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  1. #1

    Default Luca Turin and Creed

    I just got Luca Turin's new book. I'm in agreement with him more often than not, and even when we differ I appreciate his perspective, but the one exception to that is his apparent loathing of all things Creed. Does anyone have any history or background information about this? It's one thing to trash a fragrance or two from each house, but to trash an entire house? Even Bond No. 9 gets more even-handed treatment. It's surprising, disappointing, and therefore suspicious in an otherwise wonderful reference.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Cut him some slack... he's got the right to be judgemental without any plausible reason. He also has the right to like a crapy fragrance without any good reason.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Realize its one guy's opinion, and the book's strength is its no-holds-barred opinionated treatment of fragrances.

    I suppose the reasons he was critical of Creed's products in general are what is important (my copy is on the way). But I would be OK with "Luca Turin does not like Creed's stuff" - even if I thought Creed was wonderful, simply because frank reviews are so rare!

    Incidentally he does not like Caleche, and Estee - and my mother adores both - though she really found the whole guidebook a real good one anyway.
    Last edited by Bromo33333; 11th April 2008 at 04:58 PM.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Let's say that Turin hating Creed leads to less people buying Creed, therefore you are more unique when you use Creed. This can only be good for you.
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  5. #5

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    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by wrfritsche View Post
    but the one exception to that is his apparent loathing of all things Creed. .
    People in perceived high places like to bring others down to their level. It doesn't mean diddly squat. You can't argue with success.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    As I pointed out just recently on a Turin thread my sense is he adheres to a "classic" French view of perfume construction which leads to a somewhat prejudiced view both of eccentric "dilettantes" such as Villoresi and what he would consider the simplistic creations of Creed. His loss in both cases, I believe.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    What is the title of the book?
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by samplermike View Post
    People in perceived high places like to bring others down to their level. It doesn't mean diddly squat. You can't argue with success.
    Which has given us such fine contributions as Microsoft Windows, Paris Hilton, James Blunt, the Hummer, Cliff's Notes, and Adam Sandler.

    You might actually read what the book has to say about the Creed frags before engaging in idle speculation or denunciation. Turin considers GIT a "truly great fragrance." for example - credit where credit is due - and if he's less enthusiastic about much of the rest of the line, he's fairly articulate on why that's the case.
    Last edited by Morgan Creek; 11th April 2008 at 06:03 PM.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    I knew this topic would be started eventually...although he's always been fairly vocal about not loving Creed.

    Take it for what its worth...a review is a subjective thing, like it or lump it.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    What's the jist of his criticism of Creed?
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    I like much of what I've read from Turin because of the entertainment value, but I think he likes to be shockingly arbitrary at times. I happen to really enjoy Creed's style of perfumery-- it doesn't bother me that Turin's not on board-- he's professed his love for some real pieces of crap now and again, so it doesn't mean much to me. I still like to read perfume reviews period. I went to the bookstore yesterday and alas, they didn't have the book in stock. I do plan on getting it soon as I'm sure I won't be able to put it down, even as he shoots arrows through my favorite workhorses, and blows kisses to some real slags.

    And did he really give Mechant Loup one star? That's criminal.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR View Post
    What's the jist of his criticism of Creed?
    The entry for Millésime Impérial offers a brief précis of his case: from a purely technical perspective, Creed's apparently overblown claims about its use of naturals, which he characterizes as only slightly above average. From a marketing perspective, its fugly packaging and its perhaps dubious claims about the gang of crowned heads who have been its ecstatic customers. That's a very general overview; see the particular fragrances for assessments.

    Obviously, that represents a particular aesthetic that not everyone will share - nor is everyone meant to.
    Last edited by Morgan Creek; 11th April 2008 at 06:16 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    one star for Mechant Loup?
    that... makes no sense. Of course, I've got the book in the mail to me now, though

  14. #14

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Creek View Post
    The entry for Millésime Impérial offers a brief précis of his case: from a purely technical perspective, Creed's apparently overblown claims about its use of naturals, which he characterizes as only slightly above average. From a marketing perspective, its fugly packaging and its perhaps dubious claims about the gang of crowned heads who have been its ecstatic customers. That's a very general overview; see the particular fragrances for assessments.

    Obviously, that represents a particular aesthetic that not everyone will share - nor is everyone meant to.
    So it's more about their self-aggrandizement and marketing than about the actual fragrances?

    I guess I can find the title on line in a few seconds ... but what's the title of the guide?
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR View Post
    So it's more about their self-aggrandizement and marketing than about the actual fragrances?

    I guess I can find the title on line in a few seconds ... but what's the title of the guide?
    http://www.perfumestheguide.com/
    Currently wearing: Sycomore (new) by Chanel

  16. #16

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Thanks - looks like the first sample review already has a mistake in it!
    http://www.perfumestheguide.com/samplereviews.html

    He lists the 4 offshoots of Feminite du Bois, which are basically slight variations on the same fragrance as Bois et Fruits, Bois et Musc, Bois de Violette and Bois de Vanille - the last one is totally wrong, the Vanilla variant of the Eaux Boisees is actually Bois Oriental. Bois de Vanille is a whole other monster - a rather unpleasant one in my view, especially compared to the masterful Bois Oriental!
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by samplermike View Post
    People in perceived high places like to bring others down to their level. It doesn't mean diddly squat. You can't argue with success.
    Of course you can argue with success. I can give you a million examples, starting with American Idol. Are you really going to argue that all things popular or successful should be adored by critics?

    Maybe he doesn't like Creed fragrances because they don't appeal to his nose.

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR View Post
    Thanks - looks like the first sample review already has a mistake in it!
    http://www.perfumestheguide.com/samplereviews.html

    He lists the 4 offshoots of Feminite du Bois, which are basically slight variations on the same fragrance as Bois et Fruits, Bois et Musc, Bois de Violette and Bois de Vanille - the last one is totally wrong, the Vanilla variant of the Eaux Boisees is actually Bois Oriental. Bois de Vanille is a whole other monster - a rather unpleasant one in my view, especially compared to the masterful Bois Oriental!
    Thank you. That mistake was pointed out by a copy editor and is corrected in the book
    Last edited by luca turin; 11th April 2008 at 07:52 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    is it really Luca Turin?
    If it is, why do you hate Creed Fragrances?
    Last edited by irish; 11th April 2008 at 07:59 PM. Reason: typo

  20. #20

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by irish View Post
    is it really Luca Turin?
    If it is, why do you hate Creed Fragrances?
    Have you read the book ?

  21. #21

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Ok, maybe there is a possibility of you being Luca Turin, the author of the book. If that is the case I am sorry for attributing you that opinion.
    As you have read, we are wondering if it could be true that you loathe all things Creed. Is it true? If so, why is that?
    I am sure we all are interested on reading your opinions about what has been said here.

    About me reading the book. As a matter of fact I did not know it was being released yesterday, but I already ordered mine.

  22. #22

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    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Only to be fair to Luca: He gave Green Irish Tweed a really positive review in his earlier version of le guide.
    Last edited by Thomas Martin; 11th April 2008 at 08:26 PM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    The man is in the business of selling books, although he does have a reputation to maintain. There are probably 2 related elements at play.

    1. Contrarianism, especially on the topic of popular things of the day, makes good copy.
    2. Sensationalism sells. Rather than grading a scent 4 out of 10, its more interesting if he grades it a 2 out of 10
    Last edited by studdg; 11th April 2008 at 08:35 PM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by samplermike View Post
    People in perceived high places like to bring others down to their level. It doesn't mean diddly squat. You can't argue with success.
    Yes, true. Though I believe the success of Creed is multi-dimentional (Their frags appeal, they have a long history, and are a little bit exclusive which never hurts!).

    I am not sure I would ascribe much to Luca Turin, other than he doesn't like the stuff. My nose tells me I like some Creeds but not others - which is enough for me! Turin's guide is entertaining, but won't turn me off of a thing.

    (A bit like Parker's reviews of wine ... brutal at times ... but at least honestly his opinion)
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  25. #25

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    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by wrfritsche View Post
    I just got Luca Turin's new book. I'm in agreement with him more often than not, and even when we differ I appreciate his perspective, but the one exception to that is his apparent loathing of all things Creed. Does anyone have any history or background information about this? It's one thing to trash a fragrance or two from each house, but to trash an entire house? Even Bond No. 9 gets more even-handed treatment. It's surprising, disappointing, and therefore suspicious in an otherwise wonderful reference.

    You'll find I trash Creed also. Turin's just got a great nose for mediocrity and calls it like he see's it.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Two hot topics as of late; Creed and Turin. Well, I don't know that what Mr. Turin has to say about Creed will put a dent in the company's success and would not change my view on Creed. However, as many have said, I try to respect the book release as a testament of his passion and cheers to that becuase I support people in pursuing their interests. I just don't feel the type of information contained therein is worthy of compensation.
    Last edited by Scentologist; 11th April 2008 at 08:51 PM.

  27. #27

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    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by samplermike View Post
    People in perceived high places like to bring others down to their level. It doesn't mean diddly squat. You can't argue with success.

    I can argue with success. Success has nothing to do with quality. It has to do with good marketing. The Volkswagon is an extremely succesfull selling car, but you can't compare it with BMW, Mercedes, Volvo and others. There is a class distinction between them that can't be disputed.

    Another example is comparing a SubWay sandwich to a Quizno's. Both sandwich shops are successful, but it doesn't mean for a second that they're great sanwiches. Simply grub in my opinion. Sometimes grub is all I wish to eat, but it's still grub. They're both fast food sandwiches and cannot be compared to a gourmet sandwich served at Bellagio's. Creed is simply a Volkswagon, Fast Food quality fragrances and can not be compared to the greats. Sometimes maybe a Creed is what I feel like wearing, but that doesn't change its pedigree, for which Creed has none.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Creed's creed creedly creedence to Creed. Creed creeded, "CREED! Creeding with creeds creed."

    Creed: Creed the creeding creeders!

    But seriously, it may be a favorite here on Basenotes but every other thread is about Creed. It's an overwhelming presence and sometimes the threads about Creed read like my satire above. It begins to all sound all the same!

  29. #29

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSlarty View Post
    But seriously, it may be a favorite here on Basenotes but every other thread is about Creed.
    Too bad this isn`t one of MY favourite things. From the day one I started my fragrance-nut career, Creed has been probably the least intriguing niche house to me. Still, I have crabbed along the time some Creed samples, and the effect has been negative.

    I don`t really hate Creed, that would be too much, but at the same time I am 100% sure that I will never ever own Creed fragrance.
    There is simply SO much, so much more compelling & interesting stuff available.

    To me Creed fragrance is not the kind of "money well spent stuff" that I`m always looking for.
    Last edited by PigeonMurderer; 11th April 2008 at 09:30 PM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Luca Turin and Creed

    I like GIT, but the other Creeds I have sampled are nice enough, sure, but worth the hype and price? I dunno.

    I've already ordered so many books this month, but Turin's guide may be a must-read. Who needs groceries?

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