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  1. #91

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy View Post
    What is his infatuation with Estee Lauder? I've yet to try Lauder for Men (where to find this?), but all others I've tried were mediocre at best.
    I agree, in space, no one can hear me scream: Estee Lauder has 10 five star fragrances, WTF!!???????????

  2. #92

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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy View Post
    What is his infatuation with Estee Lauder? I've yet to try Lauder for Men (where to find this?), but all others I've tried were mediocre at best.
    Direct:
    http://www.esteelauder.com/templates...CT_ID=PROD1888

  3. #93

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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    I've been reading the reviews on this site for six months, and while I have derived a great deal of knowledge from them, I have gotten far more relevant and tangible information from this book. Not to mention I've been laughing my ass off.

    These threads are revealing though, in that they expose a great deal of what I'd call
    "Basenotescentricity". Most of it appears pretentious at best, and I haven't seen one complaint in here that amounts to anything.

    More importantly, people who have come into their own power look for things they like, rather than clamoring (like little girls) about everything that displeases them.
    Last edited by Grind; 20th April 2008 at 02:06 PM.

  4. #94

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grind View Post
    More importantly, people who have come into their own power look for things they like, rather than clamoring (like little girls) about everything that displeases them.
    And then there are those people that have enough self awareness to recognize that they've just done what they've accused others of and wisely choose the delete, instead of the save key.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 20th April 2008 at 07:32 PM.

  5. #95
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grind View Post
    I've been reading the reviews on this site for six months, and while I have derived a great deal of knowledge from them, I have gotten far more relevant and tangible information from this book. Not to mention I've been laughing my ass off.

    These threads are revealing though, in that they expose a great deal of what I'd call
    "Basenotescentricity". Most of it appears pretentious at best, and I haven't seen one complaint in here that amounts to anything.

    More importantly, people who have come into their own power look for things they like, rather than clamoring (like little girls) about everything that displeases them.
    Other than the technical and personal factual information revealed, the opiinions of fragrances reviewed in the book are, just as those voiced in Basenotes Reviews and Threads, personal opinions--nothing more. And isn't this site just the right place to express such opinions? Yours, for example?

    I tend to take all opinions of fragrances with a grain of salt until I personally try the fragrance myself. Then I am happy to offer others my own personal opinion (which, taken as just that, is always 100% correct--for me).
    Last edited by kbe; 20th April 2008 at 07:35 PM.
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  6. #96

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grind View Post
    I've been reading the reviews on this site for six months, and while I have derived a great deal of knowledge from them, I have gotten far more relevant and tangible information from this book. Not to mention I've been laughing my ass off.

    These threads are revealing though, in that they expose a great deal of what I'd call
    "Basenotescentricity". Most of it appears pretentious at best, and I haven't seen one complaint in here that amounts to anything.

    More importantly, people who have come into their own power look for things they like, rather than clamoring (like little girls) about everything that displeases them.
    Your contribution would be more meaningful if you could explain in what way the guide provided you with more relevant and tangible information, including some illustrative examples.

    Perhaps you could also list some examples of what kind of commentary you consider to be pretentious and "not amounting to anything."

    Finally, as to the general tone of your contribution - guess you're still looking for that own power of yours ?!

    Anyway, welcome to basenotes.
    Last edited by the_good_life; 20th April 2008 at 08:47 PM.
    My Wardrobe
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  7. #97

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Good Morning everybody!

    Welcome to basenotes, Grind.

    Now for the topic at hand. Here are my thoughts.

    I find I am quite polarized with regard to this book. Some of it I find very informative & entertaining. Other parts of it I find downright snarky & mean-spirited. For example, I'm not at all surprised to discover that the Caron urn fragrances have been altered over the years but it was eye opening to read about it & have it spelled out in black & white. I was likewise surprised that Chanel & Guerlain had not made significant alterations to some of their star fragrances. (L'Huere Bleue, #5, Mitsouko in the parfum)

    I thought there was an uncalled for mean-spiritedness in the Mona di Orio reviews. It is obvious to me that the scents were not actually worn on skin (as were Mitsouko & L'Huere Bleue & Tommy Girl) but rather sprayed on paper & sniffed briefly. Nor was any research done into MdO's philosophy, which matches the authors "scent as art" premise. Dr. Turin & Ms. Sanchez treatment of Ms. Di Orio is beyond unprofessional & borders on slanderous. IMO. I have no affiliation with MdO or her company. I've met her, spoken with her, worn her fragrances quite happily but that is all.

    In addition, I find the reviews of Lorenzo Villoresi surprising. Particularly in light of the fact that Mr. Villoresi was awarded the prestigious François Coty Prize in 2006. The following is quoted from The Scented Salamander: "The Coty prize jury explained their choice as one that "...pays homage to a great creator and celebrates through him independent creators who are attempting to preserve the tradition of the great noses of the past".

    In addition, I find the overwhelmingly positive reviews of the Estee Lauder Company fragrances a bit suspect. Doesn't Dr. Turin work for flexitral? Isn't Estee Lauder a client of flexitral? How many of the scents reviewed in The Guide contain molecules/ingredients either he or his company worked on, contributed to, consulted on...you get the gist.

    I don't really care if they did, I just think, that with the goal of being completely fair, full disclosure should be given. i.e.: I really like this one because I helped create the molecule that went into making it so unique...that sort of thing.

    Even on Make up Alley, people now list things like "No Affiliation". Affiliations do color our views, we're human we can't help it. It's ok; just let us know up front, so we can consider it.

    Also, I think knowing how they tested different scents would be helpful. I.e. These were tested on paper only & reviewed, these were tested on paper & then on skin, these were tested on skin. All of us know scent changes in different environments. If not all of the scents were tested the same way, then they aren't an "apples to apples" comparison. That's ok but you just need to tell us.

    Overall, I find the book a mish mash. I'm disturbed by the things I mentioned. I certainly won't use this book as a way to select fragrances for myself. Nothing beats going & trying the actual product on my own skin a couple of times. If I love it & I can afford it, I'll most likely purchase it.
    Last edited by Red_Hot_Mama; 21st April 2008 at 05:08 PM.
    Current Favorites: #5 edt, #19 edt & parfum - Chanel, FRACAS - Robert Piguet, A Taste of Heaven - By Killian, Apres L'Ondee- Guerlain, LUX & Carnation - Mona di Orio, Une Rose - Frederick Malle, Kiki - Vero Kern, Bois de Violette & Sarrasins - Serge Lutens

  8. #98

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Hot_Mama View Post

    In addition, I find the overwhelmingly positive reviews of the Estee Lauder Company fragrances a bit suspect. Doesn't Dr. Turin work for flexitral? Isn't Estee Lauder a client of flexitral? How many of the scents reviewed in The Guide contain molecules/ingredients either he or his company worked on, contributed to, consulted on...you get the gist.
    FYI: NONE

  9. #99

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by luca turin View Post
    FYI: NONE
    Thank you, that's good to know.
    Current Favorites: #5 edt, #19 edt & parfum - Chanel, FRACAS - Robert Piguet, A Taste of Heaven - By Killian, Apres L'Ondee- Guerlain, LUX & Carnation - Mona di Orio, Une Rose - Frederick Malle, Kiki - Vero Kern, Bois de Violette & Sarrasins - Serge Lutens

  10. #100

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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    And then there are those people that have enough self awareness to recognize that they've just done what they've accused others of and wisely choose the delete, instead of the save key.
    These are observations, not accusations. It's such a reactionary group. I understand that being reactionary can be the flip side of the sensitivity and self-confidence (in males) to even explore fragrances. A person is either going to step back and take in all the information (get what is to be gotten from the book without taking it personally) or they're not. Depends on the ability to assimilate information objectively. The book is not a conversation. It's a critique given by highly experienced and talented people (the fact that it's colorful keeps it interesting).

    Quote Originally Posted by kbe View Post
    Other than the technical and personal factual information revealed, the opiinions of fragrances reviewed in the book are, just as those voiced in Basenotes Reviews and Threads, personal opinions--nothing more. And isn't this site just the right place to express such opinions? Yours, for example?

    I tend to take all opinions of fragrances with a grain of salt until I personally try the fragrance myself. Then I am happy to offer others my own personal opinion (which, taken as just that, is always 100% correct--for me).
    Good for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Your contribution would be more meaningful if you could explain in what way the guide provided you with more relevant and tangible information, including some illustrative examples.

    Perhaps you could also list some examples of what kind of commentary you consider to be pretentious and "not amounting to anything."

    Finally, as to the general tone of your contribution - guess you're still looking for that own power of yours ?!

    Anyway, welcome to basenotes.
    Regarding your request for examples from the book, I recommend reading it cover to cover before forming an opinion. When you go to an art museum, as soon as you see a work that you don't like, do you turn and leave the museum, trashing the museum verbally as you exit? It sounds like the book is being read in fragments, like a magazine, and taken personally. Maybe anger is circumventing an ability to appreciate the experience behind it.

    This is not a class. I'm not a teacher. For me to explain my observations about Basenotes' dervived opinions would just perpetuate more reactivity and be of no use.

    Even your comment in which you guess about my personal power indicates that you totally missed my drift. This is not personal, it's observational.
    Last edited by Grind; 21st April 2008 at 08:01 PM.

  11. #101

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Sorry, no time for trolls.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  12. #102
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    A recent trans-continental flight gave me a chance to read Luca Turin and Tanya Sanchez’s Perfumes: The Guide from cover to cover. I did so with much curiosity, amusement, occasional brief indignation, and more than a few grains of salt. The book is almost exactly what I expected: entertaining, enlightening, and from my particular perspective, only partly useful as an actual guide to buying fragrances.

    The entertainment value alone is worth the cost of admission. Anyone who’s read Luca Turin’s articles or blog knows that he’s knowledgeable, witty, and above all, opinionated. Turin is given to sweeping, hyperbolic declarations, and it’s hard to tell whether they arise out of a desire to provoke the reader, to entertain the author himself, or simply out of supreme arrogance. (With which Turin’s writing has always been well-stocked.) My guess is that it’s all three. Some will find these proclamations offensive, but they get chuckles out of me – even when they’re skewering one of my favorite scents.

    The book opens with both author’s informative and thought provoking mediations on the history of perfume, fragrance and gender, and the sorry state contemporary perfumery. The FAQ that follows is a fine example of applied common sense, and welcome in a field that’s rife with pseudoscience and mythology.

    The reviews themselves constitute anything from multi-page essays to Turin’s trademark dismissive one-liners. (In all fairness, Sanchez has a way with the withering bon mot herself.) In only a few cases do both authors review the same scent. These dual reviews are reserved for those fragrances to which Turin and Sanchez have divergent reactions. Given Turin’s penchant for condescension, the choice and treatment of scents reviewed is admirably equitable. Turin and Sanchez are just as likely to praise a commonplace “drugstore fragrance” as to pan a revered niche offering. With one or two exceptions, coverage is limited to scents in current production. That means we do not get to hear what Turin and Sanchez think of Havana, Ungaro I and II, or Patou pour Homme. Coverage of niche houses focuses on the larger and more popular lines. L’Artisan Parfumeur, Serge Lutens, and Maitre Parfumeur and Gantier are all well covered, but you won’t find Montale, Il Profumo, or Mazzolari. Don’t even bother looking for soloists like Dawn Spencer Hurwitz or Mandy Aftel.

    I must shamefully confess to feeling a bit smug when the authors dismember a well thought of fragrance that I’ve never cared for (Miel de Bois, Millesime Imperial), and equally stung when they take aim at one of my favorites (Bahiana, Chene). This is not a book for thin skinned fragrance lovers. Prestigious scents, even whole houses, are dismissed in harsh, if often humorous, terms. Creed zealots and fans of Caron or Lorenzo Villoresi: you have been warned!

    What limits the book’s usefulness to me as a shopping guide is the authors’ tendency to weight their reviews – especially the negative ones - more toward opinion than to descriptive analysis. “Death by jasmine,” the sole commentary on the poorly reviewed A la Nuit, is not descriptive analysis, nor is it a jot of use to anyone but a jasmine-hater. Readers secure enough to trust their own noses and preferences would benefit from at least some description when shopping for a scent. When a fragrance gets slammed, I want to know why. Even the brief comments offered in Turin’s negative review of Mandarine-Mandarin - which include “Deeply strange, quite intense, and not particularly wearable” - would have sent me begging for a sample had I not already owned and loved the scent. There are also a few minor editorial fluffs to be found. The most troubling are where the one-to-five star rating on a scent does not match the text of its review.

    Where Perfumes: The Guide serves me most, besides in its humor, is in piquing my curiosity about scents that I might otherwise have missed. Without Sanchez and Turin, my confessed penchant for fragrance snobbery would have kept me from discovering a gem like Lauder’s Beyond Paradise for Men. For this alone I would welcome Perfumes: The Guide. The added value of Sanchez’s and Turin’s knowledge and humor make the book indispensable to anyone with a serious interest in personal fragrances.

  13. #103

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Vibert, thanks for an excellent review. I'm going to have fun with this book.
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  14. #104
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    I wonder why Turin/Sanchez chose to review four second tier Claude Montana fragrances (the lackluster ubercitrus Montana Homme (sic) is one) instead of the newly re-issued and far more interesting red-boxed Montana Parfum d'Homme? I would have loved to have read their opinions of it.
    Last edited by kbe; 22nd April 2008 at 12:44 AM.
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  15. #105
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by kbe View Post
    I wonder why Turin/Sanchez chose to review four second tier Claude Montana fragrances (the lackluster ubercitrus Montana Homme (sic) is one) instead of the newly re-issued and far more interesting red-boxed Montana Parfum d'Homme? I would have loved to have read their opinions of it.
    He reviewed the original positively in the 94 guide.

    In this book he reviewed Montana's Parfum de Peau (made by Edouard Flechier), an outstanding fragrance and probably the best from that line.

    --------------------------------------

    Besides being highly entertaining and a wealth of information that won't be found anywhere else, it's an excellent guide for a variety of consumers.

    It's a monumental accomplishment, regardless of the nitpicking by some of the readers. I figure most of the men are only reading the reviews of masculine fragrances, and while there's a lot to find, one also needs to read the feminines in order to get much of the best information.

    It's deeply satisfying on all accounts. Turin always provides a much needed refreshing approach to all of this, and Sanchez's contribution just makes it even better.
    Last edited by pluran; 23rd April 2008 at 02:33 PM.

  16. #106
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Vibert ~ I enjoyed reading your aptly written review of Perfumes The Guide. You have an eloquent manner of expression! Thanks!

  17. #107

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    vibert!

    very nice review. i came here with the intention to ask 'is it worth the price of admission' but you had already provided a perfect response. i found the book at a local wal-books but before pulling the trigger (just under $30) i thought it wise to find out if the humor value alone was worth it.

    cheers and thanks again,
    ryan

  18. #108
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    I purchased my book at Borders (full price, no coupon) and it was worth every penney. The Guide is so entertaining , and I am not easily entertained. If you don't want a subjective book about perfume keep looking though. I think we could continue to discuss ad nauseum what did not get reviewed. I prefer to thank the authors for a witty,entertaining and thought provoking read about a topic near and dear to my heart.

  19. #109

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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vibert View Post
    The added value of Sanchez’s and Turin’s knowledge and humor make the book indispensable to anyone with a serious interest in personal fragrances.
    Nice last words in a first comprehensive appraisal, and just in time! I had been waiting for something like this from within Basenotes. I received my own copy just now, and am too excited to be able to enjoy much of what’s there. The topic is huge, and it couldn’t possibly be covered on 400 pages. I know that. So I will try and find the borders and limitations first, absorb more news about changed fragrances, and overcome disappointments when not all of my holy grails find mercy with the jurors (I trust I needn’t talk to my Doctor afterwards :-)). Then I can enjoy what’s there. Even if the book contained five hundred ‘best’ fragrances only, and even if I fell blind tomorrow, I am grateful it’s out and will be discussed. This is the only critical guide there is now. I think everybody in the industry needs to read this book as well, and it would certainly help matters if those gentlemen also heard an echo of Perfumes:The Guide from the millions of perfume lovers and consumers across the globe.

    Dr.Turin, dear Ms Sanchez
    : how about another blog, even if for a summer only ?
    Last edited by narcus; 24th April 2008 at 08:23 AM.
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  20. #110

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Great review Vibert!

    This book is a fantastic resource for perfume lovers. The reviews are the most informative and interesting thoughts about fragrances I've ever seen. I've reread the book now at least once and find I go back to study their opinions on many scents. You just can not capture all the information on one read through. I find the historical and technical insights from Luca Turin to be a unique and precious resource of information that I have yet to see anywhere else in print. Yes I find I am searching out many of their well reviewed fragrances for my own trial.

    Initially, I turned to see how they reviewed my favorites and was very put off by their trashing of many that I know are really good. I also recognized their personal prejudice in some of their overly positive reviews too. But even allowing for these variances, their reviews are incredibly informative and instructive. I have learned so much from reading the reviews that I am amazed that they were able process the sheer volume of fragrances that are discussed. Most of the reviews are objective and seem to be accurate, but along with their opinions they offer lots of history, technical information and perspective. The nature of the process is all about opinion and this must be allowed for.

    An invaluable resource! And its really funny too - actually is often hilarious.

    Prejudices? Yes they don't like Creed, Villoresi, or Le Labo (Le Labo refused them samples) - some general negative prejudices - so subtract stars on these. They favor with extra stars the work of certain perfumers no matter which house they are employed by at the time. Luca seems to review positively any fragrance he believes has accomplished a particularly difficult feat of chemical combination or an artisticly creative use of ingredients - even if the outcome is not particularly a wonderful scent - extra stars.

    But overall the prejudices do not account for more than 5% of the reviews listed as far as I can tell. That leaves tons of very informative, insightful, witty and illuminating fragrance information. I've reread it several times and always land on things I missed the first time through. There is so much information that you really can not comprehend it all by reading through. It's best digested in little bits as a resource to assist and add to our research of new fragrance discoveries.

    Fantastic Book!
    Last edited by Buzzlepuff; 22nd April 2008 at 02:49 PM.

  21. #111
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Thanks for the great review, Vibert. You sold me on the book.

  22. #112

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by foetidus View Post
    Thanks for the great review, Vibert. You sold me on the book.
    Foetidus, when's your book coming out? Your reviews easily stand up next to Turin's and in many cases, I find them more informative and descriptive. Keep up the good work!
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

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  23. #113

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Turin seems to fall into that category of loud, closed-minded fragrance lovers who are always desiring old-fashioned perfumey perfumes - big, eccentric, aldehydic, and powdery. They dominate these fragrance boards, because they're always declaring that the classics represent the true definition of "GREAT perfumes!" - and they state this as FACT. And, hey, if you don't agree with this, you're not a REAL perfume lover, get it?!

    No surprise with Turin's book that Creed is a target of scorn, as it's long been to the Classic Powder & Aldehydes lovers. Most Creeds don't resemble the likes of Joy, Shalimar or Chanel No. 5 (the kind of scents which, incidentally, a large segment of the population find stinging to the nostrils, allergy triggers and/or personally intrusive - but try convincing the classic perfume elitists of this). And, of course, the one Creed which DOES resemble their favorite classics, Angelique Encens, gets declared "the only great fragrance that Creed has ever made" for - of course - its sweet, strong powder accord.

    Now, while Creed sales tactics are indeed laugh-inducing, I didn't find the media focus on a Love In White review to be funny, or fair. Love in White is Creed's #1 best seller, and while I'm sure a few purchases have been made by men for their SO, most of these bottles were probably sold to women buying for themselves, because they LIKE the scent (since, at Creed prices, it's not likely to be an impulse buy). Unfortunately, the uninformed public won't understand this point. Neither will they understand that are plenty of quality perfume brands to discover that fall somewhere in-between Guerlain and celebrity scents. Instead they hear about these snarky reviews ripping a number of scents/companies to shreds for, in actuality, not sharing the qualities of classic perfumey perfumes. For most potential customers, that would probably be considered a GOOD point, but it's a point that's lost amidst all the cult surrounding this book and its authors.

  24. #114
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigers1901 View Post
    Turin seems to fall into that category...
    "Seems to..."

    Wow, it that ever inaccurate. Luca Turin is well beyond being categorized, and the book is co-authored by Tania Sanchez.

    And you're way off on his Creed preferences. Angelique Encens received 3 stars and was summed up as, "...a fairly conventional, straightforward amber oriental...". The Creed he thinks most of and assigned 4 stars to is Green Irish Tweed, which was actually made by Pierre Bourdon.

    Assumptions are the mother of all f*ck-ups. Try reading the book, and perhaps your perceptions of him (and many fragrances) will be realigned.
    Last edited by pluran; 24th April 2008 at 03:56 AM.

  25. #115

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Sounds like she did read the book, since her assessment of it is so spot-on and she's citing specific reviews. Talk about making assumptions...

    Sorry, reading the book is not going to convert everyone into smug, snarky Creed-basher.
    Last edited by strifeknot; 23rd April 2008 at 03:08 PM.

  26. #116
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigers1901 View Post
    Turin seems to fall into that category of loud, closed-minded fragrance lovers who are always desiring old-fashioned perfumey perfumes - big, eccentric, aldehydic, and powdery. They dominate these fragrance boards, because they're always declaring that the classics represent the true definition of "GREAT perfumes!" - and they state this as FACT. And, hey, if you don't agree with this, you're not a REAL perfume lover, get it?!
    So you personally know M. Turin, and this is how you have come to make a judgment-call in regards to him? With such a sweeping statement I would be surprised to find out you were not his best friend; how else could you be so on the mark as to 'who' he is, and 'what' he stands for. You are guilty of the same crime, you accuse him of.
    As far as scents, he has his opinions, and beliefs, hopefully they will make people think about what they choose to wear (fragrance wise). It just proves the point, each of us has individual likes and dislikes; one person's piss, is another's golden nectar. This is life. Are people complete morons and follow a review of a product as if it came from above? some are, and some are not; those who are will live and [hopefully] learn.
    As for Creed; I have many scents by them (feel free to peruse my wardrobe) but many of their scents I feel smell horrific, but that is my opinion. I, personally, would not even dream of using "Love in White" to freshen my bathroom, nor my cellar. I would not even desire to smell it in a public restroom. Is it a hideous fragrance? to me it is, but to many others it is not. Would I be able to critique it un-biasedly? most honestly no. I feel it is not a scent I could find much redeeming qualities in, but that is my take on it.
    As far as classic parfumery-v-modern parfumery, it is the same as the ongoing question of classic art-v-modern art. The truest statement I have ever heard on that battle is, with the old masters, you look and you experience, with modern art you have to look for the meaning/message.
    What you said about the classics stinging the nose, well are you not being a little biased? even Matisse, and Picasso looked to the old masters with awe. I feel the reason many people say this about the classics, could be, the world we inhabit now has become this super shiny squeaky-clean place, and people want scents that resemble that or they like things they can categorize, i.e. smells like a forest/old cathedral/incense/vodka/violette/smoke/mhyrre/frankincense. When one smells No 5 from Chanel, most people can not find all the nuances, so they will say 'powdery' and leave it at that, but there is so much more to it. It has a sparkle to it, it has a slight freshness slightly shadowed by a morning haze, it has depth, but it also feels the need to soar; it is very complex, and that is what makes it interesting.
    And also, one can be a fragrance lover, without being a savant. Fragrances released these days are not creative feats of fancy, they are scents that will appeal to the broadest market. That is what makes them different than ones from the past.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  27. #117
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by strifeknot View Post
    ...Creed...
    That tells me everything I need to know.
    Last edited by pluran; 23rd April 2008 at 04:11 PM.

  28. #118

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    I spent plenty of time in my local bookstore last weekend reading through this book. I don't feel it's worth paying money for. I'm not impressed in any way with Turin's prose, attitude or taste in perfume. The perfume industry and economy are in sorry shape right now, so how do snobbery and nastiness improve matters any? But I'm not allowed to question those things, right, without being branded a stupid, clueless consumer? Yes . . a cult it is.

    ETA: Thank you for these defensive posts. Mr. Turin would be very proud of them. They confirm everything I was writing of above. So, Mr. Turin has taught you to recognize that I don't appreciate art and nuances in perfume, that I make harsh judgments and quick assumptions, that it's unsophisticated for me to care about the personal space of people around me or to give consideration to the fact that aldehydes, in certain concentrations, may make myself and others physically ill, or that my post was about loving Creed (it most definitely WASN'T). It was primarily about the attitude of "the choir" that Mr. Turin preaches to, and you both displayed that in spades.
    Last edited by tigers1901; 23rd April 2008 at 03:50 PM.

  29. #119
    Brielle87's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigers1901 View Post
    The perfume industry and economy are in sorry shape right now, so how do snobbery and nastiness improve matters any?
    If the perfume industry is in dire shape, I wish someone would tell the folks at; l'Artisan, Serge Lutens, Le Labo, Creed, etc. Because their prices are becoming criminal. I went out browsing this week-end past, for the first time in forever, and I was astounded by the prices of fragrances. l'Artisan used to be much less pricey when I acquired all of the scents, and poor Serge Lutens seems to be hitting the Absinthe, $120 for 50 ml.
    As far as Creed, it is in a class by itself; sorry to say it is kind of cult, which I am guilty of visiting.
    At htis point in time No 5 Chanel, Shalimar, and Joy are all bargains, specially when compared to a company such as La Labo, or Lutens, so there is really not so much prestige there anymore.
    But you do have a right to your opinions, and the same holds true for M. Turin.
    --------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by tigers1901 View Post
    ETA: Thank you for these defensive posts. Mr. Turin would be very proud of them. They confirm everything I was writing of above. So, Mr. Turin has taught you to recognize that I don't appreciate art and nuances in perfume, that I make harsh judgments and quick assumptions, that it's unsophisticated for me to care about the personal space of people around me or to give consideration to the fact that aldehydes, in certain concentrations, may make myself and others physically ill, or that my post was about loving Creed (it most definitely WASN'T). It was primarily about the attitude of "the choir" that Mr. Turin preaches to, and you both displayed that in spades.
    Well surely I am not influenced by M. Turin, Roja Dove could tell you that I am quite the opinionated person (he knew that the moment he met me around 10 years ago), or a few of the other parfumeurs I met back in France who were amazed by my candor, and ways of expression. But it will always be a free-for-all if someone agrees with a well known figure in the field, how did you say it 'the choir', but those who disagree are the justified victims of a witch-hunt by us 'snobs'. P-L-E-A-S-E
    I defend M. Turin because I feel he has a right to say what he wants; he was approached to write the book, he did not go looking for it to happen. Furthermore, I do not agree with all his reviews; "Beyond Paradise" still eludes me, but it is his opinion.
    So with that said, enjoy your day.
    Last edited by Brielle87; 23rd April 2008 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  30. #120

    Default Re: New Luca Turin book - your thoughts? Here are mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    That tells me everything I need to know.
    Does it? What a condescending, intellectually lazy, knee-jerk reaction.
    Last edited by strifeknot; 23rd April 2008 at 04:37 PM.

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