nose and descriptive abilities aside, Mr. Turin is human. Like the rest of us, he has his likes and dislikes, and much like any seasoned critic of a subjective art (i.e., food, music, movies, fragrance, etc.), his tastes ultimately come out in the end.

    Now just because GIT got totally owned, does that mean everyone should like Cool Water? Does that mean we should rush out and purchase a large bottle of Beyond Paradise for men simply because Mr. Turin ranked it in his top ten? My point is, each of us has our own taste. I happen to disagree with Luca on Beyond Paradise. I have a small bottle of it and find it absolutely ridiculous (no offense). However, to his nose it is sublime, and he has every right to that, just as we all have the right to like or dislike any scent that comes along.

    In the end, I enjoy reading Luca Turin because of his insights and descriptions of scent (and he is a fascinating person as well). I might look into and explore a fragrance because of his writings--perhaps picking up subtleties I had not otherwise, and what comes of that--but I will never "like" something simply because he does (or anyone else for that matter). I trust my own nose and that's about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it is bad. Think of Habit Rouge (a sixties classic, very popular, still sells) that could well be how cool water will be regarded in about 10 years.
    I totally agree.
    Last edited by Nicolas V; 27th March 2008 at 07:25 PM.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas V View Post
    My point is, each of us has our own taste. I happen to disagree with Luca on Beyond Paradise. I have a small bottle of it and find it absolutely ridiculous (no offense). However, to his nose it is sublime, and he has every right to that, just as we all have the right to like or dislike any scent that comes along.
    Luca Turin is cool.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 1st April 2008 at 04:21 AM.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post
    Another book brimming with subjective insights.

    Aside from global sales figures (á la Mugler's Angel and Gaultier's Le Male), on what basis do Turin and Sanchez select their top 10? Balance? Quality of ingredients? Complexity? Perhaps simplicity? I'm always interested in what a perfumer has to say, but this is simply a revenue-gathering exercise.

    Smells are subjective. Period.
    Turin is a scientist, and I think in a preface he should describe some methodological approach

    Smells are not totally subjective
    Last edited by DreamerII; 28th March 2008 at 11:37 AM.
    "PLAIN LIVING, HIGH THINKING" O.W., De Profundis
    Real beauty: 1) Frederic Malle 1-20 2) Chanel Egoiste 3) YSL Opium pour Homme edp 4) TF Noir de Noir

    Noses: 1) Jacques Cavallier 2) Maurice Roucel

  40. #40

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Creek View Post
    So much for two centuries of the art of criticism. John Ruskin, who needs you? James Agee, you should have found a day job. Virginia Woolf, what was your point, again?
    I am elated that you find his works in comparison of such people. Again, your opinion. Me personally, I hardly find it worthy of such acclaim.
    Last edited by Scentologist; 27th March 2008 at 07:38 PM. Reason: sentence completion

  41. #41

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    An "obsessed amateur" strikes again! I have a mixed reaction to "Top 10" lists. They tend to tax my wallet.

    A couple of the scents on the lists are difficult to find - at least for the general public. Like Apres l'Ondee (especially in edp and parfum strengths) and Derby. Aside from interesting reading, what benefit does it have to list fragrances that are unlikely to come back in their original former "glory"?

    On the constructive side, the list is already directing me to take a closer look at certain "highly regarded" scents - which is one of the functions of Basenotes, is it not? - like I did with my recently arrived sample of Derby - which I tried on last night for the first time. While I was wallowing in the initial sillage, I thought, "This reminds me of something ..." ... bingo! I was subconsciously associating to Mitsouko (reference chypre) of all things! And yet Derby is not classified (at least not on that list) as a chypre while Chanel's Pour Monsieur is! Is my nose that off?? Could one classify Derby as a "masculine mitsouko"?? I rather liked Derby, by the way. Come to think of it, I'm glad Derby was on the list!

    Timbuktu and Beyond Paradise were real surprises IMO. Among the 10 BEST OK. A little off-topic but I accidentally bought Beyond Paradise After Shave (in Barcelona airport) thinking it was edt!

  42. #42

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Helg just wrote a review of the book:

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...d-sanchez.html

  43. #43

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoRoads View Post
    Evidently, I need to try Beyond Paradise Men.

    I have run across its name one too many times recently - and now I am curious.
    Just as an aside to the main topic here - I did get a sample of Beyond Paradise for Men last night.

    It is very well blended and not offensive in any way, but a little too fresh for my taste. Edwards' classifies it as a Crisp Woods.

    It seems to be more of a summer scent, so I will put my sample away until then.
    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could to where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, ...... I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost

  44. #44

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    I'm sorry if I seem ignorant (cos I'm new to this n all), but shouldn't there be a few (at least) 'niche'-type fragrances on those lists? I mean, where are the Lutens, the L'Artisans, the Creeds? Or are the lists only about 'mass' fragrances? Am I missing something?

  45. #45

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascella View Post
    Helg just wrote a review of the book:

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...d-sanchez.html
    Just in time! And almost a preview. Thank you so much, Ascella!

    Helg sure knows what kind of details true maniacs want to read about! Her book review is most informative, and –finally- someone really takes notice of co-author Tania Sanchez! I am sure that her contributions have not just been of an accessory nature. Little details, like initialed reviews and innovative fragrance categories speak for both. They could be very helpful for the reader, and it seems that the impressive number of perfumes won’t be that big after they sorted them. Quiet and loud perfumes – yes, such groups never existed. So, all the fuss about the top ten was merely a storm in a glass of water? LMAO !

    If I understand it correctly, they actually present eight different fragrance groups, and particularly recommend ten in each group to their readers. As both Luca, and Tania are 100% liberal concerning gender selections I actually have a choice of eighty perfumes if I intend to follow their recommendations ? What a prospect!
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
    ps: I just uncovered Turins 10 personal favorites, under Crack O’Doom conditions, summer 2005. I’ll post those here later.
    Last edited by narcus; 29th March 2008 at 05:15 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  46. #46

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post
    Smells are subjective. Period.
    I agree.

  47. #47

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Personal choices of Tania Sanchez and Luca Turin in August 2005:
    (a metal play)


    Tania Sanchez
    AA Pampelune
    Black (Bulgari)
    Bois des Îles
    Chanel 19
    Cuir de Russie
    Ormonde Jane
    Passage d’Enfer
    Vol de Nuit
    2x Nombre Noir decant

    Luca Turin
    Angel
    Black (Bulgari)
    Bois de Violettes
    Beyond Paradise f
    Cuir de Russie
    Farnesiana
    Habit Rouge
    Joy
    Mitsouko
    Shalimar

    (TS takes 2 small decants of NN along to trade against something the other maniacs have, and she might fancy later)

    Source: Flexitral /Turin/ BlogtextWeb
    Last edited by narcus; 28th March 2008 at 03:45 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  48. #48

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Luca Truin works for a company that creates synthetic scent ingredients (Flexitral). Now why is it, that so many cheap generic fragrances from huge selling companies figure on his top ten list and so few niche perfumers? Why is it, that Cool Water gets more credits than GIT from Creed, which is known to use much raw ingredients in it's creations?

  49. #49

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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by rex View Post
    Why is it, that Cool Water gets more credits than GIT from Creed, which is known to use much raw ingredients in it's creations?
    Perhaps CW is more consistent than GIT.

  50. #50
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by scentsual View Post
    An "obsessed amateur" strikes again! I have a mixed reaction to "Top 10" lists. They tend to tax my wallet.

    A couple of the scents on the lists are difficult to find - at least for the general public. Like Apres l'Ondee (especially in edp and parfum strengths) and Derby. Aside from interesting reading, what benefit does it have to list fragrances that are unlikely to come back in their original former "glory"?

    On the constructive side, the list is already directing me to take a closer look at certain "highly regarded" scents - which is one of the functions of Basenotes, is it not? - like I did with my recently arrived sample of Derby - which I tried on last night for the first time. While I was wallowing in the initial sillage, I thought, "This reminds me of something ..." ... bingo! I was subconsciously associating to Mitsouko (reference chypre) of all things! And yet Derby is not classified (at least not on that list) as a chypre while Chanel's Pour Monsieur is! Is my nose that off?? Could one classify Derby as a "masculine mitsouko"?? I rather liked Derby, by the way. Come to think of it, I'm glad Derby was on the list!

    Timbuktu and Beyond Paradise were real surprises IMO. Among the 10 BEST OK. A little off-topic but I accidentally bought Beyond Paradise After Shave (in Barcelona airport) thinking it was edt!
    Everything on the lists is available and in good condition. Pour Monsieur has been discontinued but can be easily acquired. Mitsouko was reworked by Edouard Flechier in 2005, is still excellent, and is widely available in three concentrations. All of the Guerlains he mentioned are still basically as good as ever. Derby is a chypre. Some of Turin's classifications in the list appear to be modified for whatever reason. We won't know much of anything without seeing the book. He's well aware that Derby is a chypre and that Azzaro Pour Homme is a fougere, etc. Regarding the women's list, it's advisable to seek out the vintage formulation of Rive Gauche. Again, Turin knows this and the book will tell you more.

    Regarding Timbuktu, it's a dynamite fragrance with much better presence than most L'Artisans. It also puts out some of the best sillage I've ever smelled. I've never smelled Beyond Paradise Men but hear that it's a hell of a lot better than the groupthink has determined, and am looking forward to it. I have only smelled it briefly, but the Ormonde fragrance is superb. The others speak for themselves. Cool Water is surprising, and even though people may not "agree" with it, I'll guarantee you he had a good reason for it being on the list.

    There are other lists in the book but I haven't seen them. Either way, the book is not about lists. And it isn't about whether or not you agree with everything. That's never going to happen. Not even close. Especially not with 1500 reviews. Most people believe that their beliefs are the right ones and that if they disagree with someone then they must be wrong. But from an enlightened standpoint, it is not seen as right and wrong, it is seen as the powerful diversity that stimulates thought, and all humans enjoy that diversity. And one thing's for sure, Turin always stimulates thought.
    Last edited by pluran; 29th March 2008 at 02:59 PM.

  51. #51

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by rex View Post
    Luca Truin works for a company that creates synthetic scent ingredients (Flexitral). Now why is it, that so many cheap generic fragrances from huge selling companies figure on his top ten list and so few niche perfumers? Why is it, that Cool Water gets more credits than GIT from Creed, which is known to use much raw ingredients in it's creations?
    Nah, if you've read your Turin you know he's about as far from being an industry whore than it gets. It's true that he has tended to think in the "modern perfumery" frame of reference and as a hard-nosed-scientist scientist he doesn't think much of the esoteric aspects of natural perfumery. You could literally see two paradigms clash when the argument over natural perfumery broke out on his blog, after he had rather summarily dismissed a large set of nat. perf. samples. I thought I saw a pattern in that he had prejudices against n.p.as well as not liking the unconventional approach of Villoresi (and I wouldn't be surprised if he found many older Creeds boring), gearing him towards the classic French compositions, but I'm happy to read in helg's review that he's apparently become more inclusive in this respect (rather than less so since working for flexitral). In most every respect I've found Turin's attitudes to be refreshingly independent and beautifully blending the bemused ironic detachment of a sophisticated mind with the passion of a true lover of all things fragrant.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  52. #52

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    (and I wouldn't be surprised if he [Turin] found many older Creeds boring)
    I recall a line from The Emperor of Scent that people "in the industry" roll their eyes when Creed is mentioned. I think the phrase was something like, "Creed? You mean those kids that play with scents?" It was along those lines.

  53. #53
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    Personal choices of Tania Sanchez and Luca Turin in August 2005:








    (a metal play)

    Tania Sanchez

    ...Cuir de Russie...

    Luca Turin

    ...Cuir de Russie...


    Source: Flexitral /Turin/ BlogtextWeb

    Thanks for those lists narcus. Just to clarify, it's Chanel Cuir de Russie that they're talking about.
    Last edited by pluran; 28th March 2008 at 05:24 PM.

  54. #54

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSlarty View Post
    I recall a line from The Emperor of Scent that people "in the industry" roll their eyes when Creed is mentioned. I think the phrase was something like, "Creed? You mean those kids that play with scents?" It was along those lines.
    I think it was a comment from the Saint-Saens professors. However, Creed's success hasn't gone unnoticed by others. Their profit margins are extremely healthy and I wouldn't be surprised if they are the most profitable niche house right now. Many big conglomerates have tried to acquire them. Other houses have taken notice of their success in the America and abroad...for example, Chanel were quite intrigued by how successful Creed have been with their 4oz bottle sales, and it was one of the reasons they decided to launch their exclusif collection in those huge flacons. Chanel and Creed also share the sand fields for the glass of their flacons.

    I agree with the_good_life's assessment of Turin and his writings. Even if I don't agree with Turins' reviews, I still learn a lot about fragrance composition, new molecules and perfume history from his articles. A certain level of biased discussion is to expected when you have close friends in the industry, have a business to run, and are married to a fierce perfumista.

    I hope that there's a list in the book which ranks the top 10 modern classics. I would be surprised to see many Chanels, Guerlains or Carons in it
    -

  55. #55

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    I think it was a comment from the Saint-Saens professors.
    Ah yes, now I remember! Thanks for jogging the ol' memory.

  56. #56
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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Beyond Paradise by Lauder in the top ten?!

    Remind me to NEVER listen to anything this guy has to say, nor anything his fans/supporters might have to say. Luca Turin - You're officially "cut-off".

    Subjective, blah blah blah. Beyond Paradise, even if it isn't the worst scent of all time (I find it to be), I can't imagine how any fragrance connoisseur could place it amongst their favorites unless they had some sort of personal bias. The stuff smells like a flaming ziplock bag full of girly-drink vomit. Horrible. More like bottom-ten.
    Lately I've been wearing:
    Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah

  57. #57
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    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...d-sanchez.html

    That's a hell of a review helg. Thanks a lot.
    Last edited by pluran; 28th March 2008 at 05:46 PM.

  58. #58

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...d-sanchez.html

    That's a hell of a review helg. Thanks a lot.
    The link doesn't work for me, but maybe you meant to link to the same review as I posted on the previous page?

  59. #59

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    If I can discover five new fragrances that truly rock my world by reading the book, it will be worth it.

  60. #60

    Default Re: Perfume the Guide: Top ten Mens and Womens fragrances [preview]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    The busy Luca Turin has been able juggle his full-time employment at Flexitral, Inc. (since 2001) with a career as a professional, perfume critic. Writing unbiased reviews of products containing Flexitral's synthetic chemicals. What a guy! And so un-biased, too!
    I think I have read essentially the same from your pen for the third time, or more. So I really want to know why somebody intelligent as you are feels motivated to be on this anti-Turin-campaign? Not accepting Turin (or anybody) as an authority on perfumes is one thing. Some accept him, others don’t and whoever feels like it exchanges their views on that. This is how I like Basenotes. But to try and defame a well accepted perfume critic, scientist, and perfumer who now also derives profits from his theory of smells is something else. If you really shouldn’t know that Turin has frequently discussed, and certainly never hidden his activities in Flexitral, you must have ignored sources that were readily at your disposal:

    -Turin talked about Flexitral in his Blog of 2005.
    -Most of those who read his early perfume reviews (1992), or his blog, accessed these documents via one of Flexitral’s websites.
    -The perfumeguide website - links - says: " Flexitral - The fragrance and flavor startup based on Turin’s theory of olfaction …”
    -The Perfect Scent, Acknowledgements: Thanks to..Flexitral CEO Jacquelin Grant for turning a dream into a dream job.” (The activitities of Flexitral are also described in that book.)
    - Lanchaster touches on this in his recent review of The Guide in The New Yorker.

    Of course I am just as open to education as anybody: Which are the perfumes containing materials supplied from Flexitral? And where are the reviews for these? I have seen C.Burr's reviews of Nile and Lovely and of fragrances related to Ellena and family. And I stopped smiling! (But that would be another thread.) I don’t remember where I found this most recent bit of information, but I have no reason not to believe it: Turin has taken a longer leave from Flexitral and is heading back to London University next. Socks and sandals be with him, it will be summer soon!
    Last edited by narcus; 31st March 2008 at 02:00 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

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