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  1. #1

    narcus's Avatar
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    Default Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Although directly alarmed by information contained in the most recent review of Tabac Blond in Perfumes:The Guide, my subject is not the book. I only have questions concerning the present status of Tabac Blond extrait.

    TB crossed my path twice in 2006 and early in 2007. I love this perfume tremendously. It holds holy grail qualities for me, but I honestly have little practical use for this kind of fragrance. At least that's what I thought until I read the review. The question is dramatically different when you are faced with the news that another gem may be gone forever. I am talking of the version that was sold between perhaps 2004 and 06 (?). <<And then sometime in the last few years, Fraysse instituted a smoking ban in Tabac Blond. The top note might seem deceptively right, smelling like a top-shelf whiskey, but once that’s gone, you’re left with a powdery, ambery rose related to the iteration of Arp&#232;ge that Fraysse the younger worked on, but not as good. At least it’s not like the version we smelled in Harrods a few months ago: a cheap green chypre like Eau du Soir. I’m not sure what’s going on with these variations.>> TS. I believe it’s this newest version that got a memorable one star only. And since this may be less than a year old, I may have a chance to still find the prior version somewhere in Europe.

    It was in 2005, I believe, when Luca Turin praised Tabac Blond in NZZ Folio (last but one, or last but two revision, I suppose). The matter was touched upon in textblogweb also, and there was no comment concerning changed qualities of any perfume from that house. I have checked BN archives as far back as I could, hoping to find anything on different versions there. But from all the comments found I gained the impression that Caron’s had been considered as safe and immune! I would therefore appreciate to hear from anyone who may have more information about recent changes. It would also help to know whether the ‘Urn’ bottles carry dates.

    Last edited by narcus; 12th May 2008 at 03:06 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    S&#233;cr&#233;tions Magnifiques
    by Etat Libre d'Orange (2006) got 5 stars from the Perfume Guide based on a molecule LT was crazy about.

    Fraysse instituted a smoking ban in Tabac Blond - if this is true, it's insane!

    Tabac Blond is not by any stretch anything other than a luxury product with luxury prices. I don't know if you speak French or they speak Swiss but a phone call to customer service with all these questions seems in order. I will call the boutique in NYC that has urns and ask myself and get back with more info. Hopefully Caron has swept the new one away and are covering their tracks after this 1 star.
    Last edited by fredricktoo; 22nd April 2008 at 08:41 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    The urns are filled from other bottles as they start to get empty. It would be impossible to put a date on the Perfume Fountains.

    Perhaps a call to Roja Dove might assist. He has sold TB for quite a while now, so he should be in the know.
    Fine fragrance is alive; it breathes, unfolds and unravels with each passing hour....

    Roja Dove

  4. #4
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    (?). <<And then sometime in the last few years, Fraysse instituted a smoking ban in Tabac Blond. The top note might seem deceptively right, smelling like a top-shelf whiskey, but once that’s gone, you’re left with a powdery, ambery rose related to the iteration of Arp&#232;ge that Fraysse the younger worked on, but not as good. At least it’s not like the version we smelled in Harrods a few months ago: a cheap green chypre like Eau du Soir. I’m not sure what’s going on with these variations.>> TS.
    That sounds nothing like the Tabac Blond EDT decant I have. If the new version smells like that, then 1 star it is.
    Last edited by zztopp; 23rd April 2008 at 12:31 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    My latest bottle of extrait I purchased from Diane at the New York boutique about a year ago. It has been tinkered with a little since my first bottle a few years back - but it isn't the same version reviewed by LT.

    I agree with the comment about the urns. They receive large bottles of the fragrance and then top off the urns from the new bottles. Similar to the way a port or sherry is made - different vintages are blended as they age so that they minimize the differences among the vintages.

    Teddius

  6. #6

    narcus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    updated Apr. 24: French bloggers seem to have heard the Turin-Sanchez message also, and the perfume blog 'Ambre Gris' has obviously attracted more people interested in the fate of CARON. Who knows more about Richard Fraysse, or the Ales Group?

    Thank you for your answers so far, and I apologize for using 'urn' to describe the current extrait (perfume) bottle! I simply erred. I hadn't checked the latest BN reviews yesterday. There is a new one from Pluran, dated April 5, 08. This is the first with critical remarks on TB quality: "Tabac Blond used to be one of the best things you could ever smell, but I recently tried the Caron urn extraits and they weren't even worth spending money on." Sounds like a confirmation of the bad news to me.
    It's very early in the morning here. I sent an e-mail to Paris. I doubt they'll admit to anything, but we shall see.

    changed 05 -12: According to other blogs, 'urn' is often used to describe the curent extrait (perfume) bottles. 'Fountain' seems to be the container that looks like a tea samowar and is used to dispense perfume refills. I hope, I got that right now.(?)
    Last edited by narcus; 12th May 2008 at 03:08 AM. Reason: Update - automerged with earlier post 4-24
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Some of the comments on that French blog are pretty interesting. One claims to have had a long chat with the manager of the Caron boutique in NYC recently, where she complained that the urn scents kept changing, and for the worse, and that her longtime clients were abandoning the brand. Which, as the commenter points out, moved from Madison Avenue to a room in a hair salon on Lexington Ave.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    They have the Urns at Bergdorf Goodman where I gave TB a test. I don't have a history with the vintage TB juice, but what I smelled in BG was comparable to the most recent version of Cabochard. In other words, the bones are there, but nothing really complex.

  9. #9
    Brielle87's Avatar
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    As someone on the blog said Tabac Blond was wonderful, now it smells "comme la pisse du chat" (cat's piss) as do most of the re orchestrated Caron's. I left my own snippet about what I think of M. Fraysse, which is not 'much' as a parfumeur. He is not a Daltroff, nor is he even in line with one who creates Bath and Body work scents. So sad to see one of my favorite houses dying a slow wasting death. I am so glad I purchased all of my scents from the years ago, and I do mean all. I even have the old 'Vœux de Noel' which has been discontinued for ages, talk about a classic fill the room type of scent.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser ŕ sa source

  10. #10

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Awwww!!! That's scary!!!
    Sounds like I have to save the last drops of TB I have in my sample I got in 2006 from the urns chez Caron in Paris as one of the most valuable treasures in my drobe. Too bad!!!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    As someone on the blog said Tabac Blond was wonderful, now it smells "comme la pisse du chat" (cat's piss) as do most of the re orchestrated Caron's.
    It's funny that you mention the cat piss thing. I just bought Montaigne and Lady Caron and I wasn't sure if it was me, but they seem a little flat.
    By the way, what is the cat piss note? Civetone, black current bud?
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 24th April 2008 at 08:41 PM.

  12. #12
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    The last time I smelled Tabac Blond extrait (Feb 08) it started out with similar coppery overtones, but the whole thing was attenutated, listless, with a soft creamy rose, a mild carnation (which used to give it a lot of fire), and a quicker drydown that was sweeter and less animalic: the castoreum was toned down considerably. The drydown of my old juice is 5 hours away, and while it's a little sweeter than I like, it's always tolerable. The new stuff is far from angular and edgy like its predecessor. My juice is spicy, but I can't comment on Tania's Cinnabon reference because I don't know when that change occurred. The spices in my juice are blended so well I never thought about it anyway.

    The vintage juice (pre-?) is mystical and powerful, moving around interiors creating its own feng shui. It's a magical potion of the kind that generally hasn't been made since the world got a nervous system.
    Last edited by pluran; 25th April 2008 at 08:12 PM.

  13. #13
    Brielle87's Avatar
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    It's funny that you mention the cat piss thing. I just bought Montaigne and Lady Caron and I wasn't sure if it was me, but they seem a little flat.
    By the way, what is the cat piss note? Civetone, black current bud?
    It is supposed to be black current bud.
    But on the french blog, it was meant in the derogative way. The new TB is just so much different than the old. It is such a shame.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser ŕ sa source

  14. #14

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Very sad indeed! Tabac Blond Extrait sure is in my Top Ten. About two years ago I almost bought 50ml in Zurich, but ended up with a 5ml decant and I'm happy I got me 5ml at least. This stuff is so gorgeous and potent, it will last me a lifetime, even if it's just 5ml. The most expensive juice I own at the moment.
    decant sales:
    Crystal Flacon

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Well I will give my up-to-the-moment take on Tabac Blond. I just received a sample of the TB that is sold now, and it is not the Tabac Blond from years ago. This is not even a distant relative of the original, it is a stranger parading as the original. It is as if someone purchased one of those 'Lego' models of the Eiffel Tower, assembled it, then tried to tell everyone it was the real Eiffel Tower. I am heartbroken, they have truly torn the soul out from this great fragrance.
    I am going to start a thread also, on the horror that is now Bellodgia, which I just opened a new one and wore today.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser ŕ sa source

  16. #16

    narcus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    While still in shock and waiting for a reply from Paris (now overdue) I searched the web for latest news on the matter. I also wonder, of course, when exactly the latest version was put on shelves. I heard from one person that the bottle of the extrait (bought in Brussels last summer) smells exactly like the one she had before. I have come across statements on blogs like POL recently which would confirm that there haven't been dramatic changes as originally described by TS.

    Here's some of what Helg reported on Perfume Shrine - Who is questioning the Guide? :
    <<...."They don't go into many details {about reformulations}. They just say that everything has been given a "soapy rose drydown" and is now thin and wan.
    Both assertions are untrue.
    And last week I tested four new Carons on my skin and let them dry down for hours. Not a trace of "soapy rose"!
    Yep, and they claim that it's happened very recently (within the last year). Well, last week I went to the boutique in New York myself and compared the current perfumes with some older (1-3 years old) samples and decants that I have.
    There was no difference. They haven't been "ruined" at all. It's a lie".
    ~posted by MizLiz211 (an avid Caron collector) on 4/15/2008 12:02PM on MUA >>

    I am utterly confused now, but maybe there is hope, and maybe there are some older bottles of TB still in one store or the other. Isn't there a new concentration below the extrait? We do not know if only that or both are now of minor quality. With a very few exceptions different concentrations are not discussed in the Guide. Of course, Tania Sanchez contributed to some confusion by saying: "...the version we smelled in Harrods a few months ago: a cheap green chypre like Eau du Soir. I'm not sure what's going on with these variations." ---- Out of all fragrances, why sample Tabac Blond in a department store? Did Caron not send them any bottles? I would also think that Luca Turin has enough connections and authority to obtain more information than is contained in Caron's customer booklet. What did they actually do to clarify matters ? I hope the authors are willing to clear the fog soon. Caron's dramatic fall seems to be a real issue for many people who read The Guide by now.
    Last edited by narcus; 12th May 2008 at 03:21 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  17. #17
    david's Avatar
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Hi Eberhart,
    Today I was in the Caron boutique in Ka De We and the sales girl read me a very interesting statement from the Caron literature / catologue which read that the original Tabac Blond created in 1919 has been reinterpreted. The amazing thing was the date mentioned............. not 2006, 2007, 2008, but 1988 !!!!!

  18. #18

    narcus's Avatar
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    Default

    update May 23:
    After three weeks waiting for a reply from Paris, and/or the only Swiss Caron shop, concerning those mysterious modifications of Tabac Blond I finally went to the shop. Although the person I had talked to before wasn't there, they obtained the information I had asked for from the back office: Yes, there had been modifictaions, and Caron Paris was aware that customers were not all too happy about them. I was told that Caron firmly intends to do something about it, and that one might expect a new release of Tabac Blond in the near future. This wasn't all that concrete, but I still take it as a positive sign.

    While there, I asked to try TB from their present tester (boxes carry a code, but according to them no intelligible date). They didn't have the extrait at all, but they sprayed the EDT on my wrist, and I got a tissue to take along. 'A cheap green chypre like Eau du Soir' , as per Miss Sanchez review ? Not at all ! (As a by-the-way, I never thought EdS smelled cheap either.) At least the start seemed perfectly alright. It reminded me immediately of Knize Ten - here layered with CdG Garofano (not whiskey). It seems to have an appropriate amount of fine carnation, as before. An hour and a half passed between that and arriving back home, and in this period no further development was noticeable. The fragrance had almost died on my skin, and that really was the main disappointement! On paper, however, it's still quite nice and strong today, reminding now of Cuir Étalon, neither powder nor amber were noticed. Of course, all I remember from Tabac Blond in 2006 was based on the extrait, not the EDT. Maybe we shall never learn what Miss Sanchez had sampled either (at last in 2007). Consider it an interim update only. I think I'll go to France for the extrait one day soon...
    Last edited by narcus; 24th May 2008 at 01:50 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    I remember trying Tabac Blond EDP, last year, and found it to be very thin and fleeting. As a result, I ended up bailing out of the last Basenoters' bottle split of the extrait version. I'm now glad I did...

  20. #20

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    I purchased some of the parfum recently, and I can also confirm, this is not the formulation I tried 2-3 years ago through a split arranged by Azsmells. The topnotes has the shell of what Tabac Blond smelt like, but gets bare and dull through the middle and eventually the drydown. Sanchez is spot on with her review so I don't have much to add, and it does drydown to a green chypre. It actually reminded me of a combination of Moss Breches (another green chypre) with Knize Ten. It has lost its depth and richness, but unlike Sanchez I still think it's a nice scent. I'm still testing the new stuff and trying to determine if there's a dramatic change with the scent.

    The other noticeably change was the color of the scent. It went from a light amber color to almost clear.

    Color of the juice now.



    What the color was before, from the decant I owned. A light amber color like the bottle in the middle of the picture.
    Last edited by nsamadi; 19th June 2008 at 01:36 AM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    The color of the first picture looks a bit weird, I bought some Tabac Blond parfum in Lyon last year, at that time the color was still amber.

  22. #22
    Dependent
    Astaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nsamadi View Post
    The other noticeably change was the color of the scent. It went from a light amber color to almost clear.
    Since the liquid is partially transparent, the path length of the container in the direction of sight counts for a lot. The newer sample is in a more narrow container than the decant, so the relative strength of the colors cannot be reliably compared. Also, a substantial number of chemicals responsible for the scent do not absorb at all in the visible band of the spectrum, and would not contribute to the color. Darker color can also indicate that light has caused polymerization of molecules in the vessel, so the original color may have actually been lighter before time took a toll.

    However, if most people agree that the scent is weaker, that is probably the best indicator of all.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    ^^^ I had a decant of the TB freshly bought 2-3 years back and it was a rich amber. The new stuff not only smells dramatically different, but is almost clear. Thanks for your input, but I don't really think it's any color tricks with lights, etc....IMO.

  24. #24

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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    I dunno, but Gaia, the Non-Blonde posted that the one that was at the Caron boutique when she went this summer was not at all what it was before and I tend to believe her since A) she has nothing to gain by posting otherwise and B) I personally know her to be scrupulously honest.

    This would kill me if Lutens didn't have Cuir Mauresque out there, which I always thought was thisclose to Tabac Blonde. So that desecration, while horrifying doesn't kill me.

    Alpona kills me. Farnesiana kills me.

    Oh who am I kidding, Tabac Blond kills me too. I shall horde my almost empty decant and mentally stick pins into dolls resembling little French executives..

  25. #25

    Wink Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    Here's some of what Helg reported on Perfume Shrine - Who is questioning the Guide? :
    <<...."They don't go into many details {about reformulations}. They just say that everything has been given a "soapy rose drydown" and is now thin and wan.
    Both assertions are untrue.
    And last week I tested four new Carons on my skin and let them dry down for hours. Not a trace of "soapy rose"!
    Yep, and they claim that it's happened very recently (within the last year). Well, last week I went to the boutique in New York myself and compared the current perfumes with some older (1-3 years old) samples and decants that I have.
    There was no difference. They haven't been "ruined" at all. It's a lie".
    ~posted by MizLiz211 (an avid Caron collector) on 4/15/2008 12:02PM on MUA >>

    Tania Sanchez contributed to some confusion by saying: "...the version we smelled in Harrods a few months ago: a cheap green chypre like Eau du Soir. I'm not sure what's going on with these variations." ---- Out of all fragrances, why sample Tabac Blond in a department store? Did Caron not send them any bottles? .
    The Caron collector whom I quoted seems to be convinced that not all Carons are "ruined".
    My personal opinion is that tt's *very* hard to tell because most of us have not had a detailed archived "cellar" of Carons labeled by date of purchase and we all shop from roughly the same sources for our vintages/samples etc. This goes for almost all seriously old perfumes though ;-)

    What your question however points to:
    you answered yourself ~they didn't get Caron bottles.

    In one of the Le Labo entries in the beginning of the book they stated it was "one of only two" brands who didn't send them samples. The Le Labos were panned relentlessly. I don't know if it has any connection with the above fact, merely stating it. I find the brand very "poseur" myself, so perhaps I am biased.
    Now, if Caron also didn't send them anything and they had to brave through the tourists at Harrods to smell them (and it doesn't stand to sense that Caron would excludeTabac Blond only, one of their most stellar perfumes, now, would it?) perhaps they were annoyed enough not to be lenient with them? Again merely wondering, not implying that it had anything to do with it. I would hazard the guess that Harrods has good stock, kept in good conditions, monitored by someone who knows (Roja).
    But after all, if they tested them on spot, just how accurate an impression can one make? How many times have we been erroneous in our conclusions when testing at a store? We can give them the benefit of a doubt.


    I do know that for the longest time I was wondering why Narcisse Noir didn't meet my criteria (it has all the things I love) in one decant, while it did in another and then it dawned: I have tested different batches.
    And for the record, natural essences (of which flowers are some of the most prized) do vary from batch to batch.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    I am not ordering decants / samples from theperfumedcourt, and they offer the choice between tabac blond edt and the pure parfum.

    Which one should i take , and is there a big difference ? The price is almost the double for the pure parfum.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roc_Xel View Post
    I am not ordering decants / samples from theperfumedcourt, and they offer the choice between tabac blond edt and the pure parfum.

    Which one should i take , and is there a big difference ? The price is almost the double for the pure parfum.
    The extrait is definitely worth the price tag. I own both and find the EdT quite weak. It whispers, is shy and gone all too soon. As far as I know there is no EdP, at least I have never seen such a version. Once I saw a Tabac Blond Cologne and bath oil on eBay, but that was years ago. The extrait is a prodigy. My 5ml decant will last me a lifetime for sure. When I reach for it, I know that one or two drops will do the magic trick (5ml has a lot of drops btw.) The color is quite ambery like that middle bottle in that picture.

    More is overpowering IMHO. I was lucky and I am very satisfied with the juice I got. The price doesn't relate, because it's so precious and gorgeous, it can't be compared to a fleeting Eau de Toilette or whatever.
    I'm smitten to say the least. It's longlasting, ultra-ultra deep, very complex and it mysteriously wafts around - it can't even be compared to sillage somehow, that is Tabac Blond Extrait de Parfum to me.
    decant sales:
    Crystal Flacon

  28. #28

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    On perfumed court they call it "pure parfum" which is twice as expensive - but not THAT expensive - as the edt. (12 us for 1.5 spray sample).

    I guess it s the same as extrait de parfum. Will take this one then, bye bye the edt, thanks for your help dr.

    Edit : In my previous post (2 above) i meant to say i am now ordering instead of i am not ordering ^^
    Last edited by Roc_Xel; 20th August 2008 at 08:15 PM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roc_Xel View Post
    On perfumed court they call it "pure parfum" which is twice as expensive - but not THAT expensive - as the edt. (12 us for 1.5 spray sample).

    I guess it s the same as extrait de parfum. Will take this one then, bye bye the edt, thanks for your help dr.

    Edit : In my previous post (2 above) i meant to say i am now ordering instead of i am not ordering ^^
    It is the same:

    pure perfume means the extrait.

    .... and always buy, instead of not buy ....
    decant sales:
    Crystal Flacon

  30. #30

    narcus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Caron Tabac Blond - Only Ashes Left ?

    Quote Originally Posted by helg View Post
    The Caron collector whom I quoted seems to be convinced that not all Carons are "ruined".
    My personal opinion is that tt's *very* hard to tell because most of us have not had a detailed archived "cellar" of Carons labeled by date of purchase and we all shop from roughly the same sources for our vintages/samples etc. This goes for almost all seriously old perfumes though ;-)

    What your question however points to:
    you answered yourself ~they didn't get Caron bottles.

    In one of the Le Labo entries in the beginning of the book they stated it was "one of only two" brands who didn't send them samples. The Le Labos were panned relentlessly. I don't know if it has any connection with the above fact, merely stating it. I find the brand very "poseur" myself, so perhaps I am biased.
    Now, if Caron also didn't send them anything and they had to brave through the tourists at Harrods to smell them (and it doesn't stand to sense that Caron would excludeTabac Blond only, one of their most stellar perfumes, now, would it?) perhaps they were annoyed enough not to be lenient with them? Again merely wondering, not implying that it had anything to do with it. I would hazard the guess that Harrods has good stock, kept in good conditions, monitored by someone who knows (Roja).
    But after all, if they tested them on spot, just how accurate an impression can one make? How many times have we been erroneous in our conclusions when testing at a store? We can give them the benefit of a doubt.

    I do know that for the longest time I was wondering why Narcisse Noir didn't meet my criteria (it has all the things I love) in one decant, while it did in another and then it dawned: I have tested different batches.
    And for the record, natural essences (of which flowers are some of the most prized) do vary from batch to batch.
    Thank you, Helg, for your detailed comments and informeation! If it's only two companies that didn't submit samples for testing to Turin-Sanchez, Montale must be the second. I think it was Turin who explained why no Montale perfumes have been reviewed, saying that Montale refused to send them samples. (I couldn't find the source quickly now, maybe it was on another website).
    Last edited by narcus; 25th August 2008 at 12:17 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

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