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  1. #61

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    I tried to take a shortcut by saying: as a European I need no rating system. I should have added"...for perfume", sorry. The North American market is so much bigger, that’s probably why ratings are more popular or important there. Europe has many different small markets and societies with different habits concerning food, drinks, and smells.
    North America is very diverse and many people living in it can form opinions about art on their own, but some are too busy to sample hundreds of fragrances and more power to them.

    Congratulations! I might take issue with your comments in re: Champs Elysees that I read in Allure, but if you'd rather wear EL Beyond Paradise, far be it from me to stop you. Just stand over there a ways... hehe. Just kidding.

    I don't usually go by reviews, because I hardly like anything and it took me a few hundred bucks to figure that out. I will enjoy reading your book, someday, I'm sure.
    Last edited by beachroses; 15th April 2008 at 01:07 AM.

  2. #62

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR View Post
    And, why no Montales? Are they not popular enough, not deemed interesting enough, or is it just a fluke oversight? Or is the number of scents you wanted to cover limited and therefore you only covered those that interested you the most, or that you found most relevant to the fragrance fanatic community?
    I have a feeling that if Turin had decided to review Montales, except for a couple, most would have been trashed for their trivial and boring formulas, just like the Villoresis.
    --------------------------------------

    [I]
    Quote Originally Posted by eric;1202747[/I
    And I promise I will lighten up when this mystery is cleared. Maybe not important for most,(although numerous threads tell otherwise) but to me it is one of those things I always wondered about. I remember an interview with Bourdon about Coolwater where he said that in the early '80s he had trouble selling his formula to companies, untill Coty decided to bring it out. He never thought it would be a worldwide succes. If I only could find back that interview


    Here's the interview with Bourdon (and Malle):

    http://www.lesechos.fr/info/metiers/4582913.htm

    Pour réussir ce pari audacieux, il fait appel à des « auteurs » habituellement dans les coulisses, qui pour la première fois de leur carrière signent un flacon de parfum de leur nom. Ainsi de Jean-Claude Ellena, devenu depuis parfumeur maison chez Hermès, d'Edouard Fléchier, recruté dès lors par Chanel, ou encore de Pierre Bourdon, considéré « comme l'un des parfumeurs les plus innovants de son époque ». Ce dernier, à la tête de son laboratoire Fragrance Ressources, reconnaît qu'« être anonyme » ne le dérange pas : « C'est la loi du genre dans notre métier. Le plus important, c'est d'échapper à la censure du système financier et d'être dans la contestation. Un créateur est révolutionnaire par essence. » Ce parfumeur sait de quoi il parle. Il y a une vingtaine d'années, pour lancer « Cool Water », aujourd'hui mondialement connu, il a mis cinq ans : deux ans de travail et trois autres pour convaincre une société de le diffuser, après sept refus. « J'ai même failli jeter la formule. » Finalement, le groupe Davidhoff ose l'aventure, et ne le regrette pas.


    Perhaps both Luca Turin and Michael Edwards need to revise the statements regarding GIT.
    Last edited by zztopp; 15th April 2008 at 04:56 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    -

  3. #63

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    I was just on a flight from NYC to LA. I spent most of the time reading The Guide. Like many others, I'm truly mystified by the 2 page, rave review of Beyond Paradise.
    When I got off the plane at LAX, I decided to high tale it over to the Duty Free shop in the Delta Terminal and sniff the so called masterpiece with the review fresh in my mind.
    Well, I'm sitting in my hotel room with the test strip right next to me and all I can say is, I'm still mystified. The only thing that comes to mind is laundry detergent and the movie Logan's Run.
    I'll sleep on it and maybe I'll have some kind of epiphany during the night.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 15th April 2008 at 06:58 AM.

  4. #64

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    I was just on a flight from NYC to LA. I spent most of the time reading The Guide. Like many others, I'm truly mystified by the 2 page, rave review of Beyond Paradise.
    When I got off the plane at LAX, I decided to high tale it over to the Duty Free shop in the Delta Terminal and sniff the so called masterpiece with the review fresh in my mind.
    Well, I'm sitting in my hotel room with the test strip right next to me and all I can say is, I'm still mystified. The only thing that comes to mind is laundry detergent and the movie Logan's Run.
    I'll sleep on it and maybe I'll have some kind of epiphany during the night.
    I think we shouldn't overinterpret some of these evaluations.

    "Elizabeth: For Luca and Tania: When you review a fragrance, how much do your own personal tastes influence you in how high you grade it?

    LT: 100%.

    TS: I have no impersonal tastes. "

    http://nowsmellthis.blogharbor.com/b...4/3636692.html

    So he personally likes it - alot. I have an irrational infatuation with Vetiver hombre, because it triggers so many memories and just totally f...s with my consciousness, independent of any other quality it may or may not have as a perfume.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  5. #65

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    What about other creed fragrances? How does Edwards attribute them? This is important in assessing this.If he attributes the others to OC, it tells us much.
    At one time there were investigations into whether fragrances could be copyrighted. It is possible that if Pierre Bourdon had been touting cool water for a long time and O.Creed had smelled it and (ahem) "been heavily influenced by it" he made have given some credit to Pierre Bourdon in order to stave off legal action, or even (somewhat unlikely) out of honour.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  6. #66

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Again, a great reason to write an investigative reporting book about creed!

    Well, according to that french snipped, Bourdon had been flailing around trying to sell Cool Water for 7 years - and GIT was released in 1982, and Cool Water in 1988, so technically it's possible. But GIT was supposedly made for Cary Grant and only released to the public after his death. I doubt he comissioned it only a year or so before his death as a ripe old man.

    But of course Boudron might have tweaked his story a little and had a contract with Creed to not disclose his role - in the interview he mentions how he doesn't mind anonymity!
    CAESAR SEEKS:
    CREED: Chevrefeuille, SMW, BdP, Aventus
    Parfums d'Empire: Fougére Bengale
    YSL: Vintage M7

    CAESAR SWAPS/SELLS:
    Sale Thread



  7. #67

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    [...] Beyond Paradise [...] The only thing that comes to mind is laundry detergent and the movie Logan's Run.
    Wow ... given that is one of my all time favorite cheesy 70's movies.

    What makes it evoke the Logan's Run for you?
    ===
    “… [I] recall thinking that the computer would never advance much further than this. Call me naïve, but I seemed to have underestimated the universal desire to sit in a hard plastic chair and stare at a screen until your eyes cross.” ~ David Sedaris

  8. #68

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    So he personally likes it - alot.
    The Beyond Paradise review begins on page 92 and finishes on page 94, making it the longest review in the book. Both Turin and Sanchez share the honors, but in separate paragraphs. It is, by far, the most pedantic of the many well considered reviews. It reads a bit like a trial lawyer's defense of a guilty client, ultimately rendering it, the least personal and the least convincing entry in the book.
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Bromo33333 View Post
    Wow ... given that is one of my all time favorite cheesy 70's movies.

    What makes it evoke the Logan's Run for you?
    Beyond Paradise, to me, smells like the perfect signature scent for a future society, where everything is artificial and germ free.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 16th April 2008 at 12:02 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  9. #69

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Did he create notes that went into Beyond Paradise or for other fragrances this designer did? I wonder if there is some kind of personal or professional connection. Did he reveal which ones he was affiliated with? It has a lot of people scratching their heads, to be honest, and I am no perfume snob, either.
    --------------------------------------
    [quote=luca turin;1203398]
    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR View Post
    I wouldn't be asking this if the book we out yet in Canada, as I'm eager to take a look at it and I'd just go check it out in the store, but are the Nasomatto covered?

    And, why no Montales? QUOTE]


    The Nasomattos arrived late (next edition). Montale refused to send us fragrances.
    You only reviewed fragrances that gave you free samples? Kind of confused.
    Last edited by beachroses; 15th April 2008 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  10. #70

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    I've had the book a few days now, and having gone through it once it is nice now just to open it to random pages or just to reference a particular frag.

    I imagine we all read through a book like this for the first time with some trepidation, wondering how our favorites will be reviewed. I used to write an editorial column for timezone.com, mosly on luxury mechanical watches - and believe me, all of these unnecessary luxuries become very emotionally charged pieces of our identities. We all want our favorites to be the 5 star fragrance.

    I was wasn't suprised to see that most of what I've liked in recent years is only blandly rated. But then I know my tastes and Luca's tastes are different, but I still love to read his perfume language. I recall I asked him once what he would think is the Count de Montecristo of fragrance - he replied with Yohji Homme. I found my own answer later with Lutens' Arabie. We are watching the same movie: one in Technicolor, one in 1080P. And Tania seems to share a group-mind with him. Once more kudos to Tania for best review with CKIN2U His, I nearly fell out of my chair.

    As far as Creed goes, I would have rated them lower than Luca and Tania did.

    My complaint (let's pile them on, shall we?), which I will bring over from the other thread, goes to the issue of separate reviews of different formulations. Chanel No 5 is, I think, the only fragrance given such treatment. I would have liked to have seen similar treatment for Habit Rouge and Jicky. That aside, naming the concentration reviewed would be helpful for all of the reviews. For example Cuir de Russie: is that the parfum or the EDT?

  11. #71

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    My complaint (let's pile them on, shall we?), which I will bring over from the other thread, goes to the issue of separate reviews of different formulations. Chanel No 5 is, I think, the only fragrance given such treatment. I would have liked to have seen similar treatment for Habit Rouge and Jicky. That aside, naming the concentration reviewed would be helpful for all of the reviews. For example Cuir de Russie: is that the parfum or the EDT?
    The matter has been raised in the Nowsmellthis Q&A yesterday. Did you see it? Luca said that they were always the same perfumes in different concentrations. The answer surprised me, because it was only towards the end of last year that he became aware of the different Chanels No5. (Dreamjob). Even if Vol de Nuit, L'Heure Bleue, Cuir de Russie and others really differed in concentration only, my nose tells me something else. As a rule of thumb, the EDP usually smells a lot better, and I rather have a mini of this or nothing.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  12. #72

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    [Here's the interview with Bourdon (and Malle):

    http://www.lesechos.fr/info/metiers/4582913.htm

    Pour réussir ce pari audacieux, il fait appel à des « auteurs » habituellement dans les coulisses, qui pour la première fois de leur carrière signent un flacon de parfum de leur nom. Ainsi de Jean-Claude Ellena, devenu depuis parfumeur maison chez Hermès, d'Edouard Fléchier, recruté dès lors par Chanel, ou encore de Pierre Bourdon, considéré « comme l'un des parfumeurs les plus innovants de son époque ». Ce dernier, à la tête de son laboratoire Fragrance Ressources, reconnaît qu'« être anonyme » ne le dérange pas : « C'est la loi du genre dans notre métier. Le plus important, c'est d'échapper à la censure du système financier et d'être dans la contestation. Un créateur est révolutionnaire par essence. » Ce parfumeur sait de quoi il parle. Il y a une vingtaine d'années, pour lancer « Cool Water », aujourd'hui mondialement connu, il a mis cinq ans : deux ans de travail et trois autres pour convaincre une société de le diffuser, après sept refus. « J'ai même failli jeter la formule. » Finalement, le groupe Davidhoff ose l'aventure, et ne le regrette pas.


    Perhaps both Luca Turin and Michael Edwards need to revise the statements regarding GIT.[/quote]


    Z.Z. Top, thanks for the search and backing me up!
    I've been searchin for this. I've read it in another interview with Bourdon, also. I 've been posting about this now and then on BN, but you know, the proof. The lost interview, but now you found some info.

    Noone seemed to question this,yet, at the same time the GIT,Coolwater comparisons were numerous. It is so weird.Think about it:
    Bourdon mentioned that it took him 3 years to convince companies to sell his formula, untill Davidoff released it (Coolwater) in 1988.
    But:
    Creed claims they made Green Irish Tweed and released it in 1985 and now we have the mention of Bourdon being the creator of Green Irish Tweed?! (and Coolwater?)

    So either: Bourdon made a damn good copy of Green Irish Tweed with Coolwater, but then why the mentioning of the 3 years trying to "release"it in several interviews, while at the same time, he made (and sold) Green Irish Tweed in 1985?
    And if Michael Edwards is right and Bourdon created both Green Irish Tweed and Coolwater , why did Bourdon create Green Irish Tweed for Creed, and giving Oliver Creed all the credit for making it? That's hard to believe.

    I can't believe otherwise than Oliver Creed really created Green Irish Tweed.

    I wish someone had the knowledge,or the guts, to share the truth or at least bring some light in this matter, for the simple fact that Green Irish Tweed and Coolwater will never dissapear.
    Or at least admit that there is made an error in facts along the way.
    I wanna know,.. I wanna know!

    P.S. Still no mail back from the Creed website about my question, but I'm not suprised to be honest. I think they either don't know it themselfs, or they are afraid to answer it on this board.
    Last edited by eric; 15th April 2008 at 10:26 PM.

  13. #73

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    The matter has been raised in the Nowsmellthis Q&A yesterday. Did you see it? Luca said that they were always the same perfumes in different concentrations. The answer surprised me, because it was only towards the end of last year that he became aware of the different Chanels No5. (Dreamjob). Even if Vol de Nuit, L'Heure Bleue, Cuir de Russie and others really differed in concentration only, my nose tells me something else. As a rule of thumb, the EDP usually smells a lot better, and I rather have a mini of this or nothing.
    He says something similar in the book as well, though he noted there that sometimes the higher concentrations will have higher quality ingredients, and in some cases may in fact be different formulations. My experiences jives with yours. I can wear Habit Rouge EDC all day in any weather, the EDT was way too heavy, overly vanillic and much sweeter (the memory is dim now, I admit) to the point of being unwearable for me.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    For me, the best thing about the book is all the stuff at the beginning. I mean, a lot of it goes over familiar ground, but it is so well-put, so entertaining and informative, that even if it's old news to me, it's a joy to read. I wish my prose were as entertaining, glib, and knowledgeable as Turin's and Sánchez's. It also helps that they confirm most of my prejudices on a number of sometimes controversial topics!

    The individual reviews are slightly less interesting, although they still manage to get and hold my attention. Of course, there are two people reviewing, and they don't have identical tastes (what two people do?), so that's a factor in weighing their opinions. I find I agree with them (especially with Luca) about the classics and the great old houses like Guerlain and Chanel. I do think he can be kind of dismissive and arbitrary at times. That mostly shows up in his panning of things I really like. No surprise there, I hope.

    The best thing about the review section is that it has given me ideas for new things to try, or in some cases, has knocked me over the fence in one direction or the other about things I was in the process or trying or considering. Also, it is encouraging me to revisit some things and look for facets the reviews mention about them.

    On my personal rating chart, I'd give the book five stars. Even where it falls down a bit, it's a great read. And who cares if I agree with everything they say? I didn't expect to anyway.
    Last edited by JaimeB; 15th April 2008 at 10:37 PM.
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

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    Fiat justitia ruat cælum.

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    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
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  15. #75

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR View Post
    And, why no Montales? Are they not popular enough, not deemed interesting enough, or is it just a fluke oversight? Or is the number of scents you wanted to cover limited and therefore you only covered those that interested you the most, or that you found most relevant to the fragrance fanatic community?
    I was wondering the same thing, I went cover to cover looking for a Montale reference lol. Also, it was sad to see my entire collection get trashed with 1 or 2 stars... especially my favourites: Bleecker Street, Amouage Arcus, Rose 31, Guerlain SDV, VS For Him, pretty much all of my Creeds... There were also many notable omissions from the book, although I suppose he doesn't have time to get to every scent, or he might be leaving out juicy reviews for the sequel...
    --------------------------------------
    It was also good insight into good fragrances from brands I wouldn't otherwise try, because I am prejudice against the brand, such as Nautica Voyage, Beyond Paradise, Tommy Girl, White Linen, Pleasures, Tocade, ect.
    Last edited by somethinpositiv; 16th April 2008 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Check out my fragrances for sale at Crystal Flacon - NEW! Updated - Click Here!
    Creed, Bond No.9, Montale, Frederic Malle, Le Labo, Amouage
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  16. #76

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    I'm very entertained by the book and quite happy with my purchase...

    But since Mr. Turin has said that they may include Montales in a new edition, may I suggest including Molinard and Agatha Brown as well? I missed them.
    [correction]
    Habanita is included. My bad. I was looking for 'les masculines' - madrigal and rafale.
    [/correction]

    I did find many of the review 'laugh out loud' funny and I certainly don't mind that the author's opinions diverged from my own.
    Last edited by radix023; 16th April 2008 at 10:28 PM. Reason: habanita!

  17. #77

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR View Post
    \
    And, why no Montales? Are they not popular enough, not deemed interesting enough, or is it just a fluke oversight? Or is the number of scents you wanted to cover limited and therefore you only covered those that interested you the most, or that you found most relevant to the fragrance fanatic community?

    I was basically going to order it online until I heard there were no Montale. Now I want to look at it first, though I imagine there's enough in there to make it worth while. That's a real disappointment for me - praise or rants, I love to read informed opinions about them. There's been alot of good back and forth about the line here which I've found really interesting.
    I noticed no Montales as well (especially since there were smaller houses that were covered in the book).

    My 3 cents
    1) this was a riproaring good read.
    2) I may not agree with them, but it at least got me nosing through my collection to see what they are talking about
    3) (and maybe most importantly), the book made me want to try new stuff that I am not familiar with.

    I will admit that the star system, to me, was not nearly as valuable as the detailed notes. Is it a "good" 3 star ( a scent much better than expected) or a "bad" 3 star (the opposite.

    The important part is the conversation - which seems to have been sorely lacking up until the advent of Makeup Alley, Basenotes, Chandler Burr and Luca Turin/Tania Sanchez. The conversation alone may be what saves the industry.

    Looking forward to version 2.0.
    Sakecat's Scent Project
    "Wardrobe" and Reviews of everything I've tried to date. Please come visit and let me know what you think.

  18. #78

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Skimmed thru most of it. My first observation is all the notably omissions. There are many important, relevant & groundbreaking frags not in there. I do realize that he can't review everything, but these should be in there.

    - Dunhill (1934)
    - Dunhill Edition
    - Le Male (you/he may not like but it certainly turned Men's frags on it's ear)
    - Helmut Lang Cuiron
    - Roger & Gallet - Extra Vieille
    - Roger & Gallet - Open
    - Penhaligons - Opus 1870
    - Penhailgons - Castile
    - L'Occitane - Eau de Occitan
    - L'Occitane - Neroil EdP (old version)
    - L'Occitane - Eau des Baux
    - Rochas - Lui
    - YSL - Opium PH EdP
    - Davidoff - Zino
    - Escada PH

    Are there any I missed?
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

    Egon Schiele - Self-Potrait


    My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux

    http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/2976

  19. #79

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Spy Magazine created an Index for The Andy Warhol Diaries in 1989. Perfumes/The Guide has one done by star ratings. I started an index by company. So far this is what I got for Estee Lauder. I've included Clinique, Perscriptives, Tom Ford and Tommy Hillfiger, as they are all part of the Estee Lauder world.
    The list does not include Origins, yet.
    10 Five Stars Fragrances out of the 87. The Five Star category is the smallest class and Estee Lauder owns 11.5% of the real estate. WOW!
    Alliage ****
    Azuree *****
    Beautiful ****
    Beautiful Love ***
    Beautiful Sheer ***
    Beyond Paradise *****
    Beyond Paradise Blue ****
    Beyond Paradise Men *****
    Clinique Aromatics Elixir *****
    Perscriptives Calyx *****
    Cinnabar ****
    Dazzling Gold ***
    Dazzling Silver ****
    Estee ** - Only 2 stars, WHAT HAPPENED HERE?
    Clinique Happy ***
    Clinique Happy for Men ***
    Intuition **
    Intuition for Men ***
    Knowing *****
    Peasures *****
    Pleasures Exotic ***
    Pleasures for Men ***
    Pleasures Intense ***
    Private Collection *****
    Private Collection Tuberose Gardenia ****
    Pure White Linen ****
    Spellbound * 1 star?
    Tom Ford Black Orchid ***
    Tom Ford for Men ***
    Tommy Girl *****
    White Linen *****
    Youth Dew ****
    Youth Dew Amber Nude ****
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 17th April 2008 at 06:06 PM.

  20. #80

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    As a rule of thumb, the EDP usually smells a lot better, and I rather have a mini of this or nothing. [/SIZE]


    Just to give a little clarity; with No 5 Chanel, the edp does smell quite different to my nose than both the extrait or the edt, or even the cologne (not that I enjoy the cologne, fades too quickly). I have a vintage extrait, a newer extrait, the edp and the edt, and the edp just has something there that is a little out of sync. It is not that it is 'bad' or 'off' per-se, but it is just not a close member of the family, so to speak, it is closer to a cousin than a sibling. This is one of the very few times I would ever 'ever' suggest an edt over an edp.
    So I do understand why it received a lower rating from M. Turin, I have always felt that way myself; it just does not measure up.
    I will eventually put my 99% full bottle of edp on ebay, better than having it collect dust chez-moi (at my home)
    --------------------------------------
    Oh, and if anyone wants to experience a great animal type of classic, you must try Azuree. It completely deserves all 5 stars it was rewarded. It is the closest thing on the market resembling what Cabochard once was, or even the original Sikkim by Lancome. It is like the classic leather chypre scent, but it has florals and woods in it to round it out. It is truly a fragrant journey back to a lost age of scent.
    Last edited by Brielle87; 17th April 2008 at 05:12 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  21. #81

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy View Post
    Skimmed thru most of it. My first observation is all the notably omissions. There are many important, relevant & groundbreaking frags not in there. I do realize that he can't review everything, but these should be in there.
    - Dunhill (1934)
    - Dunhill Edition...
    Are there any I missed?
    How disappointing. Still waiting for the book, I now fear that there may be a rather short list for Santa Maria Novella 's 51 fragrances too. There are seven old perfumes (1827 -1939) including Garofano, Potpourri, Peau d'Espagne, Iris, and Colonia Russa. Have they been reviewed?
    Let's hope they didn't 'refuse' to send a big box of bottles to the couple in London. Who's to blame when a perfume house (Montale) hasn't heard of Dr.Turin or Miss Sanchez yet? The quality of a comprehensive guide shouldn't suffer from that (my 2 cents).
    Last edited by narcus; 17th April 2008 at 05:46 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  22. #82

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    How diasappointing. Still waiting for the book, I now fear that there may be a rather short list for Santa Maria Novella 's 51 fragrances too. There are seven old perfumes (1827 -1939) including Garofano, Potpourri, Peau d'Espagne, Iris and Colonia Russa. Have they been reviewed?
    There isn't one SMN review. I guess they didn't send any samples in as opposed to Estee Lauder which had a Mack truck pull up to the Turin's home.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 17th April 2008 at 05:40 AM.

  23. #83

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    There isn't one SMN review. I guess they didn't send any samples in as opposed to Estee Lauder which had a Mack truck pull up to the Turin's home.
    Helg / Perfume Shrine had told Caron fans that they would be in for a bumpy landing. Ruggles, thank you for telling me where the exit is, but where's my parachute?
    Last edited by narcus; 17th April 2008 at 07:13 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  24. #84

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Well my copy arrived today and my thoughts are very polarised. I love the essays at the beginning. I find the reviews highly disappointing, sometimes just clearly wrong but mostly just written from a perspective with has little utility- that of perfume as an art form. This is interesting but not much use when trying to decide which perfumes to buy to wear.

    Suffice it to say, the perspective and specific tastes with which these reviews are written is so significant that I feel they useless for me, other than as occasionally funny and often witty entertainment. Basenotes reviews are far better and more useful, if less funny.
    Last edited by hirch_duckfinder; 17th April 2008 at 09:52 PM. Reason: make it better
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

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    reviews

  25. #85

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    Well my copy arrived today and my thoughts are very polarised. I love the essays at the beginning. I find the reviews highly disappointing, sometimes just clearly wrong but mostly just written from a perspective with has little utility- that of perfume as an art form. This is interesting but not much use when trying to decide which perfumes to buy to wear.

    Suffice it to say, the perspective and specific tastes with which these reviews are written is so significant that I feel they useless for me, other than as occasionally funny and often witty entertainment. Basenotes reviews are far better and more useful, if less funny.

    I basically agree with you, HD. I enjoyed The Emperor of Scent and The Secret of Scent but overall I did not care for this one. The initial essays were well done and engaging and, yes, BN reviews and the more thoughtful ones on MUA better suit my needs.

    Taste in fragrance is so subjective that the review section of the definitive guide (most of the book) is largely a definitive guide to the taste of LT and TS. When LT loves something the writing is frequently sublime, but when he dislikes a scent his comments are acidic and those who wear the scent in question will feel trashed. The more abrasive reviews were curt and angry in tone. If the goal was to educate I think there are better ways than to disparage.

  26. #86

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Turin defines a five star fragrance as a masterpiece. *****

    With 11, five star fragrances, Guerlain is the leader. Jean-Paul Guerlain is credited with the creation of 5 of these, as is Jacques Guerlain. Aime, is responsible for 1.
    Not surprising for a company that has hundreds of scents and two centuries of history.

    What is surprising is Estee Lauder coming in at 2nd, with 10 five star designated fragrances, (I've included one from Prescriptives, Clinique and Tommy Hillfiger divisions of Estee Lauder in my total, with out these three, Lauder would tie with Chanel for 2nd place). Turin believes in the Lauder products, which have actually only been around since 1946. Personally, I find the majority of them to be rather mainstream, often following trends rather than setting them. Obviously Turin feels differently than me.

    As I've stated above, Chanel is in 3rd place with 7, five star fragrances. Fair enough.

    Christian Dior is next with a slightly skimpy 5.

    Followed by Serge Lutens in 4th place with 4 masterpieces to his credit. We'll see if this holds up over time.

    More to follow........
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 18th April 2008 at 04:41 AM.

  27. #87

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Paid $20.21 including shipping from www.buy.com and it arrived within 3 days. I love this book and agree with most of the evaluations on the ones I know. There are a few highly touted frags I will have to now try for both me and my girlfriend.

  28. #88

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    After calculating stats of my own ratings vs. Perfume Guide ratings, I agree with Turin and Sanchez 79% of the time. I was quite suprised to discover this fact. The one point Turin includes in his ratings - chemistry and the ability to perform difficult chemistry tasks - is a point with which I have no knowledge or personal reference. Therefore, I can only rate a frag based soley upon olfactory conclusions.

  29. #89

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy View Post
    Skimmed thru most of it. My first observation is all the notably omissions. There are many important, relevant & groundbreaking frags not in there. I do realize that he can't review everything, but these should be in there.

    - Dunhill (1934)
    - Dunhill Edition
    - Le Male (you/he may not like but it certainly turned Men's frags on it's ear)
    - Helmut Lang Cuiron
    - Roger & Gallet - Extra Vieille
    - Roger & Gallet - Open
    - Penhaligons - Opus 1870
    - Penhailgons - Castile
    - L'Occitane - Eau de Occitan
    - L'Occitane - Neroil EdP (old version)
    - L'Occitane - Eau des Baux
    - Rochas - Lui
    - YSL - Opium PH EdP
    - Davidoff - Zino
    - Escada PH

    Are there any I missed?
    Forgot:

    Versace - The Dreamer
    Bulgari PH
    Goutal - Eau d'Harien EdT

    To add, the more I read the less enthused I am with his writing. I think he should have taken more time with many of the reviews. Perhaps a scent pyramid may have been in order though there may be some debate as to what the "official" notes are. Still, a more thorough "encyclopedia" is needed in my opinion.

    What is his infatuation with Estee Lauder? I've yet to try Lauder for Men (where to find this?), but all others I've tried were mediocre at best.
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

    Egon Schiele - Self-Potrait


    My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux

    http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/2976

  30. #90

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    Thumbs up Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Ordered mine used from Amazon for mere pfennigs and it arrived within three days. Was up for HOURS devouring it. (Yes, I've read his/her others.)

    LUV the jacket photos - he's your adored prickly, erudite prof with the bemuzed twinkle in the eye - she's the cute-as-a-button wife who has no trouble saying "sometimes he's wrong" (Not - "I don't agree"....) and answers forever the burning question "What is the one fragrance that drives men stark raving mad?" (Answer: Bacon.)

    Had that feeling of pride when many of my faves got their high fives (Joy - L'Heure Bleue - Tommy Girl) Pouted when loved ones got kicked to the curb (VIW - Fantasy - Muguet de Bonheur) "Validated" (I knew there was lavender in New Haarlem, even though it's not listed in the notes. And Missoni's worth *****!!)

    I learned a lot - I'm still having a great time re-reading. Check it out. :bounce:
    Last edited by TaoLady; 19th April 2008 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Important addition
    "The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." Lao Tze

  31. #91

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy View Post
    What is his infatuation with Estee Lauder? I've yet to try Lauder for Men (where to find this?), but all others I've tried were mediocre at best.
    I agree, in space, no one can hear me scream: Estee Lauder has 10 five star fragrances, WTF!!???????????

  32. #92

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy View Post
    What is his infatuation with Estee Lauder? I've yet to try Lauder for Men (where to find this?), but all others I've tried were mediocre at best.
    Direct:
    http://www.esteelauder.com/templates...CT_ID=PROD1888

  33. #93

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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    I've been reading the reviews on this site for six months, and while I have derived a great deal of knowledge from them, I have gotten far more relevant and tangible information from this book. Not to mention I've been laughing my ass off.

    These threads are revealing though, in that they expose a great deal of what I'd call
    "Basenotescentricity". Most of it appears pretentious at best, and I haven't seen one complaint in here that amounts to anything.

    More importantly, people who have come into their own power look for things they like, rather than clamoring (like little girls) about everything that displeases them.
    Last edited by Grind; 20th April 2008 at 01:06 PM.

  34. #94

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grind View Post
    More importantly, people who have come into their own power look for things they like, rather than clamoring (like little girls) about everything that displeases them.
    And then there are those people that have enough self awareness to recognize that they've just done what they've accused others of and wisely choose the delete, instead of the save key.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 20th April 2008 at 06:32 PM.

  35. #95
    DON'T DRINK AND DRESS

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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grind View Post
    I've been reading the reviews on this site for six months, and while I have derived a great deal of knowledge from them, I have gotten far more relevant and tangible information from this book. Not to mention I've been laughing my ass off.

    These threads are revealing though, in that they expose a great deal of what I'd call
    "Basenotescentricity". Most of it appears pretentious at best, and I haven't seen one complaint in here that amounts to anything.

    More importantly, people who have come into their own power look for things they like, rather than clamoring (like little girls) about everything that displeases them.
    Other than the technical and personal factual information revealed, the opiinions of fragrances reviewed in the book are, just as those voiced in Basenotes Reviews and Threads, personal opinions--nothing more. And isn't this site just the right place to express such opinions? Yours, for example?

    I tend to take all opinions of fragrances with a grain of salt until I personally try the fragrance myself. Then I am happy to offer others my own personal opinion (which, taken as just that, is always 100% correct--for me).
    Last edited by kbe; 20th April 2008 at 06:35 PM.
    Our job is to live joyfully in this world of sorrows--Joseph Campbell

  36. #96

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grind View Post
    I've been reading the reviews on this site for six months, and while I have derived a great deal of knowledge from them, I have gotten far more relevant and tangible information from this book. Not to mention I've been laughing my ass off.

    These threads are revealing though, in that they expose a great deal of what I'd call
    "Basenotescentricity". Most of it appears pretentious at best, and I haven't seen one complaint in here that amounts to anything.

    More importantly, people who have come into their own power look for things they like, rather than clamoring (like little girls) about everything that displeases them.
    Your contribution would be more meaningful if you could explain in what way the guide provided you with more relevant and tangible information, including some illustrative examples.

    Perhaps you could also list some examples of what kind of commentary you consider to be pretentious and "not amounting to anything."

    Finally, as to the general tone of your contribution - guess you're still looking for that own power of yours ?!

    Anyway, welcome to basenotes.
    Last edited by the_good_life; 20th April 2008 at 07:47 PM.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  37. #97

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Good Morning everybody!

    Welcome to basenotes, Grind.

    Now for the topic at hand. Here are my thoughts.

    I find I am quite polarized with regard to this book. Some of it I find very informative & entertaining. Other parts of it I find downright snarky & mean-spirited. For example, I'm not at all surprised to discover that the Caron urn fragrances have been altered over the years but it was eye opening to read about it & have it spelled out in black & white. I was likewise surprised that Chanel & Guerlain had not made significant alterations to some of their star fragrances. (L'Huere Bleue, #5, Mitsouko in the parfum)

    I thought there was an uncalled for mean-spiritedness in the Mona di Orio reviews. It is obvious to me that the scents were not actually worn on skin (as were Mitsouko & L'Huere Bleue & Tommy Girl) but rather sprayed on paper & sniffed briefly. Nor was any research done into MdO's philosophy, which matches the authors "scent as art" premise. Dr. Turin & Ms. Sanchez treatment of Ms. Di Orio is beyond unprofessional & borders on slanderous. IMO. I have no affiliation with MdO or her company. I've met her, spoken with her, worn her fragrances quite happily but that is all.

    In addition, I find the reviews of Lorenzo Villoresi surprising. Particularly in light of the fact that Mr. Villoresi was awarded the prestigious François Coty Prize in 2006. The following is quoted from The Scented Salamander: "The Coty prize jury explained their choice as one that "...pays homage to a great creator and celebrates through him independent creators who are attempting to preserve the tradition of the great noses of the past".

    In addition, I find the overwhelmingly positive reviews of the Estee Lauder Company fragrances a bit suspect. Doesn't Dr. Turin work for flexitral? Isn't Estee Lauder a client of flexitral? How many of the scents reviewed in The Guide contain molecules/ingredients either he or his company worked on, contributed to, consulted on...you get the gist.

    I don't really care if they did, I just think, that with the goal of being completely fair, full disclosure should be given. i.e.: I really like this one because I helped create the molecule that went into making it so unique...that sort of thing.

    Even on Make up Alley, people now list things like "No Affiliation". Affiliations do color our views, we're human we can't help it. It's ok; just let us know up front, so we can consider it.

    Also, I think knowing how they tested different scents would be helpful. I.e. These were tested on paper only & reviewed, these were tested on paper & then on skin, these were tested on skin. All of us know scent changes in different environments. If not all of the scents were tested the same way, then they aren't an "apples to apples" comparison. That's ok but you just need to tell us.

    Overall, I find the book a mish mash. I'm disturbed by the things I mentioned. I certainly won't use this book as a way to select fragrances for myself. Nothing beats going & trying the actual product on my own skin a couple of times. If I love it & I can afford it, I'll most likely purchase it.
    Last edited by Red_Hot_Mama; 21st April 2008 at 04:08 PM.
    Current Favorites: #5 edt, #19 edt & parfum - Chanel, FRACAS - Robert Piguet, A Taste of Heaven - By Killian, Apres L'Ondee- Guerlain, LUX & Carnation - Mona di Orio, Une Rose - Frederick Malle, Kiki - Vero Kern, Bois de Violette & Sarrasins - Serge Lutens

  38. #98

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Hot_Mama View Post

    In addition, I find the overwhelmingly positive reviews of the Estee Lauder Company fragrances a bit suspect. Doesn't Dr. Turin work for flexitral? Isn't Estee Lauder a client of flexitral? How many of the scents reviewed in The Guide contain molecules/ingredients either he or his company worked on, contributed to, consulted on...you get the gist.
    FYI: NONE

  39. #99

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by luca turin View Post
    FYI: NONE
    Thank you, that's good to know.
    Current Favorites: #5 edt, #19 edt & parfum - Chanel, FRACAS - Robert Piguet, A Taste of Heaven - By Killian, Apres L'Ondee- Guerlain, LUX & Carnation - Mona di Orio, Une Rose - Frederick Malle, Kiki - Vero Kern, Bois de Violette & Sarrasins - Serge Lutens

  40. #100

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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    And then there are those people that have enough self awareness to recognize that they've just done what they've accused others of and wisely choose the delete, instead of the save key.
    These are observations, not accusations. It's such a reactionary group. I understand that being reactionary can be the flip side of the sensitivity and self-confidence (in males) to even explore fragrances. A person is either going to step back and take in all the information (get what is to be gotten from the book without taking it personally) or they're not. Depends on the ability to assimilate information objectively. The book is not a conversation. It's a critique given by highly experienced and talented people (the fact that it's colorful keeps it interesting).

    Quote Originally Posted by kbe View Post
    Other than the technical and personal factual information revealed, the opiinions of fragrances reviewed in the book are, just as those voiced in Basenotes Reviews and Threads, personal opinions--nothing more. And isn't this site just the right place to express such opinions? Yours, for example?

    I tend to take all opinions of fragrances with a grain of salt until I personally try the fragrance myself. Then I am happy to offer others my own personal opinion (which, taken as just that, is always 100% correct--for me).
    Good for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Your contribution would be more meaningful if you could explain in what way the guide provided you with more relevant and tangible information, including some illustrative examples.

    Perhaps you could also list some examples of what kind of commentary you consider to be pretentious and "not amounting to anything."

    Finally, as to the general tone of your contribution - guess you're still looking for that own power of yours ?!

    Anyway, welcome to basenotes.
    Regarding your request for examples from the book, I recommend reading it cover to cover before forming an opinion. When you go to an art museum, as soon as you see a work that you don't like, do you turn and leave the museum, trashing the museum verbally as you exit? It sounds like the book is being read in fragments, like a magazine, and taken personally. Maybe anger is circumventing an ability to appreciate the experience behind it.

    This is not a class. I'm not a teacher. For me to explain my observations about Basenotes' dervived opinions would just perpetuate more reactivity and be of no use.

    Even your comment in which you guess about my personal power indicates that you totally missed my drift. This is not personal, it's observational.
    Last edited by Grind; 21st April 2008 at 07:01 PM.

  41. #101

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Sorry, no time for trolls.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  42. #102
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    A recent trans-continental flight gave me a chance to read Luca Turin and Tanya Sanchez’s Perfumes: The Guide from cover to cover. I did so with much curiosity, amusement, occasional brief indignation, and more than a few grains of salt. The book is almost exactly what I expected: entertaining, enlightening, and from my particular perspective, only partly useful as an actual guide to buying fragrances.

    The entertainment value alone is worth the cost of admission. Anyone who’s read Luca Turin’s articles or blog knows that he’s knowledgeable, witty, and above all, opinionated. Turin is given to sweeping, hyperbolic declarations, and it’s hard to tell whether they arise out of a desire to provoke the reader, to entertain the author himself, or simply out of supreme arrogance. (With which Turin’s writing has always been well-stocked.) My guess is that it’s all three. Some will find these proclamations offensive, but they get chuckles out of me – even when they’re skewering one of my favorite scents.

    The book opens with both author’s informative and thought provoking mediations on the history of perfume, fragrance and gender, and the sorry state contemporary perfumery. The FAQ that follows is a fine example of applied common sense, and welcome in a field that’s rife with pseudoscience and mythology.

    The reviews themselves constitute anything from multi-page essays to Turin’s trademark dismissive one-liners. (In all fairness, Sanchez has a way with the withering bon mot herself.) In only a few cases do both authors review the same scent. These dual reviews are reserved for those fragrances to which Turin and Sanchez have divergent reactions. Given Turin’s penchant for condescension, the choice and treatment of scents reviewed is admirably equitable. Turin and Sanchez are just as likely to praise a commonplace “drugstore fragrance” as to pan a revered niche offering. With one or two exceptions, coverage is limited to scents in current production. That means we do not get to hear what Turin and Sanchez think of Havana, Ungaro I and II, or Patou pour Homme. Coverage of niche houses focuses on the larger and more popular lines. L’Artisan Parfumeur, Serge Lutens, and Maitre Parfumeur and Gantier are all well covered, but you won’t find Montale, Il Profumo, or Mazzolari. Don’t even bother looking for soloists like Dawn Spencer Hurwitz or Mandy Aftel.

    I must shamefully confess to feeling a bit smug when the authors dismember a well thought of fragrance that I’ve never cared for (Miel de Bois, Millesime Imperial), and equally stung when they take aim at one of my favorites (Bahiana, Chene). This is not a book for thin skinned fragrance lovers. Prestigious scents, even whole houses, are dismissed in harsh, if often humorous, terms. Creed zealots and fans of Caron or Lorenzo Villoresi: you have been warned!

    What limits the book’s usefulness to me as a shopping guide is the authors’ tendency to weight their reviews – especially the negative ones - more toward opinion than to descriptive analysis. “Death by jasmine,” the sole commentary on the poorly reviewed A la Nuit, is not descriptive analysis, nor is it a jot of use to anyone but a jasmine-hater. Readers secure enough to trust their own noses and preferences would benefit from at least some description when shopping for a scent. When a fragrance gets slammed, I want to know why. Even the brief comments offered in Turin’s negative review of Mandarine-Mandarin - which include “Deeply strange, quite intense, and not particularly wearable” - would have sent me begging for a sample had I not already owned and loved the scent. There are also a few minor editorial fluffs to be found. The most troubling are where the one-to-five star rating on a scent does not match the text of its review.

    Where Perfumes: The Guide serves me most, besides in its humor, is in piquing my curiosity about scents that I might otherwise have missed. Without Sanchez and Turin, my confessed penchant for fragrance snobbery would have kept me from discovering a gem like Lauder’s Beyond Paradise for Men. For this alone I would welcome Perfumes: The Guide. The added value of Sanchez’s and Turin’s knowledge and humor make the book indispensable to anyone with a serious interest in personal fragrances.

  43. #103

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Vibert, thanks for an excellent review. I'm going to have fun with this book.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  44. #104
    DON'T DRINK AND DRESS

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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    I wonder why Turin/Sanchez chose to review four second tier Claude Montana fragrances (the lackluster ubercitrus Montana Homme (sic) is one) instead of the newly re-issued and far more interesting red-boxed Montana Parfum d'Homme? I would have loved to have read their opinions of it.
    Last edited by kbe; 21st April 2008 at 11:44 PM.
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  45. #105
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by kbe View Post
    I wonder why Turin/Sanchez chose to review four second tier Claude Montana fragrances (the lackluster ubercitrus Montana Homme (sic) is one) instead of the newly re-issued and far more interesting red-boxed Montana Parfum d'Homme? I would have loved to have read their opinions of it.
    He reviewed the original positively in the 94 guide.

    In this book he reviewed Montana's Parfum de Peau (made by Edouard Flechier), an outstanding fragrance and probably the best from that line.

    --------------------------------------

    Besides being highly entertaining and a wealth of information that won't be found anywhere else, it's an excellent guide for a variety of consumers.

    It's a monumental accomplishment, regardless of the nitpicking by some of the readers. I figure most of the men are only reading the reviews of masculine fragrances, and while there's a lot to find, one also needs to read the feminines in order to get much of the best information.

    It's deeply satisfying on all accounts. Turin always provides a much needed refreshing approach to all of this, and Sanchez's contribution just makes it even better.
    Last edited by pluran; 23rd April 2008 at 01:33 PM.

  46. #106

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Vibert ~ I enjoyed reading your aptly written review of Perfumes The Guide. You have an eloquent manner of expression! Thanks!

  47. #107

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    vibert!

    very nice review. i came here with the intention to ask 'is it worth the price of admission' but you had already provided a perfect response. i found the book at a local wal-books but before pulling the trigger (just under $30) i thought it wise to find out if the humor value alone was worth it.

    cheers and thanks again,
    ryan

  48. #108

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    I purchased my book at Borders (full price, no coupon) and it was worth every penney. The Guide is so entertaining , and I am not easily entertained. If you don't want a subjective book about perfume keep looking though. I think we could continue to discuss ad nauseum what did not get reviewed. I prefer to thank the authors for a witty,entertaining and thought provoking read about a topic near and dear to my heart.

  49. #109

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vibert View Post
    The added value of Sanchez’s and Turin’s knowledge and humor make the book indispensable to anyone with a serious interest in personal fragrances.
    Nice last words in a first comprehensive appraisal, and just in time! I had been waiting for something like this from within Basenotes. I received my own copy just now, and am too excited to be able to enjoy much of what’s there. The topic is huge, and it couldn’t possibly be covered on 400 pages. I know that. So I will try and find the borders and limitations first, absorb more news about changed fragrances, and overcome disappointments when not all of my holy grails find mercy with the jurors (I trust I needn’t talk to my Doctor afterwards :-)). Then I can enjoy what’s there. Even if the book contained five hundred ‘best’ fragrances only, and even if I fell blind tomorrow, I am grateful it’s out and will be discussed. This is the only critical guide there is now. I think everybody in the industry needs to read this book as well, and it would certainly help matters if those gentlemen also heard an echo of Perfumes:The Guide from the millions of perfume lovers and consumers across the globe.

    Dr.Turin, dear Ms Sanchez
    : how about another blog, even if for a summer only ?
    Last edited by narcus; 24th April 2008 at 07:23 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  50. #110

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Great review Vibert!

    This book is a fantastic resource for perfume lovers. The reviews are the most informative and interesting thoughts about fragrances I've ever seen. I've reread the book now at least once and find I go back to study their opinions on many scents. You just can not capture all the information on one read through. I find the historical and technical insights from Luca Turin to be a unique and precious resource of information that I have yet to see anywhere else in print. Yes I find I am searching out many of their well reviewed fragrances for my own trial.

    Initially, I turned to see how they reviewed my favorites and was very put off by their trashing of many that I know are really good. I also recognized their personal prejudice in some of their overly positive reviews too. But even allowing for these variances, their reviews are incredibly informative and instructive. I have learned so much from reading the reviews that I am amazed that they were able process the sheer volume of fragrances that are discussed. Most of the reviews are objective and seem to be accurate, but along with their opinions they offer lots of history, technical information and perspective. The nature of the process is all about opinion and this must be allowed for.

    An invaluable resource! And its really funny too - actually is often hilarious.

    Prejudices? Yes they don't like Creed, Villoresi, or Le Labo (Le Labo refused them samples) - some general negative prejudices - so subtract stars on these. They favor with extra stars the work of certain perfumers no matter which house they are employed by at the time. Luca seems to review positively any fragrance he believes has accomplished a particularly difficult feat of chemical combination or an artisticly creative use of ingredients - even if the outcome is not particularly a wonderful scent - extra stars.

    But overall the prejudices do not account for more than 5% of the reviews listed as far as I can tell. That leaves tons of very informative, insightful, witty and illuminating fragrance information. I've reread it several times and always land on things I missed the first time through. There is so much information that you really can not comprehend it all by reading through. It's best digested in little bits as a resource to assist and add to our research of new fragrance discoveries.

    Fantastic Book!
    Last edited by Buzzlepuff; 22nd April 2008 at 01:49 PM.

  51. #111

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Thanks for the great review, Vibert. You sold me on the book.

  52. #112

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by foetidus View Post
    Thanks for the great review, Vibert. You sold me on the book.
    Foetidus, when's your book coming out? Your reviews easily stand up next to Turin's and in many cases, I find them more informative and descriptive. Keep up the good work!
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

    Egon Schiele - Self-Potrait


    My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux

    http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/2976

  53. #113

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Turin seems to fall into that category of loud, closed-minded fragrance lovers who are always desiring old-fashioned perfumey perfumes - big, eccentric, aldehydic, and powdery. They dominate these fragrance boards, because they're always declaring that the classics represent the true definition of "GREAT perfumes!" - and they state this as FACT. And, hey, if you don't agree with this, you're not a REAL perfume lover, get it?!

    No surprise with Turin's book that Creed is a target of scorn, as it's long been to the Classic Powder & Aldehydes lovers. Most Creeds don't resemble the likes of Joy, Shalimar or Chanel No. 5 (the kind of scents which, incidentally, a large segment of the population find stinging to the nostrils, allergy triggers and/or personally intrusive - but try convincing the classic perfume elitists of this). And, of course, the one Creed which DOES resemble their favorite classics, Angelique Encens, gets declared "the only great fragrance that Creed has ever made" for - of course - its sweet, strong powder accord.

    Now, while Creed sales tactics are indeed laugh-inducing, I didn't find the media focus on a Love In White review to be funny, or fair. Love in White is Creed's #1 best seller, and while I'm sure a few purchases have been made by men for their SO, most of these bottles were probably sold to women buying for themselves, because they LIKE the scent (since, at Creed prices, it's not likely to be an impulse buy). Unfortunately, the uninformed public won't understand this point. Neither will they understand that are plenty of quality perfume brands to discover that fall somewhere in-between Guerlain and celebrity scents. Instead they hear about these snarky reviews ripping a number of scents/companies to shreds for, in actuality, not sharing the qualities of classic perfumey perfumes. For most potential customers, that would probably be considered a GOOD point, but it's a point that's lost amidst all the cult surrounding this book and its authors.

  54. #114
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigers1901 View Post
    Turin seems to fall into that category...
    "Seems to..."

    Wow, it that ever inaccurate. Luca Turin is well beyond being categorized, and the book is co-authored by Tania Sanchez.

    And you're way off on his Creed preferences. Angelique Encens received 3 stars and was summed up as, "...a fairly conventional, straightforward amber oriental...". The Creed he thinks most of and assigned 4 stars to is Green Irish Tweed, which was actually made by Pierre Bourdon.

    Assumptions are the mother of all f*ck-ups. Try reading the book, and perhaps your perceptions of him (and many fragrances) will be realigned.
    Last edited by pluran; 24th April 2008 at 02:56 AM.

  55. #115

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Sounds like she did read the book, since her assessment of it is so spot-on and she's citing specific reviews. Talk about making assumptions...

    Sorry, reading the book is not going to convert everyone into smug, snarky Creed-basher.
    Last edited by strifeknot; 23rd April 2008 at 02:08 PM.

  56. #116

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigers1901 View Post
    Turin seems to fall into that category of loud, closed-minded fragrance lovers who are always desiring old-fashioned perfumey perfumes - big, eccentric, aldehydic, and powdery. They dominate these fragrance boards, because they're always declaring that the classics represent the true definition of "GREAT perfumes!" - and they state this as FACT. And, hey, if you don't agree with this, you're not a REAL perfume lover, get it?!
    So you personally know M. Turin, and this is how you have come to make a judgment-call in regards to him? With such a sweeping statement I would be surprised to find out you were not his best friend; how else could you be so on the mark as to 'who' he is, and 'what' he stands for. You are guilty of the same crime, you accuse him of.
    As far as scents, he has his opinions, and beliefs, hopefully they will make people think about what they choose to wear (fragrance wise). It just proves the point, each of us has individual likes and dislikes; one person's piss, is another's golden nectar. This is life. Are people complete morons and follow a review of a product as if it came from above? some are, and some are not; those who are will live and [hopefully] learn.
    As for Creed; I have many scents by them (feel free to peruse my wardrobe) but many of their scents I feel smell horrific, but that is my opinion. I, personally, would not even dream of using "Love in White" to freshen my bathroom, nor my cellar. I would not even desire to smell it in a public restroom. Is it a hideous fragrance? to me it is, but to many others it is not. Would I be able to critique it un-biasedly? most honestly no. I feel it is not a scent I could find much redeeming qualities in, but that is my take on it.
    As far as classic parfumery-v-modern parfumery, it is the same as the ongoing question of classic art-v-modern art. The truest statement I have ever heard on that battle is, with the old masters, you look and you experience, with modern art you have to look for the meaning/message.
    What you said about the classics stinging the nose, well are you not being a little biased? even Matisse, and Picasso looked to the old masters with awe. I feel the reason many people say this about the classics, could be, the world we inhabit now has become this super shiny squeaky-clean place, and people want scents that resemble that or they like things they can categorize, i.e. smells like a forest/old cathedral/incense/vodka/violette/smoke/mhyrre/frankincense. When one smells No 5 from Chanel, most people can not find all the nuances, so they will say 'powdery' and leave it at that, but there is so much more to it. It has a sparkle to it, it has a slight freshness slightly shadowed by a morning haze, it has depth, but it also feels the need to soar; it is very complex, and that is what makes it interesting.
    And also, one can be a fragrance lover, without being a savant. Fragrances released these days are not creative feats of fancy, they are scents that will appeal to the broadest market. That is what makes them different than ones from the past.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  57. #117
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by strifeknot View Post
    ...Creed...
    That tells me everything I need to know.
    Last edited by pluran; 23rd April 2008 at 03:11 PM.

  58. #118

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    I spent plenty of time in my local bookstore last weekend reading through this book. I don't feel it's worth paying money for. I'm not impressed in any way with Turin's prose, attitude or taste in perfume. The perfume industry and economy are in sorry shape right now, so how do snobbery and nastiness improve matters any? But I'm not allowed to question those things, right, without being branded a stupid, clueless consumer? Yes . . a cult it is.

    ETA: Thank you for these defensive posts. Mr. Turin would be very proud of them. They confirm everything I was writing of above. So, Mr. Turin has taught you to recognize that I don't appreciate art and nuances in perfume, that I make harsh judgments and quick assumptions, that it's unsophisticated for me to care about the personal space of people around me or to give consideration to the fact that aldehydes, in certain concentrations, may make myself and others physically ill, or that my post was about loving Creed (it most definitely WASN'T). It was primarily about the attitude of "the choir" that Mr. Turin preaches to, and you both displayed that in spades.
    Last edited by tigers1901; 23rd April 2008 at 02:50 PM.

  59. #119

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigers1901 View Post
    The perfume industry and economy are in sorry shape right now, so how do snobbery and nastiness improve matters any?
    If the perfume industry is in dire shape, I wish someone would tell the folks at; l'Artisan, Serge Lutens, Le Labo, Creed, etc. Because their prices are becoming criminal. I went out browsing this week-end past, for the first time in forever, and I was astounded by the prices of fragrances. l'Artisan used to be much less pricey when I acquired all of the scents, and poor Serge Lutens seems to be hitting the Absinthe, $120 for 50 ml.
    As far as Creed, it is in a class by itself; sorry to say it is kind of cult, which I am guilty of visiting.
    At htis point in time No 5 Chanel, Shalimar, and Joy are all bargains, specially when compared to a company such as La Labo, or Lutens, so there is really not so much prestige there anymore.
    But you do have a right to your opinions, and the same holds true for M. Turin.
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by tigers1901 View Post
    ETA: Thank you for these defensive posts. Mr. Turin would be very proud of them. They confirm everything I was writing of above. So, Mr. Turin has taught you to recognize that I don't appreciate art and nuances in perfume, that I make harsh judgments and quick assumptions, that it's unsophisticated for me to care about the personal space of people around me or to give consideration to the fact that aldehydes, in certain concentrations, may make myself and others physically ill, or that my post was about loving Creed (it most definitely WASN'T). It was primarily about the attitude of "the choir" that Mr. Turin preaches to, and you both displayed that in spades.
    Well surely I am not influenced by M. Turin, Roja Dove could tell you that I am quite the opinionated person (he knew that the moment he met me around 10 years ago), or a few of the other parfumeurs I met back in France who were amazed by my candor, and ways of expression. But it will always be a free-for-all if someone agrees with a well known figure in the field, how did you say it 'the choir', but those who disagree are the justified victims of a witch-hunt by us 'snobs'. P-L-E-A-S-E
    I defend M. Turin because I feel he has a right to say what he wants; he was approached to write the book, he did not go looking for it to happen. Furthermore, I do not agree with all his reviews; "Beyond Paradise" still eludes me, but it is his opinion.
    So with that said, enjoy your day.
    Last edited by Brielle87; 23rd April 2008 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  60. #120

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    That tells me everything I need to know.
    Does it? What a condescending, intellectually lazy, knee-jerk reaction.
    Last edited by strifeknot; 23rd April 2008 at 03:37 PM.

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